Posted on 03/18/2006 6:25:09 PM PST by Trteamer
Fort Collins, Colorado. The local Center For Peace and Justice members marched to downtown Fort Collins carrying empty boxes to rally against the war. Marching in front of them were a bunch of FReepers........
"Back in the early 1980's there was a ceremony in Oakland, CA that made the Evening News that centered around adding a missing apostrophe to the "Childrens Hospital" sign on the outside of the building. I don't know when the place was built, but all of the signage had been in error until that day. It is now, properly, "Children's Hospital".
IF you were to use a comma, then Children's is definitely the proper placement. However, I think of "Childrens" in this case as an adjective, not a possessive. Not meaning to be contrary here, mind you. This is just some of the "fun" I have every day. Where I work, we have Founders Day (no apostrophe) and Parents' Day. I've tried to point out the inconsistency but...
I'll occasionally serenade The Dark Side of the street with, "All we are sayyyyyyyyying, is give war a chaaaaance...."
Our wittiest local Freeper is Fivetoes, who has serenaded them (through his bullhorn) with, "My burqa lies over the ocean. My burqa lies over the sea...."
He once retorted to some woman driving a van (who had just yelled something negative), "YOU'LL LOOK REAL CUTE IN A BURQA! COURSE, YOU WON'T BE ALLOWED TO DRIVE ANY MORE...."
I am soooooo glad you got a picture of that!
I'm glad they were walking and not driving!
Well, since you had me scratching my head, I did some research and here's what I found:
"Children Hospital" could be an adjectival phrase, but "childrens" is nonsense because, without the apostrophe, the "s" would be indicative of a plural and "children" is plural already. So, the name is most correct as "Children's Hospital"; conveying the idea that children should be free to think of the place as theirs in the same way they speak of so many things that they do not actually own as theirs: my street, my room, my house.
Here was one of the more humorous blog entries on a hospital for children in Los Angeles:
http://www.aaronlogan.com/blog/archives/2004/01/
...and just to be excruciatingly complete about it, there's THIS excerpt from an on-line style guide (http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/hfd/pubs/docs/mr/MR041/SG-f0117.htm):
• A noun, whether singular or plural, that does not end in a sibilant (s or z sound) forms the possessive by adding `s.
women's programs
Jack's dog
...
• Do not use an apostrophe after the name of a country, organization, or other group ending in s when actual possession or ownership is not implied.
United Nations conference
Ministry of Forests style guide
editors handbook
childrens hospital
____
So, one ought not render "editors' handbook" or "childrens' hospital" if ownership or possession is not implied. I would add that this rule would be obviated where the organization or group rendered their names properly in the first place: editor's guide; children's hospital.
At least, there's my 2.718282 cents along with that of a few others. At least it's nice to see that there are still people around who care to be precise about the use of language. "Getting it right" in English has become so abysmally underrated these last forty years.
At least it's nice to see that there are still people around who care to be precise about the use of language. "Getting it right" in English has become so abysmally underrated these last forty years.
Where have I heard this before?
I listened to an 60’s song playing on the radio
And I saw this young man carrying a sign sez “Bush has got to go”
Behind him was a woman with a “quit Iraq” poster
And a bunch of long hair hippie-types following behind her.
Some was yelling about the freedom they have to disagree
Some was yelling bout soldiers dying – certainly not free
Some was singing the same song I just heard bout freedom’s cost
And others milled around cos I guess theys plumb just lost
The young man came up to me and told me that I was wrong
And that the truth was that in Iraq, freedom was just a song
And that I ought to join him and his pals in their protest stroll
But I had another idea and started on a roll
Yes, I said, the cost of freedom lies buried in the ground
But who will be the generation that let our country down?
I said many times people tried to take our freedom away
And each time young folks like him stepped into the fray
And many died to keep us free, defending what we are
While many others lived the rest of their lives with the scars
But that most thought it was worth it – for freedom isn’t free
And that young man simply stared in disbelief as he looked at me
But someday young folks will decline to answer the nation’s call
And that sad day will be the day that sees our nation’s fall
You see, I said, the cost of freedom’s buried in the ground
But who will be the generation that let our country down?
For more’n two centuries we have relied upon our nation’s best
In times of trouble they rose to do the job, we passed the test
But more and more young people are afraid to hit the ground
Is this young man the generation that lets our country down?
We look around at those who hate us, those who’s do us harm
Those who will consume our values, our culture – there’s alarm
There is no guarantee we will prevail in every nation’s test
If young folks fail to rise above, to try, and pass the test
The cost of freedom, yes indeed, lies buried in the ground
Will this one be the generation that lets our country down?
And he looked at me with vacant eyes, he didn’t’ hear a word
Freedom, and America to him are just absurd
He turned away, and took his girl, his friends and all the rest
And cowered neath the freedoms that his betters died to bless
The cost of freedom oft be paid, lies buried in the ground
Is this finally the generation that let our country down?
Steven Pudlo All rights reserved
Wow, I'm so impressed with your language skills, particularly your use of the vernacular "friggin'"... it really helps us understand where you place your emphasis. You've convinced me of the importance of a single word!
Not.
I have an apostrophe in my last name. I had a nice party last week because of it in fact. It drives me nuts that in this day and age, so many software programs don't accept an apostrophe. My records are often lost because of this.
With "Founders Day," it's an adjective. With "Parents' Day," it's a possessive. This makes sense, as the day is because of the founders, but for parents.
However, the word "children" is already a plural, so saying "Childrens Hospital" would be akin to saying "Founderss Day"...it's not the correct adjectival form.
And now that I have written my first two paragraphs... I see that HKMk23 has basically already said the same things I did. :-)
I applaud the attempt to encourage FReepers to check their signs more carefully. There are websites that poke fun at signs held by conservatives, and though we all make mistakes, it would be good to minimize it. Self-improvement is one thing that separates us from the Lefties...when faced with criticism, Lefties tend(ed) to be the ones to reply with excuses or defensive counter-attacks. It saddens me if we are to go that path.
And yes, I do use lots of ellipses and start sentences--even paragraphs--with conjunctions! ;-)
ObPunctuation: "This is dedicated to my parents, Jesus and Mary." --Thomas Eleri
"Just say YES to Oxford commas!" --Gondring
Thank you, veterans.
Idea for a FReep sign: "The following display of petulance and whining was made possible by the sacrifice of brave men and women in our military."
Or "Retreat Isn't Peace!"
Or a Protest-Warrior type could carry: "I support my team by suggesting they forfeit each game!"
Or "Hey, Liberals...why don't you go and ask the terrorists for peace, too?"
BETTER MEN & WOMEN THAN YOU HAVE ENTERED THIS BUILDING
"Wow, I'm so impressed with your language skills, particularly your use of the vernacular "friggin'"... it really helps us understand where you place your emphasis. You've convinced me of the importance of a single word!"
Gosh gee, I guess I should have used "darned." Or maybe "you haven't a scintilla of an idea..."
Ah yes, that's much more effective. Thank you ever so much for your sage expostulation.
Well done! liberal protests should always have a disclaimer:
"WARNING: The opinions of these protestors are not those of anyone in their right mind."
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