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Why English is de Rigueur in Many French Boardrooms
Ft,com ^ | 3/25/2006 | Tom Braithwaite in Paris & Chris Smyth in Brussels

Posted on 03/24/2006 7:38:06 PM PST by ex-Texan

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To: BMCDA; ccmay; Marla Starr; NZerFromHK
"Mississippischaufelraddampferkapitänsmützenfabrikbesitzer"

This word is a joke of course, but it is true that words can be combined easily in German. Anyway I am not convinced in the competition about the most numerous vokabular. As already being said, the possibility of combination and syntax is also very important. My personal impression is, that in German it is usually simpler to find more striking and sharp expressions compared to English. On the other hand German or French have many other disadvantages. The syntax and the grammar are -as far as I know- a pure nightmare while English is quite foolproof (It was really interesting to me that our friend from Hongkong, the "NZerFromHK" sees this different, but I remember the painful hours of some American friends who tried themselves in German).

Anyway it does not matter if we speak French, English, Cantonese, Mandarin or German. The person who is speaking the language and his/her abillities to express him/herselves are the decisive factor. English is just perfect as a instrument to connect people like us from different continents and countries. Somehow the the least common denominator for international relations since it is widespread and easy to learn. Besides of that it will never substitute the other big languages since a man of literature will never read Goethe, Lessing, Brecht, Hugo, Camus or de Saint-Exupery in any other language than in the original. Or imagine the nightmare to hear Jacques Brel singing in English. ;-)

81 posted on 03/26/2006 9:13:45 AM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum.)
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Comment #82 Removed by Moderator

To: Atlantic Bridge; BMCDA; ccmay; Marla Starr
Have you guys (and gals :)) seen this article written by a Hong Kong pro-Beijing politician bashing the current HK Chief Executive Donald Tsang? It shows even many educated Hong Kong Chinese's level of English is, well, a bit strange. I know pundits in Hong Kong have jeered this as an example of Chinglish. Let's see how much you can understand. ;-) -------------------------------- http://www.rthk.org.hk/rthk/radio3/lettertohongkong/20050403.html 03/04/2005 Letter to Hong Kong - Choy So Yuk, Legislative Councillor Dear Hong Kong, Hong Kong is really a land of many wonders, a place of endless surprises at the most unexpected moment. I am talking about the leave of former, yes, “ former ” by now, Chief Executive Mr CH Tung, and the elevation of Mr Donald Tsang, our new leader at the Executive Branch. These fast-break changes came at the most unexpected moment when Mr Tung seemed to be riding over the tough tides, heading for a soft sailing after the economy has been obviously bottoming out. Probably, the Central Government was impressed by the results of the Legislative Council elections last year, which showed that Hong Kong people as a whole are rational and considerate. So, there is no much need in erecting unsurmountable barriers between different political camps with different political history. Time and again, the Central leadership has been calling on all forces in Hong Kong to forget and forgive past differences, and build a better Hong Kong. I sincerely hope that our friends at the Democratic Camp will heed the earnest appeal of the Central Government, tear down the barriers and come forward to co-operate with the Central Government and the new SAR administration. Dear Hong Kong, let us kick off a virtuous cycle. All are welcome ! Hong Kong belongs to us all, we are all in the same family, we are all in the same boat. We should not separate us apart from each other. Donald has been generally ruled out for the top job by many well-informed and well-connected quarters. Certainly, he was always a contender, but was viewed mostly as an also-run included for the sake of comprehensiveness of the list. By virtue of the incumbency position, his only real chance was in case of dire emergency. Surely Hong Kong was in no emergency. In fact, we are returning to normalcy in all fronts, and as a whole. On the eve of Hong Kong returning to China on 30 June 1997, Donald was knighted by Prince Charles while Mrs Anson Chan remains a common. It appeared to the general public that Mrs Anson Chan was waiting for her turn to the top while Donald realistically counted himself out. Paradoxes are the order of the day. Exactly because he is ruled out by the public, even by himself that he is picked. Those who were aiming at it with all their minds and hearts, exactly because of their tenacious efforts, were dropped. After the mass demonstrations in July 1 in 2003 and 2004, Beijing appeared to have completed a comprehensive plan for Hong Kong --accelerating integration with China in all material and spiritual fronts. Donald Tsang knows the Hong Kong Establishment and government machinery inside out. That is a tremendous help, could even be an indispensable part, to China ’ s new plan for Hong Kong. In view of this new think, the world has been turned upside down. China forgive and forget. All things seem to be re-defined, re-configurated and re-orientated in the new context of total integration between Hong Kong and the Mainland. This could be a political landscape shift, of the scale and magnitude of a continental shift, reminiscent of China ’ s Open and Reform Policy in the late 70 ’ s. Previously impossibilities become new possibilities, even necessities; normalcy and abnormalcy were reversed; assets liabilities, and liabilities assets. In time of landscape shift, Paradoxes reign supreme. China appears to be departing from China ’ s entrenched position based on ideology of nationalism. Now Effectuality of Governance and economic recovery seem to take precedence over ideology of nationalism and become the core issue overriding other concerns. Loyalty and deference are secondary to competence and performance. After all, Hong Kong is all under control. Loyalty and deference are non-issues, the real issues are competence and performance. A Hong Kong after 155 years of British rule has become a full-fledged quasi-modern society with world-class cosmopolitan attributes. China may now view Hong Kong as a turn-key project and Donald Tsang an experienced operator and repairer. Over the decades, China ’ s economic reforms and modernization were guided by a Deng saying – “ Be it white cat or black cat, a cat that catches mice is a good cat ” . Now, China may be inadvertently taking a page from Deng ’ s pragmatism - - ” Be it British or Chinese, as far as it works. ” Since the new leadership of Hu Jingtao and Wan Jiaobao took over, China ’ s concept and practice of governance seem to be taking up a CEO Model which will better serve China in shifting to international and internal political contexts as she is playing a greater role in the modern world. If China ’ s rethink on Hong Kong was completed one year later, Arthur Li even York Chow might have a better chance of replacing CH Tung, given Arthur ’ s and York ’ s need for time to shape up their competence and performance in leadership. If C H Tung stepped down one year earlier, Henry Tang might get the top job. Donald Tsang ’ s supreme good luck guides him through impossibilities, against all odds. China ’ s rethink on Hong Kong was completed not one year earlier, nor one year later. Paradoxes occur in perfect timing for him. However, the political reality now does not necessarily mean sure win for Donald Tsang. Over the decades, Donald was a staunch supporter of the British rule. It is not a matter of policy only, but a matter of personal style and relations. There seems a cultural gap and emotional distance lying between him and the patriotic forces. While policies and official matters could more easily be forgotten and forgiven, personal style and relations, culture and emotions are not. He was viewed by some in the Pro-Beijing camp as arrogant and disrespecting of the patriotic values they cherished and treasured over the decades, and paid dear prices for. His elevation alienated quite a few in this camp. It is generally held that he enjoys a cultural intimacy with the democratic camp. It is uncertain how much that intimacy, can turn into political support and votes in the Legislative Council. What is apparent is that the Central Government and both opposite camps in Hong Kong would have different, diagonally opposite expectations of him, and he must deliver. Chances are that he cannot please all in one stroke. When that situation arises, different camps might join forces against him. His biggest challenge lies in his rethink on his past 40 years of experience in the government, to see firstly what are the quality differences between the new post and his previous postings, and secondly what are the personal instincts and reflexes that are indispensable and must be kept in the new post, and equally important, if not more important, what must be changed and discarded. Donald the new Chief Executive faces challenges probably still unknown to him, and us, now. In view of the socio-political landscape changes taking place, we at DAB might also face with new challenges now still unknown to us, too CHOY So Yuk --------------------------------------------
83 posted on 03/26/2006 1:39:28 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Atlantic Bridge; BMCDA; ccmay; Marla Starr

Have you guys (and gals :)) seen this article written by a
My apologies for the messed format above. Here's the fixed post:





Hong Kong pro-Beijing politician bashing the current HK Chief Executive Donald Tsang? It shows even many educated Hong Kong Chinese's level of English is, well, a bit strange. I know pundits in Hong Kong have jeered this as an example of Chinglish. Let's see how much you can understand. ;-)




http://www.rthk.org.hk/rthk/radio3/lettertohongkong/20050403.html

03/04/2005

Letter to Hong Kong - Choy So Yuk, Legislative Councillor

Dear Hong Kong,

Hong Kong is really a land of many wonders, a place of endless surprises at the most unexpected moment.

I am talking about the leave of former, yes, “former” by now, Chief Executive Mr CH Tung, and the elevation of Mr Donald Tsang, our new leader at the Executive Branch.

These fast-break changes came at the most unexpected moment when Mr Tung seemed to be riding over the tough tides, heading for a soft sailing after the economy has been obviously bottoming out.

Probably, the Central Government was impressed by the results of the Legislative Council elections last year, which showed that Hong Kong people as a whole are rational and considerate. So, there is no much need in erecting unsurmountable barriers between different political camps with different political history.

Time and again, the Central leadership has been calling on all forces in Hong Kong to forget and forgive past differences, and build a better Hong Kong.

I sincerely hope that our friends at the Democratic Camp will heed the earnest appeal of the Central Government, tear down the barriers and come forward to co-operate with the Central Government and the new SAR administration.

Dear Hong Kong, let us kick off a virtuous cycle. All are welcome! Hong Kong belongs to us all, we are all in the same family, we are all in the same boat. We should not separate us apart from each other.

Donald has been generally ruled out for the top job by many well-informed and well-connected quarters. Certainly, he was always a contender, but was viewed mostly as an also-run included for the sake of comprehensiveness of the list. By virtue of the incumbency position, his only real chance was in case of dire emergency. Surely Hong Kong was in no emergency. In fact, we are returning to normalcy in all fronts, and as a whole.

On the eve of Hong Kong returning to China on 30 June 1997, Donald was knighted by Prince Charles while Mrs Anson Chan remains a common. It appeared to the general public that Mrs Anson Chan was waiting for her turn to the top while Donald realistically counted himself out.

Paradoxes are the order of the day. Exactly because he is ruled out by the public, even by himself that he is picked. Those who were aiming at it with all their minds and hearts, exactly because of their tenacious efforts, were dropped.

After the mass demonstrations in July 1 in 2003 and 2004, Beijing appeared to have completed a comprehensive plan for Hong Kong --accelerating integration with China in all material and spiritual fronts.

Donald Tsang knows the Hong Kong Establishment and government machinery inside out. That is a tremendous help, could even be an indispensable part, to China Â’ s new plan for Hong Kong. In view of this new think, the world has been turned upside down. China forgive and forget. All things seem to be re-defined, re-configurated and re-orientated in the new context of total integration between Hong Kong and the Mainland.

This could be a political landscape shift, of the scale and magnitude of a continental shift, reminiscent of China’s Open and Reform Policy in the late 70’s.

Previously impossibilities become new possibilities, even necessities; normalcy and abnormalcy were reversed; assets liabilities, and liabilities assets. In time of landscape shift, Paradoxes reign supreme.

China appears to be departing from China’s entrenched position based on ideology of nationalism. Now Effectuality of Governance and economic recovery seem to take precedence over ideology of nationalism and become the core issue overriding other concerns.

Loyalty and deference are secondary to competence and performance. After all, Hong Kong is all under control. Loyalty and deference are non-issues, the real issues are competence and performance. A Hong Kong after 155 years of British rule has become a full-fledged quasi-modern society with world-class cosmopolitan attributes. China may now view Hong Kong as a turn-key project and Donald Tsang an experienced operator and repairer.

Over the decades, China’s economic reforms and modernization were guided by a Deng saying -- “ Be it white cat or black cat, a cat that catches mice is a good cat”.

Now, China may be inadvertently taking a page from Deng’s pragmatism -- ”Be it British or Chinese, as far as it works.”

Since the new leadership of Hu Jingtao and Wan Jiaobao took over, China’s concept and practice of governance seem to be taking up a CEO Model which will better serve China in shifting to international and internal political contexts as she is playing a greater role in the modern world.

If China’s rethink on Hong Kong was completed one year later, Arthur Li even York Chow might have a better chance of replacing CH Tung, given Arthur’s and York’s need for time to shape up their competence and performance in leadership. If CH Tung stepped down one year earlier, Henry Tang might get the top job.

Donald Tsang Â’ s supreme good luck guides him through impossibilities, against all odds. China’s rethink on Hong Kong was completed not one year earlier, nor one year later. Paradoxes occur in perfect timing for him.

However, the political reality now does not necessarily mean sure win for Donald Tsang.

Over the decades, Donald was a staunch supporter of the British rule. It is not a matter of policy only, but a matter of personal style and relations. There seems a cultural gap and emotional distance lying between him and the patriotic forces. While policies and official matters could more easily be forgotten and forgiven, personal style and relations, culture and emotions are not. He was viewed by some in the Pro-Beijing camp as arrogant and disrespecting of the patriotic values they cherished and treasured over the decades, and paid dear prices for. His elevation alienated quite a few in this camp.

It is generally held that he enjoys a cultural intimacy with the democratic camp. It is uncertain how much that intimacy, can turn into political support and votes in the Legislative Council.

What is apparent is that the Central Government and both opposite camps in Hong Kong would have different, diagonally opposite expectations of him, and he must deliver. Chances are that he cannot please all in one stroke. When that situation arises, different camps might join forces against him. His biggest challenge lies in his rethink on his past 40 years of experience in the government, to see firstly what are the quality differences between the new post and his previous postings, and secondly what are the personal instincts and reflexes that are indispensable and must be kept in the new post, and equally important, if not more important, what must be changed and discarded.

Donald the new Chief Executive faces challenges probably still unknown to him, and us, now. In view of the socio-political landscape changes taking place, we at DAB might also face with new challenges now still unknown to us, too

CHOY So Yuk



84 posted on 03/26/2006 1:45:07 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Brit_Guy

"(sorry to point that out - it's the petty pendant in me!)"

Late to the party, but I believe you mean "pedant." A pendant is something ladies wear.


85 posted on 03/27/2006 12:13:16 AM PST by Roy Tucker
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To: Roy Tucker

"Late to the party, but I believe you mean "pedant." A pendant is something ladies wear."

I no I meant pendant. Having a discussion about irony, and being pedantic just begged for me to fish with that -knowing someone would bite.

Thanks for obliging!


86 posted on 03/27/2006 8:24:23 AM PST by Brit_Guy
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To: NZerFromHK

French is indeed an extremely difficult language to learn, second only to Slavic languages maybe as far as European languages go. Sorry about that !

In my experience, English has been, by far, the easiest language to learn - even though it too has lots of pitfalls when it comes to pronunciation. Espagnol has roughly been on par with French in terms of difficulty, while I've always found German too logical in its grammar and pronunciation.

I play with the idea of trying to learn either Mandarin Chinese or Japanese, but that will be one hell of a challenge, I suppose !


87 posted on 03/27/2006 10:06:16 AM PST by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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To: Atlantic Friend

I only spent a year in French and we covered present tense for the first year of course. From my friends I know they covered past tense and formal writing in subsequent years, but then I had already dropped the subject. What I learned so far at that time sounded quite easy. No continuous tense and present tense. Big words are heavily borrowed into English, so when you see "preferer" you know it is related to the English word "prefer" (of course "preferer" means "to like" in English).

But pronounciation as you said is tricky - it is notoriously difficult to really remember any sounds you learned at school lessons. I kept forgetting them after I returned home until I bought an audio French lessons pack. Gender is another nightmare - after all, how can France be a "she", hair as "he though plural", and we have haircuts as a "she"?

I found German easy to master after you have English and at least some French lessons. It is logical, and you won't get things like "Why do we use present continuous tense or switch to present tense depending on contexts?" like English.

Chinese would be fun, but Chinese characters require really hard drills in the learning processes. I spent about half an hour each day on Chinese character writing lessons, and this lasted for 8 years from kindergarten and primary school days. Word order is critical to the meaning as well. As a compensating measure there are no tenses, plural changes in nouns, no inflections, no articles, and no prepositions in grammar. Don't know anything about Japanese because I took French instead.


88 posted on 03/27/2006 3:00:08 PM PST by NZerFromHK (Leftism is like honey mixed with arsenic: initially it tastes good, but that will end up killing you)
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To: Brit_Guy

Yeah, I believe you. Your spelling of "know" doesn't help.


89 posted on 03/27/2006 6:35:03 PM PST by Roy Tucker
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To: Atlantic Bridge
English has some pretty long common words too. My favorite is uncharacteristically.
90 posted on 03/27/2006 6:47:50 PM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: Atlantic Friend

French is indeed very difficult to learn, because of the pronounciation. The hardest part is of course comprehending the spoken word.

Comprehending written French is easy, while speaking it is pretty tough. But hearing and understanding, well, it takes a lot of immersion.

I happen to be reviewing my Capretz "French in Action" for a trip in June, and it's amazing to me how much I've forgotten (from disuse).


91 posted on 03/27/2006 6:52:04 PM PST by Petronski (I love Cyborg!)
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To: Roy Tucker

"Yeah, I believe you. Your spelling of "know" doesn't help."

That's too in a row. I wonder if we can get the hatrick.


92 posted on 03/27/2006 10:24:05 PM PST by Brit_Guy
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To: Petronski

Tell me about it ! My Spanish has slided down since I stopped taking classes. Problem is, while I always found books I wanted to read in English, I almost never found good mystery novels or sci-fi in Spanish that made me want to keep practicing it just for the heck of it.


93 posted on 03/27/2006 10:34:12 PM PST by Atlantic Friend (Cursum Perficio)
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