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Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?
email ^ | March 2006 | email

Posted on 03/14/2006 5:58:55 PM PST by Louisiana

Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?

Consider this:

Theologically, no. Because his allegiance is to Allah, the moon god of Arabia.

Scripturally, no. Because his allegiance is to the five pillars of Islam and the Quran (Koran).

Geographically, no. Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially, no. Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews.

Politically, no. Because he must submit to the mullah (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically, no, because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

Religiously, no. Because no other religion is accepted by his Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256)

Intellectually, no, because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically, no, because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co - exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

Spiritually, no, because when we declare "one nation under God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as our heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Quran's 99 excellent names.

Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: islam; musilim; muslims; patriotism
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This was emailed to me. Entire email is entact.

Religion of peace. yep.

1 posted on 03/14/2006 5:58:58 PM PST by Louisiana
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To: Louisiana

I know several very, very patriotic muslims.


2 posted on 03/14/2006 6:00:53 PM PST by pissant
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To: Louisiana
What about the Christians who live in Arabic speaking lands and use Arab language gospels? Who is their God?

You ought to think about this a bit before you start denying Christians their God.

3 posted on 03/14/2006 6:01:50 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
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To: Louisiana

None of this prevents Muslims from being good Democrats.


4 posted on 03/14/2006 6:02:37 PM PST by SittinYonder (That's how I saw it, and see it still.)
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To: Louisiana

Diatribe against Muslims?


You RACIST! ;o)


(sarc)


5 posted on 03/14/2006 6:03:32 PM PST by trubluolyguy (Religion of Peace or Cult of Death? How much evidence exists for either one?)
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To: pissant
I know several very, very patriotic muslims.

I know several very, very patriotic Americans that I will not trust to leave my wife and children with. Nor will I trust them to cover my back. Your point is?

6 posted on 03/14/2006 6:04:32 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: Louisiana

No, and neither can a present day Democrat/Liberal be.


7 posted on 03/14/2006 6:05:31 PM PST by Solamente
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To: pissant
I know several very, very patriotic muslims.

I do too...to a man, they are intelligent, hardworking, affable, and love the United States. They also happen to be really lousy "Muslims." They never read the Qu'ran. They don't pray to Mecca. They don't go to the mosque. In fact, the only resemblance they have to Muslims is that they are from a particular country. They are Muslims like Ted Kennedy is a Catholic.
8 posted on 03/14/2006 6:06:22 PM PST by Old_Mil (http://www.constitutionparty.org - Forging a Rebirth of Freedom.)
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To: Louisiana

The lone Jihadist in NC went off simply because he was a good Muslim.


9 posted on 03/14/2006 6:07:35 PM PST by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

Point is, that many muslims in this country KNOW the USA is the best hope for them, and the only hope to force reform in their homelands.

The Kurds of Seattle dancing in the streets after the fall of Baghdad saying God Bless George Bush are but one example.


10 posted on 03/14/2006 6:08:32 PM PST by pissant
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To: muawiyah

> What about the Christians who live in Arabic speaking lands and use Arab language gospels? Who is their God?

The post is about Muslims, not Arabs.

There are Christian Arabs, but no Christian Muslims.


11 posted on 03/14/2006 6:09:21 PM PST by old-ager
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To: muawiyah

I don't understand your point. I'm not saying that I agree with his, but how is it that Middle Eastern Muslims reading the Koran in Arabic is the same as Middle Eastern Christians reading the Bible in Arabic. They're two different books.


12 posted on 03/14/2006 6:10:19 PM PST by LauraleeBraswell
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To: Louisiana

So then, based on these areguments, catholics can not be good americans and patriots?


13 posted on 03/14/2006 6:10:44 PM PST by Bear_Slayer (When liberty is outlawed only outlaws will have liberty)
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To: Old_Mil
They are practicing Muslims like Ted Kennedy is a practicing Catholic.

Not to pick a nit.

14 posted on 03/14/2006 6:11:44 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: pissant

You can extract precepts of the Christian faith, especially Catholicism, and conclude that adherence to the religion foreclosed patriotism.

It was only in the 1960's that many in the U.S. believed that the Pope was ready to rule America if Kennedy won the election.


15 posted on 03/14/2006 6:11:59 PM PST by DOGEY
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To: Old_Mil
They also happen to be really lousy "Muslims." They never read the Qu'ran.

That's really the point.
It's the Muslims that actually read and believe the Koran
and the Hadiths...
and then "put their faith into action" that are a danger.

Lapsed and/or apostate Muslims are generally not a problem.
Of course, a few of them get killed before they can escape to havens.
Like the USA.
16 posted on 03/14/2006 6:12:38 PM PST by VOA
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To: Old_Mil

Not so for some of the ones I've met. I've never met a more anti-mullah person in my life than 2 Iranians I worked with. And I currently work with a devout Pakistani, who abhores Bin Laden and was very disgusted by the whole BS cartoon protests.


17 posted on 03/14/2006 6:12:54 PM PST by pissant
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To: Louisiana
Therefore after much study and deliberation....perhaps we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country. They obviously cannot be both good Muslims and good Americans. Call it what you wish...it's still the truth. If you find yourself intellectually in agreement with the above, perhaps you will share this with your friends. The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country.

I wouldn't insult the intelligence of my friends by sending this e-mail to them, and I certainly wouldn't disgrace myself and my family by doing so either. To paint every single Muslim with the same brush is wrong, IMHO.

18 posted on 03/14/2006 6:14:24 PM PST by Chena (I'm not young enough to know everything.)
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To: pissant

I don't.


19 posted on 03/14/2006 6:15:26 PM PST by PokeyJoe
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To: ARealMothersSonForever
I know several very, very patriotic Americans that I will not trust to leave my wife and children with. Nor will I trust them to cover my back. Your point is?

Does that mean because you won't trust "several very, very patriotic Americans", you would then choose to distrust ALL patriotic Americans? Something to think about. :)

20 posted on 03/14/2006 6:17:05 PM PST by Chena (I'm not young enough to know everything.)
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To: pissant
Point is, that many muslims in this country KNOW the USA is the best hope for them, and the only hope to force reform in their homelands.

That is the fundamental issue. They seek to force change. Most of Christianity believes in free will, and the choice for salvation.

The Kurds of Seattle dancing in the streets after the fall of Baghdad saying God Bless George Bush are but one example.

And these same people wonder why their religionists accuse them of idolatry and blasphemy? God bless America would have significant impact. To give credit to a simple man (even if the President and CIC) is misguided.

21 posted on 03/14/2006 6:18:39 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: DOGEY

I know. I admire the Pope greatly, as do most devout Catholics. And yet, many devout Catholics, including priests, have gone to war for this country again and again.


22 posted on 03/14/2006 6:19:22 PM PST by pissant
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To: PokeyJoe

And our opinions are usually based on persoanl experience.


23 posted on 03/14/2006 6:19:57 PM PST by pissant
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To: pissant
Heck, I know a Muslim that votes Libertarian.
24 posted on 03/14/2006 6:20:24 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Louisiana
Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?
 
 
NO!  I don't think so from what I have seen.

25 posted on 03/14/2006 6:20:56 PM PST by Radix (Stop domestic violence. Beat abroad.)
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

The radicals, of which there are many, seek to force change. The vast majority of muslims do not, especially in this country.

Well, if not for GWB being president, Saddam would still be in his palace.


26 posted on 03/14/2006 6:23:02 PM PST by pissant
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To: Louisiana

You could ask the same thing of a Christian. A committed Christian, will always put his allegiance to God first.

Most Christians, of course, are very patriotic, and while there is always tension between patriotism and religious faith, in the US that tension has been manageable. It is the source of much of its history, and the source of much that is good in this country.


27 posted on 03/14/2006 6:23:58 PM PST by marron
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To: ARealMothersSonForever
The Muslim friend I have who votes Libertarian shared an apartment with my wife before we were married (no, they weren't in a relationship -- they shared the rent and lived in seperate rooms and had seperate bathrooms and such). My wife made out OK. Really. He never tried to murder her, forcibly convert her, or do anything else that would make me worry about him at all. I know that's apparently difficult for a lot of people here to wrap their minds around.
28 posted on 03/14/2006 6:27:51 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: DOGEY
"...You can extract precepts of the Christian faith, especially Catholicism, and conclude that adherence to the religion foreclosed patriotism.
It was only in the 1960's that many in the U.S. believed that the Pope was ready to rule America if Kennedy won the election..."

I was raised Roman Catholic, did my stint as an altar boy, learned the Mass in both Latin and english, fought to stay awake during Novenas, and survived the prescribed years in religion class.

I don't recall ever being taught any dogma that in any way conflicted with being patriotic and a good citizen.

Many of us were rather puzzled when the ignorant newspapermen warned hysterically that elected a Catholic would put the Pope in the White House.

Can some one quote me anything that would support that view?

29 posted on 03/14/2006 6:32:00 PM PST by pickrell (Old dog, new trick...sort of)
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To: Louisiana

At a time when America should be a light unto the nations in hopes of inspiring democracy and human rights across the Muslim world, I'm infuriating by this tired bullshit. A devout Muslim is just as capable as a devout Jew or a devout Christian of being an American patriot and loyal citizen. Don't post every little piece of trash you find cluttering your inbox in FR.


30 posted on 03/14/2006 6:32:03 PM PST by Lejes Rimul (I was right about Iraq all along. Told you so.)
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To: Chena
Does that mean because you won't trust "several very, very patriotic Americans", you would then choose to distrust ALL patriotic Americans? Something to think about. :)

Thanks for bringing this point forward. This is the "Tim McVeigh" counterpoint. I suppose that in some twisted way, I could blame Americans working airport security that did not stop the September 11th groups. Perhaps I could even blame the American flight attendants for failing to properly fight back. Maybe even each American pilot or commanding officer of the aircraft involved must bear the blame for opening the cockpit doors. Yet no, I trusted these Americans (and still do). It was Muslims that had already stated their intent, screaming "allahu Akbar" that committed the acts. And so, I do not trust Muslims; and shall not within my lifetime. Forgiveness and mercy do not trust make.

31 posted on 03/14/2006 6:32:49 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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To: Louisiana
Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?

No. Never.

32 posted on 03/14/2006 6:34:17 PM PST by Jeff Gordon (Is tractus pro pensio.)
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To: VOA
It's possible to read the Koran but treat the Hadiths and such will less authority. The Libertarian Muslim friend I have will observe Ramadan and such but he has a much less restrictive interpretation of what's halal, his son isn't circumcised, and his wife doesn't wear a head scarf. When I've asked him about it, his answer is, "That's not really in the Koran." That suggests to me that it's possible to be a much more Western-friendly and flexible Muslim than the militant Muslims would claim. But that's not really all that surprising since Fundamentalist Christians also have a much narrower idea of what it means to be a Christian than many other Christians do.
33 posted on 03/14/2006 6:36:08 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: pissant
I've never met a more anti-mullah person in my life than 2 Iranians I worked with. And I currently work with a devout Pakistani, who abhores Bin Laden

Since both Pakistanis and Iranians are non-Arab muslims your comments by the Pakistanis and Iranian are understandable. They would be considered inferior muslims (non-Arabs) or apostates by "true believers" of Islam, such as Bin Laden, who wish to establish Islam as the new political and religious world order.
34 posted on 03/14/2006 6:38:49 PM PST by gpapa (Boost FR Traffic! Make FR your home page!)
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To: Louisiana
Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?

If this question is about "allegiance," there is an exception to every rule.

However generally, the answer is NO.

35 posted on 03/14/2006 6:40:53 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Chena
To paint every single Muslim with the same brush is wrong, IMHO

Agree. But Chena, have your brush ready!

36 posted on 03/14/2006 6:43:05 PM PST by Kenny Bunk (OK, how bad we hurt for 2006? Who we running in 2008?)
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To: gpapa
The majority of Muslims in the world, if you count Pakistan, Iran, the Kurds, Afghanistan, Indonesia, Malaysia, etc. are probably not Arabs, either. The problem is militant Arab culture more than Islam. And I'm not sure why we should be accepting bin Laden's definition of what makes a good or bad Muslim instead of those who don't like him.
37 posted on 03/14/2006 6:43:32 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: pissant
The Kurds of Seattle dancing in the streets after the fall of Baghdad saying God Bless George Bush are but one example.

This has everything to do with the Kurds' well-earned hatred of Saddam and nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of patriotism. Did they dance in the streets and say God bless George Bush after the 2004 elections? Why not?

38 posted on 03/14/2006 6:46:00 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Radix
Can a devout Muslim be an American patriot and a loyal citizen?

NO! I don't think so from what I have seen.



Well then you need to see more. How many times have you been to the Middle East? Have you ever read the Gulf News...the UAE newspaper? Do you know any Arabs?
Do you speak any Arabic
I run the Middle east division for my Co. I talk to Arab clients all day. I just got back from Abu-Dabi and Dubai. I go to Jeddah next month.
I'm not trying to nail you ...but the raw ignorance about Arab culture on this website since the port fiasco is really friggin mind blowing.
39 posted on 03/14/2006 6:47:12 PM PST by Blackirish (What kind of name is Plame anyway?)
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To: marron
"You could ask the same thing of a Christian."

Are you kidding? The question as to whether a Christian can be a American patriot and a loyal citizen??

Wow, I've seen some ignorant posts, but this one is a beaut.

40 posted on 03/14/2006 6:47:14 PM PST by F16Fighter
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To: Question_Assumptions

Stop, you're making the bigots look bad!


41 posted on 03/14/2006 6:50:59 PM PST by eyespysomething
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To: ARealMothersSonForever

I think the difference between my opinion and some others is that I do not believe that ALL Muslims are evil. For example, there are Muslims in the U.S. military who serve side by side with our military men and women. I would not dishonor those Muslims who are out there risking their lives to protect and defend this nation by allowing myself to be brainwashed into thinking that EVERY Muslim is our enemy.


42 posted on 03/14/2006 6:51:35 PM PST by Chena (I'm not young enough to know everything.)
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To: hinckley buzzard
This has everything to do with the Kurds' well-earned hatred of Saddam and nothing whatsoever to do with the issue of patriotism.



OK ...they like W cuz we helped them.

That means they are 10 steps ahead of the rest of the world. Even blue state America.
Did you know that W's picture is on the wall of most Kurdish classrooms? Can you say that about a classroom in say...California?

See my previous post and ...travel to Dubai or get to know an Arab before just saying baseless words
43 posted on 03/14/2006 6:54:06 PM PST by Blackirish (What kind of name is Plame anyway?)
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To: eyespysomething
Stop, you're making the bigots look bad!

Why is it that every time I see you on a thread you're taking up for bigots?

44 posted on 03/14/2006 6:54:33 PM PST by SittinYonder (That's how I saw it, and see it still.)
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To: All

The Question is about ALLEGIANCE to the USA.
The Subject of the Sentence is DEVOUT muslims - not nominal.

"Devout" is totally different from "nominal"

nominal Republicans = RINO's
Can a devout republican vote like a democrat or RINO? no.

nominal Christians = hypocrites
Can a devout Christian live like the devil? no.

The keyword "devout" refers to "allegiance"

Therefore,... if one is DEVOUT to Islam, he/she cannot be a LOYAL PATRIOTIC AMERICAN.

He/she must choose his/her ALLEGIANCE.


45 posted on 03/14/2006 6:56:27 PM PST by Louisiana
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To: pickrell

Don't you love when they drag out this comparison?
The IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE is- people ERRONEOUSLY believed that a Catholic President( and I use that term very loosely re. JFK) would be controlled by the Pope. They believed that the Church, through priests and the Vatican, would call the shots.
Of course, NO priest or Pope ever threatened to do any such thing, nor did they call for obedience to the Catholic religion to supersede the laws of this country.
Priests didn't preach against the laws of this country and demand that all become Catholic or face death.
Islam does. Mullahs DO.
In one case the fear was completely unfounded.
In the case of Islam it is not only well-documented, it is openly admitted.


46 posted on 03/14/2006 6:57:28 PM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: pissant

Study the concept of "Taqiyah."

Ie, in Islam it's OK to lie to the Infidels in the furtherance of Religion.


47 posted on 03/14/2006 6:58:48 PM PST by Sometimes A River (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46031)
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To: Louisiana

No.
Contradiction in terms.
Like a vegetarian cannibal.
One thing or the other- THEIR rules, not ours.


48 posted on 03/14/2006 6:59:56 PM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: Question_Assumptions
"That's not really in the Koran."

There over 100 mentions of jihad against unbelievers in the Koran. A few examples follow.

Qur’an 47:4: “When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly”

Qur’an 2:191: “And slay them wherever you catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for persecution is worse than slaughter…”

Qur’an 9:123: “O ye who believe! Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him”

Qur’an 9:73: “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate”

Qur’an 9:29: “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

Islam, a religion of peace. I think not.

49 posted on 03/14/2006 7:00:31 PM PST by gpapa (Boost FR Traffic! Make FR your home page!)
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To: eyespysomething
Stop, you're making the bigots look bad!

I am compelled to wear your badge of "bigot" with pride. Reasonable people are evaluating their preconceived notions, and bouncing these off of their individual experiences. I have traveled internationally, and continue to have dealings with offshore companies. Within the guidelines and constraints that exist today. Name-calling and castigation, especially among fellow Americans, is impolite.

50 posted on 03/14/2006 7:01:35 PM PST by ARealMothersSonForever (Political troglodyte with a partisan axe to grind)
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