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Exodus National Ex-Gay Conference 6/27 to 7/2 2006
http://www.exodusfreedom.org/freedom/index2.cfm ^ | 3/26/06

Posted on 03/26/2006 9:03:30 AM PST by dcnd9

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1 posted on 03/26/2006 9:03:34 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: dcnd9

From the linked website:



Roommate Requests

We at Exodus International understand the nature of our conference and the financial constraints of many of our delegates. Exodus will provide a service to assist those delegates who would like to take advantage of the lower costs of sharing a room. If you have a roommate preference or spouse, please enter that person’s name on the registration form. Unless you specify a roommate, Exodus will assign a roommate to your room.

If your spouse is not registering for the conference, please contact Exodus before you complete your registration. Non-registered guests must pay the $250 fee for housing and meals for the week.

The Exodus Youth department will assist in assigning rooms to student delegates between the ages of 18 and 25 to the same building and hall.


2 posted on 03/26/2006 9:12:54 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan

That could cause some real comedy, I admit.


3 posted on 03/26/2006 9:17:54 AM PST by SteveMcKing
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To: MineralMan

So. What's your point?


4 posted on 03/26/2006 9:43:06 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

I just thought it was odd, a little. I read the whole site about the conference. The more-or-less random roommate matching seems a little dangerous to the movement, at least to me.

I can see some odd situations arising.


5 posted on 03/26/2006 9:44:55 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
I can see some odd situations arising.

For example?

6 posted on 03/26/2006 9:51:14 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

OK. Suppose two people who are struggling with their homosexuality are picked to room together. I can see where that arrangement might interfere with their goal to stop being homosexual.

Or, imagine someone coming to this conference with the idea of being a disruptor, and getting roomed with someone who is struggling with all of this.

The situations really seem to suggest themselves, I think.


7 posted on 03/26/2006 9:54:28 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K
For example?

Attendees having gay sex with other attendees. Do you need a diagram?

8 posted on 03/26/2006 9:54:41 AM PST by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: Alter Kaker; DirtyHarryY2K

I believe the other poster is assuming that I'm somehow mocking this organization. While I feel that it fails more often than it succeeds, It doesn't bother me that some gay people turn to such organizations in an attempt to change their orientation.

I'm not mocking. I'm just pointing out that randomly assigning roommates at such an event seems to me to be a mistake. Perhaps they have some sort of vetting process, but it sure doesn't appear in their housing statement.


9 posted on 03/26/2006 9:59:34 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Alter Kaker
Attendees having gay sex with other attendees. Do you need a diagram?

Wow! Gays having sex on the first day with complete strangers an automatic done deal? Who'd a thunk? /sarcasm.

10 posted on 03/26/2006 10:06:28 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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To: MineralMan
You forget. This is a conference for Ex-Gays. Not Gays.
11 posted on 03/26/2006 10:09:41 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

Like I said. I read the website. Did you? Here are a couple of paragraphs from their "Who Should Attend" page. Not everyone coming to this conference is an "Ex-Gay," as you put it:




Delegates

Men and women in conflict with their same-sex attractions and who are looking for a way out.
You are not alone! This is your chance to meet people who understand. Every year, more than half of our delegates experience this conference for the first time. We have prepared dozens of workshops just for you, and our teachers know what they are talking about. So come, be equipped, and learn from others who understand.

Christians still struggling with unwanted homosexual thoughts or behavior, and need encouragement.
Join more than one thousand men and women at our conference -- those starting the journey out of homosexuality, those in the middle and those who have been free for decades. Our Freedom conference is an excellent opportunity to get reacquainted with your Exodus friends and loved ones. Our community worship time is powerful and can be life-changing. So come, meet with God, and be renewed.



12 posted on 03/26/2006 10:12:10 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K
You forget. This is a conference for Ex-Gays. Not Gays.

Right, uh huh, just make sure that they use protection.

13 posted on 03/26/2006 10:13:18 AM PST by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K
Gays having sex on the first day with complete strangers an automatic done deal?

No, not a done deal, just likely.

14 posted on 03/26/2006 10:14:27 AM PST by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

The same logic would lead to recovering alcoholics meeting in a bar. Ex-gays generally face a lifelong struggle not to act on their desires; success is when they're able to do so.


15 posted on 03/26/2006 10:16:37 AM PST by HostileTerritory
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To: AFA-Michigan; AggieCPA; Agitate; AliVeritas; AllTheRage; An American In Dairyland; Annie03; ...
Homosexual Agenda Ping!

FReepmail if you want on/off the ping list.

Free Republic homosexual agenda keyword search

16 posted on 03/26/2006 10:44:48 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: DirtyHarryY2K; Admin Moderator

"From what I've read of your comments on the homosexual agenda threads, you sure know a lot about the subject and show a keen interest for someone that neither opposes or supports the homosexual agenda.
Methinks thou dost protest too much.

Most of the homo trolls have been Zotted and no longer troll these threads. There are only a couple of you left. Tread lightly."




I'm sorry. Is that a threat? I am neither pro or anti homosexuality. I call each situation as I see it. I neither blame homosexuals for all the ills of this country or excuse them for problems they cause.

My posts stand for themselves. I'm here. I've been posting here for a long time. Please save your threats for someone else. I am no troll.


18 posted on 03/26/2006 11:02:59 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dcnd9
The only problem I have with Exodus is an obvious Christian one:

Christians are "new creatures n Christ."

Therefore, to belong to a group that lumps Christians together with people who also used to share their same sin, is a problem, since they are now NEW CREATURES and not, supposedly, sinning in the same way that they sinned before.

To have a convention where the only glue between the people is their former sin -- or their "dead man in Christ" -- is a problem.
19 posted on 03/26/2006 11:11:43 AM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: MineralMan

You said; "While I feel that it fails more often than it succeeds."

What are you basing this assumption on?


20 posted on 03/26/2006 11:11:57 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: MineralMan
I am neither pro or anti homosexuality. I call each situation as I see it. I neither blame homosexuals for all the ills of this country or excuse them for problems they cause.

My posts stand for themselves.

While you tend to be somewhat less caustic than the typical homosexual agenda promoter, your posts do fall mainly on the pro-homosexual side.

I'm here. I've been posting here for a long time.

Newbie. :^)

Seriously though, I do see how the rooming arrangment could be a strugglinbg point for some. The conference needs to either rethink this or vet the attendees carefully. Of course, the typical person attending this conference will be interested in overcomming this disease so they will be more motivated to not succumb to temptation while in their room. Therefore, I don't think immoral activity will be a huge problem.

21 posted on 03/26/2006 11:12:20 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: Californiajones
Christians are "new creatures n Christ."

Therefore, to belong to a group that lumps Christians together with people who also used to share their same sin, is a problem, since they are now NEW CREATURES and not, supposedly, sinning in the same way that they sinned before.

To have a convention where the only glue between the people is their former sin -- or their "dead man in Christ" -- is a problem.

I have found very few people who get delivered from all their sicknesses upon becomming saved. Most are eventually delivered as they are transformed into a likeness of Christ. I've known smokers who smoked for years after getting saved. Likewise there are those who suffer from Same-sex Attraction Disorder who struggle with it for years after their salvation experience.

While SAD is a sin it is also a mental disease. God can and does heal miraculously. But not everyone gets a miraculous healing. Some need to work through their healing for some reason. Perhaps so they can help others be healed?

I see no problem with those who are further along in their healing helping those who are just starting. That's how Christianity works. Those who are closer to Christ help those who aren't there yet get there.

22 posted on 03/26/2006 11:18:19 AM PST by John O (God Save America (Please))
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To: John O

"While you tend to be somewhat less caustic than the typical homosexual agenda promoter, your posts do fall mainly on the pro-homosexual side."




Not really. My arguments are generally with those who extend illogical arguments against homosexuals...those who equate homsexuals as a class of people who are "satan's spawn" or some such.

I know some homosexual people. They seem to be productive, friendly folks. None of them have ever done anything that would engender my hatred. So, I defend homosexual "people," rather than universally condemming them.

Myself, I'm not gay, have never had any homosexual attractions, and have never performed any homosexual acts.

I'm neither pro-homosexual or anti-homosexual. I just don't like seeing entire groups lumped together, whatever the subject.

I just found this particular conference's rooming arrangements to be a little iffy, and mentioned it.


23 posted on 03/26/2006 11:19:59 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: Californiajones

"Christians are "new creatures n Christ."

Therefore, to belong to a group that lumps Christians together with people who also used to share their same sin, is a problem, since they are now NEW CREATURES and not, supposedly, sinning in the same way that they sinned before."

From my understanding, a lot of Christians sometimes engage in sinful behavior. Becoming a Christian does not automatically end all sinful behavior, as experience will easily demonstrate.

The rooming arrangements here, if not carefully attended to, may cause unneeded temptation, and could possibly cause some of the attendees to fail in their resolve.

It happens.


24 posted on 03/26/2006 11:22:50 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dcnd9

"What are you basing this assumption on?
"

There are several statistical studies of Exodus and other groups of its nature that demonstrate that the process is often not successful in turning homosexuals into straight folks.

That's not a condemnation of their program. Most such programs, either drug rehab or others, have a fairly high failure rate. It just comes with the territory.


25 posted on 03/26/2006 11:24:37 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan
Not a threat at all. Just good advice. Based on the long list of former homo agenda cheerleaders masquerading as FReepers that are no longer with us. ;-)
26 posted on 03/26/2006 11:25:31 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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To: MineralMan

We don't hate the homosexual either, neither does the ex-gay [and who better knows the gay person than the exgay] We don't minimize the sinful nature of homosexual acts either.

Whatever gays choose to do in private is their business. It's the forcing of acceptance of said behavior and trying to legislate it as normal, a so called civil right, that is the poblem. It is chosen sexual behavior.


27 posted on 03/26/2006 11:27:05 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: MineralMan


Can you post these links to back this up?


28 posted on 03/26/2006 11:27:54 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

"Not a threat at all. Just good advice."

I see. Well, since I've been a regular poster on Free Republic for two more years than you have, and have never even been suspended, I guess I'm doing OK.

Your advice is noted, however. I believe I'll continue on as always, though. It's worked out OK for me so far.

I have a bit of advice for you, as well: Watch the name-calling. Calling people trolls is a quick way to get your posts deleted. I've found that avoiding name-calling is a really good idea here.


29 posted on 03/26/2006 11:30:38 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dcnd9

"We don't hate the homosexual either, neither does the ex-gay [and who better knows the gay person than the exgay] We don't minimize the sinful nature of homosexual acts either.
"

OK. Then I have no argument with you at all. Please go back to the beginning of this thread. I'm not taking any pro-homosexual position in this thread. I'm just saying that the housing arrangements for this conference have the potential for causing unnecessary problems.

Were I putting on the conference, I think I'd avoid any sort of random roommate assignments from the get-go.


30 posted on 03/26/2006 11:32:38 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dcnd9

"Can you post these links to back this up?
"

Not without a good deal of searching. This is information gleaned from many sources, I'm afraid, and not something I have links for at hand.

Sadly, I don't have time today to do the searching, or I'd be happy to.


31 posted on 03/26/2006 11:34:17 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan

I'm sure they have set procedures and guidelines to prevent this possibility. They've been in the business a long time.

Also can you post links backing up
"several statistical studies of Exodus and other groups"


32 posted on 03/26/2006 11:35:00 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: dcnd9

Here's an interesting page from the Exodus-International site itself. It's basically a discussion of one of the early founders of the organization, who ended up forming a gay relationship with another Exodus person.

The main thing to look at here is the stuff at the end of the article, where the author more or less admits that they don't suceed in the majority of cases.

Remember, this is Exodus, itself, speaking.

Their success (and failure) rate is pretty typical of all sorts of programs designed to change behavior, such as drug and alcohol rehab. While they do get results, it's often with a discouragingly-small percentage of those who enter the program.

Changing behavior is difficult.


33 posted on 03/26/2006 11:40:44 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dcnd9

Phooey! Here's the link:

http://www.exodus-international.org/library_Society_12.shtml


34 posted on 03/26/2006 11:41:04 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dcnd9

Please see the link in #34.

Exodus is working on their own statistical studies. I don't know when they'll be released.


35 posted on 03/26/2006 11:42:06 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: dcnd9

Here's another item from the Exodus site, itself. It's part of their FAQ. Note their own statement near the end that changes from 30-50% are "possible." I could find other links, but they would be suspect for you, I imagine, since they are not from the Exodus site. Link is at the end of the quoted text:




What's your "success rate" in changing gays into straights?

What you are really asking is whether there is realistic hope for change for men and women who do not want their sexual orientation to be homosexual. And the answer to that is yes!

In 1 Corinthians 6:9–11, Paul gives a list of all kinds of sinners that will not inherit the kingdom of God, including those that practice homosexuality. But he goes on to say, "and that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." Some Corinthian Christians had formerly been homosexuals, but now were counted among the saints. Now, that's good news indeed!

No one is saying that change is easy. It requires strong motivation, hard work, and perseverance. But we find hundreds of former homosexuals who have found a large degree of change--attaining abstinence from homosexual behaviors, lessening of homosexual temptations, strengthening their sense of masculine or feminine identity, correcting distorted styles of relating with members of the same and opposite gender. Some former homosexuals marry and some don't, but marriage is not the measuring stick; spiritual growth and obedience are.

On the statistical side, careful reviews of research studies on sexual orientation change suggest that real change is indeed possible. Studies suggesting change rates in the range of 30-50% are not unusual, although "success rates" vary considerably and the measurement of change is problematic.

http://exodus.to/exodus_faqs_success.shtml


36 posted on 03/26/2006 11:49:11 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: MineralMan

"The surveys and studies are being done and information is being complied. I believe we will all see that the statistics for change are much higher than 30%. In the past 10 years First Stone Ministries has noted that the men and women who truly work through the program and wholeheartedly apply themselves reveal that the percentage rate of people who are able to overcome the homosexual lifestyle is much greater than 50%." 1999

That was 1999. Probably even higher today 2006 due to the knowledge "You have the choice to change IF you want to change" is no longer a secret.


37 posted on 03/26/2006 11:49:21 AM PST by dcnd9
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To: MineralMan
Watch the name-calling

Funny you should mention it. I've been labeled with all sorts of titles. For example: "Right wing nut job", "Fundamentalist ignorant homophobic closed minded redneck" "Religious Nazi" just to name a few, add vulgarity for emphasis and you get the idea.

I just grow a thick skin and chalk it up to the anonymous environment of the Internet and dismiss it out of hand.

I can tell you this though, I don't have an obsession or predilection to go around on EVERY SINGLE thread with a certain topic that I claim neutrality on and play the devil's advocate. ;^) Maybe ther's a name for that behavior???? LMAO!

38 posted on 03/26/2006 11:50:03 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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To: dcnd9

I think the bottom line is that the statistics are really not in, and never will be. Yes, some people are able to do something about changing their sexual activity preference. Others are not.

I doubt very much that the percentage of those who start any of these programs and successfully change their sexual orientation is anywhere near 50%. Your First Stone information qualifies their statement very strictly, limiting their success assessments to those who are the most active in "working the program." Assessed from the numbers who "start" the program, their estimates would, no doubt, be much lower.

It's the same in every behavior modification program, I'm afraid.


39 posted on 03/26/2006 11:56:20 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

ther's = there's

Sticky E key. LOL


40 posted on 03/26/2006 11:56:30 AM PST by DirtyHarryY2K ("Ye shall know them by their fruits" ;-))
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

"Funny you should mention it. I've been labeled with all sorts of titles. For example: "Right wing nut job", "Fundamentalist ignorant homophobic closed minded redneck" "Religious Nazi" just to name a few, add vulgarity for emphasis and you get the idea."




That may be, but you've not been so labeled by me. I don't do that. As for your suggestion that threads about homosexuality are all I comment on, well, that's just not true. I'm active in several areas.


41 posted on 03/26/2006 11:57:47 AM PST by MineralMan (godless atheist)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K

Here's an article from a few days ago critquing Dr. Spitzer's study on former homosexuals:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1598889/posts

Some interesting excerpts:

"Of particular interest was the finding that problematic masculinity may be more amenable to sexual reorientation interventions than an absent/weak paternal bond. This finding suggests that homosexual attractions may be more related to gender (a sense of maleness or masculinity) than to sexuality itself. Also, it may suggest that treatment aimed at strengthening gender identity may be more efficacious than focusing on strengthening parental bonds."

"Thus Karten's study, along with others, adds to the body of clinical and research data that conclude that homosexuality is more fluid than fixed. Indeed, the quality of such research, mentored by seasoned professionals, provides scientific evidence to refute the repeated claims of The American Psychological Association (APA) that there is "no published scientific evidence supporting the efficacy of reparative therapy as a treatment to change one's sexual orientation." The Spitzer study provided clear evidence to the contrary. And now, the Karten study expands on the Spitzer study by identifying factors that are associated with treatment success.

With such data providing support for the efficacy of reparative therapy with some individuals, the question of the ethics of APA discouraging such therapy now becomes center stage. No longer can the opponents of reparative therapy state there is no scientific evidence of its effectiveness. More importantly, as reparative therapy is studied, perhaps it is time for APA to insist on data to support the efficacy of other therapies, including gay affirmative therapy.

The ethical route demands the following: clients should be informed of the possibility that they may be disappointed if therapy (for any reason) does not succeed, so they can make a rational decision whether or not enter therapy. Offering such a choice should be fundamental to any therapeutic endeavor, and is central to client autonomy and client self-determination. In fact, it is clearly unethical for any professional, informed by the literature and guided by evidence-based interventions, to deny the choice of therapy to those who are unhappy with their same-sex attractions and seek therapy to diminish those attractions.

Though such research into sexual reorientation may be viewed as politically incorrect, no longer can it be ignored. Sociopolitical concerns must not interfere with the scientist's freedom to research any reasonable hypothesis, or to explore the efficacy of any reasonable treatment."


I would also ask this question (rhetorically; I don't expect anyone to answer it) - why are some people so opposed to the fact that there are indeed former homosexuals?


42 posted on 03/26/2006 3:22:59 PM PST by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: little jeremiah

It took 30 yrs for AA to become validated. Alcoholic behavior could be overcome. You did not have to succumb because of genetic predisposition. You had a responsibility in the chosen behavior. Same for SS.

SSA can be overcome. SS can be overcome.

You don't have to be gay.

This is why they are afraid of ex-gay truth.


43 posted on 03/26/2006 5:01:40 PM PST by dcnd9
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To: Alter Kaker

these are FORMER homosexuals.


44 posted on 03/26/2006 5:03:34 PM PST by balch3
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To: dcnd9

Exactly so.

The existence of former homosexuals removes every bit of foundation for the "gay rights" movement.


45 posted on 03/26/2006 7:02:22 PM PST by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: balch3
these are FORMER homosexuals.

Whatever you say. I'd still make sure they use protection.

46 posted on 03/26/2006 7:40:49 PM PST by Alter Kaker ("Whatever tears one sheds, in the end one always blows one's nose." - Heine)
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To: MineralMan
OK. Suppose two people who are struggling with their homosexuality are picked to room together. I can see where that arrangement might interfere with their goal to stop being homosexual.

Are you saying that people who are or have been sufferers of same-sex attraction disorder are somehow inherently less able to control their sexual urges and bunking in the same room as someone of the same sex might cause a problem?

I'm saving this thread for the next "gays in the military" thread that comes up. I can guess which side of that argument you're on...
47 posted on 03/27/2006 8:37:59 PM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: DirtyHarryY2K; MineralMan
I can tell you this though, I don't have an obsession or predilection to go around on EVERY SINGLE thread with a certain topic that I claim neutrality on and play the devil's advocate. ;^) Maybe ther's a name for that behavior???? LMAO!

If there's not, then there should be. Perhaps we can call it "MineralManity."
48 posted on 03/27/2006 8:41:54 PM PST by Antoninus (The only reason you're alive today is because your parents were pro-life.)
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To: MineralMan; DirtyHarryY2K; little jeremiah
I believe the other poster is assuming that I'm somehow mocking this organization. While I feel that it fails more often than it succeeds, It doesn't bother me that some gay people turn to such organizations in an attempt to change their orientation.

I'm not mocking. I'm just pointing out that randomly assigning roommates at such an event seems to me to be a mistake. Perhaps they have some sort of vetting process, but it sure doesn't appear in their housing statement.

Ugh, I wasn't going to make any more comments, but this post got my blood boiling. As a man who spent decades struggling with issues around homosexuality, I have to speak up.

First of all, as to the discouraging remark that change fails more often then it succeeds, I say nonsense. It's corny but it's true: the program works if you work it. My life was saved by the few mental health professionals and some others who believe change is possible. Believe me, if one person, one human being, one soul is saved from the hell of homosexuality, it's worth all the effort. But the poor statistics about recovery from homosexuality or drug addiction or depression or any other mental health problem have more to do with the sad sate of mental health care than anything else. These statistics are in no ways a comment on whether the condition itself (homosexuality or any mental health disorder) is "curable" or amenable to treatment.

As to the incredibly heartless discussion about the risks of randomly assigning roommates, I almost don't know what to say. We are talking about an organization that is trying to help people who are deeply wounded and traumatized, whose lives may be a living hell, and the people on this discussion board are concerned about roommates "screwing around". Please tell me this isn't true.

Let me ask a question: Does anyone see a different possibility. Perhaps two people, who have both experienced a lot of hurt and rejection in their lives, will meet be assigned as roommates at the conference and become FRIENDS, not screw around, but actual friends ad help each throughout their lives, coping with the incredible struggles and hurdles they will have to overcome. Does that possibility occur to anyone?
49 posted on 03/27/2006 9:04:36 PM PST by SoulMan
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To: SoulMan
Thanks for your comments. I especially liked this:

But the poor statistics about recovery from homosexuality or drug addiction or depression or any other mental health problem have more to do with the sad sate of mental health care than anything else. These statistics are in no ways a comment on whether the condition itself (homosexuality or any mental health disorder) is "curable" or amenable to treatment.

Your experience is worth more than all the verbiage upthread.

50 posted on 03/27/2006 9:58:22 PM PST by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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