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Saddam And WMD: Russia's Role
Investor's Business Daily ^ | 3/7/2006 | Editor

Posted on 03/07/2006 8:22:45 AM PST by Isara

..frenzy over the Katrina tapes stands in stark contrast to..disinterest of Democrats and the media in the Saddam tapes showing Iraq had WMD and Bush didn't lie.

...just before Operation Iraqi Freedom both Israeli intelligence and U.S. satellite surveillance detected large amounts of military material moving from Iraq to Syria.

...not a panicked move...it was a well-planned operation conducted with the assistance of Russia, to which Iraq was $8 billion in debt, much of it for weapons. Russia was worried about what coalition forces might find.

According to John Shaw, former deputy undersecretary for international technology security, the WMD were moved out of Iraq by Russian special forces (Spetsnaz) units. "While in Iraq," Shaw states, "I uncovered detailed information that Spetsnaz units shredded records and moved all WMD and specified advanced munitions out of Iraq to Syria and Lebanon."

Former top Romanian spy chief Ion Mihai Pacepa has written about the existence of "a standard Soviet operating procedure for deep-sixing weapons of mass destruction" in Soviet client states. The plan, which the Romanians called "Sarindar," or "emergency exit," was initially designed for Libya — a Reagan administration target — and implemented in Iraq.

According to an article by David Dastych in the Canada Free Press, the operation in Iraq was carried out by Russia's GRU (Military Intelligence), Spetsnaz (Special Troops) and Russian military and civilian logistic personnel in Iraq under the command of two veteran ex-Soviet generals — Vladislav Achalov and Igor Maltsev, operating under the guise of being civilian consultants.

Photos taken in early 2003 show Achalov and Maltsev receiving awards from Iraqi Defense Minister Sultan Hashim Akhmed in a building destroyed by U.S. cruise missiles.

What were they receiving awards for just days before coalition forces began their rush to Baghdad? Achalov reportedly said he "didn't fly to Baghdad to drink coffee."

...


(Excerpt) Read more at investors.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: achalov; bushlied; igormaltsev; ionmihaipacepa; iraq; jackshawjohnshaw; johnajackshaw; johnashaw; johnshaw; lebanon; maltsev; pacepa; russia; sarindar; shaw; spetsnaz; syria; vladislavachalov; wmd; wmds
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So what happened to the 380 tons of high explosives that were reported missing from the Al-Qaqaa military installation south of Baghdad in the fall of 2004, explosives so powerful they could be used to detonate nuclear weapons? The Pentagon issued a statement saying the "movement of 377 tons of heavy ordnance would have required dozens of heavy trucks," not something ragtag elements of a crumbling resistance could have managed on roads occupied by an onrushing U.S. Army. Maybe the WMD were on some of those trucks driven out of Iraq into Syria, likely under Russian supervision.
1 posted on 03/07/2006 8:22:46 AM PST by Isara
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To: Isara

Thanks, I was hoping someone would post this, Jim Quinn referenced it on his show this morning and I can't wait to read the entire thing.


2 posted on 03/07/2006 8:26:02 AM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Isara; GarySpFc; Romanov; jb6; Hill of Tara; RusIvan

Why is it folks insist on propagating this rumor?

The supervision was that of exiled Soviet generals who are persona non grata in Russia.


3 posted on 03/07/2006 8:26:42 AM PST by x5452
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To: Isara
Ion Mihai Pacepa (born 28 October 1928) is the highest intelligence official ever to have defected from the Soviet bloc to the West. In July 1978, Pacepa was a two-star Romanian general who simultaneously held the rank of advisor to President Nicolae Ceausescu, acting chief of his foreign intelligence service and state secretary in Romania’s Ministry of Interior. He defected to the United States following President Jimmy Carter's approval of his request for asylum.
4 posted on 03/07/2006 8:29:31 AM PST by x5452
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To: infidel29

I was surprised that nobody posted it. The article was up on IBD site since last night.


5 posted on 03/07/2006 8:30:37 AM PST by Isara
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To: Isara

I was going to look for it on IBD, I heard about it at work, and due to a sick step daughter, now I don't have to :)


6 posted on 03/07/2006 8:36:21 AM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: infidel29

You're welcome!


7 posted on 03/07/2006 8:39:31 AM PST by Isara
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To: Isara

John Shaw is widly regarded as having been pressured to resign for falsifying documents, and for trying to get sweet contracts for croonies, at home and abroad. He helped Ukranians get high positions in the Ukraine intelligence service as well.

Is it more likely that MI6, the Pentagon, and the White House are covering up Russian involvement or that Shaw's Ukranian pals gossiped to him that Russians were involved so he's shouting it from the tree tops to try to distract from his tarnished name?


8 posted on 03/07/2006 8:55:18 AM PST by x5452
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To: Isara

Consider also the strange death of Dr. David Kelley in the UK. It was labeled a suicide and came on the heels of a shameful experience of being caught between a hostile media and the pro war faction of the government.

The interesting thing is, Kelley was one of few arms inspection experts who had personally inspected both Russian and Iraqi biowar programs and was in quite a good position to connect the dots. Obviously, this is not "evidence" of anything, but it is nonetheless a very interesting circumstance.


9 posted on 03/07/2006 9:00:00 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: x5452

You are doing lots of spin control here.


10 posted on 03/07/2006 9:00:54 AM PST by GOP_1900AD (Stomping on "PC," destroying the Left, and smoking out faux "conservatives" - Take Back The GOP!)
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To: x5452; Isara
Keep reading articles on FR about WMD being moved out by the Russians, from all sorts of sources.

Why has there been no firm statement on this from the White House and/or the Pentagon.

11 posted on 03/07/2006 9:03:00 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: Isara
And in this interview from WorldThreats.com The Changed Baathist: Interview with Ali Ibrahim Al-Tikriti the General says:

I know Saddam's weapons are in Syria due to certain military deals that were made going as far back as the late 1980's that dealt with the event that either capitols were threatened with being overrun by an enemy nation. Not to mention I have discussed this in-depth with various contacts of mine who have confirmed what I already knew. At this point Saddam knew that the United States were eventually going to come for his weapons and the United States wasn't going to just let this go like they did in the original Gulf War. He knew that he had lied for this many years and wanted to maintain legitimacy with the pan Arab nationalists. He also has wanted since he took power to embarrass the West and this was the perfect opportunity to do so.
12 posted on 03/07/2006 9:03:39 AM PST by \/\/ayne (Give me Liberty or give me the ACLU)
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To: tonycavanagh

And I only caught the tail end of an interview on FNC this morning, but the gentleman being interviewed on this same subject said something about the Russians using a ship or ships to dump Iraqi WMDs into the ocean. WMDs which had been shipped out of Iraq and into Syria in the months before the war. Anyone catch that interview?


13 posted on 03/07/2006 9:06:48 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: GOP_1900AD

It's hardly spin control, there are facts not being reported here, and they are the reason the White House, MI6, and the Pentagon have yet to come to a conclusion on this.

It's quite likely that the weapons moved to Syria, and there's evidence for it (the trucks seen crossing the border). The only evidence Russians were involved is Shaw saying that he saw evidence in a MI6 report indicating as much. Oh and a former KGB leader who Jimmy Carter gave asylum saying he recalls a plan like this for FSU states.


14 posted on 03/07/2006 9:07:56 AM PST by x5452
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To: Isara; Stellar Dendrite; MARKUSPRIME; Tailgunner Joe; lizol

PING


15 posted on 03/07/2006 9:09:03 AM PST by Thunder90
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To: tonycavanagh

(And why is it that the only guy from the Pentagon to say the Russians were involved was basically fired. Crackpot maybe?)


16 posted on 03/07/2006 9:09:15 AM PST by x5452
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To: mewzilla
re :Russians using a ship or ships to dump Iraqi WMDs into the ocean.

I have heard this rumor if this is true then we tracked those ships and know where they were sunk and would be able to extract some if not all there contents.

17 posted on 03/07/2006 9:10:22 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: mewzilla

Where are the envriomentalists on this????


18 posted on 03/07/2006 9:11:07 AM PST by Thunder90
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To: x5452

Then, why was Primakov the one who authorised the movements of the WMD???


19 posted on 03/07/2006 9:11:58 AM PST by Thunder90
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To: x5452
All I can see is

1) There were no WMD

2) There were WMD and for reasons I cannot fathom we have a deal with the Russians.

3) There were WMD and they were moved but we really have no idea who moved them and where they were moved to and who controls them.

I cannot think of any other reason for this silence from the White house and Pentagon on the WMD issue and the Rumor issue

20 posted on 03/07/2006 9:13:31 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh

Wish I could recall the name of the gentleman being interviewed. He was also taking about the thousands of boxes of info we got from Baghdad right after it fell and that we haven't translated yet. And those Saddamn tapes. Not sure if the ship info was from the boxed docs or the tapes. But I got the impression that the ship info has been documented and that it's not a rumor. Why the heck the admin's kept this quiet is beyond me. Unless Ferret Face, Assad Jr., is really co-operating with us somehow. Wouldn't that be a hoot? :)


21 posted on 03/07/2006 9:15:19 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Thunder90
Where are the envriomentalists on this????

Good question.

22 posted on 03/07/2006 9:15:55 AM PST by mewzilla (Property must be secured or liberty cannot exist. John Adams)
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To: Thunder90

Primakov didn't authorize the movements, the only guy who says he did was fired for among other things helping ukranians get promoted.

Primakov was in Bagdad telling Saddam that Putin felt it was time for Sadam to resign, and that Russia wouldn't do crap for him if push came to shove.


23 posted on 03/07/2006 9:16:54 AM PST by x5452
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To: Isara
.....disinterest of Democrats and the media in the Saddam tapes showing Iraq had WMD and Bush didn't lie.

Unfortunately this disinterest also appears to extend to GOP congressmen.

24 posted on 03/07/2006 9:17:19 AM PST by Mr. Mojo
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To: x5452

Wrong again... Putin wanted Saddam to stay in power.


25 posted on 03/07/2006 9:20:39 AM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

Wrong again tell the voices in your head to produce a link to some evidence for once.


26 posted on 03/07/2006 9:21:25 AM PST by x5452
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To: tonycavanagh
Why has there been no firm statement on this from the White House and/or the Pentagon.

My only guess is Wasington wants to keep good relations with Russia considering all their stockpiles of nukes that they could be convinced to sell to radical Islamists.

Russia could have done it because of cold war treaties between old USSR/KGB etc. and Saddam. Also lots of 'oil for food' money.

27 posted on 03/07/2006 9:25:41 AM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: Isara

There has been word of this since late 03, if it's true why isn't the Bush Admin/Pentagon/CIA documenting & publicizing the movememts out of Iraq into Syria & Lebanon? As well as the current locations?

I don't get it, why not get the truth out -- if it is the truth?


28 posted on 03/07/2006 9:25:44 AM PST by citizen (Yo W! Read my lips: No Amnistia by any name! And the White House has a fence around it!)
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To: x5452

http://www.thatliberalmedia.com/archives/002163.html


29 posted on 03/07/2006 9:26:04 AM PST by Thunder90
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To: Thunder90

Oh yeah well sourced proof:

"Russia warned the United States on several occasions that Iraq's Saddam Hussein planned "terrorist attacks" on its soil, President Vladimir Putin said Friday.
"After the events of September 11, 2001, and before the start of the military operation in Iraq, Russian special services several times received such information and passed it on to their American colleagues," he told reporters.

The Kremlin leader, who was speaking in the Kazakh capital, said Russian intelligence services had many times received information that Saddam's special forces were preparing terrorist attacks in the United States "and beyond its borders on American military and civilian targets."

"This information was conveyed to our American colleagues," he said. He added that Russian intelligence had no proof that Saddam agents had been involved in any particular attack."


30 posted on 03/07/2006 9:28:38 AM PST by x5452
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To: x5452

The Chinese even gave us that sort of Information. The thing is is that there were very few Iraqi agents in the US at the time the war happened.


31 posted on 03/07/2006 9:29:53 AM PST by Thunder90
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To: citizen

Well consider the source of the 'aledged truth'. A former KGB leader who Jimmy Carter invited to America, and a fired Pentagon official known for corruption.


32 posted on 03/07/2006 9:30:03 AM PST by x5452
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To: Isara

Maybe the WMD were on some of those trucks driven out of Iraq into Syria, likely under Russian supervision.==

"Maybe" is key word here.

All this suddently "uncovers" look like the PR campaign. Some rumors, some fabricated evidences and ola la. We found those guilty. Someone else not us.
How it is borring. Yawn..

MSM again don't respect a little bit public intellect so feed us same bull again. Why people so stupid that buy this?


33 posted on 03/07/2006 9:38:23 AM PST by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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To: Thunder90

Wrong again... Putin wanted Saddam to stay in power.==

He wanted all right. Do you think that Sddam secular goverment is worser then today theocratic goverment of Iraq? Accually America spended 300 blns of dollar for handed power to the shiite theocrates. Tomorrow there will be new islamic republic like in Iran. What will you say then?

Why you don't use your brains and check everything they say to you on media?


34 posted on 03/07/2006 9:42:00 AM PST by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
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To: Stellar Dendrite

I thought you would be interested in this. I find it interesting that it is trying to be debunked so quickly! Because I've done a massive amount of research into this and find arrows pointing many different directions, but all back to Russia. Go fig.


35 posted on 03/07/2006 10:46:57 AM PST by Jhohanna (Born Free)
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To: Jhohanna

russia and putin DID help to move saddam's wmds.
as you can tell, the same old crowd gets on every thread and denounce those who tell the truth about putin. pay no attention to them.


putin is america's enemy.


36 posted on 03/07/2006 11:09:59 AM PST by Stellar Dendrite (UAE-- Funds HAMAS and CAIR, check my homepage [UPDATED FREQUENTLY])
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To: Stellar Dendrite
You go from one thread to another posting things to play on people emotions but now it is time you are faced with some logic, something that you have never had.
37 posted on 03/07/2006 7:03:12 PM PST by GarySpFc (de oppresso liber)
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To: GarySpFc

lol gary...same old post over and over. last week i asked you your thoughts on this and you replied with nothing.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1586454/posts

the same claim i've been pushing for a long while now (which you tried so hard to discredit) is now coming to the surface...which is russia helped saddam move WMDs.



it's interesting as to why a "patriotic american" such as yourself would get so upset over the criticism of a thug like putin who arms venezuela, iran, iraq etc? putins actions have led to the deaths of american soldiers.




38 posted on 03/07/2006 7:42:01 PM PST by Stellar Dendrite (UAE-- Funds HAMAS and CAIR, check my homepage [UPDATED FREQUENTLY])
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To: x5452

Not to mention Shaw's the guy who reportedly threatened to create "Iran-Contra II" if he lost his job after he got caught helping his friends get contracts in Iraq.


39 posted on 03/07/2006 9:28:57 PM PST by piasa (Attitude Adjustments Offered Here Free of Charge)
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To: citizen
I don't get it, why not get the truth out -- if it is the truth?

If we assume for arguments sake that the Russians assisted the removal of WMD from Saddam's Iraq, one must wonder why Saddam gave control of these WMD back to Russia ? These were the only tools that had a chance at preserving the Babylonian King's reign. His two sons eventually chose to fight to the death, why would not Saddam ? One must conclude that in the situation that Saddam was faced, he would have never given control of his WMD back to Russia. Especially a Russia that had been previously kicked out of Afghanistan and many other former republics. The only logical situation that makes sense is that the WMD were always under control of the Russians. Or that the Russians had seized control at some point. Perhaps this may explain the silence. The real question is would the King of Babylon ever agree to move his greatest defensive weapon out of Babylon ?

40 posted on 03/07/2006 10:37:11 PM PST by justa-hairyape
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To: infidel29
re :My only guess is Washington wants to keep good relations with Russia considering all their stockpiles of nukes that they could be convinced to sell to radical Islamists.

When we stood up to Communism we had to make lots of dirty shady deals with a lot of dirty shady individuals.

Many of these individuals and groups are todays enemy in the War on Terror.

I wonder how many dirty shade individuals who we are using or need today as allies will be tomorrows enemy, in the next war after this.

41 posted on 03/08/2006 3:43:56 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: justa-hairyape
re :The only logical situation that makes sense is that the WMD were always under control of the Russians.

Now that is an interesting thought, but if this is true for Iraq is it true for North Korea and Iran.

If I really was one of those conspiracy speculators I could say that the whole WMD was manufactured by Russia to cause America to overstretch herself as the old Soviet Union did.

After all if there is a Civil War in Iraq and American troops start getting killed in huge numbers would it lead to a Strong isolationist movement in America.

Actually from my experience no one could really carry out a plan this complex.

42 posted on 03/08/2006 3:48:28 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh

Russia would have to in that case presume America would fight wars as stupidly as Russia did (Not to mention have their own mafia selling weapons to their enemies).

Half the reason Russia did so poorly in Chechnya and Afghanistan is their own mafia arming to forces of the enemy.


43 posted on 03/08/2006 5:35:07 AM PST by x5452
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To: x5452
Afghanistan was and Chechnya is a tar pit the Russians could of done without.

Whose to say Iraq and Iran wont be for us.

And before I get lots of irate freepers flaming me.

Its not over yet and we are no where near a stable Iraq, I wont say it cant happen but we have some distance to go and a lot can happen before then.

44 posted on 03/08/2006 7:17:48 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: tonycavanagh

As a plus we don't border Iraq or Iran, and we also have things like unmanned drones that releive preassure on troops. We also don't have mafia working within our own army to give weapons to the enemy.


45 posted on 03/08/2006 7:29:15 AM PST by x5452
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To: x5452
re :As a plus we don't border Iraq or Iran, and we also have things like unmanned drones that relieve pressure on troops. We also don't have mafia working within our own army to give weapons to the enemy.

Plus at least we are taking into account winning the hearts and minds of the local population, something the Russians never attempted.

46 posted on 03/08/2006 9:51:23 AM PST by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: justa-hairyape

Yeah, makes sense. Russia's been cozy w/ Saddam for a long time. Must be one hellava Russia/WMD connection if Bush is willing to get whacked around so much by the Dim/MSM crowd.


47 posted on 03/08/2006 9:52:12 AM PST by citizen (Yo W! Read my lips: No Amnistia by any name! And the White House has a fence around it!)
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To: aflaak

ping


48 posted on 03/08/2006 2:15:56 PM PST by aflaak
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To: tonycavanagh
I wonder how many dirty shade individuals who we are using or need today as allies...

Or how many of Clinton's skeletons will come out of the graveyard.

49 posted on 03/08/2006 2:58:39 PM PST by infidel29 ("We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." --Benjamin Franklin)
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To: citizen
Must be one hellava Russia/WMD connection if Bush is willing to get whacked around so much by the Dim/MSM crowd.

What does Bush et. al. have to lose ? The historically devastating blows from the once powerful, 'red carpet elite', only seem to cause minor rashes now.

50 posted on 03/08/2006 3:48:19 PM PST by justa-hairyape
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