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Is this gun legal in NJ?
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Posted on 03/07/2006 5:09:58 AM PST by tcostell

I was having a look around http://www.gunbroker.com/ and I came across a cheap little .22 caliber AK knockoff. It doesn't have any of functional features of a traditional AK, it's just a cute little pop gun in an AK wrapper. It was made in the PI and called an AK "trainer". I was thinking of buying it as a toy, on the assumption that it would be worth $150 or so for all the laughs it would get at the range.

Well it turns out the while the federal assault weapons ban may have gradfathered, we have our own vaguely defined assualt weapons ban in NJ as well. I've tried to determine if that ridiculous little gun is on the list, and the fact is, no one can tell me. Given I was buying it as a joke, I guess I'll have to pass this time, but it raises a broader issue:

Can anyone tell me if a particular gun is legal or illegal in NJ? Reading the NRA view of the legislation, even a Garand M1 Carbine constitutes an illegal firearm, but some AR type firearms are legal because they are 'match grade'.

Can anyone point me to a list of info where the details of the law are explained or do I really have to call a lawyer every time I want to buy a gun?

This state is just nuts.......

Thanks in advance.


TOPICS: US: New Jersey; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: banglist; chat; nolink; vanity; waste; youpostedthisinnews

1 posted on 03/07/2006 5:10:00 AM PST by tcostell
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To: tcostell

IMHO, there is no such thing as an "illegal" gun. Only illegal gun laws.........


2 posted on 03/07/2006 5:15:45 AM PST by Red Badger (And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him...)
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To: tcostell

contact impactguns.com i'm sure they can help you out.


3 posted on 03/07/2006 5:17:19 AM PST by Echo Talon
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To: tcostell

Caliber does not have anything to do with the definition on an assult rifle in NJ. A BB gun with those attributes such as pistal grip, flash supressor and so forth are used to define assult rifle in NJ. Many people who live in states other than NJ would laugh if you told them that you need and NJ firearms purchase permit to even inspect a BB gun in a NJ gun store. I remember being shocked the first time I saw BB guns, sling shots and shotgun shells available right on the shelf in a PA Walmart store.

I have been out of NJ for almost 2 years now and almost forget how bad it was. Now, just over the border in PA, I have several carry weapons and I'm thinking about getting an AK47 with high cap magazine, just because you can here. Last weekend I was shopping in a hardware store that has a large gun department. Some of the employees were open carry in the store, the rest concealed. It is night and day the difference between the two states.

I don't mean to gloat, but you should know that life outside of NJ is way different. Another thing...dues to belong to a gun club. When I lived in NJ, I belonged to a fairly nice private gun club. The dues was $200.00/year plus 2 work days. Nice place, but I now belong to 3 gun clubs here, the most expensive is $40.00/ year. One club that has everything my old NJ club has and more costs $15.00 yearly dues plus $10.00/year to fish in the lake, for $200.00 you can get a life membership in this club.


4 posted on 03/07/2006 5:37:48 AM PST by fatboy
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To: tcostell
There is an M1 Garand and an M1 Carbine. Both are .30 but there is a big difference between the two.

.22s are not toys, they are real weapons.

I think you need to get more information on firearms before you try to own any in NJ.
5 posted on 03/07/2006 5:40:01 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: tcostell
Is anything actually legal in NJ? Seems like the state is hell-bent on making "criminals" out of just about everyone.

Except illegal aliens, of course, who are about to be handed drivers' licenses without regard to NJ's usual strict identification policy.

Just as orange is the new black, New Jersey is the new California.
6 posted on 03/07/2006 5:41:17 AM PST by LIConFem (A fronte praecipitium, a tergo lupi.)
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To: PeteB570
Carbine William's first still was only a few miles from my house. Right about were FSU is not. Civilization and the law forced him to move it up near the Harnett County line near Dunn.
7 posted on 03/07/2006 5:44:26 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: tcostell
It doesn't have any of functional features of a traditional AK

Well, if NJ is anything like CT it won't matter. Here in CT, if the gun says Kalashnikov, it's illegal. Because we all know a word on the side of a gun makes it that much deadlier. Which is why I own an SAR-2.

8 posted on 03/07/2006 5:44:28 AM PST by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: PeteB570

I already own a bunch and have lived in NJ for years. I have plenty of firearms knowledge but the gun laws in NJ are just silly and follow no internally consistent logic.


9 posted on 03/07/2006 6:05:39 AM PST by tcostell
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To: Puppage
Actually I think a SAR is illegal in NJ as well.... hell I don't know... it can function the same, with the same caliber, but if the stock is different, then it's legal. But if it looks the same, even if it functions differently with a different caliber, then it's illegal....except when it isn't,... or when it is.

It's crazy.

10 posted on 03/07/2006 6:09:08 AM PST by tcostell
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To: tcostell
Apart from any legalities of NJ ownership:

My father gave me a AR15 .22 knock-off. It also was made in the Philippines.

Mine is really fun to shoot and cheap. It is amazingly accurate.

Hope you get to own and shoot your gun in NJ.

11 posted on 03/07/2006 6:11:22 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty)
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To: fatboy
I think I belong to that club now... it's a nice place, and I like the guys, and don't mind paying the fees.

But I'd really rather not add in the cost of a lawyer for every purchase.

12 posted on 03/07/2006 6:12:14 AM PST by tcostell
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To: fatboy
I think I belong to that club now... it's a nice place, and I like the guys, and don't mind paying the fees.

But I'd really rather not add in the cost of a lawyer for every purchase.

13 posted on 03/07/2006 6:12:16 AM PST by tcostell
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To: Bear_Slayer

I think that's the same company....I have an old Savage 22 from the 1940's with a weaver scope that I use for plinking, but I thought something like this would be fun.


14 posted on 03/07/2006 6:15:36 AM PST by tcostell
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To: tcostell
Most assault weapons bans are based on cosmetic features of the weapon, not the function. Bayonet lug, pistol grip, flash suppressor, high magazine capacity, folding stock, etc.

I can't recall off the top of my head but it was something like if your weapon included 3 of the banned items it was an evil "assault weapon". NJ law would follow along the same lines. For protection, if I was you, I would have a good understanding of just what that law is.

Just picking up the wrong hammer for an AR15/M16 at a gun show and putting it in your AR15 can make you in violation of federal law.
15 posted on 03/07/2006 6:17:36 AM PST by PeteB570 (Guns, what real men want for Christmas)
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To: tcostell
My was made in PI, but imported through the a PA company.

Anyhow, good luck.

16 posted on 03/07/2006 6:23:23 AM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty)
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To: PeteB570
No offense intended but that's kind of the point of my post. I've read the law and it's clearly designed to vague. (either that or it's one of the sloppiest pieces of legislation I've ever seen...or both.)

I was hoping there was some legal service ( for the NRA or some such) which had done the boots on the ground analysis of it for free and posted the data online so I don't have to pay a lawyer to look it over.

17 posted on 03/07/2006 6:24:25 AM PST by tcostell
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To: tcostell
"When dealing in guns, the citizen acts at his peril" -New Jersey Appellete Court

As you seem to realize, you have to be very, very careful in New Jersey. The above quote came from the case State v. Pelleteri where a New Jersey resident received a felony conviction for possessing a tubular magazine fed .22 semi-auto rifle, a Marlin 60. The tubular magazine held 17 rounds, 2 more than the state limit of 15 rounds. As the quote implies, he got absolutely no sympathy from the courts.

I believe the NJ semi-auto ban has 2 standards 1) an enumerated list of weapons banned by name 2) any other weapon with more than 2 features from a list of banned features (much like the dead US "assault weapons" ban).

You didn't state which features your gun has but if it has any thing more than a pistol grip and a removable magazine, it is a banned weapon and a felony to own in New Jersey. Even having a magazine which holds more than 15 rounds is a felony.

There has been a bill brought up in the NJ legislature every year to alter the assault weapon definition to include any rifle with more than 1 of the enumerated features. So any AR/AK would banned.

New Jersey has a very active, no compromise, no nonsense, never surrender self defense civil rights organization, the NJCSD. If you value your rights and the Second Amendment, come check us out. You can get knowledgable answers to all of your gun questions in our forums as well.

http://www.njcsd.org
18 posted on 03/07/2006 6:46:08 AM PST by Fun Bob
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To: tcostell

tcostell,

Do you have a copy of Evan Nappen's book on NJ gun laws? If you don't, get it, it is about $25.00 and the best money a NJ gun owner can spend. That book is one of the reasons why I decided to get out of NJ.

I know that it costs more to do things in NJ and that is one of the reasons why gun club dues costs more. OK, but in the area I now live in (pocono mtn, carbon county) there are gun clubs every where you look. My favorite one has all the facilities, outdoor rifle/pistol, indoor range archery, trap, skeet, everything plus a lake and at $15.00 year no less. I can even shoot my gun in my back yard if I wanted to.

Walk into the Carbon County sheriff office, give proof of residency and in 30 minutes you have a CCW license laminated in plastic. Go to a gun show and buy just about anything that is legal. How many gun shows are there in NJ? A NICS check will get you a handgun, no waiting 6 months and $45.00 for a NJ pistol purchase permit.

I lived in NJ for 45 of my 47 years and guns were a way of life for my family when we were kids. I mean my family was and is still to some extent well known in small bore compeditave circles. But when it really sinks in the difference between the laws and atitudes between a gun friendly state such as PA and a gun unfirendly state such as NJ it will really make your head hurt. Life long residents of NJ just have no idea, I know I didn't.

Two weeks ago we had the local police chief over to our house with an investigator looking into a problem my daughter is having with a computer "friend". While the computer expert was talking to my daughter and looking at her on line issues, the police chief and I were discussing guns. All kinds of guns and CCW issues and believe me it was a very friendly conversation, almost unreal. This kind of discussion would not have taken place between the chief of police in the NJ town I grew up in and my dad, who was the chief's son's rifle coach and this kid had as many as 6 national Jr. rifle records at the time.

Just to say, it's a different world out there and when you are in the NJ onclave, it is hard to see or believe how the rest of the country works with respect to gun laws and attitudes.


19 posted on 03/07/2006 6:52:53 AM PST by fatboy
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To: fatboy

I am sorry to report that Nappen's book is out of print and completely unavailable. When I spoke to his office over 1.5 years ago, I was told that there was no plan for another printing and in that time there hasn't been one. Nappen has reportedly since moved to New Hampshire to join the free state project.

It took me over a year to get a copy of Nappen II for myself and it was only by moaning to every NJ gunnie I knew that I eventually found someone who owned 2 copies and was willing to sell me one.

NJ is indeed a different world and one problem is that everyone flees rather than gets involved or even donates a red cent to the cause. Maybe the problem is as you say that NJ residents just don't know what they've lost or are aware of the level oppression under which we live here.

I'm a PA native and look forward to the day I can return home to my native Pennsyltucky and end enjoy life as a citizen rather than an inmate.

The thing is, New Jersey is not just an isolated a world away whose problems can be escaped from. You see, a lot of the gun control innovations we see in the US originate in New Jersey. The assault weapons and high-cap magazine bans were first passed in New Jersey. New Jersey has the smart gun law that is being whispered about in other state houses and may soon become reality. NJ is a problem that in the future can have an unfortunate spill over effect on the rest of the country.

Lately, PA has been a hotbed for state level anti-gun initiatives, which thankfully so far have not yet gained much traction. A lot of the focus on PA is the direct result of NJ gun control nuts that have set their sites on PA as the next domino they want to fall.

Right now as we speak, they are rabble rousing to limit handgun purchases in PA to 1 a month.

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/editorial/13848930.htm

Rendell himself is intimately connected to gun control extremists. In fact, he was the first US city mayor to suggest that cities sue gun manufacturers. A lot of this attention of the gun control lobby is coming at you directly out of New Jersey.

One of NJ's main anti-gun activists, Bryan Miller of the CeaseFireNJ, a guy intimately connected with anti-gun democrats in this state such as Torricelli, Loretta Weinberg, and Corzine himself, is also very active across the Delaware in PA. In fact, he is the exec director of CeaseFirePA, an organization so much better funded than we could ever hope to be. Don't believe me? Look at this page. They have a $25,000 donation just from one fellow extremist with deep pockets (George Soros?).

http://www.ceasefirepa.org/membership.htm

You may escape New Jersey, but New Jersey isn't satisfied for you to get away and enjoy your liberties elsewhere. A stand must be taken in this state but unfortunately; we have been all but abandoned by the NRA.

The problem is, when we get down to it, our greatest enemies are NJ gun owners. We constantly find that NJ gun owners are either too apathetic (we have heard many times, things like, "it's not a big deal, if they take my gun I'll find another hobby/take up fishing"). There is also too much antagonism between different groups of gun owners. We find that black rifle shooters don't care that much about handgun or CCW rights. Skeet shooters/fowl hunters don't care about anything but their shotgun. Hunters in general tend to be happy with any gun control so long as they have sportsmen’s exemptions. The NJCSD is a big tent organization that represents all gun owners to protect our human right to self-defense and the right of ownership of the tools of self-defense and we do not compromise on that principle.

We can use any and all support we can get.

http://www.njcsd.org


20 posted on 03/07/2006 9:39:08 AM PST by Fun Bob
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To: tcostell
Don't know if the gun is or not (prolly not), but your anonymous posting sure is! Please log off and re register with your full name, address, phone number and SSN (for verification purposes only), and we'll let you post.

NJ Bill Would Prohibit Anonymous Posts on Forums...

21 posted on 03/07/2006 9:46:54 AM PST by AFreeBird (your mileage may vary)
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To: tcostell
"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

I don't see any qualifications for "illegal" weapons in the Second Amendment. There are no such things.

22 posted on 03/07/2006 9:52:03 AM PST by Euro-American Scum (A poverty-stricken middle class must be a disarmed middle class)
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To: fatboy

Fatboy, I know where you're coming from - I lived in NJ for about 38 of my 40 years before leaving 5 years ago for TX. Now I can carry a .45, buy a handgun as fast as the paperwork can be prepared, own whatever rifle and however many magazines of whatever capacity I'd like. Hell, I can even buy full autos if I had enough bucks to pony up for them. I didn't leave NJ because of guns, but let's just say that guns didn't appear on my list of "reasons to stay in NJ" list.

I used to go with a friend to gun shows in PA after Fascist Florio rammed the AWB through the legislature. I got a real kick out of the "America starts here" signs that PA Gov. Casey had put up. I also bought lots of verboten mags for my guns, just as a way of giving Florio the finger. Several years later, I got married, and about 1 1/2 years after that we left for TX. As we passed into Delaware on the DWB, I turned to my wife and casually mentioned that "now you won't have to worry about bailing me out of jail." After picking her eyeballs off of the floor, she asked me why, and I explained the magazine law. She then asked me how many I had, and I said, "Oh, about 200 years in Rahway worth, and there sitting 18 inches behind our butts." Silence. Then she said, "They don't have laws like that in Texas, do they?" I said, "No, Texas is in America."

Having lived here for 5 years, and seeing how bad it truly is getting in NJ, I can honestly say that I will never go back there to live - because that would be almost like moving from East Germany to West Germany, staying awhile, and then deciding to go back to East Germany. Insane I'm not.


23 posted on 03/07/2006 2:07:31 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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To: Ancesthntr
...and there sitting...

should be: ...and they're sitting...

24 posted on 03/07/2006 2:10:20 PM PST by Ancesthntr
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