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Congress Told of More ATF Abuses, Reforms Suggested
CNSNews.com ^ | March 29, 2006 | Jeff Johnson

Posted on 03/29/2006 12:40:56 PM PST by neverdem

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1 posted on 03/29/2006 12:40:58 PM PST by neverdem
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To: Joe Brower
BANG! JBT PING
2 posted on 03/29/2006 12:42:27 PM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: neverdem

Well, what do you expect?


3 posted on 03/29/2006 12:45:02 PM PST by Jason_b
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To: neverdem
Lara said he is still baffled by the agency's actions.

That's like an IRS agent being baffled about his home being seized.

4 posted on 03/29/2006 12:45:16 PM PST by Lunatic Fringe (http://ntxsolutions.com)
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To: neverdem

All that clipping BATF wings will do is make them meaner and sneakier. I don't believe they would ever hire anyone who is not opposed to RKBA.


5 posted on 03/29/2006 12:45:39 PM PST by SWAMPSNIPER
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To: neverdem

make it simple. ATF demands 100% perfection. check their records, if ONE record of theirs is out of order, indict them all.


6 posted on 03/29/2006 12:46:24 PM PST by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: neverdem

Audrey Stucko, Deputy Assistant Director for ATF, is willful idiot.

Willful means just shy of intentional --- and more than reckless.

Fire her.


7 posted on 03/29/2006 12:47:56 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Many at FR would respond to Christ "Darn right, I'll cast the first stone!")
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To: neverdem
Always amazes me that the ATF has all kinds of time and money to go after misspellings, and yet no one has time to check the immigration status of anyone.
8 posted on 03/29/2006 12:48:37 PM PST by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: AAABEST; wku man; SLB; Travis McGee; Squantos; Shooter 2.5; The Old Hoosier; xrp; freedomlover; ...
More news about our favorite people.

Click the Gadsden flag for pro-gun resources!

9 posted on 03/29/2006 12:49:55 PM PST by Joe Brower (The Constitution defines Conservatism. *NRA*)
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To: neverdem
The guy should consider himself a little poorer but lucky!

Lucky they didn't shoot him or his female friend.

Lucky the AFT didn't burn his home down with him and his family in it.

God help anyone that runs up against these idiots.

I sure hope the AFT don't have a budget review coming up soon.

10 posted on 03/29/2006 12:50:13 PM PST by TexasCajun
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To: neverdem
Congress Told of More ATF Abuses, Reforms Suggested

Suggested? Suggested!? I thought Federal Agencies worked for Congress (which in turn are supposed to work for Us).

Silly me.

11 posted on 03/29/2006 12:51:02 PM PST by CrawDaddyCA (There is no such thing as a fair fight. Thou shall win at all costs!!)
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To: neverdem
"On my first day back to work I was given a 40-hour suspension without pay for 'criminal activity' because I had been indicted," Lara continued. "My professional career is shot. It's now been three years after the event and I am still a patrol lieutenant. It was made clear to me when I returned to work that I would never see any advancement."

Why is the Tuscon PD being so harsh on him if he was cleared of the charges?
12 posted on 03/29/2006 12:54:09 PM PST by Welsh Rabbit
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To: neverdem
The level of competence in ATF management seems on a par with what would be required to separate garbage at the local city dump.

The ATF representative present at the hearing did not address Lara's case, but Kristen Rand, legislative director for the anti-gun Violence Policy Center, did. "Mr. [sic] Lara's situation sounds extremely unpleasant," Rand said, "but we should be careful not to just legislate based on one anecdote."

What a jackass. Someone should rip this idiot's livelihood out from under him and give it to the abused party.

13 posted on 03/29/2006 12:55:47 PM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: neverdem
"Under the Gun Control Act, license revocation may be undertaken for any willful violation of the law or regulations," Stucko said. "The term 'willful' is not defined in the law."

It may not be defined in the law, but it is defined in the dictionary. Willful is an adjective meaning "obstinately and often perversely self-willed; done deliberately; intentional."

Thus, an error (such as a clerical error) is by definition not willful. On the other hand, the ATF's behavior as described in the article does appear to be willful.

14 posted on 03/29/2006 12:59:57 PM PST by Logophile
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To: neverdem

After watching these SOB's for over 20 years I'm convinced the agency should be abolished, its staff fired and its responsibilities turned over to the FBI.


15 posted on 03/29/2006 1:03:08 PM PST by sailor4321
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To: neverdem

We need to have the next president come in and clean house at the ATF. Then tell the new people (reduced in number) that the rules have changed. They are to justify the expenses of any investigations, any cases they persue that are like what happened to the officer or the dealer and the investigators/agency will be punished, etc. Punishment will be swift and brutal.

Then turn to the IRS and do the same and so on down the line.


16 posted on 03/29/2006 1:04:02 PM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: Joe Brower
Be Ever Vigilant!


17 posted on 03/29/2006 1:12:19 PM PST by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: neverdem
Stucko said. "The term 'willful' is not defined in the law."

What an idiot! How can you then prosecute for something not defined by law? Jerks cannot have it both ways.

The sooner they are disbanded the better.

18 posted on 03/29/2006 1:17:51 PM PST by beltfed308 (Cloth or link. Happiness is a perfect trunnion.)
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To: neverdem
I know personally of a gunsmith operating from his home who was harrassed by repeated surprise BATF inspections until he finally gave up. (Cost me, too, because he was my smith and a damn good one.) This was triumphantly reported to D.C. as a small-time "dealer" (he sold no guns, the FFL was for shipping) now out of business and triumphantly reported to the country by the Brady Campaign as the street being safer because of it.

It's a corporate culture issue, IMHO, an assumption of "us vs. them" and it was fed by hirings especially during the notoriously gun-owner-hating Clinton administration. Many of these are now in positions of middle management and being federal employees essentially untouchable, and they know it.

One would not expect an inspector of the Bureau of Mines to hate miners and believe that there should be no mining done - he or she probably wouldn't get very far. A farming inspector who hated farms and farmers and wanted them all to go away probably wouldn't either. A BATF agent who hates gun owners and wants to make life as difficult as possible for them is, on the other hand, likely to be promoted. This is a pathological corporate culture.

Keep an eye on these people - remember the names. Should, God forbid, the Dems win big we're going to be seeing lots of them, and they don't like us.

19 posted on 03/29/2006 1:18:43 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: TexasCajun

What was it that G. Gordon Liddy advised to anyone who is so unfortunate as to face the un-Constitutional actions of those "jackbooted thugs"? I'd reprint his advice but one of the mods here would get all in a dither over it. But it remains as good advice. The Second Amendment was written to protect us from just the sort of behavior the ATF carries out as SOP.


20 posted on 03/29/2006 1:18:59 PM PST by PeterFinn (Anita Bryant was right!)
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To: Welsh Rabbit

He is the sacrificial lamb; if the Tuscon PD takes a benevolent attitude toward him now the BATF will began to take an unhealthy interest in the department. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". If the BATF is surveilling you how do you get a credible drop and what happens when you get caught with it?????????


21 posted on 03/29/2006 1:19:03 PM PST by kublia khan (Absolute war brings total victory)
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To: Joe Brower
Unbelievable.

They go after a guy, who's sworn to uphold the law and serve his community, and is still pursued by the ATF when it was obvious he did nothing wrong.

Not only that, he assumes a huge debt, he gets his "job" back, and gets b*tch slapped with a suspension by the City with whom he swore to protect.

So much for playing by the rules.

22 posted on 03/29/2006 1:22:46 PM PST by kstewskis ("I don't know what I know, but I know that it's big".....Jerry Fletcher)
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To: neverdem

Ever since ATF came into being one of its primary aims has been to restrict legal trafficing in firearms by making FFL licensing as close to impossible as it could while working to revoke as many existing FFL licenses as possible. Law abiding citizens are the targets, of course, as it is so much easier to nail people who are open and above-board in their dealings than it is to actually confront criminals. Also safer as they are less likely to open fire on you when you storm their business or residence.

What is likely to happen is that once the law-abiding get a load of what the ATF is all about many will decide that the law can go to he## and start dealing without informing the government of what they are doing. This will create a whole new batch of "criminals" for the ATF to chase giving them more cause to ask for even more draconian regulations and laws and so it goes round-and-round until they get what they want - a de facto repeal of the 2nd Amendment. I would not be in the least surprised that an underground firearms network consisting of otherwise law-abiding citizens already exists and is growing.


23 posted on 03/29/2006 1:23:53 PM PST by scory
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To: PeterFinn

Headshot.


24 posted on 03/29/2006 1:29:12 PM PST by green iguana
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To: absolootezer0
make it simple. ATF demands 100% perfection. check their records, if ONE record of theirs is out of order, indict them all.

If that were possible, they'd all be in jail, or out by now, but permanently barred from possessing firearms, including in their work.

25 posted on 03/29/2006 1:30:26 PM PST by El Gato
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To: neverdem

Disband the ATF. They have no use.


26 posted on 03/29/2006 1:30:31 PM PST by Ptarmigan (Proud bunny hater and killer)
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To: Ptarmigan

don't disband.. transfer them all to border patrol. if they keep the same policies and procedures, we'll never have another illegal immigrant again.


27 posted on 03/29/2006 1:33:55 PM PST by absolootezer0 ("My God, why have you forsaken us.. no wait, its the liberals that have forsaken you... my bad")
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To: TexasCajun
Lucky the AFT didn't burn his home down with him and his family in it.

Or stomp his wife's cat to death while searching his home.

28 posted on 03/29/2006 1:34:14 PM PST by Centurion2000 (Islam's true face: http://makeashorterlink.com/?J169127BC)
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To: sailor4321
the agency should be abolished, its staff fired and its responsibilities turned over to the FBI abolished, as well.
29 posted on 03/29/2006 1:35:58 PM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: absolootezer0
Good point! I never thought of that. Stupid me! D'OH!
30 posted on 03/29/2006 1:36:54 PM PST by Ptarmigan (Proud bunny hater and killer)
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To: Joe Brower
"More news about our favorite people.

Sickening, but not surprising.

Massive legal resources are but another tool in the JBT arsenal.

While I'm sure the BATFags tactics team would much rather have the adrenalin rush associated with a 'rightous raid' to slap down the peasants, they like to let their legal staffs get in on the fun.

Backed by the full faith and resources of the US Govt, the BATFag legal teams glean equal satisfaction by driving a 'citizen' to financial ruin, and by example teaching the rest of us 'citizens' a lesson in who's boss.
(Note: see Waco and Ruby Ridge)

Note to Claire: Is it time yet?

Thanks for the ping JB.

Stand Fast

/jasper

31 posted on 03/29/2006 1:37:16 PM PST by Jasper (Stand Fast, Craigellachie !)
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To: neverdem

If you had an audit of the BATF internal and prosecutorial paperwork, I'd wager that they would do far worse than 90% accuracy. It would be interesting to see if the BATF could be found as nearly compliant as most FFL dealers.


32 posted on 03/29/2006 1:37:43 PM PST by Ghengis (Alexander was a wuss!)
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To: TexasCajun
Lucky the AFT didn't burn his home down with him and his family in it

How did the American Federation of Teachers (AFT) get involved in this matter? While they do seem to be anti-arms rights, I don't think they are out burning down gun owners houses, yet that is.

:)

33 posted on 03/29/2006 1:38:08 PM PST by El Gato
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To: El Gato
Hey! I stutter(multiple post) and am dyslectic(misspell)!

Just be glad I don't have Tourettes Syndrome! hehe

34 posted on 03/29/2006 1:43:21 PM PST by TexasCajun
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To: neverdem

35 posted on 03/29/2006 1:45:14 PM PST by Doomonyou (FR doesn't suffer fools lightly.)
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To: sailor4321
After watching these SOB's for over 20 years I'm convinced the agency should be abolished, its staff fired and its responsibilities turned over to the FBI.

Remember, it wasn't the BATFE that burned down the "compound" in Waco, it was the FBI. The BATFE didn't shoot Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge, Lon Horiuchi of the FBI did. Now in both cases the BATF was the instigator of the "action", but the FBI provided the "muscle". Not that the BATF hasn't stomped a few kittens and slammed a few pregnant ladies up against a few walls, causing them to lose their babies.

Still, you might want to rethink that last part. How about we just eliminate the BATFE and the laws which they enforce. Turn the explosives safety stuff over to OSHA and/or the EPA and just eliminate the rest of the Unconstitutional laws they enforce. (They no longer collect the taxes on the "A" and "T", since they were moved to Justice from Treasury in the Homeland Security reorganization).

36 posted on 03/29/2006 1:45:49 PM PST by El Gato
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To: neverdem

You would think Waco would have been evidence enough.


37 posted on 03/29/2006 1:49:58 PM PST by thoughtomator (Since all politicians understand is money, I donate ONLY to those who oppose illegal immigration)
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To: looscnnn

And that's because our current President, elected with the overwhelming support of the RKBA lobby, is not able to fix anything larger than a burnt out light bulb? Why the pass for W? He should fix this. He's a "R" with two "R" houses to pass his laws.


38 posted on 03/29/2006 2:00:09 PM PST by Jack Black
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To: Doomonyou; Travis McGee

McGee BTT.

39 posted on 03/29/2006 2:00:25 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Welsh Rabbit

Well, Tucson and presumably the Tucson PD is full of liberal Democrats. Therefore what he was probably guilty of was NOT committing a crime. Democrats only coddle actual criminals.


40 posted on 03/29/2006 2:03:19 PM PST by Still Thinking (Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
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To: DoughtyOne

That's an insult to garbage separators everywhere. If I were one, I'd challenge you to a duel.


41 posted on 03/29/2006 2:04:58 PM PST by Still Thinking (Disregard the law of unintended consequences at your own risk.)
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To: neverdem

Is this the same congress that is going to 'reform' illegal immigration?


42 posted on 03/29/2006 2:06:10 PM PST by antaresequity (PUSH 1 FOR ENGLISH - PUSH 2 TO BE DEPORTED)
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To: Billthedrill; Travis McGee

Read it! Great book, waiting, waiting, waiting for the sequal to print.


43 posted on 03/29/2006 2:11:27 PM PST by Doomonyou (FR doesn't suffer fools lightly.)
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To: Billthedrill
This is a pathological corporate culture.

Correction: pathological government culture. Corporations have nothing to do with it.

44 posted on 03/29/2006 2:15:21 PM PST by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: sailor4321
It looked like they were due for a downsize about the end of 1992, but then they were "ambushed" by some li'l ol' church group in Texas, (or so they claimed). The FeeBIes came in and hauled their water at the end of that one, during a new administration, and some gal named Reno got a new nickname.

From there, they have found incident after incident to somehow justify their crusade on the RKBA, all funded by our tax dollars, naturally.

I guess the game kept them from ending up as mall security guards somewhere, 'cause you gotta have a Law Degree to be a FeeBIe, and their cannons were a bit loose for the DEA deck.

Which leaves what? Bank guard? Not enough jizz for those operators.

They 'saved' their jobs and only had to kill 82 people to do it.

45 posted on 03/29/2006 2:22:14 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Welsh Rabbit
Why is the Tuscon PD being so harsh on him if he was cleared of the charges?

How many 'throw down' weapons are legal or just plain hot? Think about it. Once they start sniffing buttcracks everyone in the PD is going to be trying to CYA. The guy is going to be a pariah instinctively with the others, out of self-preservation.

46 posted on 03/29/2006 2:26:30 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: looscnnn
They are to justify the expenses of any investigations,

WHoa! Careful, there. They "justified" Waco, at least enough to get the Senate Hearing whitewash to stick.

That gives them more 'license' in their minds, not less, 'cause things will be "justified".

Put Hillary at the top and anything goes.

47 posted on 03/29/2006 2:29:52 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Jack Black

I am not giving him a pass, I am disappointed in him because he has not done so as of yet and these issues have been going on and known for longer than he has been the President. Obviously he won't do it, so it will need to fall on the next President.


48 posted on 03/29/2006 2:37:24 PM PST by looscnnn ("Olestra (Olean) applications causes memory leaks" PC Confusious)
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To: Still Thinking

I knew that was coming. I shoulda had money on it. LOL


49 posted on 03/29/2006 2:46:42 PM PST by DoughtyOne (If you don't want to be lumped in with those who commit violence in your name, take steps to end it.)
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To: Billthedrill; Joe Brower

50 posted on 03/29/2006 2:48:12 PM PST by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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