Posted on 03/25/2006 12:11:23 PM PST by Ultra Sonic 007
This is a post on another forum from a Mexican concerning the HR4437 that was passed by Congress and will be signed into law pending the President's seal of approval.
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This is NOT a political slam post, this is NOT going to argue for one side or another. This is a WARNING for those who will be affected by this announcement and a strong urge to either do something about it or prepare for the consequences.
This past week, Congress passed the first of a new slew of immigration laws, law HR4437. While many don't mind them cracking down and appreciate the new temporary worker programs being set up and laws to give many illegal immigrants visas, this new law may ruin the lives of American born citizens who simply LOOK like they may be from another country.
THIS POST ONLY INVOLVES INFORMATION FOR HR4437.
This new law is NATIONWIDE. It requires any immigrants or people with temporary visas to waive any and all rights to due process in case of a criminal charge (no matter how minor, including traffic violations). While this may not seem so bad, this is very bad when you take into consideration that if a police officer pulls you over, he or she has the right to ask any and all passengers for their ID. This law includes that anyone who helps an immigrant or someone who can't prove that they are from the US or have a genuine visa ON THE SPOT can be arrested. This means that if you cannot prove you are legally in the US, EVERYONE in the car can be (and most likely will) arrested and those without proof will be immediately handed over to the office of immigration and be DEPORTED WITHOUT DUE PROCESS OR A TRIAL.
This may not seem all that likely to you guys, but if this law passes, you will have no right to question it AT ALL. If you have no ID or visa on you at that time, you will be denied a lawyer, contact with any family, and immediately deported to whatever country they see fit. Your only available option will be to leave the couontry yourself, and if you do not, you will be put on the wanted list by the police and the next time you suffer a violation, you will pay a higher fine, be arrested, and deported with no options whatsoever, not even to tell your family or get money out of the bank.
Here's the lowdown by each section of the law.
Section 201, 4, iv: Any immigrant or suspected alien who cannot prove legal residence or citizenship can be deported for any criminal activity in the past 15 years regardless of the previous law limiting that date back to Sept. 30'th 1996. (In order to prove citizenship, you must provide a government issues ID a social security card, and a birth certificate. If 2 or all of these are missing or found to be fraudulent, YOU WILL BE DEPORTED, regardless if you legitimately cannot find them or if they were stolen.)
Section 202, Section 274, entirety: If any person (regardless of citizenship) can be confined up to 5 years if he simply DRIVES an illegal immigrant or person who cannot prove citizenship around town, as well as aiding, employing, housing, loaning money to, or helping with financial problems. If the person who is charged can be proven to have financially gained from helping at least 2 such people, then the imprisonment terms can be UP TO TWENTY YEARS IN A STATE PENITENTARY WITH A 3 YEAR MINIMUM, depending on the circumstance. For employers of such people, they can face a prison term of up to 5 years and/or be fined heavily. It continues to say that ANY property that was involved in breaking this law WILL be confiscated to the government, meaning that EMPLOYERS WILL LOSE THEIR BUILDING AND BUSINESS TO THE GOVERNMENT. OTHER PEOPLE CAN LOSE THEIR HOMES, VEHICLES, AND PLACES OF EMPLOYMENT WITH NO POSSIBILITY OR PERMISSION TO ARGUE AGAINST THE MATTER IN ANY STATE OR FEDERAL COURT.
Section 204, section 274 continued: this section allows the suspect to prove his citizenship only in court, but later DENIES THE RIGHT TO DUE PROCESS. Since the right to due process is later denied, the suspect will not be allowed to present his case and will be considered an illegal alien and be deported, as noted in section 208.
Section 208: This section gives the suspect 120 days to exit the country on their own given that they sign A WAIVER TO ANY RIGHTS TO PROTEST THEIR DEPORTATION, REGARDLESS OF ANY EVIDENCE OF CITIZENSHIP OR NATIONALITY PROVEDED AFTER THE FACT. The ruling judge can also shorten this time to however short he sees fit. If the suspect does not leave the country within the designated time, they will be fined $3,000 dollars, will be deported, and will not be allowed entry into the country for 10 years on any visa.
Section 402: The suspect can be detained in ANY penitentiary that the government sees fit, regardless of any additional crimes committed or not. This not limit the amount of time a suspect can be detained before being deported; the previous limits were for those who simply AIDED the suspect.
Section 407: If the country of the suspect's nationality or ethnicity refuses to accept the immigrant, any and all immigration of citizens of that country may be halted until the country in question accepts the deportees. This will give the government an excuse to stop all immigration from countries that may deny a criminal from re-entering their country.
Section 802: The revocation of a genuine visa regardless of circumstance may not be reviewed in any court in the United states and the immigrant will be deported and not allowed to re-enter for 10 years. This means that ANY LEGAL IMMIGRANT who aided a suspected illegal immigrant will suffer the same consequences.
Section 803: Anyone pending deportation may only object to their deportation and attempt to prove their legal right to be in the US if they are not guilty of aiding an illegal immigrant in any of the aforementioned ways may do so in the DC circuit. HOWEVER, this must be done BEFORE THE DEPORTATION, hence the suspect must sign the contract allowing them to leave on their own. This not only LIMITS THEIR ABILITY TO DO SO WITH A TIME LIMIT OF 120 DAYS OR LESS AND MUST FILE WITHIN 60 DAYS, but the point is NULLIFIED SINCE THEY MUST SIGN A WAIVER OF THEIR RIGHT TO PROTEST THEIR DEPORTATION IN ORDER TO LEAVE THEMSELVES. If they try to protest while still imprisoned pending deportation, and thus have not signed the waiver, they have only a matter of days, and since they cannot claim their right to habeus corpus, the court will refuse to consider the appeal since the suspect cannot be present for their appeal. THUS ANYONE WHO WANTS TO APPEAL THEIR DEPORTATION ON THE GROUND OF BEING A US CITIZEN OR A LEGAL IMMIGRANT AND IS INNOCENT OF HELPING AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT OR OTHER SUSPECT CANNOT LEGALLY DO SO AND WILL BE DEPORTED ANYWAY!
And finally, Section 809: Any alien who obtains a non-immigrant visa automatically waives any rights to appeal or argue their case if they are suspected and arrested for any of the above charges. This means that any person with a non-immigrant visa (meaning a temporary one or a work visa) IS DENIED DUE PROCESS IN THE CASE OF BEING CHARGED WITH ANY CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, NO MATTER HOW MINOR (as shown in the earlier sections showing what criminal charges are grounds for deportation, which is actually ANY criminal activity), AND THUS WILL BE DEPORTED WITHOUT POSSIBILITY OF APPEAL.
This may seem unreal or as though it will not affect you, but here is my personal reason for alarm. If my mother is driving me to work, we get pulled over for whatever reason, and I don't happen to have my ID with me, WE BOTH WILL BE ARRESTED AND DEPORTED WITH NO POSSIBILITY OF APPEAL. We wouldn't be able to re-enter the country for 10 years. My grandmother will lose her business, my mother will lose her house and car, and this will happen REGARDLESS OF THE FACT WE CAN PROVE WE ARE CITIZENS.
This new law strips me of my basic right to live in thsi country given to me because I AM A CITIZEN. IT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND HAS NO SAFEGUARDS. EVEN IF THE PERSON THEY CHECK FOR ID IS A CHILD AND WOULD REASONABLY HAVE NO ID ON THEIR PERSON, ANYONE CARING FOR THE CHILD CAN BE DEPORTED, INCLUDING TEACHERS, DAY CARE PROVIDERS, PARENTS, SIBLINGS, DOCTORS, ETC.
All because I am Mexican and can simply be suspected of being an immigrant.
This law can ruin my life, and it can strip me of everything I own and have worked for if I simply don't have my ID when an officer asks it of me FOR ANY REASON, EVEN IF THERE IS NO CRIMINAL CHARGE INVOLVED.
Tomorrow there is a march in LA specifically against this law. I would go were is not for the need for someone to run the business. My mother donated 1,000 dollars and 500 refreshments for marchers tomorrow and will attend herself. If this law is signed, our lives could be changed by a simple slip of not carrying our ID's on our person or being caught with someone who does not have their ID.
There is nothing more I can say, but know this: THIS IS NOT A JOKE, AND THIS LAW HAS ALREADY BEEN PASSED BY CONGRESS. THE LAST STEP IS FOR PRESIDENT BUSH TO SIGN IT. I BEG YOU, SO WHATEVER YOU CAN TO HELP STOP THIS SPECIFIC LAW.
Links for information:
Official recording in the House: http://www.rules.house.gov/109/text/hr4437/109_hr4437_text.pdf
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:XIRm9VQlrnUJ:www.ilrc.org/HR4437.html+HR4437&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1
http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/news/news-rights-immigration-march.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
(This NY Times article leaves out the fact that HR4437 has already passed Congress, but warns of additional laws that will strip rights of those suspected of being immigrants. It does include information about marches against the signing of this law by President Bush.)
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It was only a matter of time. The illegal immigration has been going on virtually uninhibited for so long that, eventually, a law passed to curtail it would be a bit loony.
Although the rights of due process under American law apply only to American citizens (not illegal immigrants), that this passed bill would provide no means by which any immigrant with a visa can provide their ID before being deported for any reason is ludicrous.
Although I am in support of President Bush on most matters, there are some areas where I just can't along. Illegal immigration ("Doing the jobs Americans won't do," eh? Well, they're jobs Americans USED to do before illegal immigrants started doing them for dirt cheap prices that employers wouldn't be able to get away with a normal citizen). Spending (here's a hint; curtailing the growth of spending is not the same as cutting spending). Campaign finance reform (First Amendment issue, bub).
Considering Bush's stance on the illegal immigration issue, it's possible he might veto this. I wouldn't get your hopes up, as Bush has yet to veto a SINGLE bill to cross his desk. Fortunately, if this bill becomes law, the SCOTUS (Supreme Court Of The United States) will probably be brought to decide its constitutionality in court. And the odds of it being struck down in the Supreme Court are good, as the two newest Justices - Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justice Samuel Alito - are both strict interpreters of the Constitution.
I have to say that this whole illegal immigration mess would clear up almost immediately if two things happened.
1) A wall is built, spanning the entire length of the border with Mexico (and I mean a REAL wall, not the dinky barbed wire fences that you use to keep cows in. Something like the wall between Israel and Syria). The one for Canada can come later.
2) Track down those employing illegal immigrants and sentence them with jail time for aiding criminals (which illegal immigrants technically are, as entering the country illegally is a crime). The labor market for illegals would dry up in a heartbeat.
I have to say illegal immigration is a slap in the face to immigrants who came here legally and worked hard to get where they are. Illegals can simply get a fake ID and start working immediately (with help from the ACLU at that). Oh, and they also go to an Emergency Room for everything. They get free care, and the taxpayers have to pick up the bill.
Meh.
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I'm all for stopping illegal immigration, but does this law go a bit too far?
Ping!
Ping.
This past week, Congress passed the first of a new slew of immigration laws, law HR4437. While many don't mind them cracking down and appreciate the new temporary worker programs being set up and laws to give many illegal immigrants visas, this new law may ruin the lives of American born citizens who simply LOOK like they may be from another country.
I agree, this abuse has gone on for long enough. It is time to clean house, and if this President has to be thrown out in order to get it done, then so be it.
Well, number one, the sections of code to which he repeatedly refers are not quotations of the sections, but actually his own interpretation (or whoever he got his talking ponts from) of the code. It's hard for me to get too worked up over what he thinks of the law. If he had actually quoted the law, and then added his criticism of it, I would be more likely to want to listen to what he has to say.
Not too far at all.
They are starting up this profiling crap argument again.
That's exactly why many of my hispanic friends don't want the illegal aliens here. That and they don't want their wages driven down any more than I do.
LOL! Pick that up at the DU again?
How are you going to throw him out? LOL!
The illegal aliens and the criminals who hire them and the criminals who harbor them are getting out in the street making their desires known. It is way past time those of us who support the rule of law and secure borders did the same.
Join Veterans for Secure Borders, The Minuteman Project, Latino Americans for Immigration Reform, Mothers Against Illegal Aliens, and other groups protesting amnesty for these criminals, and demanding the government protect our borders.
http://www.areckoning.com/
FReepers should be at this rally in strength. Saturday, May 6, in Crawford, TX.
Its called impeachment; and while it shouldn't happen for a bogus thing like the anto-terrorist measures that those on the DU want to impeach him for; it should be considered if he continues to harbour the criminal importation and use of illegal labor. He is the nations chief enforcement officer and he has not only failed to enforce the law, but has actively undermined the effort.
a) Don't be a criminal.
b) Don't be an illegal.
You're safe.
Let's repeat that for everyone who might not realize it. For example, the post includes this:
Section 201, 4, iv: Any immigrant or suspected alien who cannot prove legal residence or citizenship can be deported for any criminal activity in the past 15 years regardless of the previous law limiting that date back to Sept. 30'th 1996. (In order to prove citizenship, you must provide a government issues ID a social security card, and a birth certificate. If 2 or all of these are missing or found to be fraudulent, YOU WILL BE DEPORTED, regardless if you legitimately cannot find them or if they were stolen.)
On the other hand, here is the actual text of the referenced Section: `(iv) regardless of whether the conviction was entered before, on, or after September 30, 1996, and notwithstanding any other provision of law (including any effective date).
Obviously, it has nothing to do with people being deported because their identification was stolen. It just says you don't get a pass because your conviction was a certain number of years ago. This is hysterical nonsense. There should be an examination and discussion of this legislation, but this does not provide a vehicle for it.
Later bump
We need to send a strong message to the president, congress, the republican party, main stream media, and the public at large...
There will be NO discussion of "Guest Worker" programs, or immigration reform until the Borders Are Secured..
Border Security is Priority #1....
Not "Economic Vitality"...
Not Immigration Reform...
It's National Security...
Deal with the immigration laws that presently exist and ENFORCE THEM...
National Security depends on Secure Borders..
I work at a highly ranked world known college, (Not Yale, thank God), and while in the break room one day last week, two people who speak Mexican (it's NOT Spanish, ya know), were in there with me. We were all talking in English.
One of them said something to the other in Mexican, as I was walking out, after getting my turn at the coffee machine. The 2nd one said "Oh, it's ok, he'd better learn Spanish."
It took just about ALL my brains to not wheel around throw my coffee at the fella and remind him that the United States of America has a language of the land, and it's NOT Spanish, or Mexican. Even in Texas, we speak our version of English, and if he wants to have communications with me, that's what he WILL speak.
I was very very very VERY ticked off, and it did in fact, ruin my otherwise wonderful day.
While no one is much more anti-immigration than I, why don't we have a small wager on your line of thought?
I'll bet $300 that he finishes out his term unless he dies or falls ill.
Thats $100 for each year left of his term.
Just for kicks, I will pay triple if he is impeached and removed from office.
How are those odds? To be sure, I'm all for wagers above that amount. 8^) Thrown out. LOL!
"CAN SHALL be deported for ANY CRIMINAL ACT in the last 15 years."
See the law can be made better.
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