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State Bill Proposes Christianity be Missouri’s Official Religion
KMOV 4 ^ | 3/3/2006 | John Mills

Posted on 03/03/2006 10:59:51 PM PST by Dallas59

Missouri legislators in Jefferson City considered a bill that would name Christianity the state's official "majority" religion.

House Concurrent Resolution 13 has is pending in the state legislature.

Many Missouri residents had not heard about the bill until Thursday.

Karen Aroesty of the Anti-defamation league, along with other watch-groups, began a letter writing and email campaign to stop the resolution.

The resolution would recognize "a Christian god," and it would not protect minority religions, but "protect the majority's right to express their religious beliefs.

The resolution also recognizes that, "a greater power exists," and only Christianity receives what the resolution calls, "justified recognition."

State representative David Sater of Cassville in southwestern Missouri, sponsored the resolution, but he has refused to talk about it on camera or over the phone.

KMOV also contacted Gov. Matt Blunt's office to see where he stands on the resolution, but he has yet to respond.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; US: Missouri
KEYWORDS: christianity; state
I don't think they can do that.
1 posted on 03/03/2006 10:59:55 PM PST by Dallas59
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To: Dallas59

Oh-oh. Now you've gone and done it.


2 posted on 03/03/2006 11:02:31 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: Dallas59

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a resolution isn't a law so perhaps they can do it?


3 posted on 03/03/2006 11:08:20 PM PST by ECM
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To: Dallas59

They might want to tack on a never-to-be-paid-back-bond measure to cover the inevitable court costs that would allow those who actually want to fund a doomed statement of conscious to do so without forcing the entire population to shoulder the burden.


4 posted on 03/03/2006 11:09:47 PM PST by ndt
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To: Dallas59
IF this story is accurate (a big 'IF'), the people who are pushing this bill will set back their own cause by playing right into the hands of the liberal Kool-Aid drinkers.

Of course, if this is just a (meaningless) resolution, its just stupid. If its a bona fide attempt at legislation, it will be deader than a doornail as it hits the first courthouse steps...

5 posted on 03/03/2006 11:09:52 PM PST by Al Simmons ("Only those are fit to live who do not fear to die" - Theodore Roosevelt)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: Dallas59

Somehow, I think the MO legislature has better things to with their time. A bunch of libs will now shout "see, we told you! Crazy, right wing religious extremists want to take over the country...blah blah blah..." (interestingly, they refer to Christianity in these rants and not the much more obvious threat) Regardless, this bill\resolution is not helpful.


7 posted on 03/03/2006 11:16:56 PM PST by MrBlueSky2005
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To: Dallas59

I would prefer to wait until after we have the 2008 president and a 60 house majority before we start doing the things I want to do.


8 posted on 03/03/2006 11:19:19 PM PST by ansel12
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To: Dallas59

We have state birds and fish, why not a state majority religion? It will drive many bats with worry but I don't see how it explicitly violates the Constitution. The establishment clause does not prohibit the stating of fact it only prohibits the state establishment of a religion presumably one to which people are coerced into joining through the law. One could say this is a slippery slope but it is a stretch and though it may be political gasoline I still love the effort. It is such a delightful picture to imagine the heads of leftists shooting right off worrying about this while otherwise calmly applying moral relativism in defense of terrorist cartoon hating mullahs everywhere.


9 posted on 03/03/2006 11:22:20 PM PST by Ma3lst0rm (Perspective is everything.)
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To: ECM
"resolution isn't a law so perhaps they can do it?"

You might have a point, I can think of some pretty dumb resolutions that have passed. Still, at best, this qualifies as one of the dumb ones.
10 posted on 03/03/2006 11:24:04 PM PST by ndt
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To: Dallas59

No good can come of this.


11 posted on 03/03/2006 11:28:51 PM PST by rogue yam
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To: Ma3lst0rm
Article I Section 7 of the Missouri Bill of Rights states:

That no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect or denomination of religion, or in aid of any priest, preacher, minister or teacher thereof, as such; and that no preference shall be given to nor any discrimination made against any church, sect or creed of religion, or any form of religious faith or worship.

12 posted on 03/03/2006 11:30:22 PM PST by M203M4
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To: Javelina
What is the point of this resolution? What a waste of time.

I would venture a guess that it's a trial balloon to see if there is the political will to initiate a challenge to the extra-constitutional "Wall of Separation" doctrine.

The ability of states to establish a religion has long been used as a theoretical example of the federal/state division of the "Federalist" system.

13 posted on 03/03/2006 11:31:21 PM PST by papertyger
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To: M203M4

From http://www.harbornet.com/rights/missouri.txt


14 posted on 03/03/2006 11:33:13 PM PST by M203M4
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To: MrBlueSky2005
Trust me, m'friend, the General Dissembly (the technical term in our state for the Legislature is the 'General Assembly') has floated far more stupid ideas than this in past, sometimes as laws as opposed to non-legally-binding ''resolutions''.

Granted, they are creative idiots, have been for decades, but I wonder what would happen if they became sufficiently creative as to define, at law, that a religion is a philosophy or belief that expresses the advocacy for the existence of a higher power but does not call for, in any manner, the harming or slaying of those who do not adhere to said philosophy.

You realise, of course, that 'religion' has never -- in the US -- been defined at law.

Now (said he, just postulating), if Islam should be legally undefined as a 'religion' (no comment here, although I could make a very pithy one), why then the CAIR crowd and their ilk would have to play on the same field as do Christians, Jews, and Orthodox, this very day, in Saudi Arabia.

Very interesting notion, wouldn't you say?

15 posted on 03/03/2006 11:34:42 PM PST by SAJ
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To: papertyger
"The ability of states to establish a religion has long been used as a theoretical example of the federal/state division of the "Federalist" system."

Theoretical? I believe that balloon was floated in Utah in the late 1800's. As I recall it popped.
16 posted on 03/03/2006 11:35:41 PM PST by ndt
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To: M203M4
You're presuming that the assorted idiots in the General Dissembly have ever bothered to read the state's Constitution??

Whatcha smokin', Jack?

17 posted on 03/03/2006 11:36:27 PM PST by SAJ
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To: Dallas59

I imagine they could do just about anything by majority vote. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be struck down by the ACLU within ten minutes of having taken place. Yeah, I know, the ACLU can't do anything, but you know what I mean.

When we allowed a multitude of Moslems into the nation, we opened a can of worms that will be with us from now until dooms day. Those folks want majority rights on a minority status.

While that's not necessarily a bad thing, their version is anything but a good thing IMO. Christianity is going to pay a very heavy price for what the secularists have facilitated.


18 posted on 03/03/2006 11:40:40 PM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: M203M4

" That no money shall ever be taken from the public treasury, directly or indirectly, in aid of any church, sect or denomination of religion, or in aid of any priest, preacher, minister or teacher thereof, as such; and that no preference shall be given to nor any discrimination made against any church, sect or creed of religion, or any form of religious faith or worship. "

I still think that as long as the legistlature limits themselves to stating a fact that "the majority of people in the state of Missouri are Christians" they are not in violation of the above section. It may be in bad taste but no more so than having a black studies class but it still tastes good in so many other ways.


19 posted on 03/03/2006 11:40:42 PM PST by Ma3lst0rm (Sometimes you just have to sit back and enjoy the show.)
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To: DoughtyOne
"Christianity is going to pay a very heavy price for what the secularists have facilitated."

How the heck is Mohammad's delusions of grandeur my fault?
20 posted on 03/03/2006 11:47:58 PM PST by ndt
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To: ndt
Theoretical? I believe that balloon was floated in Utah in the late 1800's. As I recall it popped.

I hadn't heard of this Utah case. I'd heard the "established religion" rationale described as recently as a year ago, though I can't for the life of me remember what the context was.

I'll have to do some research...if I get interested enough ;o)

21 posted on 03/03/2006 11:48:16 PM PST by papertyger
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To: papertyger
"I hadn't heard of this Utah case."

Not so much a single case as the entire founding of the state.
22 posted on 03/03/2006 11:51:55 PM PST by ndt
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To: Dallas59
No they can't. No government can establish a state church. Not in America.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

23 posted on 03/03/2006 11:52:56 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: ndt

It's not. The problem is, the Moslems will be pushing the courts to support their views non-stop. What this will mean, is that something we have taken for granted for hundreds of years, will now be challenged on legal terms 'all the time'. That's going to suck big time.


24 posted on 03/04/2006 12:02:58 AM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: Dallas59
Putting aside the sheer ignorance of introducing such a bill in the first place ... it does produce an interesting legal question. When the U.S. Supreme Court declares a state law unconstitutional, that state's legislature doesn't have to go back and ram through a resolution to delete it from the state code; it just sits on the books unused and ignored, most of the time. So what would happen in this case? The law/resolution, whatever it is, wouldn't actually mean anything whether it was considered "in force" or not, so having the Supreme Court rule on it wouldn't change anything.

Something tells me this legislator's just trying to make a capital-P Point.

25 posted on 03/04/2006 12:03:15 AM PST by Dont Mention the War (This tagline is false.)
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To: DoughtyOne
"It's not. The problem is, the Moslems will be pushing the courts to support their views non-stop."

All the more reason not to set a precedent for an official religion. Sharia anyone?

While I'm sure us secularist can be a pain in your backside from time to time, when if comes to defending the Constitution against an encroaching fascist theocracy, most of us will have your back to the end.
26 posted on 03/04/2006 12:25:59 AM PST by ndt
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To: ndt
I believe that even you secularists are going to get sick of what is going to take place, IMO.

Look, I think it's a poor idea to have a state attempt to place one religion in a preferenced status. I believe each religion should be observed in a personal manner within the religious community of a person's choice. It shouldn't be forced on others.

I don't have a problem with Christmas displays in public. I do think it's reasoned to allow folks to set up their displays without public funding.

As long as people are considerate of others and don't make a nuisance of themselves, everything should run smoothly.
27 posted on 03/04/2006 12:35:25 AM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: Dont Mention the War; DoughtyOne
"this legislator's just trying to make a capital-P Point."

That is exactly what it is. IMO a totally wrong headed and un American point, but I doubt he has any faith that this will amount to anything tangible.

But to flip this around and imagine DoughtyOne's worst case scenario. Would anyone here really be comfortable with an Islamic enclave declaring Islam the "official religion" of a U.S. city? That is entirely possible with a precedent like this.
28 posted on 03/04/2006 12:36:25 AM PST by ndt
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To: DoughtyOne
"I don't have a problem with Christmas displays in public."

Hey, I still set up my Christmas tree. Where else you going to put the presents?
29 posted on 03/04/2006 12:38:11 AM PST by ndt
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To: ndt

Well, it does occur to me that when call to prayers is played over a loudspeaker across the landscape, that you're getting pretty darned close to it. There was a town last year where this was taking place. I'd have to move if that happened near where I live. There's no way in hell I'm going to have the Moslem religion shoved in my face 24/7/365.


30 posted on 03/04/2006 12:41:22 AM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: ndt

But you're not doing that in the village square. You're doing it in the home. Now be good... LOL


31 posted on 03/04/2006 12:43:46 AM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: DoughtyOne
"Well, it does occur to me that when call to prayers is played over a loudspeaker across the landscape, that you're getting pretty darned close to it."

I see what you're saying. As long as it was coming from the mosque and not city hall then my "need for separation" is OK with this. This HAS to violate some sort of city noise ordnance though, so personally I would not let them off the hook strictly for religious reasons. If they want, they can set up some sort of cellphone-call-to-prayer but I find those things annoying too.
32 posted on 03/04/2006 12:48:45 AM PST by ndt
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To: DoughtyOne
"But you're not doing that in the village square."

My idea of separation is a bit different than I think you might be leery of (or maybe not). I don't want to see anything like an endorsement of one over another, but if the city wants to make the local park available to all religions (and I do mean ALL) to set up displays on particular holidays, I have no problem with that.
33 posted on 03/04/2006 12:51:50 AM PST by ndt
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To: ndt

We're in agreement on this.


34 posted on 03/04/2006 12:54:23 AM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: ndt

You may be right about our differing views, but from my perspective it doesn't sound like we're differing on this post at all.


35 posted on 03/04/2006 12:55:35 AM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: Dallas59

Here's the Resolution:

Whereas, our forefathers of this great nation of the United States recognized a Christian God and used the principles afforded to us by Him as the founding principles of our nation; and



Whereas, as citizens of this great nation, we the majority also wish to exercise our constitutional right to acknowledge our Creator and give thanks for the many gifts provided by Him; and



Whereas, as elected officials we should protect the majority's right to express their religious beliefs while showing respect for those who object; and



Whereas, we wish to continue the wisdom imparted in the Constitution of the United States of America by the founding fathers; and



Whereas, we as elected officials recognize that a Greater Power exists above and beyond the institutions of mankind:



Now, therefore, be it resolved by the members of the House of Representatives of the Ninety-third General Assembly, Second Regular Session, the Senate concurring therein, that we stand with the majority of our constituents and exercise the common sense that voluntary prayer in public schools and religious displays on public property are not a coalition of church and state, but rather the justified recognition of the positive role that Christianity has played in this great nation of ours, the United States of America.


36 posted on 03/04/2006 1:52:47 AM PST by Keyes2000mt (http://adamsweb.us/blog Adam's Blog)
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To: rogue yam
No good can come of this.

Amen. The amount of money wasted on the follow up lawsuits to this is so not worth the gesture.

37 posted on 03/04/2006 2:51:26 AM PST by mancogasuki (Live Free Or Die.)
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To: DoughtyOne
I don't have a problem with Christmas displays in public. I do think it's reasoned to allow folks to set up their displays without public funding.

You touch on a great point for many of us.

While I'm not believer in organized religion by any stretch of the imagination, I have no problem with religious displays in public places. As long as my (our) tax dollars don't go to pay for it, bring 'em on.

I might not believe in the messenger, I do believe in the message.

38 posted on 03/04/2006 3:01:34 AM PST by mancogasuki (Live Free Or Die.)
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To: ndt

I think it was Hamtramck MI and I think they got a pass on the noise ordinance.


39 posted on 03/04/2006 3:02:20 AM PST by From many - one.
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To: Dallas59
We live in Missouri -- although they may have good intentions, IMO this is a very dangerous idea.

Carolyn

40 posted on 03/04/2006 3:06:55 AM PST by CDHart (The world has become a lunatic asylum and the lunatics are in charge.)
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To: Dallas59
So is this a bill or a resolution?

Carolyn

41 posted on 03/04/2006 3:10:24 AM PST by CDHart (The world has become a lunatic asylum and the lunatics are in charge.)
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To: Dallas59
I would feel better if we came up with a national resolution that said: "Islam is not a religion."
42 posted on 03/04/2006 3:19:25 AM PST by manwiththehands
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To: CDHart
I believe a proposal.
43 posted on 03/04/2006 6:00:38 AM PST by Dallas59 ((“You love life, while we love death"( Al-Qaeda & Democratic Party))
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To: Dallas59
I don't think they can do that.

Yes they can.

The federal constitution says "Congress can make no law"

The State legislatures are not 'Congress'.

---------

George Mason's Master Draft of the Bill of Rights

20. That Religion or the Duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by Reason and Conviction, not by Force or violence, and therefore all men have an equal, natural, and unalienable Right to the free Exercise of Religion according to the Dictates of Conscience, and that no particular religious Sect or Society of Christians ought to be favored or established by Law in preference to others.

This resolution merely reiterates the intent of the Founders.

44 posted on 03/04/2006 6:58:44 AM PST by MamaTexan (I am NOT a 'legal entity', nor am I a *person* as created by law.)
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To: mancogasuki

Thanks for the comments.


45 posted on 03/04/2006 9:56:50 AM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: mancogasuki
"I have no problem with religious displays in public places."

I would draw a distinction between a permanent display on government property of one religious point of view versus the idea of an "open forum".

The obvious one that pops to mind is the 10 Commandments on the courthouse lawn. Now if the courthouse lawn were subdivided into 50 regions and each was available for lease by different religions for their displays I would have less of a problem with it but that just sounds like a dumb idea.
46 posted on 03/04/2006 10:42:35 AM PST by ndt
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To: CDHart
"So is this a bill or a resolution?"

"Now, therefore, be it resolved by the members of the House of Representatives of the Ninety-third General Assembly . . ."

47 posted on 03/04/2006 1:34:51 PM PST by YHAOS
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To: ndt
I would draw a distinction between a permanent display on government property of one religious point of view versus the idea of an "open forum".

The obvious one that pops to mind is the 10 Commandments on the courthouse lawn. Now if the courthouse lawn were subdivided into 50 regions and each was available for lease by different religions for their displays I would have less of a problem with it but that just sounds like a dumb idea.

Good points & I agree. Just keep them off gov't property and we can avoid like 99.9% of all issues, stop wasting taxpayers money AND keep it out of the courts. ...where every good idea goes to die.

48 posted on 03/05/2006 11:45:26 AM PST by mancogasuki (Live Free Or Die.)
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