Skip to comments.Exodus National Ex-Gay Conference 6/27 to 7/2 2006
Posted on 03/26/2006 9:03:30 AM PST by dcnd9
click here to read article
From the linked website:
That could cause some real comedy, I admit.
So. What's your point?
I just thought it was odd, a little. I read the whole site about the conference. The more-or-less random roommate matching seems a little dangerous to the movement, at least to me.
I can see some odd situations arising.
OK. Suppose two people who are struggling with their homosexuality are picked to room together. I can see where that arrangement might interfere with their goal to stop being homosexual.
Or, imagine someone coming to this conference with the idea of being a disruptor, and getting roomed with someone who is struggling with all of this.
The situations really seem to suggest themselves, I think.
Attendees having gay sex with other attendees. Do you need a diagram?
I believe the other poster is assuming that I'm somehow mocking this organization. While I feel that it fails more often than it succeeds, It doesn't bother me that some gay people turn to such organizations in an attempt to change their orientation.
I'm not mocking. I'm just pointing out that randomly assigning roommates at such an event seems to me to be a mistake. Perhaps they have some sort of vetting process, but it sure doesn't appear in their housing statement.
Wow! Gays having sex on the first day with complete strangers an automatic done deal? Who'd a thunk? /sarcasm.
Like I said. I read the website. Did you? Here are a couple of paragraphs from their "Who Should Attend" page. Not everyone coming to this conference is an "Ex-Gay," as you put it:
Right, uh huh, just make sure that they use protection.
No, not a done deal, just likely.
The same logic would lead to recovering alcoholics meeting in a bar. Ex-gays generally face a lifelong struggle not to act on their desires; success is when they're able to do so.
"From what I've read of your comments on the homosexual agenda threads, you sure know a lot about the subject and show a keen interest for someone that neither opposes or supports the homosexual agenda.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.
Most of the homo trolls have been Zotted and no longer troll these threads. There are only a couple of you left. Tread lightly."
You said; "While I feel that it fails more often than it succeeds."
What are you basing this assumption on?
My posts stand for themselves.
While you tend to be somewhat less caustic than the typical homosexual agenda promoter, your posts do fall mainly on the pro-homosexual side.
I'm here. I've been posting here for a long time.
Seriously though, I do see how the rooming arrangment could be a strugglinbg point for some. The conference needs to either rethink this or vet the attendees carefully. Of course, the typical person attending this conference will be interested in overcomming this disease so they will be more motivated to not succumb to temptation while in their room. Therefore, I don't think immoral activity will be a huge problem.
Therefore, to belong to a group that lumps Christians together with people who also used to share their same sin, is a problem, since they are now NEW CREATURES and not, supposedly, sinning in the same way that they sinned before.
To have a convention where the only glue between the people is their former sin -- or their "dead man in Christ" -- is a problem.
I have found very few people who get delivered from all their sicknesses upon becomming saved. Most are eventually delivered as they are transformed into a likeness of Christ. I've known smokers who smoked for years after getting saved. Likewise there are those who suffer from Same-sex Attraction Disorder who struggle with it for years after their salvation experience.
While SAD is a sin it is also a mental disease. God can and does heal miraculously. But not everyone gets a miraculous healing. Some need to work through their healing for some reason. Perhaps so they can help others be healed?
I see no problem with those who are further along in their healing helping those who are just starting. That's how Christianity works. Those who are closer to Christ help those who aren't there yet get there.
"While you tend to be somewhat less caustic than the typical homosexual agenda promoter, your posts do fall mainly on the pro-homosexual side."
"Christians are "new creatures n Christ."
Therefore, to belong to a group that lumps Christians together with people who also used to share their same sin, is a problem, since they are now NEW CREATURES and not, supposedly, sinning in the same way that they sinned before."
From my understanding, a lot of Christians sometimes engage in sinful behavior. Becoming a Christian does not automatically end all sinful behavior, as experience will easily demonstrate.
The rooming arrangements here, if not carefully attended to, may cause unneeded temptation, and could possibly cause some of the attendees to fail in their resolve.
"What are you basing this assumption on?
There are several statistical studies of Exodus and other groups of its nature that demonstrate that the process is often not successful in turning homosexuals into straight folks.
That's not a condemnation of their program. Most such programs, either drug rehab or others, have a fairly high failure rate. It just comes with the territory.
We don't hate the homosexual either, neither does the ex-gay [and who better knows the gay person than the exgay] We don't minimize the sinful nature of homosexual acts either.
Whatever gays choose to do in private is their business. It's the forcing of acceptance of said behavior and trying to legislate it as normal, a so called civil right, that is the poblem. It is chosen sexual behavior.
Can you post these links to back this up?
"Not a threat at all. Just good advice."
I see. Well, since I've been a regular poster on Free Republic for two more years than you have, and have never even been suspended, I guess I'm doing OK.
Your advice is noted, however. I believe I'll continue on as always, though. It's worked out OK for me so far.
I have a bit of advice for you, as well: Watch the name-calling. Calling people trolls is a quick way to get your posts deleted. I've found that avoiding name-calling is a really good idea here.
"We don't hate the homosexual either, neither does the ex-gay [and who better knows the gay person than the exgay] We don't minimize the sinful nature of homosexual acts either.
OK. Then I have no argument with you at all. Please go back to the beginning of this thread. I'm not taking any pro-homosexual position in this thread. I'm just saying that the housing arrangements for this conference have the potential for causing unnecessary problems.
Were I putting on the conference, I think I'd avoid any sort of random roommate assignments from the get-go.
"Can you post these links to back this up?
Not without a good deal of searching. This is information gleaned from many sources, I'm afraid, and not something I have links for at hand.
Sadly, I don't have time today to do the searching, or I'd be happy to.
I'm sure they have set procedures and guidelines to prevent this possibility. They've been in the business a long time.
Also can you post links backing up
"several statistical studies of Exodus and other groups"
Here's an interesting page from the Exodus-International site itself. It's basically a discussion of one of the early founders of the organization, who ended up forming a gay relationship with another Exodus person.
The main thing to look at here is the stuff at the end of the article, where the author more or less admits that they don't suceed in the majority of cases.
Remember, this is Exodus, itself, speaking.
Their success (and failure) rate is pretty typical of all sorts of programs designed to change behavior, such as drug and alcohol rehab. While they do get results, it's often with a discouragingly-small percentage of those who enter the program.
Changing behavior is difficult.
Phooey! Here's the link:
Please see the link in #34.
Exodus is working on their own statistical studies. I don't know when they'll be released.
Here's another item from the Exodus site, itself. It's part of their FAQ. Note their own statement near the end that changes from 30-50% are "possible." I could find other links, but they would be suspect for you, I imagine, since they are not from the Exodus site. Link is at the end of the quoted text:
"The surveys and studies are being done and information is being complied. I believe we will all see that the statistics for change are much higher than 30%. In the past 10 years First Stone Ministries has noted that the men and women who truly work through the program and wholeheartedly apply themselves reveal that the percentage rate of people who are able to overcome the homosexual lifestyle is much greater than 50%." 1999
That was 1999. Probably even higher today 2006 due to the knowledge "You have the choice to change IF you want to change" is no longer a secret.
Funny you should mention it. I've been labeled with all sorts of titles. For example: "Right wing nut job", "Fundamentalist ignorant homophobic closed minded redneck" "Religious Nazi" just to name a few, add vulgarity for emphasis and you get the idea.
I just grow a thick skin and chalk it up to the anonymous environment of the Internet and dismiss it out of hand.
I can tell you this though, I don't have an obsession or predilection to go around on EVERY SINGLE thread with a certain topic that I claim neutrality on and play the devil's advocate. ;^) Maybe ther's a name for that behavior???? LMAO!
I think the bottom line is that the statistics are really not in, and never will be. Yes, some people are able to do something about changing their sexual activity preference. Others are not.
I doubt very much that the percentage of those who start any of these programs and successfully change their sexual orientation is anywhere near 50%. Your First Stone information qualifies their statement very strictly, limiting their success assessments to those who are the most active in "working the program." Assessed from the numbers who "start" the program, their estimates would, no doubt, be much lower.
It's the same in every behavior modification program, I'm afraid.
ther's = there's
Sticky E key. LOL
"Funny you should mention it. I've been labeled with all sorts of titles. For example: "Right wing nut job", "Fundamentalist ignorant homophobic closed minded redneck" "Religious Nazi" just to name a few, add vulgarity for emphasis and you get the idea."
Here's an article from a few days ago critquing Dr. Spitzer's study on former homosexuals:
Some interesting excerpts:
"Of particular interest was the finding that problematic masculinity may be more amenable to sexual reorientation interventions than an absent/weak paternal bond. This finding suggests that homosexual attractions may be more related to gender (a sense of maleness or masculinity) than to sexuality itself. Also, it may suggest that treatment aimed at strengthening gender identity may be more efficacious than focusing on strengthening parental bonds."
"Thus Karten's study, along with others, adds to the body of clinical and research data that conclude that homosexuality is more fluid than fixed. Indeed, the quality of such research, mentored by seasoned professionals, provides scientific evidence to refute the repeated claims of The American Psychological Association (APA) that there is "no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of reparative therapy as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation." The Spitzer study provided clear evidence to the contrary. And now, the Karten study expands on the Spitzer study by identifying factors that are associated with treatment success.
With such data providing support for the efficacy of reparative therapy with some individuals, the question of the ethics of APA discouraging such therapy now becomes center stage. No longer can the opponents of reparative therapy state there is no scientific evidence of its effectiveness. More importantly, as reparative therapy is studied, perhaps it is time for APA to insist on data to support the efficacy of other therapies, including gay affirmative therapy.
The ethical route demands the following: clients should be informed of the possibility that they may be disappointed if therapy (for any reason) does not succeed, so they can make a rational decision whether or not enter therapy. Offering such a choice should be fundamental to any therapeutic endeavor, and is central to client autonomy and client self-determination. In fact, it is clearly unethical for any professional, informed by the literature and guided by evidence-based interventions, to deny the choice of therapy to those who are unhappy with their same-sex attractions and seek therapy to diminish those attractions.
Though such research into sexual reorientation may be viewed as politically incorrect, no longer can it be ignored. Sociopolitical concerns must not interfere with the scientist's freedom to research any reasonable hypothesis, or to explore the efficacy of any reasonable treatment."
I would also ask this question (rhetorically; I don't expect anyone to answer it) - why are some people so opposed to the fact that there are indeed former homosexuals?
It took 30 yrs for AA to become validated. Alcoholic behavior could be overcome. You did not have to succumb because of genetic predisposition. You had a responsibility in the chosen behavior. Same for SS.
SSA can be overcome. SS can be overcome.
You don't have to be gay.
This is why they are afraid of ex-gay truth.
these are FORMER homosexuals.
The existence of former homosexuals removes every bit of foundation for the "gay rights" movement.
Whatever you say. I'd still make sure they use protection.
But the poor statistics about recovery from homosexuality or drug addiction or depression or any other mental health problem have more to do with the sad sate of mental health care than anything else. These statistics are in no ways a comment on whether the condition itself (homosexuality or any mental health disorder) is "curable" or amenable to treatment.
Your experience is worth more than all the verbiage upthread.
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