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Islam humiliates religious freedom of Christians and human rights of Muslims. Itís time for change
AsiaNews.it ^ | 3/29/2006 | Samir Khalil Samir

Posted on 03/29/2006 3:28:33 PM PST by Dark Skies

Rome (AsiaNews) – Abdul Rahman, the Afghan who converted from Islam to Christianity, was released from prison with a juridical ploy: deemed to be mentally unfit and thus incapable of undergoing trial, he was able to avoid the death penalty foreseen by sharia in the case of apostasy. But his ordeal is just one case in tens of thousands each year. In Egypt alone there are at least 10,000 Muslims who convert to Christianity each year. At the same time, there are at least 12,000 Christians who become Muslim.

This phenomenon of conversions from Christianity to Islam is rampant throughout the Middle East and in the world. Fundamentalist violence that currently characterizes the Muslim world brings many to ask themselves: can such a violent religion truly come from God? But what is the lot of former Muslims? That of having to flee, hide, emigrate.

A friend of mine who wanted to be baptized was forced to flee from his university friends because one day they found a pocket-sized Gospel in his room. They began to threaten him with death and he fled, abandoning his university studies.

The solution found in Afghanistan is the best one, but is a compromise. It must serve to lead us to a radical question: what takes precedence in Islam? Internationally recognized human rights or Islamic sharia? And if sharia runs counters to human rights, is it not time that the international community condemns it? And if sharia is inscribed – as fundamentalists maintain – in the Koran, there are two things to consider: either the Koran denies human rights, or it must be reread to purge it of false and violent incrustations.

Islam: politics or religion?

According to Afghan law, Abdul Rahman was to have been killed for his apostasy. Sharia is based on the Koran and on the Islamic tradition of the Hadith (Mohammad’s sayings). There are 14 verses in the Koran which speak of those who recant Islamic faith. In 7 of these cases, there is no mention of punishment; the other 7 allude to punishment, not however in this life, but in heaven. One verse speaks of eternal flames; another of the curse of God, angels and men; another speaks of a “painful” punishment. Only one of the Koran’s verses (that of “penitence” 9, 74) call for a painful punishment in this world and the next.

According to Muslim jurists, the death penalty can be decreed only if the Koran explicitly foresees it (hudud). Lacking this, one turns to Mohammad’s sayings. One of these sayings – and just one – states that death is required in 3 cases of sin, one of which is apostasy.

Historically speaking, the term “apostasy” is used for the first time, ambiguously, after Mohammad’s death. Certain Arab tribes which had submitted (islamo, in Arabic) to the new faith, decided to “back out” (irqed, the same verb that refers to apostasy). Abu Bakr, the first successor, attempts to stop these tribes, fearing that others will “back out” as well, and battles them. Many of the Prophet’s companions disapproved of this. But once Abu Bakr brings these rebel tribes back to the Islamic fold, he gains general approval. Since them, this ambiguous term, “to back out, to draw back”, is applied to all those who seek to abandon the fold, the Islam family.

There are several verses from the Koran (Ch. II, 191-193) that everyone uses in such cases, verse 191 containing very dangerous words. “Kill [God’s enemies] wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, for” – and here one finds the dangerous word – “subversion is severer than slaughter.” And then, in verse 193, “And fight with them until there is no persecution, and religion should be only for God.” This keyword, “subversion” (in Arabic fitnah), is the word used in all cases to justify a killing. In Iran, it is also used against homosexuals. To kill a subversive is considered a “lesser evil” with respect to “subversion” which, by spreading, can become a dangerous phenomenon.

Muhammad Chalabi, the head of Al Ahzar in the 1950s, used to say “We do not force the apostate to return to Islam, so as to not contradict the word of God which prohibits any constriction on faith. But we leave him the opportunity to return voluntarily. If he does not return, he must be killed because he is an instrument of subversion (fitnah) and opens the door to pagans to attack Islam and to sow doubt among Muslims. The apostate is therefore declaredly at war with Islam even if he does not lift a sword against Muslims.” This is the usual thinking in Islam.

Last week in Cairo, I was speaking to some Muslims about the Abdul Rahman question. And they told me that Westerners too do the same thing. “Let’s suppose,” they say, “that one of you passes over to the enemy’s side and relays state secrets to the enemy. Do you not kill him? Does he not deserve a radical punishment? The apostate betrays the community!” My answer: What you say applies to the political domain, not the religious. Plus, we Christians are not terribly in favour of the death penalty.”

My Muslim friends conclude. “The Umma must be defended from attacks against Islam.” I answer, “But Abdul Rahman did not condemn anyone. He is a peaceful man.” They reply with the same words as the head of Al Ahzar. “Even if he does not life a sword, the apostate is a subversive.”

It is worth noting that:

a) Islam presents itself as one way street: one can enter but one cannot exit;

b) the Islamic world is not at all concerned with the question of freedom of conscience;

c) Islam reasons on itself in political terms.

But this gives rise to an enormous question: if Islam is a political project, a movement that uses even the most extreme violence, then it must be fought politically. And, most of all, it would be necessary to no longer call it a religion, a spiritual movement that helps man to create peace. There is in fact in Islam a strong ambiguity to which attention must be drawn: at times, Muslims speak in spiritual terms (“Islam means peace (salam), coexistence, tolerance etc…”); other times, they act politically, justifying violent choices.

Sharia is against human rights

If sharia kills a man who changes religion, then it must be condemned and cannot be placed at the basis of national constitutions. If sharia is the principle inspiring law, any ideal of coexistence is destroyed and, even more, there will be a contradiction with the U.N. declaration on human rights, approved in 1948 by almost all Muslim countries.

Article 18 of the declaration states: “Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.”

Well then, let’s have a look at the news that is arriving from Muslim countries: this article is violated every day, as AsiaNews’ records often show. House churches are destroyed in Indonesia; in Algeria, there is a prohibition against public manifestations of faith; anyone who invites anyone to leave Islam is threatened with death in all Muslim countries. There is excitement at the moment in the West for the successful outcome in Abdul Rahman’s case, but the compromise that was reached masks the real problem: the roots of violence vis-à-vis apostasy is contained in the Koran and in Islamic tradition, so much so that one can speak of the incompatibility between human rights and rights foreseen by the Koran.

The conclusion is that a choice is needed in the Islamic world, between saying that traditional texts and the Koran are unacceptable documents, contrary to human dignity and reinterpreting the Koran, by dropping the violent aspects which are tied to outmoded situations.

We cannot keep silent or continue to speak of Islam in an ambiguous fashion, defining Islam as a religion that “speaks of peace and tolerance,” hiding the verses that encourage violence and brutal killings. Such an ambiguous behaviour is shameful to those who adopt it and to those who keep silent.

The West must not keep silent>

I say this out of affection and sympathy towards Muslims. Many Muslim friends find themselves at difficulty with the texts of Islam and do not know what to say. If they dare criticize texts they are immediately accused of apostasy and blasphemy. There are tens of thousands of cases in the Arab and Islamic world: Salman Rushdie, Talima Nazrin, Sarag Foda (Egyptian agnostic who had criticized Islam and was murdered); Naguib Mahfuz, who risked death in 1995 for apostasy, so he had to recant. Then there is the case of Nasr Abu Zaid, who was removed from his university teaching post and even had his wife taken from him: she was forced to divorce from him, as he could no longer be married to a Muslim woman, having been condemned for apostasy. They both eventually fled to Holland. We cannot overlook all these aberrations by saying: it takes patience, Islam was born many centuries after Christianity; it still has a lot of road to cover… This would be like saying that Islam is a religion of the disabled! Instead, Muslims include in their ranks great figures, scientists, intellectuals. The fact is that the time has come for the West to speak truthfully for the sake of Muslims themselves. The West cites human rights every day, but when it runs up to cases such as these, where the highest offense to human rights is at play – life and freedom of conscience – Western governments keep silent. The most typical case is that of Saudi Arabia, which tramples all human rights, even those of its own people, and no one says anything. The West has lost a lot of credibility in the Islamic world, due to acts contrary to human rights, such as preventive wars, economic injustices, the immorality of Western laws, etc. The time has come for a choice. If there is incompatibility between human rights and the rights set out in the Koran, then – I’m sorry to say – the Koran must be condemned; or else it must be said that our understanding of the Koran puts us against human rights and freedom of conscience, and so the interpretation must change. One thing is certain: we can no longer keep silent. The European bishops decided in recent days to dedicate the forthcoming year to studying the problems of Islam in Europe and Islam in the world, relations of European Union countries with Muslim-majority countries, from the perspective of international justice and reciprocity. But if European countries keep silent, reciprocity can never be requested.

Muslims alone cannot change anything. If Afghanistan were an isolated country, with no relations with the West, Abdul Rahman would have been killed. Muslims with a profound awareness of human rights are a minority. The Egyptian branch of Amnesty International, for example, publishes two monthly magazines in Arabic, but it not able to counterbalance the fundamentalist trend. It is necessary that the international community intervenes with external pressure. In the case of human rights, it is by no means a question of intrusion. It is necessary to arrive at serious measures: exclusion from the U.N. of those who do not respect the Charter on human rights, economic boycotts, etc. Perhaps, with a boycott, certain countries could initially take any even harder line, but in the long run countries and hundreds of millions of people could be saved from terrible oppression.

The human rights problem in the Islamic world is not tied only to apostasy. Even people who want to go on living in Islam are subjected to extraordinary social pressure. An example: many young women who live in Egypt today wear headscarves. It is said that they do so willingly. But social pressure is such that, if a girl goes out without a headscarf, all her neighbours begin to say: aren’t you ashamed? Your daughter has no shame. Thus even Christian women in the end say: we prefer to put on a headscarf for the sake of peace and quiet! Apostasy is just the tip of the iceberg of an enormous problem: to this very day, there are a billion people in the Islamic world constrained in an ideological-religious prison, which denies their fundamental human rights. This deformation is pushing a lot of people away from Islamic faith. In Teheran, young people are distancing themselves ever more from Islam, looking for truth in other religions: they can no longer put up with this justification for violence. It is perhaps for this reason that, in Iran, all Christian web-sites are censured or blacked out.

The suffering of the Islamic world is increased by globalized information. Thanks to television, radio and internet, the ideas of freedom, human rights are spreading and this increases the desire and frustration of Muslims, who see “no future” for themselves or their families. It is necessary that those who live in Islamic countries find not only bread, but also human rights. If Europe does not work for this, all the lectures on globalization are just chatter. Keeping silent is an injustice against millions of people. The time has come to speak out, not for attacking, but for love.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: deathcult; islam; muslims; ropma
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1 posted on 03/29/2006 3:28:36 PM PST by Dark Skies
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To: Dark Skies
Bears repeating...

Muslims alone cannot change anything. If Afghanistan were an isolated country, with no relations with the West, Abdul Rahman would have been killed. Muslims with a profound awareness of human rights are a minority.

2 posted on 03/29/2006 3:30:10 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: Dark Skies

Right on!


3 posted on 03/29/2006 3:31:16 PM PST by popdonnelly
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To: Dark Skies
This is an interesting analysis; perhaps it's part of Bush's "strategery". If you isolate and then weaken the rabid, suppressive and perverted aspects of Islam, I'm willing to wager that a whole lot more Muslims would convert to pretty much ANY other religion.

It's right now though that a significant number of them won't simply convert because of the threat of death that hangs over them.

4 posted on 03/29/2006 3:33:42 PM PST by kromike
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To: Dark Skies
Worship based on fear and teror is not true worship.

For God so loved the world that He sent His only Son....

5 posted on 03/29/2006 3:36:47 PM PST by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: Dark Skies

Islam is like the roach motel. Muslims get in, but they can't get out.


6 posted on 03/29/2006 3:38:50 PM PST by Always Right
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To: Dark Skies

PING


7 posted on 03/29/2006 3:38:56 PM PST by bcsco ("He who is wedded to the spirit of the age is soon a widower" - Anonymous)
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To: Dark Skies

So why is it that we continue to spend billions of dollars and spill American BLOOD, to support "Democratic, Free", countries AFTER they have voted to have constitutions that state....

NO LAW SHALL CONTRADICT ISLAM

?


8 posted on 03/29/2006 3:42:53 PM PST by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
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To: Dark Skies

So when does the 10th Crusade start?


9 posted on 03/29/2006 3:43:15 PM PST by MNJohnnie (The lame shall walk, the blind shall see, alas the press remains invincible in their ignorance.)
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To: All
Keeping silent is an injustice against millions of people. The time has come to speak out, not for attacking, but for love.

Will someone please tell this to the Prez and Condi...bending the truth for PC helps no one! It placates the enemy and abandons those trying to reform or escape islam.

10 posted on 03/29/2006 3:44:26 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: MNJohnnie

11 posted on 03/29/2006 3:46:09 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: Dark Skies

“Let’s suppose,” they say, “that one of you passes over to the enemy’s side and relays state secrets to the enemy. Do you not kill him? Does he not deserve a radical punishment? The apostate betrays the community!”

Which reinforces the fact, a fact Muslims try to deny, that they view all non-Muslims as an "enemy".


12 posted on 03/29/2006 3:46:50 PM PST by Bob J (RIGHTALK.com...a conservative alternative to NPR!)
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To: Bob J
You raise a very interesting point. Since islam is both religious and secular...it covers all the bases.

Vy clever design...but it is under attack by modernity and must either destroy the modern world or die (I guess it could change but there has been no substantive evidence of that yet).

13 posted on 03/29/2006 3:51:04 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: Dark Skies
...Islam reasons on itself in political terms.

But this gives rise to an enormous question: if Islam is a political project, a movement that uses even the most extreme violence, then it must be fought politically. And, most of all, it would be necessary to no longer call it a religion, a spiritual movement that helps man to create peace...

14 posted on 03/29/2006 3:58:52 PM PST by Albion Wilde (Total healing for Gavin IJN)
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To: kromike

I totally agree with you. I have been urging the Bush admin for a year or more to take out the crazy mullas and imams. They are the ones who "run" things and are the main source of murder and terror over the "flock". If the imams were removed, and removed and removed...islam would start to die because, IMO, most of the women would leave in the first hours of freedom from the pain of death.


15 posted on 03/29/2006 4:04:50 PM PST by B.O. Plenty (Islam, liberalism and abortions are terminal..)
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To: Albion Wilde

I agree in that it certainly needs to be bisected and the two parts attacked differently. That said, the religious aspect, even without the secular, is powerful in its denial of basic human rights. IMO, all aspects of islam need to be attacked and exposed.


16 posted on 03/29/2006 4:06:03 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...
Excellent post! Bookmarked for future reference.

Catholic Ping - Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list

Eastern Catholic Ping List
Please freepmail me if you want on/off this list


17 posted on 03/29/2006 4:08:18 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: Dark Skies

"U.N. declaration on human rights, approved in 1948 by almost all Muslim countries."

The islam-o-nazis are still laughing.


18 posted on 03/29/2006 4:10:00 PM PST by dynachrome ("Where am I? Where am I going? Why am I in a handbasket?")
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To: SJackson

Ping!


19 posted on 03/29/2006 4:14:42 PM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: MNJohnnie
A 10th crusade would not be necessary. Removing the lunatic imams and mullas would do the trick IMO.

Unfortunately, our "leaders" are so infested with political correctness that going after the people that are causing the problems don't seem to be in the cards at this time.

It may take another 911 or two before the situation becomes "serious" enough to really go after the "perps"

20 posted on 03/29/2006 4:21:52 PM PST by B.O. Plenty (Islam, liberalism and abortions are terminal..)
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To: Dark Skies
,And, most of all, it would be necessary to no longer call it a religion, a spiritual movement that helps man to create peace.

Why would anyone conclude that religion is a spiritual movement that helps man to create peace.

Islam certainly isn't that type of religion; and here is a second opinion from another very popular religion:
Matt ch 10- [33] But he that shall deny me before men, I will also deny him before my Father who is in heaven. [34] Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. [35] For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. [36] And as a man's enemies shall be they of his own household.

21 posted on 03/29/2006 4:30:25 PM PST by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse the Bushies with the dumb Republicans - Capt. Tom)
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To: TomasUSMC

Islam itself needs to be classified as a terrorist group and then treated accordingly.


22 posted on 03/29/2006 4:32:24 PM PST by diverteach
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To: Dark Skies
Will someone please tell this to the Prez and Condi...bending the truth for PC helps no one!

The day that a president (any president) says that Islam promotes violence is the first day of suicide bombers in our shopping malls.

It's a very good thing you are nowhere near the levers of power in this country.

23 posted on 03/29/2006 4:33:48 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: B.O. Plenty
A 10th crusade would not be necessary. Removing the lunatic imams and mullas would do the trick IMO.

And when Islamic radicals took out the Pope and the Dali Lama in revenge, you'd have your 10th crusade.

24 posted on 03/29/2006 4:35:44 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: B.O. Plenty

WOULD removing the crazy,evil mullahs and imams be enough, really?
Are they not like crooked,corrupt politicians? Do they not have supporters who put them where they are, and keep them there?
Do the supporters who spat forth such evil just go away?
Dream on.


25 posted on 03/29/2006 4:39:33 PM PST by ClearBlueSky (Whenever someone says it's not about Islam-it's about Islam. Jesus loves you, Allah wants you dead!)
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To: sinkspur
The day that a president (any president) says that Islam promotes violence is the first day of suicide bombers in our shopping malls.

Oh my goodness...wouldn't want to die for the Truth would we.

You have convinced me...appeasement for everyone!

I for one would rather be a dead Christian than a living dhimmi.

But of course that is just my opinion...cowards and appeasers will be alive when the only other living things are roaches.

It's all yours Bub...help yourself.

26 posted on 03/29/2006 4:42:45 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: Dark Skies
Oh my goodness...wouldn't want to die for the Truth would we.

We also wouldn't want to be drama queens..

At least, I wouldn't.

27 posted on 03/29/2006 4:45:15 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
We also wouldn't want to be drama queens...

Bugger off dude, until you have something to add of value...something that might have a positive influence on the debate. You don't make an argument...you are satisfied with tarring those who debate. So far, you seem to be interested in hearing yourself talk (solipsism is passe).

There is only one worse than you and he runs around accusing all who disagree of being MORONS.

You and he bring much dignity to FR....NOT.

28 posted on 03/29/2006 4:54:43 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: Dark Skies
something that might have a positive influence on the debate. You don't make an argument...

I made an argument above, and you didn't like it, so you accuse me of not making an argument.

You are free to ignore my posts, but most of us found out we couldn't give orders to other posters on our first day here.

29 posted on 03/29/2006 4:59:53 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
Suicide bombers will come to our shopping malls eventually anyway. Even the "esteemed" group, the 9-11 commission said its only a matter of time. We all hope, of course that it doesn't happen while we are shopping, or having dinner at North Park.

We would hope also, that there is an unknown group within our government that is quietly taking care of terrorists within our country.

30 posted on 03/29/2006 5:01:12 PM PST by B.O. Plenty (Islam, liberalism and abortions are terminal..)
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To: sinkspur
Your argument is that you don't want to be a drama queen. Okey dokey.

Got it...now bugger off before I call the exterminator. You are not welcome here...ping someone else...


31 posted on 03/29/2006 5:06:38 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: Dark Skies
Got it...now bugger off before I call the exterminator. You are not welcome here.

If you post here, I am free to respond.

Go back up and read my previous post about posters giving orders to other posters.

32 posted on 03/29/2006 5:10:16 PM PST by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur
You are correct in that you have a right to be a pest. Why not aim higher than that? Why not connect with others and enter into a dignified dialogue?

Legitimate debate sublimates self to argument. As far as I can tell, you don't make an argument...you just take cheap shots at others who DO make argument.

That isn't debate. Is that enough for you?

You may ping me all you wish. I had hoped there might be a human being on the other end. If there is...I would be proud to respond. Otherwise, I will do what any sensible person would do when accosted by the town idiot...I will ignore you.

33 posted on 03/29/2006 5:21:23 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: sinkspur
BTW...you would have a long way to go to be a bigger village idiot than I have been in my life.
34 posted on 03/29/2006 5:50:45 PM PST by Dark Skies (" For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. " Matthew 6:21)
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To: sinkspur

35 posted on 03/29/2006 7:34:46 PM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: Dark Skies
"This phenomenon of conversions from Christianity to Islam..."

The author's points are well made. However, I hope he/she understands, accurately speaking, it is not possible for a Christian to "convert" to Islam. It could be nominally so, but not in actual fact.

jw

36 posted on 03/29/2006 7:42:37 PM PST by JWinNC (www.anailinhisplace.net)
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To: sinkspur; Dark Skies
>"The day that a president (any president) says that Islam promotes violence is the first day of suicide bombers in our shopping malls."<

Your own statement acknowledges the violence of this religious cult. By your own estimation: The mere insinuation that Islam promotes violence (which it in fact does) is enough to incite Muslims to become suicide bombers in our country. Very interesting thought process you have, Sinkspur.

So, lets review what one of the greatest statesmen of all time had to say about Islam, shall we?


Winston Churchill on Islam:

"How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property -- either as a child, a wife, or a concubine -- must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.

Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science -- the science against which it had vainly struggled -- the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome." -Winston Churchill
37 posted on 03/29/2006 7:57:03 PM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: Dark Skies; TomasUSMC; Bob J; Albion Wilde; kromike; B.O. Plenty; All
>"bending the truth for PC helps no one! It placates the enemy and abandons those trying to reform or escape islam."<

Ibn Warraq, author of "Leaving Islam" would agree with that assessment. He maintains that:

"Muslims do not need patronizing liberals to meet them halfway; Muslims need to write an honest biography of the prophet that does not shun the truth, least of all cover it up with the dishonest subterfuge of condescending western scholars"

-Ibn Warraq is the author of; "Why I Am Not A Muslim", "Studies on Muhammad", "Rise of Islam", and "Leaving Islam"
( Warraq is an Arab.)

Craig Winn, author of "Prophet Of Doom" has some very interesting comments on the Tamar Yonah talk show, you can listen to his interview here, in the archives:
http://www.israelnationalradio.com/

.

38 posted on 03/29/2006 8:59:53 PM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: Always Right

39 posted on 03/29/2006 9:09:28 PM PST by Emmet Fitzhume ("It is better to be alone than in bad company.")
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: Dark Skies

Put a complete crackdown on Afghanistan -- let whoever wants to convert, CONVERT and give them guns.


41 posted on 03/30/2006 1:03:26 AM PST by Cronos (Remember 9/11. Restore Hagia Sophia! Ultra-Catholic: Sola Scriptura leads to solo scriptura.)
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To: All
Image

42 posted on 03/30/2006 5:56:12 AM PST by zook
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To: NYer
Could it have been that if Abdul Rahman had stood a well publicized trial, he would have exposed the errors of his past religion only too well?

Seems that the secular (analytical) side of Afghani leadership has chosen dialog rather than zealous efficiency. Hooray for our Pope that helped make this so!

I don't underestimate Muslim's ability to reason. I worked with plenty of them and they're aren't the thoughtless wild fanatics that some (non-Muslim and Muslims) make them out to be. The wondrous beauty of this present day is that many have the opportunity to stop and think for a bit.
43 posted on 03/30/2006 6:01:23 AM PST by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: SaltyJoe

>"I don't underestimate Muslim's ability to reason. I worked with plenty of them and they're aren't the thoughtless wild fanatics that some (non-Muslim and Muslims) make them out to be."<




"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities...but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world." -Sir Winston Churchill



In other words- those Muslims you and Churchill reference have the ability to reason: *in spite of* being muslim, not *because of*...

regards


44 posted on 03/30/2006 7:31:54 AM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: FBD

I have a great Hope for the Human Heart. The touch of God has our souls yearning for Him constantly. A little taste of Grace, and the human heart wants more. To hear His voice a little, and an open heart yearns to listen and follow.

People need safety and opportunity to know Christ. That's why Jesus gives us "Purgatory". It's because an ALL Just God would never condemn a soul that has been oppressed and forced to resist Jesus' Love. "Purgatory" must be a spiritual safe haven of sorts for such people who've been stunted spiritually.


45 posted on 03/30/2006 8:57:03 AM PST by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: SaltyJoe
I would agree with you, that we have a loving and kind God, who seeks us all out, and that Jesus is the true example and our Saviour.
I do believe however, that the 'slamic "religion" is a satanic devise to delude and destroy people, and their salvation.

Regards
46 posted on 03/30/2006 9:42:05 AM PST by FBD (surf's up!)
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To: B.O. Plenty
A 10th crusade would not be necessary. Removing the lunatic imams and mullas would do the trick IMO.

The one thing that keeps the lunatic imams and mullahs in place is oil revenue. You think their congregation pays their salaries and upkeep on the mosque?

Nuclear power NOW!

47 posted on 03/30/2006 3:28:58 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the hubris to think they will be the planners)
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To: sinkspur
The day that a president (any president) says that Islam promotes violence is the first day of suicide bombers in our shopping malls.

The first day of suicide bombers in our shopping malls is when we start seeing Muslims on lamp poles and burning mosques

48 posted on 03/30/2006 3:30:35 PM PST by SauronOfMordor (A planned society is most appealing to those with the hubris to think they will be the planners)
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To: SauronOfMordor
I agree about nuclear power...and hydrogen power...and coal power....and wind power...and sun power...and water power...and corn power...heck...even burning cockle burrs if we can get enough of them.

If the crazy mullas were removed properly...finally and often...it wouldn't matter who paid their salaries...there wouldn't be any of them that were willing to take the job.

49 posted on 03/30/2006 4:36:40 PM PST by B.O. Plenty (Islam, liberalism and abortions are terminal..)
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To: FBD

If a devil is among the details, than we'd be wise to be humble and as for the Arch Angels and Jesus to intercede. Killing the satanic is beyond our power.


50 posted on 03/30/2006 4:37:40 PM PST by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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