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Premature babies are 'blocking beds' - UK medical college wants debate on keeping them alive
Timesonline ^ | March 27, 2006 | Sean O’Neill

Posted on 03/27/2006 9:08:03 AM PST by NYer

PREMATURE babies requiring expensive hospital care have been described as “bed blockers” by one of the country’s leading medical colleges.

The Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists (RCOG) says that the ability of doctors to keep alive babies born under 25 weeks presents difficulties for the treatment of other infants. Its comments were made in a submission to an inquiry by the Nuffield Council on Bioethics into the ethics of prolonging life in foetuses and the newborn.

The RCOG paper states: “Some weight should be given to economic considerations as there is a real issue in neonatal units of “bed blocking”, whereby women have to be transferred in labour to other units compromising both their and their babies’ care.

“One of the problems of the ‘success’ of neonatal intensive care is that the practitioners are always pushing boundaries. There has been a constant need to expand numbers of cots to cover the increasing tendency to try and rescue babies at lower and lower gestations.”

The college’s paper was submitted in July 2005 but its content has been highlighted as NHS trusts come under growing pressure to cut costs and use resources more efficiently.

The RCOG said last night: “There is a proper professional concern around the high death and handicap rate in babies born under 25 weeks. A wellinformed and considered debate is welcomed.”

Patricia Hewitt, the Health Secretary, said yesterday that admitting patients who were unfit for surgery or arrived early for operations was blocking beds and costing the NHS up to £200 a day each.

Some trusts are admitting up to 60 per cent of patients the day before surgery. Ms Hewitt said that if all the trusts with above-average early admissions met the national average it would save at least 390,000 bed days a year at a saving of £78 million.

“Improved patient care and increased efficiency go hand in hand,” she said.

“Finding out a patient is unfit for surgery, which could have been established by a separate assessment before the operation, is another example of a wasted bed day.”

A pilot scheme in Croydon where orthopaedic patients waiting for surgery at Mayday Healthcare NHS Trust visited the hospital for routine pre-surgery tests and administration two weeks before their operationsaved 13 beds and £270,000 in the first year while treating the same number of patients.

Dr Gill Morgan, chief executive of the NHS Confederation, said: “Reducing inpatient admissions and lengths of stay in hospitals will result in real savings, but only if capacity is reduced as a result — which may mean closing beds and wards.

“A fixation with hospital buildings is preventing the development of new and imaginative services. We will have to work hard to convince the public that, with technological advances and a shift to providing more care out of hospitals, the loss of beds and wards doesn’t necessarily equate to a decline in services for patients.”


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: bioethics; eugenics; euthanasia; infants; moralabsolutes; mrmean; omg; premature

1 posted on 03/27/2006 9:08:07 AM PST by NYer
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To: Coleus; cpforlife.org

Ping!


2 posted on 03/27/2006 9:08:27 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer
Devil in the flesh

These AH's are lower than reptile crap

3 posted on 03/27/2006 9:09:08 AM PST by vrwc0915
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To: NYer
Some trusts are admitting up to 60 per cent of patients the day before surgery. Ms Hewitt said that if all the trusts with above-average early admissions met the national average it would save at least 390,000 bed days a year at a saving of £78 million.

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

4 posted on 03/27/2006 9:11:55 AM PST by Tax-chick (May I suggest a restorative adult beverage? Perhaps something Australian?)
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To: NYer

Pity some merciless tyrant inflicted a socialized medical system on them or there would be enough beds.

In this country, hospitals close wings because there aren't enough patients to fill all of the beds.

Maybe we should Lend-Lease them to the Brits?


5 posted on 03/27/2006 9:13:45 AM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: Tax-chick

Yes, and we can also start euthanizing all seniors immediately upon their retirement from active work.

That would relieve an immense burden on society (no pensions!)

Plus all handicapped, blind, deaf, etc. (sorry, not enough resources to go around)

Only the young and healthy can be permitted to occupy space.

(now why did anything think that legalizing abortion would lead to this?)


6 posted on 03/27/2006 9:14:29 AM PST by CondorFlight
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To: NYer; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; BIRDS; BlackElk; ...
MORAL ABSOLUTES PING.

DISCUSSION ABOUT:
"Premature babies are 'blocking beds' - UK medical college wants debate on keeping them alive"

NONE of us are safe from the Culture of Death and their evil eugenics agenda.

To be included in or removed from the MORAL ABSOLUTES PINGLIST, please FreepMail wagglebee.

7 posted on 03/27/2006 9:18:23 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: NYer

That's what happens when you have the state providing health care.

The Nazis didn't start with the Jews or the gypsies. They started with terminal patients and the mentally ill.


8 posted on 03/27/2006 9:21:16 AM PST by weegee ("Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but Democrats believe every day is April 15.")
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To: NYer
Hey,if it weren't just about impossible to own a gun in Britain,you could just shoot these kids in the back of the head and the problem would be solved.
9 posted on 03/27/2006 9:22:09 AM PST by Gay State Conservative
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To: NYer

"Ethics" separated from morality is just a means of justifying the grotesque.

It becomes more and more plain to me that once you let go of God, there is no bright line to separate you from ghoulishness. If enough people let go of God the whole society is lost.


10 posted on 03/27/2006 9:22:45 AM PST by marron
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To: NYer
That's what Hildabeasts Medical Plan would have us discussing and implementing if her takeover of the nations health care had gone through. I know this because a year after she tried to do that, I delivered a premature baby...she was in the neonatal ward for two months. We often joke that they should be finishing our wing at the hospital any day now, because of all the money it cost our insurance company to pay...but she got the FINEST care and attention in Hermann Hospital. She had to be life-flighted there from the hospital where she was delivered because they didnt have the proper facilities.

Read Christian Josi's Tract on Hillary Clinton's record. He boils it all down for you. Its then you realize just what a monster she can be and how she has been able to foster such horrendous ideas.

She didnt get it through, but I have noticed in the last decade that the lawyers in the insurance companies have been working it where its less and less about the person needing medical support, and more about how much money they can steal without actually having to put back out.

11 posted on 03/27/2006 9:24:58 AM PST by Alkhin (He thinks I need keeping in order - Peregrin Took, FOTR)
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To: wagglebee
"What you do to the least of these you have done unto ME"
12 posted on 03/27/2006 9:25:19 AM PST by sr4402
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To: NYer

Gotta love that Socialized Medicine. Brought to you by liberals right here in this country if we let them....


13 posted on 03/27/2006 9:27:45 AM PST by TheBattman (Islam (and liberalism)- the cult of Satan and a Cancer on Society)
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To: 2ndMostConservativeBrdMember; afraidfortherepublic; Alas; al_c; american colleen; annalex; ...
as “bed blockers” by one of the country’s leading medical colleges.  >>>
and as future useless eaters who may use up time and reources for a lifetime of care.
 
We're living in a sick world
 
Communists boiled babies: Berlusconi

14 posted on 03/27/2006 9:30:43 AM PST by Coleus (What were Ted Kennedy & his nephew doing on Good Friday, 1991? Getting drunk and raping women)
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To: CondorFlight
Only the young and healthy tall, thin, beautiful, and rich can be permitted to occupy space.
15 posted on 03/27/2006 9:33:21 AM PST by Alouette (Psalms of the Day: 120-134)
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To: NYer
 Prayer Request for A Tiny Baby
FReeper Texas Termite!
(Logan)
 Logan then...26 weeks (24 weeks gestation)
1lb 9oz.
 
July 25th, 2003
 
Logan now
 
 
 
 
(and Here's Logan with Texas Cowboy...just cause I like the picture and miss TC)
 
 


16 posted on 03/27/2006 9:34:18 AM PST by M0sby (((PROUD WIFE of MSgt Edwards USMC)))
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To: marron

The only ethical thing to do is take all ethicists out and have them summarily executed.


17 posted on 03/27/2006 9:44:52 AM PST by thoughtomator (Pacifism is objectively pro-terrorist)
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To: NYer

Of course, the common sense solution would be to expand the hospitals, but I guess killing 'em all would be more cost-efficient. After all, who said hospitals are about saving as many lives as possible anyway. I thought they were just there to keep up appearances!

But wasn't socialism supposed to be about, you know, equality and fairness for all the people? Doesn't look likes it's working quite the way the intended it.


18 posted on 03/27/2006 9:49:35 AM PST by marsh_of_mists
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To: CondorFlight

I'm sorry, is this responsive to my post?

It makes sense to me that if people don't need to be in the hospital for a day before surgery, they shouldn't be there. If they're not in a fit condition before surgery, that should be determined by an outpatient checkup, not after admission and scheduling for surgery.

These are simple management issues that are the policy of any system with a concern for effective use of resources.


19 posted on 03/27/2006 10:04:02 AM PST by Tax-chick (May I suggest a restorative adult beverage? Perhaps something Australian?)
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To: wagglebee

Unbelievable sad. That is just sick.


20 posted on 03/27/2006 10:13:36 AM PST by TheresaKett
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To: Tax-chick

Pretty much we do that here, first go to your family doc for clearance, then over to the hosp on surgery day. Seems reasonable to me.

OTOH...we can, with infinite money, keep preemies alive for a long time. Also we can prolong dying for months in terminal older folk.

Sooner or later we're going to have to talk about it. We don't have infinite money. This is not a socialized medicine issue since hospitals have to perform some sort of effective triage or they'll run out of beds.


21 posted on 03/27/2006 10:15:54 AM PST by From many - one.
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News flash:

There is another option.

Increase the newborn wings of your hospitals. You can afford it if you get your head around the concept of Choose Life.

What would these medical types have wanted THEIR mothers to do if they slipped into this world a few weeks / months early?


22 posted on 03/27/2006 10:17:11 AM PST by GretchenM (What does it profit a man to gain the whole world and lose his soul? Please meet my friend, Jesus.)
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To: NYer

thanks for posting this. isn't it a shame that a country that could be a world leader in "some" aspects of democratic life can not imagine the importance of saving a baby?


23 posted on 03/27/2006 10:20:31 AM PST by q_an_a
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To: NYer
“Some weight should be given to economic considerations as there is a real issue in neonatal units of “bed blocking”
It was once called "Patient Care".
The slippery slope gets a bit steeper....
24 posted on 03/27/2006 10:24:21 AM PST by GrandEagle
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To: NYer
“One of the problems of the ‘success’ of neonatal intensive care is that the practitioners are always pushing boundaries. There has been a constant need to expand numbers of cots to cover the increasing tendency to try and rescue babies at lower and lower gestations.”

Yep. Damn doctors. Always pushing boundaries.

SD

25 posted on 03/27/2006 10:27:27 AM PST by SoothingDave
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To: M0sby
I remember the prayers that went up for Logan. Thanks for the pics! It is good to see the little guy.

Cordially,
GE
26 posted on 03/27/2006 10:27:35 AM PST by GrandEagle
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To: NYer

Father of a preemie (premium!) ping!


27 posted on 03/27/2006 10:28:38 AM PST by DCMxyzptlk (Will the last person out of Maine please shut off the lights?)
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To: SoothingDave

Yep. Damn doctors. Always pushing boundaries.

Yeah, don't they know they know that boundaries are there for a reason?


28 posted on 03/27/2006 10:35:52 AM PST by confederate_infidel (All I ever needed to know I learned at FR.)
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To: NYer

I don't quite know what to say. I cannot believe that it's come to this.


29 posted on 03/27/2006 10:37:29 AM PST by freeperfromnj
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To: NYer
NHS trusts come under growing pressure to cut costs and use resources more efficiently.

Something like this is pretty much inevitable with socialized medicine.

The greatest irony and tragedy here is that in the next room from where doctors are working to save preemies, other "doctors" are cutting them into pieces.

30 posted on 03/27/2006 10:48:54 AM PST by Aquinasfan (When you find "Sola Scriptura" in the Bible, let me know)
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To: NYer

In the UK abortion can be performed when the babies are larger than the ones the Neonatal Units in the same area are saving. Curious ...


31 posted on 03/27/2006 11:10:50 AM PST by sono ("If Congressional brains were cargo, there'd be nothing to unload." - Rush Limbaugh)
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To: NYer

Don't you just love socialized medicine?


32 posted on 03/27/2006 11:14:20 AM PST by toddlintown (Lennon takes six bullets to the chest, Yoko is standing right next to him and not one f'ing bullet?)
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To: MHGinTN; Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; ...

Please Freepmail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

33 posted on 03/27/2006 2:04:29 PM PST by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at www.KnightsForLife.org)
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“The greatest evil is not done in those sordid dens of evil that Dickens loved to paint but is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clear, carpeted, warmed, well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices.”
--C. S. Lewis
34 posted on 03/27/2006 2:17:24 PM PST by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available at www.KnightsForLife.org)
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To: NYer

It's only a matter of time before the very young, very old, sick and infirmed, anyone with any sort of medical problem will be seen as an "economoic burden".

Anyone who thinks Satan does not exist, please take note.


35 posted on 03/27/2006 2:23:42 PM PST by Aussie Dasher (The Great Ronald Reagan & John Paul II - Heaven's Dream Team!)
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To: NYer
Euthanasia is still called murder!

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

enter the Table of Contents of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here

Euthanasia

2276 Those whose lives are diminished or weakened deserve special respect. Sick or handicapped persons should be helped to lead lives as normal as possible.

2277 Whatever its motives and means, direct euthanasia consists in putting an end to the lives of handicapped, sick, or dying persons. It is morally unacceptable.

Thus an act or omission which, of itself or by intention, causes death in order to eliminate suffering constitutes a murder gravely contrary to the dignity of the human person and to the respect due to the living God, his Creator. The error of judgment into which one can fall in good faith does not change the nature of this murderous act, which must always be forbidden and excluded.

2278 Discontinuing medical procedures that are burdensome, dangerous, extraordinary, or disproportionate to the expected outcome can be legitimate; it is the refusal of "over-zealous" treatment. Here one does not will to cause death; one's inability to impede it is merely accepted. The decisions should be made by the patient if he is competent and able or, if not, by those legally entitled to act for the patient, whose reasonable will and legitimate interests must always be respected.

2279 Even if death is thought imminent, the ordinary care owed to a sick person cannot be legitimately interrupted. The use of painkillers to alleviate the sufferings of the dying, even at the risk of shortening their days, can be morally in conformity with human dignity if death is not willed as either an end or a means, but only foreseen and tolerated as inevitable Palliative care is a special form of disinterested charity. As such it should be encouraged.


36 posted on 03/27/2006 2:39:45 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: vrwc0915; NYer; quidnunc

<< NYer
Devil in the flesh

These AH's are lower than reptile crap >>

To put it mildly.

Sodom and Gomorrah are alive and well and comprise only a tiny corner of the Europeons' increasingly evil empire.

And, to borrow from the evangelicals, judgement, it seems, is at hand.

Even once-great -- or so some say -- Britain's national birth rate, most of it in any case propelled by the much higher rate of reproduction of its many third world Blair-Cli'ton/NATO Neo-Axis empowered and fellow Hitler-footsteps-following Euro-peon Muslim immigrants, has, thank God, declined far below the rate at which the British can survive as a people.

As have the birth rates of so many of the rest of the dead and decadent states that make up the Brussels-based Europeon Neo-Soviet, of which said once-great Britain has become but a squalidly socialistic offshore satellite state.

Meanwhile, at least one of Britain's Europeon partner dead and decadent states has elevated the killing, by "doctors," of the inconvenient of any age, to the level a "medical procedure." And its every parner state has long kept seriously premature babies off its lists of what constitutes "live infants." In order, one supposes to maintain "infant mortality rates" that "look better," in their eyes, than America's.

And to reach the point they're all now already at. Or are rapidly approaching.

BUMPping


37 posted on 03/27/2006 3:12:42 PM PST by Brian Allen (How arrogant are we to believe our career political-power-lusting lumpen somehow superior to theirs?)
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To: M0sby

Our foster child was born at 24 weeks' gestation as well.

She turns 2 in two weeks, and is happy and healthy with no long-term effects (photos on my freeper-page).

Had she been born in a different location, she'd be termed "unviable" by the Culture of Death.

Your son's life is nothing short of miraculos! Thank you for sharing his beautiful pictures!


38 posted on 03/27/2006 4:26:22 PM PST by ItsOurTimeNow ("All that hath life and breath, come now with praises before Him.")
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To: thoughtomator
The only ethical thing to do is take all ethicists out and have them summarily executed.

I told one of them this. They were horribly shocked. Accused me of being heartless and threatening them. I did not say it in a threatening mode at all, just a suggestion. Told them that people who wanted others to die because they were worried about world population should be the first to volunteer or else they were hypocrites.

39 posted on 03/27/2006 4:59:09 PM PST by Bellflower (A Brand New Day Is Coming!)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow

YOur little Faith is beautiful and a miracle!
I am so thankful that she found you for a foster family (and hopefully forever-family!)

Little Logan is amazing and wonderful and also a MIRACLE!
But, he is not mine!
He is Freeper "Brad'sGramma's" dear friend's grandson.
Brad's Gramma started the thread I posted above soon after Logan (aka "the Texas Termite") was born~
The thread is amazing...way over 10,000 replies!
He barely bade it through a couple of times..and we were all on our knees...but he is alive and well today..and his Nana posts under his FReeper name "Texas Termite".

Thanks for the nice comments!
Good luck with your beautiful family!
And GOD BLESS!


40 posted on 03/27/2006 8:30:03 PM PST by M0sby (((PROUD WIFE of MSgt Edwards USMC)))
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To: NYer

Every premature baby they kill just shortens the time until the followers of mohamad take over.

Then it will be the baby murder's blood that flows.


41 posted on 03/27/2006 8:35:57 PM PST by sport
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To: NYer

Socialized medicine means only the healthy are allowed to live..


42 posted on 03/27/2006 8:39:06 PM PST by TASMANIANRED (The Internet is the samizdat of liberty..)
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To: weegee

>>>>The Nazis didn't start with the Jews or the gypsies. They started with terminal patients and the mentally ill.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on National Health systems.


43 posted on 03/28/2006 6:57:54 AM PST by .cnI redruM ("Brother, you can believe in stones, as long as you don't throw them at me. - W. Sultan)
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To: marsh_of_mists
But wasn't socialism supposed to be about, you know, equality and fairness for all the people? Doesn't look likes it's working quite the way the intended it.

Never has, and never will... Pity more "educated" people cannot see that...

the infowarrior

44 posted on 03/28/2006 6:07:37 PM PST by infowarrior (The GOP runs the US, the Dems run their mouths... Freeper HardStarboard)
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