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Judge Says Disposed Fetus, Tissue Isn't a Person
AP ^ | March 3, 2006

Posted on 03/04/2006 4:01:42 PM PST by Tarkin

SANDUSKY (AP) -- A hospital whose employee stored about 90 fetuses or fetal tissue instead of disposing them didn't violate the law, said a county judge, citing the U.S. Supreme Court's Roe v. Wade abortion rights ruling. Erie County Judge Tygh Tone ruled against extending the definition of "person" to include fetal tissue based on Roe v. Wade, which set a precedent that legal rights of a "person" have "generally been contingent upon live birth."

The judge dismissed four claims in a lawsuit against Firelands Community Hospital, now known Firelands Regional Medical Center. Two women who had miscarriages or stillbirths at the hospital filed a class action lawsuit against the hospital in 1997, claiming the hospital committed fraud because the staff did not tell them how the fetal tissue would be disposed (...)

(Excerpt) Read more at wtol.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; courts; cultureofdeath; dehumanization; fetaltissue; fetus; justice; moloch; moralabsolutes; personhood; prolife; roevwade; ruling; scotus

1 posted on 03/04/2006 4:01:45 PM PST by Tarkin
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To: Tarkin

POS gouhls,
I can only hope they don't repent at the end


2 posted on 03/04/2006 4:05:00 PM PST by vrwc0915
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To: Tarkin

Is the judge a person?


3 posted on 03/04/2006 4:06:50 PM PST by Das Outsider (The chief end of man is not civil freedom.)
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To: vrwc0915
The women said they had nightmares after learning that Patricia Lukas, a technician in the morgue, saved fetal tissue rather than disposing of it in a grinder, which was the hospital's policy. Lukas was eventually fired.

"Lukas was simply trying to balance her own religious beliefs with the requirements of her job," the judge said, citing Lukas' court brief. "However, Lukas' religious beliefs that fetal tissue should not be placed in the grinder may be in conflict with religious beliefs of the plaintiffs."

Who are the ghouls?

In any case, may all repent.

Mrs VS

4 posted on 03/04/2006 4:12:47 PM PST by VeritatisSplendor
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To: Tarkin

My sister had a stillborn child in the 5th month of a pregnancy. She had the baby buried in a family plot.

Now this judge says that if the hospital had taken the fetus and ground it up she wouldnt have been able to claim it and give it a burial?

Having asked that question. I didnt know they ground fetus's
I assumed they were cremated. Grinding up a fetus is ghastly, ghoulish, almost like Saddam throwing people in mulchers. Geez. What is the matter with people who dont ask whats going on with their babies?


5 posted on 03/04/2006 4:14:09 PM PST by sgtbono2002
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To: Das Outsider

EXACTLY what I first thought too! Exactly!


6 posted on 03/04/2006 4:14:11 PM PST by jdm
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To: Tarkin

""However, Lukas' religious beliefs that fetal tissue should not be placed in the grinder may be in conflict with religious beliefs of the plaintiffs.""

So there are people willing to go public and say their religious beliefs dictate that babies should be placed in a grinder. Good grief.


7 posted on 03/04/2006 4:16:31 PM PST by A knight without armor
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To: Tarkin

The Judge basically said unborn children are no better than hamburger.
The grinder sentence made me sick. God have mercy on us.


8 posted on 03/04/2006 4:20:18 PM PST by BigFinn
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To: Tarkin

Hope he has a good explanation for his ruling when he meets his maker at the close of his pitiable life.


9 posted on 03/04/2006 4:20:48 PM PST by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys-Reagan and Bush)
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To: Tarkin

If it has DNA - it's a person! What an idiot!


10 posted on 03/04/2006 4:22:14 PM PST by CyberAnt (Democrats/Old Media: "controversy, crap and confusion" -- Amen!)
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To: Tarkin

Another moonbat Ohio judge.


11 posted on 03/04/2006 4:23:10 PM PST by RockinRight (Attention RNC...we're the party of Reagan, not FDR...)
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To: jdm
EXACTLY what I first thought too! Exactly!

"Erie County Former Fetal Tissue and Judge Tygh Tone" doesn't have the same ring to it, does it?

...ruled against extending the definition of "person" to include fetal tissue based on Roe v. Wade, which set a precedent that legal rights of a "person" have "generally been contingent upon live birth."

For some strange reason, I got the image of a lawyer in the delivery room with a stopwatch.
12 posted on 03/04/2006 4:28:25 PM PST by Das Outsider (The chief end of man is not civil freedom.)
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To: Das Outsider

Probably not. I've come to the conclusion that most liberals are in fact not human at all...they have to be from another planet to believe the crap they do!


13 posted on 03/04/2006 4:30:35 PM PST by RockinRight (Attention RNC...we're the party of Reagan, not FDR...)
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To: Das Outsider
Is the judge a person?

Must be a tissue blob that evolved into one.

14 posted on 03/04/2006 4:31:29 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Das Outsider

PS I'd be curious as to exactly which point in time he actually transistioned from "tissue mass" to actual "person."


15 posted on 03/04/2006 4:32:21 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Tarkin

It's also funny how a baby that is born prematurely is a person while the same baby remaining in the womb for another month or two is a piece of tissue.


16 posted on 03/04/2006 4:33:22 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Fruitbat
PS I'd be curious as to exactly which point in time he actually transistioned from "tissue mass" to actual "person."

That's what imagination is for. If you have kids, you understand the almost painful precision that they put into "I'm not touching you." This is a legal version, of sorts.
17 posted on 03/04/2006 4:38:42 PM PST by Das Outsider (The chief end of man is not civil freedom.)
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To: Tarkin
The women said they had nightmares after learning that Patricia Lukas, a technician in the morgue, saved fetal tissue rather than disposing of it in a grinder, which was the hospital's policy. Lukas was eventually fired.

That's whacked. I'd side with Lukas. I assume the grinder is typically intended for other biological waste? I would think common decency would steer people towards cremating stillborn babies rather than putting them in a grinder.

18 posted on 03/04/2006 4:38:57 PM PST by ahayes
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To: Fruitbat
Must be a tissue blob that evolved into one.

You can say this about Roe v. Wade: it is far more humane than many of our philosophers and ethicists.
19 posted on 03/04/2006 4:40:27 PM PST by Das Outsider (The chief end of man is not civil freedom.)
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To: RockinRight
Probably not. I've come to the conclusion that most liberals are in fact not human at all...they have to be from another planet to believe the crap they do!

A planet with many moons, thus all the lunatics.
20 posted on 03/04/2006 4:43:53 PM PST by Das Outsider (The chief end of man is not civil freedom.)
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To: BigFinn
One more pro-life Supreme Court Justice, and this barbarism ends.

May the Senate hold this Fall.

21 posted on 03/04/2006 4:54:00 PM PST by Giant Conservative
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To: RockinRight

Social liberalism is a belief in the death of all that is good.


22 posted on 03/04/2006 4:55:40 PM PST by Giant Conservative
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To: sgtbono2002

In our town we have one hospital who calls a funeral home for burial of the fetuses and stillborn and another hospital who will "dispose" of them.

I have alot of respect for families who treat the stillborns with honor. Just wanted to let you know that.


23 posted on 03/04/2006 4:58:24 PM PST by Bluepool
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To: Das Outsider
You can say this about Roe v. Wade: it is far more humane than many of our philosophers and ethicists.

There's absolutely nothing humane about slicing a baby into tiny bits, regardless of where it is in it's development.

The extrapolation of that opinion is horrifying.

24 posted on 03/04/2006 5:06:22 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Fruitbat

Ever notice how some journalists are so confused that
if a baby is born prematurely and unexpectedly some
will still refer to the baby as a fetus?

I think this reflects their belief that it may not have been a "wanted"
child!

Just ask one of the million or more parents yearning to adopt
if there is such a thing as an unwanted child.

As for the children forced into protective services and allowed to
languish in foster care, those are institutional and systemic issues.


25 posted on 03/04/2006 5:10:30 PM PST by Lesforlife ("For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb . . ." Psalm 139:13)
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To: Fruitbat
There's absolutely nothing humane about slicing a baby into tiny bits, regardless of where it is in it's development.

You missed my point. With regard to the issue of when life begins, Roe is more humane than the Singer or Pinker school of thought; the post-Roe orthodoxy is that live birth is necessary for personhood, as in this case. The philosophers and pseudoethicists suggest that personhood may come about later than that. I would think it's not that far of a leap to suggest that full-blown infanticide would become a reality.

Do you see now?
26 posted on 03/04/2006 5:14:24 PM PST by Das Outsider (The chief end of man is not civil freedom.)
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To: Das Outsider

Yep! ; )


27 posted on 03/04/2006 5:15:49 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Lesforlife
Good points!

I think this reflects their belief that it may not have been a "wanted" child!

I think this reflects their confusion. LOL

28 posted on 03/04/2006 5:16:58 PM PST by Fruitbat
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To: Tarkin

Sounds like we need a ruling from the "new" Supreme Court.


29 posted on 03/04/2006 5:27:41 PM PST by RightWinger
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To: Tarkin
Judge Says Disposed Fetus, Tissue Isn't a Person

More-or-less correct, your honorable ∂µmß@$$ - technically it's now a CORPSE.

30 posted on 03/04/2006 6:31:40 PM PST by solitas (So what if I support an OS that has fewer flaws than yours? 'Mystic' dual 500 G4's, OSX.4.2)
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To: Tarkin

Dispose of him nobody will miss him since he qualifies as a "non person".


31 posted on 03/04/2006 6:51:53 PM PST by winker
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To: VeritatisSplendor

I posted without readign the whole art


32 posted on 03/04/2006 7:36:11 PM PST by vrwc0915
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To: Das Outsider

There's a college professor on the East Coast who stated in class that a mother has the right to kill her baby up to 1-2 years after birth because the baby isn't aware of it's surrounding to be considered "human". He also advocates that the elderly who cannot take care of themselves any longer should not be classified as "human" because they have lost that status through dependency on others for basic needs.


33 posted on 03/04/2006 7:56:02 PM PST by Iam1ru1-2
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To: Tarkin

It is threads like this that finally made me stop lurking and choose a nickname.


34 posted on 03/04/2006 7:57:52 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: wagglebee

Horrible. The "regular" way is just as revolting and horrible.


35 posted on 03/04/2006 9:19:45 PM PST by little jeremiah (Education without values, as useful as it is, seems rather to make man a more clever devil. CS.Lewis)
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To: Giant Conservative

The Senate can hold if the purists stop whining about the Pubbies (many) mistakes and start voting the party line. Santorum is an obvious candidate for FR support, but no, people still want to whine about his support of Specter over Toomey. While I personally would have greatly preferred Toomey as a senator from Pennsylvania, I doubt he would have won the general election.

It would be nice if every GOP office holder were like Chambliss and Coburn in philosophy, but they're not. Its time to suck it up and support the only party that has a chance of promoting our ideals, the GOP, not staying home or wasting a vote with some minor party.

Most of this administration's mistakes have resulted from trying to finesse something past the opposition. Making the opposition stronger will not help Bush nor our cause(s).

Keep that in mind with SupCt cases too. Swinging for the bleachers may be emotionally satisfying, but it works only infrequently. We should use a more "nibbling" approach: partial birth abortion ban, expand parental notification, restrictions on the morning after pill, expanding fetal rights, etc. It is a more long-term strategy, but one that is more likely to gain traction with the public.


36 posted on 03/05/2006 6:01:34 AM PST by opocno (France, the other dead meat)
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To: Tarkin

So, the mothers would have felt better if their babies were ground up in a chipper, but feel bad about the babies being kept in jars like some weird freak show?

I am having a little trouble sympathizing with the moms here. An obvious solution would have been to have given birth and raised the children. But only after they find out the babies are in specimen jars, now they feel guilty?


37 posted on 03/05/2006 6:05:12 AM PST by opocno (France, the other dead meat)
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To: opocno; Jim Robinson
What you refer to as a "nibbling" approach, the same approach others have called "incremental", is inevitably doomed to failure. It only disheartens the social conservatives that the GOP fairly invariably takes for granted, while empowering the social left and convincing the general public that the right doesn't believe in their own positions on social issues enough to "swing for the fences".

Swinging for the fences is the way to go: people respect strong stands. Imagine if Ronald Reagan had taken a "nibbling" approach to the USSR: the Soviets would still rule Eastern Germany.

"Tear this wall down" was a bold stroke.

"Overturn Roe vs Wade" is a bold stroke.

In the end, bold strokes are what win the game.

38 posted on 03/05/2006 10:54:57 AM PST by Giant Conservative
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To: opocno
The Senate can hold if the purists stop whining about the Pubbies (many) mistakes and start voting the party line. Santorum is an obvious candidate for FR support, but no, people still want to whine about his support of Specter over Toomey. While I personally would have greatly preferred Toomey as a senator from Pennsylvania, I doubt he would have won the general election.

Although I believe Toomey would have won the general election, and that Santorum needed to be taken to task over his misguided support of Spectre, Santorum is still a great conservative and worthy of all the support Republicans can give him this Fall.

39 posted on 03/05/2006 10:58:54 AM PST by Giant Conservative
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To: Giant Conservative

Only if it works. Reagan squeezed the Soviet Union, he didn't declare war on them. He was "nibbling." We conservatives need to take the long view here. One more Sup Ct precedent supporting RvW could end our hopes once and for all.

"What you refer to as a "nibbling" approach, the same approach others have called "incremental", is inevitably doomed to failure. It only disheartens the social conservatives that the GOP fairly invariably takes for granted, while empowering the social left and convincing the general public that the right doesn't believe in their own positions on social issues enough to "swing for the fences".

Swinging for the fences is the way to go: people respect strong stands. Imagine if Ronald Reagan had taken a "nibbling" approach to the USSR: the Soviets would still rule Eastern Germany.

"Tear this wall down" was a bold stroke.

"Overturn Roe vs Wade" is a bold stroke.

In the end, bold strokes are what win the game."


40 posted on 03/05/2006 2:37:47 PM PST by opocno (France, the other dead meat)
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