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Thomas Sowell: Guests or Gate Crashers?
Creator's Syndicate ^ | March 28, 2006 | Dr. Thomas Sowell

Posted on 03/27/2006 9:08:57 PM PST by RWR8189

Immigration is yet another issue which we seem unable to discuss rationally -- in part because words have been twisted beyond recognition in political rhetoric.

We can't even call illegal immigrants "illegal immigrants." The politically correct evasion is "undocumented workers."

Do American citizens go around carrying documents with them when they work or apply for work? Most Americans are undocumented workers but they are not illegal immigrants. There is a difference.

The Bush administration is pushing a program to legalize "guest workers." But what is a guest? Someone you have invited. People who force their way into your home without your permission are called gate crashers.

If truth-in-packaging laws applied to politics, the Bush guest worker program would have to be called a "gate-crasher worker" program. The President's proposal would solve the problem of illegal immigration by legalizing it after the fact.

We could solve the problem of all illegal activity anywhere by legalizing it. Why use this approach only with immigration? Why should any of us pay a speeding ticket if immigration scofflaws are legalized after the fact for committing a federal crime?

Most of the arguments for not enforcing our immigration laws are exercises in frivolous rhetoric and slippery sophistry, rather than serious arguments that will stand up under scrutiny.

How often have we heard that illegal immigrants "take jobs that Americans will not do"? What is missing in this argument is what is crucial in any economic argument: price.

Americans will not take many jobs at their current pay levels -- and those pay levels will not rise so long as poverty-stricken immigrants are willing to take those jobs.

If Mexican journalists were flooding into the United States and taking jobs as reporters and editors at half the pay being earned by American reporters and editors, maybe people in the media would understand why the argument about "taking jobs that Americans don't want" is such nonsense.

Another variation on the same theme is that we "need" the millions of illegal aliens already in the United States. "Need" is another word that blithely ignores prices.

If jet planes were on sale for a thousand dollars each, I would probably "need" a couple of them -- an extra one to fly when the first one needed repair or maintenance. But since these planes cost millions of dollars, I don't even "need" one.

There is no fixed amount of "need," independently of prices, whether with planes or workers.

None of the rhetoric and sophistry that we hear about immigration deals with the plain and ugly reality: Politicians are afraid of losing the Hispanic vote and businesses want cheap labor.

What millions of other Americans want has been brushed aside, as if they don't count, and they have been soothed with pious words. But now the voters are getting fed up, which is why there are immigration bills in Congress.

The old inevitability ploy is often trotted out in immigration debates: It is not possible to either keep out illegal immigrants or to expel the ones already here.

If you mean stopping every single illegal immigrant from getting in or expelling every single illegal immigrant who is already here, that may well be true. But does the fact that we cannot prevent every single murder cause us to stop enforcing the laws against murder?

Since existing immigration laws are not being enforced, how can anyone say that it would not do any good to try? People who get caught illegally crossing the border into the United States pay no penalty whatever. They are sent back home and can try again.

What if bank robbers who were caught were simply told to give the money back and not do it again? What if murderers who were caught were turned loose and warned not to kill again? Would that be proof that it is futile to take action, when no action was taken?

Let's hope the immigration bills before Congress can at least get an honest debate, instead of the word games we have been hearing for too long.

Copyright 2006 Creators Syndicate



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cheaplaborforgop; illegalimmigrants; illegalimmigration; illegals; immigrants; mexico; reconquesta; scamnesty; sowell; thomassowell; votesfordems
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1 posted on 03/27/2006 9:09:02 PM PST by RWR8189
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To: RWR8189

Bump.


2 posted on 03/27/2006 9:10:56 PM PST by I got the rope
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To: RWR8189

Good thoughts. Thanks for the post.


3 posted on 03/27/2006 9:12:41 PM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: RWR8189
I always love reading Thomas Sowell's writings. I can't recall ever disagreeing with him.
4 posted on 03/27/2006 9:14:07 PM PST by Jaysun (As long as you are lying, why bother placing limits on how outrageous you are - LZ_Bayonet)
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To: RWR8189

The illegal aliens and the criminals who hire them and the criminals who harbor them are getting out in the street making their desires known. It is way past time those of us who support the rule of law and secure borders did the same.

Join Veterans for Secure Borders, The Minuteman Project, Latino Americans for Immigration Reform, Mothers Against Illegal Aliens, and other groups protesting amnesty for these criminals, and demanding the government protect our borders.

http://www.areckoning.com/

FReepers should be at this rally in strength. Saturday, May 6, in Crawford, TX.


5 posted on 03/27/2006 9:14:30 PM PST by SUSSA
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To: RWR8189
Do American citizens go around carrying documents with them when they work or apply for work? Most Americans are undocumented workers but they are not illegal immigrants. There is a difference.

The Bush administration is pushing a program to legalize "guest workers." But what is a guest? Someone you have invited. People who force their way into your home without your permission are called gate crashers.

Funny/sad stuff Mr. Sowell. Bush should call his immigration reform the Gate Crasher program. I like it.

6 posted on 03/27/2006 9:15:10 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: RWR8189

Golly, he's got to be just about the smartest man ever born.....
susie


7 posted on 03/27/2006 9:15:45 PM PST by brytlea (I'm not a conspiracy theorist....really.)
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The problem has simply gotten so big that we can't or won't or don't want to deal with it. I say give them guest status and then control them. Guest status will require them to register so we can then keep tract of them.


8 posted on 03/27/2006 9:18:10 PM PST by webboy45
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To: RWR8189

Amen to that!! How refreshing to hear the voice of reason.


9 posted on 03/27/2006 9:19:06 PM PST by LADY J
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To: RWR8189
Thanks, good post as always is Dr. Sowell. I'm afraid we're only going to get word play again out of our politicians as he alluded to in the past.
10 posted on 03/27/2006 9:19:11 PM PST by jazusamo (Excuse me Helen, I'm answering your first accusation. - President Bush)
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To: RWR8189
The mark of a scholar. Well written, well thought out.

The quiet voice of reason.

11 posted on 03/27/2006 9:25:25 PM PST by Peter Libra
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To: maine-iac7

Perhaps this will give you another persepective to consider.


12 posted on 03/27/2006 9:26:19 PM PST by thoughtomator (Pacifism is objectively pro-terrorist; Amnesty for illegals is objectively anti-American)
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To: RWR8189

I have a question for fans of Sowell. One of my twin daughters is majoring in economics. She loves it! I'd like to get her a Thomas Sowell book. Does anyone here have a favorite? (I haven't read any of his books - just his opinion pieces.)


13 posted on 03/27/2006 9:27:07 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: RWR8189

Today Rush called Mexico an ally......

Does an ally send 500,000 criminals to your country every year?

Does an ally use the money sent back by those 500,000 to cover up its economic faliures?

Does an ally openly encourage more and more of its criminals to violate its allies laws?

Does an ally fail to extradite murderers back to the US?

Does an ally.....you get the point. When we started saying things like there are to many of them I gues theres nothing we can do we have already surrendered any soverignty we had.

Its time to send them all back or burn the constitution. It is all or nothing.


14 posted on 03/27/2006 9:28:37 PM PST by reluctantwarrior (Strength and Honor, just call me Buzzkill for short......)
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To: Jaysun

Yeah, Sowell's the man!


15 posted on 03/27/2006 9:29:39 PM PST by BamaGirl (The Framers Rule!)
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To: sageb1

I've only read one, "Black Rednecks and White Liberals." I found it fascinating, but there wasn't much economics in it.


16 posted on 03/27/2006 9:31:00 PM PST by BamaGirl (The Framers Rule!)
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To: RWR8189

Frist seems to be the only only one with some sense in DC recently....close the border and then we can deal with the illegals allready here.

I lived a Guantanamo Bay, Cuba years ago as a Naval Dependent. The Cubans came in busses every day to work on the base and then they went home. We had control of the border!


17 posted on 03/27/2006 9:36:05 PM PST by TheLion
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To: webboy45
"The problem has simply gotten so big that we can't or won't or don't want to deal with it."

If we don't want to deal with the problem no amount of semantic gymnastics such as "guest status" will have any effect. The problem will only fester and grow.
18 posted on 03/27/2006 9:36:37 PM PST by Prokopton
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To: BamaGirl

Thanks for the recommendation. :)


19 posted on 03/27/2006 9:37:24 PM PST by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: webboy45
Guest status will require them to register so we can then keep tract of them.

They are already required to register for alot of things (like a visa).

Guest worker status has absolutly no incentive that is not already in place to make them register except for claiming that its now "above board".

Problem is, there is more disincetives to the program than incentives.

We have totally reversed the process where we tell legal immigrants they are screwed and tell illegals they are welcome, then turn around and complain whats happening?

20 posted on 03/27/2006 9:40:17 PM PST by Sonny M ("oderint dum metuant")
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To: reluctantwarrior

And they didn't support us when it came to Iraq either. And didn't a whole stadium cheer about something related to 9/11? Were they chanting Osama? I can't remember.


21 posted on 03/27/2006 9:46:37 PM PST by beaversmom
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To: webboy45
Guest status will require them to register so we can then keep tract of them.

Requiring them to register won't work any better than requiring law abiding citizens to register guns. Doesnt keep criminals from having them. And these aliens are criminals as they broke the law just by coming here illegally. So..what makes you think they will register just because they are supposed to?
22 posted on 03/27/2006 9:48:37 PM PST by D1X1E (The ones protesting the war due to loss of life seem to be the same ones supporting abortion.)
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To: sageb1
I'd like to get her a Thomas Sowell book. Does anyone here have a favorite?

First:
Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to the Economy
Barbarians Inside the Gates.

Then any of his * and Cultures

23 posted on 03/27/2006 9:48:42 PM PST by dread78645 (Sorry Mr. Franklin, We couldn't keep it.)
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To: RWR8189

Thanks for posting Dr. Sowell!


24 posted on 03/27/2006 9:54:51 PM PST by WatchingInAmazement ("Nothing is more expensive than cheap labor," prof. Vernon Briggs, labor economist Cornell Un.)
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To: webboy45

If we do not deal with it now, someday they will deal it out to us.


25 posted on 03/27/2006 9:58:00 PM PST by Ursus arctos horribilis
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To: RWR8189
Thanks for posting Sowell's article. He is always great. The fact is that most people in the US want immigration laws enforced and illegals deported.

It is the media that covers up that fact and makes it appear that it is racist to want the laws of our country obeyed.

Also, the politicians are listening to the criminals, rather than the taxpaying citizens. It is a joke--we now have representation for the non-tax-paying illegals.

26 posted on 03/27/2006 10:47:49 PM PST by savagesusie
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To: RWR8189
Nothing will get done. Our politicians are afraid of offending Hispanic voters and of their big business contributions getting cut off. So we'll have more gate crashers entering our national house uninvited. The ugly truth is we have no intention of enforcing our immigration laws. There are just too many toes serious enforcement would step upon.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie. Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

27 posted on 03/27/2006 11:19:32 PM PST by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
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To: reluctantwarrior

phu## Rush/


28 posted on 03/27/2006 11:38:43 PM PST by jeremiah (How much did we get for that rope?)
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To: RWR8189
My favorite part is Michael Medveds argument, "they own houses, and pay taxes" how can you tell them to leave?

If they own a house, they commited fraud, if they are paying taxes, they are commiting perjury.....both FELONIES.

29 posted on 03/27/2006 11:41:49 PM PST by jeremiah (How much did we get for that rope?)
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To: RWR8189
"How often have we heard that illegal immigrants "take jobs that Americans will not do"? What is missing in this argument is what is crucial in any economic argument: price.

Americans will not take many jobs at their current pay levels -- and those pay levels will not rise so long as poverty-stricken immigrants are willing to take those jobs."

I thought this today (having read Sowell's Basic Economics and Applied Economics). If we deported every illegal, whatever work they were doing would suddenly have a huge shortage of workers. Because of supply and demand, the rate of pay to do those jobs would go up -- up closer to what Americans need for their standard of living.
30 posted on 03/27/2006 11:43:18 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: webboy45

And what if they don't?


31 posted on 03/27/2006 11:43:53 PM PST by Exton1
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To: webboy45

And what if they don't?


32 posted on 03/27/2006 11:43:56 PM PST by Exton1
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To: SUSSA

33 posted on 03/27/2006 11:46:01 PM PST by cartoonistx
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To: webboy45
In ten years what do we do with the 10 million new illegals? We sure as hell won't get rid of them. And we sure as hell won't have any legislators fighting for America, because all of these gate-crashers will be voting Democrats into office who sympathize with their "plight."

By the way, Reagan tried this in the 80's. It failed and that's why we're facing the issue again.
34 posted on 03/27/2006 11:48:36 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: BamaGirl
Read "Basic Economics" and "Applied Economics" (both by Sowell), in that order. If you only read one, then read Basics, as Applied goes over much of Basics but in more detail.
35 posted on 03/27/2006 11:50:44 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: RWR8189

BTTT

Sowell doesn't have to worry about being called racist

not that he would care


36 posted on 03/27/2006 11:53:16 PM PST by wardaddy (you get older and you realize "tired" and "sleepy" are way different)
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To: Jaysun
I agree for the most part. But I disagree with him on the issue of unlimited offshoring.

And, to be honest and risk being flamed here, I find his support of offshoring (even on-shore offshoring) to be incongruous with his argument against illegal aliens working low-lever jobs. According to his offshoring theory, the illegal aliens who are working here are actually creating more jobs at higher levels for Americans. We know they're not, but that's his argument in supporting programs like NAFTA and offshoring.
37 posted on 03/27/2006 11:53:49 PM PST by Ghost of Philip Marlowe (Liberals are blind. They are the dupes of Leftists who know exactly what they're doing.)
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To: Prokopton; PhilDragoo
If we don't want to deal with the problem no amount of semantic gymnastics such as "guest status" will have any effect. The problem will only fester and grow

Mexico’s Southern Flank: a Crime-Ridden “Third U.S. Border”

Excerpt:
The most notorious gang, often likened to the Crips and the Bloods of Los Angeles, is the Mara Salvatruchas, composed chiefly of former members of the Salvadoran army who have been deported from Los Angeles and other American cities. These tattooed hoodlums, who number in the tens of thousands, style themselves as “migrant hunters.” They rob, mutilate, and murder the illegal aliens who jump off northbound trains approaching checkpoints at night. Aliens remaining on the “trains of death” often clamor about the box cars, falling off or getting crushed in the wheels. The bloodthirsty Maras also carry out car thefts and kidnappings, according to a Catholic immigrant-aid committee.

38 posted on 03/28/2006 1:59:47 AM PST by Parrot_was_devastating
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To: sageb1

I liked the Search for Cosmic Justice.


39 posted on 03/28/2006 2:38:48 AM PST by patj
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To: sageb1
Both "Basic Economics" and "Applied Economics" are excellent books. Easy for a non-economist to understand.

For more socioeconomic commentary, "The Vision Of The Anointed" is a good one.
40 posted on 03/28/2006 2:58:31 AM PST by PogySailor (CPL PogySailor coming home from Iraq in April!)
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To: brytlea
he's got to be just about the smartest man ever born.....

True, and absolutely unrecognized by the MSM or much of anyone outside conservative media circles because he's a black conservative.

41 posted on 03/28/2006 3:13:11 AM PST by Hardastarboard (HEY - Billy Joe! You ARE an American Idiot!)
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To: RWR8189
People who force their way into your home without your permission are called gate crashers.

No, they are called home invaders and it is legal in most states to shoot the SOBs.

42 posted on 03/28/2006 3:16:52 AM PST by metesky ("Brethren, leave us go amongst them." Rev. Capt. Samuel Johnston Clayton - Ward Bond- The Searchers)
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To: D1X1E
So..what makes you think they will register just because they are supposed to?

Especially since we've admitted that we can't control this problem...heck, we can't even send them back because we can't FIND most of them!

Funny, I seem to remember Reagan in 1986 or so when we did the amnesty program saying this would be a one-time thing, it was their only chance, yada yada yada.

Just like Social Security -- ignoring the problem will NOT make it go away!

43 posted on 03/28/2006 3:23:28 AM PST by IrishRainy
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To: RWR8189

Rational and right on from Thomas Sowell!


44 posted on 03/28/2006 3:25:54 AM PST by dennisw (I like Ike)
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To: Jaysun; Ghost of Philip Marlowe
I'm sure that this will be a first for you then. As I recall, you lean the way of protectionist, correct?
Inspired by post #37 from Ghost of Philip Marlowe.
45 posted on 03/28/2006 3:26:33 AM PST by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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To: sageb1
I have a question for fans of Sowell. One of my twin daughters is majoring in economics. She loves it! I'd like to get her a Thomas Sowell book. Does anyone here have a favorite? (I haven't read any of his books - just his opinion pieces.)

Conflict of Visions

46 posted on 03/28/2006 3:36:01 AM PST by jimfree (Freep and ye shall find.)
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To: RWR8189
The President's proposal would solve the problem of illegal immigration by legalizing it after the fact.

The money sentence.

The sentence to understand if you want to understand the deceptive reality of the administration's agenda and rhetoric.

47 posted on 03/28/2006 3:36:44 AM PST by EternalVigilance (20 million+ illegal aliens here now...a billion more coming behind them...be very afraid!)
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To: RWR8189
Do American citizens go around carrying documents with them when they work or apply for work?

Yes. I had to provide two of either Birth Certificate, Passport, SS card, Drivers License or DD 242 for the last 20 projects I was hired for.

48 posted on 03/28/2006 3:40:16 AM PST by Semper Paratus
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To: webboy45

"Guest status will require them to register so we can then keep tract of them."

Now that we have 11 million who have come here illegally and failed to pay income taxes (a crime for the rest of us), what makes you think they will "register" so that we can "keep tract(sic) of them" so they will have to pay the income taxes like the rest of us?


49 posted on 03/28/2006 3:41:24 AM PST by ed1340 (Quality endures.)
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To: Semper Paratus

What is a DD-242?


50 posted on 03/28/2006 3:42:59 AM PST by LowCountryJoe (I'm a Paleo-liberal: I believe in freedom; am socially independent and a borderline fiscal anarchist)
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