Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Greenhouse theory smashed by biggest stone (most potent greenhouse gas is H2O)
Space and Earth Science ^ | March 14, 2006 | University of Leicester

Posted on 03/28/2006 5:52:41 AM PST by E. Pluribus Unum

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-75 last
To: capt. norm
Irrigation is generally used in arid or semi-arid regions. It's pretty easy to find the numbers needed to estimate all of this.

Concerning "soaking into the ground", it does that ~ INITIALLY ~ and then it is sucked up by the plants. Much of it evaporates directly ~ that's why irrigation leaves behind salt damaged land.

51 posted on 03/28/2006 11:27:59 AM PST by muawiyah (-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Concerning "soaking into the ground", it does that ~ INITIALLY ~ and then it is sucked up by the plants. Much of it evaporates directly ~ that's why irrigation leaves behind salt damaged land.

I'm sorry, but none of that has anything to do with the factors I mentioned in my post.

First of all, irrigation has been taking place on a long term basis and it's effects are barely measureable on today's equipment. As I mentioned, we're talking about a factor that amounts to hundredths of one percent, at best. Micro-trivia! What is your point?

*Please excuse me for guessing, but this wouldn't happen to be your your day off, would it?

52 posted on 03/28/2006 11:37:19 AM PST by capt. norm (If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum
Ah, so dihydrogen-monoxide is linked to global warming!
53 posted on 03/28/2006 11:40:33 AM PST by Smedley
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah

*


54 posted on 03/28/2006 11:43:35 AM PST by Sam Cree (absolute reality) - ("Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one." Albert Einstein)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: capt. norm
Irrigation has been taking place for a long time ~ right ~ and we can pretty well establish when it was first implemented on a widespread scale because the Earth heated up.

That's way back when rice cultivation spread throughout China and East Asia.

Lightweight plastic pipe, cheap pumps, and other pieces of technology have allowed for a vast expansion of irrigation over the past 50 years.

Several issues back a Brit researcher saw his research into the matter of a coming Ice Age Glaciation published in Scientific American. It is his thesis that we are actually in the cool-down phase leading to widespread glaciation BUT widespread agriculture has served to keep the Earth warm. He pointed to a drop in global temperatures coincident with the great die-off of American Indians (1500-1600), and the consequent rise in global temperatures coincident with European/African re-settlement of the Americas.

55 posted on 03/28/2006 11:44:38 AM PST by muawiyah (-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 52 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Sorry. My "Tin Hat Alarm" failed to go off on your post.

I have since replaced its batteries and it's now working fine now ...whoaaa!....let me turn it down here.

There might be a coherent thought in what you posted, but I sure don't have time to search for it.

56 posted on 03/28/2006 11:49:41 AM PST by capt. norm (If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum
yuh, just received this from fellow at NASA.

Ocean water absorbs SO MUCH of the Sun's heat for this planet, otherwise we'd be in trouble. Great paper.

Luckily, the 'chance to debate' this theory has not been declared 'over' by Al Gore.

57 posted on 03/28/2006 11:53:57 AM PST by foldspace (Tom Delay is NOT a criminal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: gobucks

Yes, the same big government that is running France to the stops will defend the earth against the big bad CO2. Get popcorn and watch the show.


58 posted on 03/28/2006 11:54:28 AM PST by jonrick46
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: foldspace

Yup, the ocean absorbs lots and lots of heat.


59 posted on 03/28/2006 11:56:00 AM PST by muawiyah (-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: cogitator

LOL!! You missed adding an 'incorrect' about my Hillary statement!!!! Jeeeez Louieezzzzee!!


60 posted on 03/29/2006 3:54:34 AM PST by gobucks (Blissful Marriage: A result of a worldly husband's transformation into the Word's wife.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
Irrigation has been taking place for a long time ~ right ~ and we can pretty well establish when it was first implemented on a widespread scale because the Earth heated up.

~ wrong ~

I don't have to be a climate scientist to know this for a falsehood. Very clearly, irrigation came after the warming that ended the last Ice Age, not before.

61 posted on 03/29/2006 5:50:48 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: gobucks
If it wasn't for G. W. Bush, and all evil republicans, especially the religious variety, this problem and all other problems could be fixed, especially if Hillary gets elected.

Incorrect. Neither political party has demonstrated the political will or intellectual skill to address the problem effectively.

(Happy now?)

62 posted on 03/29/2006 7:41:26 AM PST by cogitator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: slowhandluke

I thought I was pretty clear that this involved the warm-up circa 7000 BC or thereabouts, and not the period that involved the melting of the Antarctic and North American ice caps.


63 posted on 03/29/2006 6:04:34 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 61 | View Replies]

To: muawiyah
I thought I was pretty clear that this involved the warm-up circa 7000 BC or thereabouts, and not the period that involved the melting of the Antarctic and North American ice caps.

You were clear, but let me be clear in that this fails into the 'post hoc propter hoc' fallacy. You postulate that irrigation causes recent warming, yet it didn't cause the much larger, less recent warming. So, other than being coincidentally close in time, you have no reason to causally associate the warming and irrigation, as the association of irrigation and warming appears to be a one-time thing.

You also haven't show that irrigation doesn't follow warming, since it's obviously easier to irrigate with water than ice. Or that warming allowed more humans which allowed more irrigation. Or that warming made some areas drier thus needing more irrigation.

For your line of argument, you do have to decide what ended the ice age and show that it is not also responsible for the recent slower warming. After all, if you take ice out of the freezer, it doesn't all melt immediately, it takes time. Maybe we are just in the last slow stage of the post Ice Age warming. This is more plausible than the link to irrigation and so should be addressed in your argument.

64 posted on 03/30/2006 6:05:57 AM PST by slowhandluke (It's hard work to be cynical enough in this age)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: slowhandluke
I pointed to a piece in Scientific American by a Brit researcher who contends we've been in a "cool down" for the last 7,000 or so years but, because of the development of agriculture, we, human beings, have been able to stave off the new glaciation.

He identifies global cooldowns that coincide with vast loss of human life, e.g. the great dieoff of American Indians in the 1500-1600 period. He also points to previous warming periods that coincide with the development of agriculture.

As you undoubtedly know from research into other interglacial periods we should have massive glaciers building up on Baffin Island by this time.

65 posted on 03/30/2006 1:18:40 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: slowhandluke
BTW, the Sahara desert exists because, lo and behold, it cooled down and the monsoon rains were no longer pulled in off the ocean.

There are proposals to warm up the Sahara which will bring back the monsoons.

66 posted on 03/30/2006 1:20:56 PM PST by muawiyah (-)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: capt. norm
If weather/climate research were as simple as you make it our to be, we'd already have our forecast for Easter 2020.

Of course weather and climate are not the same thing. Weather is a relatively short time period affair, with changes more or less averaging out over longer periods. The lack of complete averaging over those longer periods is climate change. Weather is also a geographically limited thing, while climate may also be, but for larger regions. Obviously the two are related and an understanding of one will help with understanding of the other. Weather is probably the more difficult theoretical problem, but climate has more unknowns, some of them quite likely of the "unknown unknown" variety.

67 posted on 03/31/2006 10:35:42 AM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
Of course weather and climate are not the same thing.

Thank you, but I have a full education in meteorology and climatology.

In short, I already knew that.

What I'm saying is that water vapor/cloud cycle is elusive to all of our models, immediate, long range, climate.

If we were able to make it work in even one of these models, that technology could be, and would be to enhance the others.

It has not happened...and I work right here where it should be happening.

You, my friend, are "talking through your hat".

68 posted on 03/31/2006 10:42:33 AM PST by capt. norm (If you can't make a mistake, you can't make anything.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: jjmcgo
It's probably a good guess that the scientist DIDN'T say the most potent greenhouse gas is a liquid.

Water is water, whether in the solid (ice), liquid, or gas (water vapor) state.

69 posted on 03/31/2006 6:35:47 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: capt. norm
Thank you, but I have a full education in meteorology and climatology.

In short, I already knew that.

I know you did, but others might not, and you didn't make it clear.

What I'm saying is that water vapor/cloud cycle is elusive to all of our models, immediate, long range, climate.

If we were able to make it work in even one of these models, that technology could be, and would be to enhance the others.

It has not happened...and I work right here where it should be happening.

Now I understand your point.

It's so much better when we explain what we mean, rather than standing on our particular expertise.

70 posted on 03/31/2006 6:44:02 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum

Oh crap! Now they're going to ban water.


71 posted on 03/31/2006 6:45:33 PM PST by Modok
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: El Gato
It's so much better when we explain what we mean, rather than standing on our particular expertise.

Which I guess I didn't do too well either.

Different phenomena have different characteristic time scales. What's important in the short term, may or may not be so important in the long term. Alternatively, there may be an "outer loop" that controls the long term effects, and an inner loop which controls shorter term effects. (Oversimplifying of course, there may be multiple loops and their relationship may be more complex than just inner and outer, particularly if the system is nonlinear).

It may also be that the inner loop(s) must be stable for the outer loop(s) to be stable, or it may not. I've seen and modeled both sorts of system.

72 posted on 03/31/2006 6:50:04 PM PST by El Gato
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: El Gato

I'm sorry but your correction to my post is in itself, incorrect.
Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary: "the liquid that ..."
water is a liquid
ice is a solid
steam (or water vapor) is a gas


73 posted on 04/03/2006 11:27:53 AM PDT by jjmcgo (Patriarch of the Occident since March 1, 2006)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: E. Pluribus Unum
..the apparent rise in average global temperature recorded by scientists over the last hundred years or so could be due to atmospheric changes that are not connected to human...

The results are are actually caused by human measurement. Most temp reading are taken from inside or very close to cities. Many of these are taken at airports where temps can be upwards of 10 to 15 degrees different than a mile down the road. The culprit? Concrete, and lots of it. Cities act like heat sinks and are generally hotter than outside the city. Since cities around the world are growing, the range of where the measurements are taken has increased. In short, the data is terribly skewed toward the hotter side of things.

74 posted on 04/03/2006 11:41:50 AM PDT by numberonepal (Don't Even Think About Treading On Me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


75 posted on 01/31/2010 6:14:40 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Happy New Year! Freedom is Priceless.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-75 last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson