Conservative Jews to Consider Ending a Ban on Same-Sex Unions and Gay Rabbis

The New York Times ^ | March 6, 2006 | LAURIE GOODSTEIN

[mikey565]

In a closed-door meeting this week in an undisclosed site near Baltimore, a committee of Jewish legal experts who set policy for Conservative Judaism will consider whether to lift their movement's ban on gay rabbis and same-sex unions.

In 1992, this same group, the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards, declared that Jewish law clearly prohibited commitment ceremonies for same-sex couples and the admission of openly gay people to rabbinical or cantorial schools. The vote was 19 to 3, with one abstention.

Since then, Conservative Jewish leaders say, they have watched as relatives, congregation members and even fellow rabbis publicly revealed their homosexuality. Students at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York City, the movement's flagship, began wearing buttons saying "Ordination Regardless of Orientation." Rabbis performed same-sex commitment ceremonies despite the ban.

The direction taken by Conservative Jews, who occupy the centrist position in Judaism between the more liberal Reform and the more strict Orthodox, will be closely watched at a time when many Christian denominations are torn over the same issue. Conservative Judaism claims to distinguish itself by adhering to Jewish law and tradition, or halacha, while bending to accommodate modern conditions.

"This is a very difficult moment for the movement," said Rabbi Joel H. Meyers, a nonvoting member of the law committee and executive vice president of the Rabbinical Assembly, which represents the movement's 1,600 rabbis worldwide.

"There are those who are saying, don't change the halacha because the paradigm model of the heterosexual family has to be maintained," said Rabbi Meyers, a stance he said he shared. "On the other hand is a group within the movement who say, look, we will lose thoughtful younger people if we don't make this change, and the movement will look stodgy and behind the times."

[mikey565]

Another win for the Gay Agenda

[Paleo Conservative]

Surely they can't be serious.

[traderrob6]

In 1992, this same group, the Committee on Jewish Law and Standards, declared that Jewish law clearly prohibited commitment ceremonies for same-sex couples and the admission of openly gay people to rabbinical or cantorial schools

So Jewish law emphatically states one thing and then just 14 years later it does not.

[edpc]

In the meeting, they determined the gay rabbis will be referred to as "He-blews."

[pissant]

Kinda like Evangelicals support Global Warming legislation.

[TXBSAFH]

Ping

[sarasota]

Sure they are serious. Fear of losing their membership leads folks down that slippery slope.

[sasafras]

Hmmm...lets change the laws of religion to suit the sinner. I guess if thats the key here then I can only imagine what Judiasm will be in 10 or 20 years. I cant believe that true Jews would seriously be considering this...if they are then they will fall out of favor quickly. They may increase the number of gays in their congregation but all others who read and understand the bible will leave.

[sasafras]

Do you really think this is about losing membership...I doubt it. It is about losing the political clout and money of the rich contributers. They are not concerned about saving souls in such a change only keeping money and power.

[Obadiah]

Heresy! Seeking the approval of men rather than God!

[longtermmemmory]

I can not see this happening but they will use the discussion itself to say this is a legitimate issue for the sexual fetish. "see homosexuality is SO important, conservative rabbis are considering endorsing sexual behavior."

[The Noodle]

So Jewish law emphatically states one thing and then just 14 years later it does not.

It's such a new and evolving religion that they still are working on a few things.

[sarasota]

We're on the same wavelength and thanks for elaborating.

[docbnj]

""There are those who are saying, don't change the halacha because the paradigm model of the heterosexual family has to be maintained," said Rabbi Meyers, a stance he said he shared. "On the other hand is a group within the movement who say, look, we will lose thoughtful younger people if we don't make this change, and the movement will look stodgy and behind the times.""

For "thoughtful younger people," substitute "thoughtless younger people."

Unfortunately, Judaism is just as weak as many other religions when it comes to standing for principle. Jews made up most of the cadre for the early communist movement. Now they seem to be going for radical feminism. What is wrong with those people?

[Always Right]

Since then, Conservative Jewish leaders say, they have watched as relatives, congregation members and even fellow rabbis publicly revealed their homosexuality. Students at the Jewish Theological Seminary in New York City, the movement's flagship, began wearing buttons saying "Ordination Regardless of Orientation."

So if Jewish leaders revealed themselves as thieves, perhaps we should white out some of the 10 Commandments while we are at it.

[goldstategop]

If they violate halacha to be trendy, they estrange themseles from the Jewish people and are no different from the Reform. Jewish law bans homosexual unions and considers homosexual behavior a grave sin. That has not changed in thousands of years. Jews shouldn't change their values to reflect contemporary social mores. If they do, they are pagans instead of being Jews.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[RexBeach]

Oy vey!

One more nail in the olde culture coffin.

OK, so you're a rabbi, and you're gay. What do you call your "partner"?

[svcw]

Conservative Jews to Consider Ending a Ban on Same-Sex Unions and Gay Rabbis

That headline is hysterical. They can not be conservative Jews if they are considering ending ban on same sex unions and gay Rabbis.

[longtermmemmory]

They don't expect to win, BUT they want to use the discussion as an indication of approval of the conservative rabbis.

Legitimate enough to discuss.

It does not matter this is DOA. This "rumored" discussion buys propaganda points. I bet it will even grow and be exagerated into some variation of an urban legend. That is unless the conservative rabbis come forward and deny ANY discussion is or will take place.

[holden]

2 Tim 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires[.]

ears?

HF

[aShepard]

OK,

But, we don't want no stinkin' gay mohels!

[Aquinasfan]

Soon only the Catholic Church will be left, explaining the Left's unbridled hatred of the Church.

[theFIRMbss]

>Surely they can't be serious

Shirley says they are.
(And she says Mr. Kinkaid
likes the idea!)

[SamuraiScot]

Conservative Jews to Consider Ending a Ban on Same-Sex Unions and Gay Rabbis

A touch deceptive in the headline. The strain of Judaism called Conservative isn't conservative. It's a descendant of Reform Judaism, a 19th-century liberal, no-Hebrew, "anything-goes" movement.

If I recall correctly, rabbis in the "Conservative" movement have been firmly pro-abortion for decades, the "moderate Republicans" of Judaism.

In effect, the NYT is running a shocking headline announcing that Olympia Snowe and Chris Dodd are liberals. I'd say the intended effect is to have us believe that actual conservatives favor poofery.

I'm not an expert, but I'm going to guess that the numbers of practicing Jews in the Orthodox and Hasidic movements blow away both "Conservative" and "Reform" participation.

[Aquinasfan]

They can not be conservative Jews if they are considering ending ban on same sex unions and gay Rabbis.

"Conservative Jews" refers to a "denomination" of Jews. The four main "denominations," as far as I know, are "Reformed" (liberal), "Conservative" (moderate), "Orthodox" (orthodox), and Hasidic.

I expect the Orthodox and Hasidic to retain their orthodox stance regarding sodomy.

[Star Traveler]

You said -- "They can not be conservative Jews if they are considering ending ban on same sex unions and gay Rabbis."

Well, "Conservative Jews" is a *name* not a *description*. That's the difference.

It would be more appropriate if you said -- "They can not be Orthodox Jews if they are considering ending ban on same sex unions and gay Rabbis."

Then the "name" would appropriately fit the "action" (and thus "description").

Regards,
Star Traveler

[Sabramerican]

There was a time not long ago when Conservative Judaism was a very "modern" form of Orthodox Judaism. Well within the perimeter2.

If they are moving toward the worthless Reform they will be just as worthless.

I believe only the Catholics have it right with the concept of "Lapsed".

You either believe or you are lapsed, you don't make up new beliefs from whim.

[quadrant]

I don't understand why anyone would care about losing members who cannot share the beliefs of the faith or why anyone would care about being stodgy and behind the times.

[goldstategop]

The moderates are being pushed Left by social pressures. So there's a good chance Conservative Judaism will become extinct in 10 years or so. The more observant members will move to Orthodoxy and the rest will become Reform. If to be a "moderate" means to espouse behavior antithetical to Judaism, I don't see what good its being a moderate. They're the wimps of the Jewish world.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[N. Theknow]

Oy Vey Fey.

[trebb]

And a female Presbyterian "minister"was recently absolve by a margin of 6-1 for performing wedding ceremonies for two lesbian couples - it is apparently not outside her perview as one of their ministers.Any doubts that churches are becoming apostate?

[goldstategop]

Exactly. They want to remain relevant but ditching tradition is only going to hasten their decline. Who wants to be a Conservative Jew when the more permissive Reform give you the freedom to be gay already without bringing halacha into it. And they lose what little respect they have from the Orthodox who will never change who they are no matter what era they live in. Either tradition means something or it doesn't. If Conservative Jews now believe tradition is outmoded and makes them appear stodgy and behind the times, they do not deserve to wear the appelation "conservative."

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[Diddle E. Squat]

"And there arose another generation after them, that knew not the LORD" - Judges 2:10.

[mikey565]

I always thought "Orthodox" and Hasidic were the same, or is it "ultra-Orthodox" the same as Hasidic?

[ChocChipCookie]

Can't they see what has happened to the Episcopalian church? I'm actually glad that Robinson was elected Bishop. It serves as a desperate and dire warning to all religions to not go down that path. Sadly, I don't believe that many will heed the warning.

[goldstategop]

I marvel how it took only 10 years for Conservative leaders to decide halacha is too much of a burden to keep. Why not just become Reform if its so inconvenient? Stop insulting us by trying to rewrite Jewish law to say something it never meant. Jews are forbidden to change God's word. It doesn't matter what the gentiles do; Jews are supposed to be different and that is precisely the point of being a Jew.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[goldstategop]

The only Jews left who matter are the Orthodox. They haven't ordained female rabbis and you will never hear them talk about accepting homosexuality as normal. For them, keeping tradition isn't a matter of keeping up with the Joneses; its keeping faith with God and living in accordance with His laws.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[theFIRMbss]

>there's a good chance Conservative Judaism will become extinct in 10 years or so

I do not think so.
What we're seeing all over
is the extinction

of "official" groups
that claim to represent folks
when really they're just

one or another
kind of political group.
But the internet

lets real grass roots groups
get together. The fake groups
one by one will die.

[goldstategop]

If you are worried about what liberals think and what society thinks, then yes, social relevance is a consideration. If you are worried about God thinks and about the World To Come, then faithfulness to tradition precludes all other considerations from view. In view of this divide, its not surprising why the membership in liberal denominations is either stagnant or in decline. I have no doubt what will happen to the Conservative Jewish movement if it abandons the Torah's teachings in a bid to remain cool and in tune with the era's social fads.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[Aquinasfan]

I always thought "Orthodox" and Hasidic were the same, or is it "ultra-Orthodox" the same as Hasidic?

That's what I used to think. But it's actually a relatively recent phenomena, having begun in the 18th century. I only have a vague understanding of it, but their spirituality is more mystical and Kabbalah-influenced than Orthodoxy, as far as I know.

[dighton]

This may soon need revision:

Orthodox wedding: the mother of the bride is pregnant.
Conservative: the bride is pregnant.
Reform: the rabbi is pregnant.
Reconstructionist: the groom is pregnant.

(credit unknown)

[sheik yerbouty]

My grandmother would describe this situation with one word.."Feh!"

[goldstategop]

Orthodox: man and woman
Conservative: choice of partner's sex identity optional
Reform: man-man or woman-woman marriage
Reconstructionist: marriage? what marriage

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[Alouette]

The commandment says "Be fruitful and multiply" but in the Conservative/Reform abridged shorter version it just says "Be fruitful."

FRmail me to be added or removed from this Judaic/pro-Israel/Russian Jewry ping list.

Warning! This is a high-volume ping list.

[Alouette]

we will lose thoughtful younger people if we don't make this change,

Those "thoughtful younger people" are already lost, considering they will never reproduce

and the movement will look stodgy and behind the times.

Oh, the horror.

[Lewite]

I do not care what Jewish law says, Yahweh in His Torah forbids the sodomite (queer) life style or practice. His Torah is not law but loving instructions for living our lives and doing His Will.

[Alouette]

I always thought "Orthodox" and Hasidic were the same, or is it "ultra-Orthodox" the same as Hasidic?

Hasidics are Orthodox Jews who follow the teachings of a particular Rebbe ("Grand Rabbi").

"Ultra-Orthodox" is a pejorative term invented by the liberal media to describe any Jews whose religious beliefs make liberals uncomfortable, like calling Evangelical Christians "bible-banging fundamentalists".

[Cicero]

My take on it is that Conservative Jews are kind of like what the MSM calls "moderate" Republicans, i.e., they go wherever the winds of fashion blow. Whereas liberal Jews are just plain leftists, first and foremost.

This is a pity, however.

I know nothing of the details, but I suspect it's right that they are more influenced by rich donor threats than by fear of losing membership. Because even the dullest eye can see the example of the Mainline Protestant churches. The more they follow the lastest trends and fashions, the more they bleed members. The Episcopal Church is a prime example.

[onedoug]

Homosexual death cult.

[Smedley]

Maseltov, it's a wedding at Temple Brokeback beth Vegas