Posted on 03/29/2006 8:02:53 PM PST by MaineVoter2002
How The GOP Can Survive The Immigration Debate
Dick Morris Wednesday, March 29, 2006
The immigration bill pending in Congress poses as crucial a test for GOP efforts to reach out to Hispanic voters as the 1964 Civil Rights Act did in determining the future partisan preferences of America's African-Americans...
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/3/29/143533.shtml
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
Dick Morris has rarely been correct on any issue...having said that, perhaps I will give him a pass this time.
I am so agitated I could "self explode"!!
[. . .]
With a 4.7 percent unemployment rate, we will be slitting our own throats by denying our economy access to Mexican workers.
There you have it.
Democrats want a cause that'll bring in voters disposed to cast ballots their way.
Fat cat Republicans want cheap labor and don't care how badly they insult the "jobs Americans won't do" base.
Republicans will survive only because there is not a viable alternative.
Are you anti-illegal immigrant? Or anti-immigrant? I dont understand where you see the problem in this article.
"And it is also important for the Republicans to avoid symbolic acts like making it a felony to be here illegally or to employ someone who is. The same practical deterrence is quite possible through the fence, and merely upgrading the jail time from a misdemeanor to a felony won't make much practical difference."
This I agree with. We need to seal up the borders and mean serious business on that, but felonies for illegal immigrants is going overboard in my opinion. There should be very stiff fines/penalties for businesses that are actually enforced. People caught working illegally should be sent back post haste (no need to waste our money on keeping them in our prisons) and their employers should be given a heavy fines.
If your rant is against illegals, then I'm on your side. But I dont see in this article where illegals should be allowed to continue to fill ou nation
I heard that in the long long ago, in the way way past, that there were elected representatives in Washington who actually did things because they were the right thing to for the people they represented. I wonder, could such stories of fantasy could actually be true. Nah....
I agree with Dick Morris on this. He notes that the Latino vote went to Gore by 65 - 35 in 2000, but only went to Kerry 54 - 46. That is a huge "swing" and the Republicans would be ill-advised to ignore it. Jump up and down and holler about illegal aliens all you want, but electoral politics is the bottom line.
Morris has some good ideas here - - control the border (with a BIG fence), ID all workers who come in from Mexico, and deport those who refuse to comply. Sounds okay to me.
Yes to the fence - It should be the first priority
Yes to guest workers - We need to make illegal immigration more difficult and legal immigration easier.
Yes to greater criminalization for future illegals - They are lawbreakers!
A pro-american, hard-working, capitalist-loving vietnamese who applies for a visa to come to the USA is told up front that he has less than a 5% chance of being accepted because the US is trying to absorb the millions of illegal mexicans. It needs to be easier than this in order to be able to have more control. Right now, it's almost impossible to enter the US legally. This only encourages lawbreakers (though I don't justify it). And yes, we need to be tough on illegals here already. They are lawbreakers.
I wonder if we really should punish businesses for hiring illegals. In one way I say yes but in another...is'nt it OUR GOVERNMENT who is responsible for keeping out illegals? Why punnish businesses in the USA for our government's failures?
Face it! We have enough legal trouble trying to jail terrorists. You really think we will deport 12 million illegals?
LET'S BUILD A WALL NOW!
We have plenty of time to talk about what to do with those already here. Let's build the wall before we have 30 million illegals. This 20 year cycle must stop now. WE HAVE DONE THIS ALREADY IN 1986
http://jednet207.tripod.com/PoliticalLinks.html
...why isn't anyone asking Vicente Fox why Mexicans are fleeing that nation??????????
There is a viable alternative. The question is will this be the election cycle in which conservatives have finally had enough and find the courage to vote for it.
Against illegal aliens. A fairly hefty chunk of my family are legal immigrants. They're all naturalized citizens.
I dont understand where you see the problem in this article.
Morris is a strategist looking for a political compromise which will keep the anti-illegal immigrant crowd in line without alienating the amnesty/open border crowd.
Who cares about Fox. His only economic policy is "Go elswhere for a job". Once we build the wall and diversify our immigration through visas and not border crossings, he will then have hell to pay with his people. As for us, let's focus on our country. Let the mexicans deal with theirs.
Actually, it only consisted of three semi-declarative statements of fact. Not much of a rant. :-)
The vast majority of "guest workers" will never, ever go home. Why does anyone pretend differently? We are supposed to sign on to utter, pernicious nonsense by pretending to believe this. It's crazy.
"I wonder if we really should punish businesses for hiring illegals. In one way I say yes but in another...is'nt it OUR GOVERNMENT who is responsible for keeping out illegals? Why punnish businesses in the USA for our government's failures?"
If you hit the bottom line of businesses then they will think twice or three times about hiring illegal immigrants. The failure of the government in part is that it is not enforcing the laws already on the books. We can't afford to jail all these people and we need to focus the resources of our prison systems for getting genuinely dangerous criminals out of the way. Hit the businesses hard with heavy fines and rigorous enforcement - that is the only way. Beefing up border security is fine, walls are fine, but people will always find a way around. We need to remove the incentive for businesses to hire these illegal workers. This will be achieved by a combination of heavy penalties and some sort of guest worker program.
Once they have real social security numbers and it is a controled process, the government will be able to find them after they overstayed their visa as easily as they can find you when you decide not to pay your taxes.
Is this clown serious?
we will be slitting our own throats by denying our economy access to Mexican workers. We just need to make them legal, not illegal.
This reads like PR. Let me guess. He's working for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce -- or he's working with an old Clinton White House buddy?
In 2003 Thomas "Mack" McLarty became a Senior Advisor to Carlyle and Advisor on Mexico Investment Activities.
(Before that I believe he did PR for Mexico through his connections with Kissinger's company.)
Or maybe a Morris Republican buddy? Mr Rudy Giuliani's security consulting company was hired by Mexican business leaders to come up with a plan to clean up Mexico City, which has the second-highest crime rate in Latin America. . . .
Or is just the old globalists chant, "cheap labor trumps sovereignty any day of the week!"
Regardless..
Is Morris another one of those who believes that Americans of Hispanic origin are addicted to law breaking? You cannot get their vote if you don't support breaking laws?
Why did about 30 percent of Americans of Hispanic origin vote for California's Prop 187 and almost 50 percent of Americans of Hispanic origin vote for Arizona's Prop 200?
I think they should start by bringing in a "guest worker" to write Dick Morris' column. It would be a lot cheaper, and probably equally inane.
Amnesty in 2006 = Hillary as President in 2008
Dick Morris may know that better than most. Who knows.. he just might be working for the Clintons again.
Then again; if you deport them when they apply for those real SS#s, you would not have to bother finding them later on. Illegal aliens should not be rewarded.
Any guest worker program that in any way rewards those already here with the privilege of staying and/or eventually getting to stay legally is a slap in the face to the millions from OTHER COUNTRIES that also want to come here and work and are trying to do it legally. Why are all our immigration talks centered about Mexicans? There's a whole world of workers out there. Shouldn't they have a shot too?
Yeah, you probably still believe in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. I know your type. Dream on!
The amnesty issue solely deals with those here already. I am not a big supporter of it. We did it already. I'm as much against another amnesty as you are. But I'm also a realist. Look at our war on terror... we are fighting those from within just to avoid giving detainees of war a lawyer and a day in court. Do you really think we will deport 12 million people? I wish we could, but I know it wont happen. I doubt we could succeed at deporting a terrorist after he did his time in our prison. Im against amnesty...so what do we do, keep them coming and keep their status as it is now?
I agree. Most latinos (along with other groups) are against illegal immigration.
We are republicans and we are here to help. We are going to bring in a fresh set of millions of immigrants from mexico every 5 years to replace you the assimilated hispanic americans just when you get settleded here, is that enough to buy your vote amigo?
I agree 100%. In fact, I would be against present illegals being able to sign up for the guestworker program from here in the USA. THEY (illegals already here) should already be working OR they should be deported at once!
The volume seems to have increased quite a bit recently.
Just FYI --- I'm fixing to read this now.
No his only economic policy is "Go elswhere for a job and please send money back".
I wonder what the result is if Mexico elects a Socialist?
Well if you're looking at this issue from the politcal aspect, you may want to think twice. You are aborting future pro-life voters who are dead against the killing of unborn babies.
Me, Im pro-life as well, but Im looking at the Border / Illegal Alien issue more from the national security aspect.
Because the businesses are knowing violating Federal Regulations, however some fast check for employers should be created.
The Repubs are making it damned near impossible to support them.
The height of hubris is believing that new immigrants will vote GOP. If the president thinks he can buy future votes for the GOP, he's sadly mistaken. One only needs to look at those counties bordering Mexico in the last election- solid blue. If he is successful with his quasi-amnesty (guest worker) program the GOP will stay in control, but this country won't be worth living in. If he's not successful and reason wins the day, the libs will probably come to power due to all of the votes they've already bought and this country won't be worth living in 20 years earlier. Bottom line- Time to get out of Dodge.
WHAT!?? They are not real???? WAAAAAAA!!!!!
Mark Belling said something rather profound when he subbed for Rush today:
Make it easier to immigrate legally.
Make it harder to immigrate illegally.
Jump up and down and holler about illegal aliens all you want, but electoral politics is the bottom line.
Im looking at the Border / Illegal Alien issue more from the national security aspect.
unless the GOP secures our border and ends the invasion, the GOP does not *deserve* to survive
Agreed 100%
There is a viable alternative. The question is will this be the election cycle in which conservatives have finally had enough and find the courage to vote for it.
I'm looking at it from a "survival of the republic" aspect and it doesn't look good. This is exactly why history has shown that democracies fail. The poor vote to take wealth away from the rich, the rich move elsewhere, the country falls into ruin because there's no one left to pay the bills, end of story.
Bad logic.
It's like asking, "Why do we punish bank robbers, when we should be punishing the banks for being 'robbable'!"
If a factory decides to hire illegals, instead of paying Americans, because the illegals will work for a fraction of the wage an American would cost, then you'd give the factory owner a pass?
And please, none of that stuff about how "greedy American workers" refuse to "compete" with the "hard-working" illegals.
When you have 30 or 40 illegals living in ONE house, well, sure, if Americans were willing to "live" like that, then we could "compete" with the illegals.
Lincoln must be spinning in his grave. All that work, all that misery, all those Americans killed in the Civil War, and here we are, right back at the "Plantation Economy" -- only this time, it's not "just" The South that's got those very "low-cost workers."
A few months ago, the local Chinese restaurant closed down with no warning.
Turned out that the feds came in and busted 'em. The owner had imported his own little "mini-plantation", and billeted his "slaves" in a house -- all 40 of 'em.
Of course, this was a unique case -- they were Chinese illegals. NONE of the several MEXICAN establishments are ever given the ol' Hairy Eyeball treatment. The word seems to have gone out that Mexican illegals are NOT to be bothered.
Meanwhile, the local rag's Police Blotter section is regularly filled with incident reports filled with "hispanic-sounding" names.
This is an agricultural area. Some of the farmers live a fairly low-profile, unassuming lifestyle (at casual glance), but are quite wealthy, and very influential.
I'm talking about operations involving many millions of dollars worth of business. And no politician who does NOT go to bat for his "influential" constituents will find himself a politician for long.
Check this out: U.S. Ends Undocumented Immigrant Stings
So yeah, the government is to blame -- but so are the "interests" who pay the lobbyists and own the politicians who call the shots.
The only ones who don't have a voice in the situation are us couple hundred million Americans trapped "in the middle", between illegals who come here, the employers who "run the plantations", and the government that fills both back pockets from the proceeds.
Both back pockts? Yup. On the one hand, they are on life-support via the money from the employers; on the other hand, golly gee, them thar illegals, guess what? They sign up to vote! Thank "motor-voter" for that abomination.
The key? It's the illegals. They empower the crooked employers, who put Americans out of work, and, pay off the crooked politicians; and, they empower the crooked government directly, by casting their illegal votes, thus becoming a "constituency", for whom the crooked politicians go a-whoring after.
So, you can reform the crooked employers (gee, ain't it something, how, once you lower the wages to something that can only be afforded by living 30 or 40 to a house (itself illegal), there are suddenly all sorts of "jobs Americans won't do"?)
Or, you can, as you suggest, "punish the government."
Or, you can stop the invasion of illegal aliens, who empower the entire corrupt system from top to bottom.
The only problem is, so long as there's a supply of illegal workers, and a corrupt government to protect them, you have NO way of "reforming the employers."
And, as long as you have a supply of corrupt employers, paying off the corrupt politicians -- and a ready supply of illegal alien "constituents" voting for the corrupt politicans, you have NO way of "punishing the government."
And, as long as you have corrupt policians protecting the scam, and crooked employers driving the engine, you have NO way of stopping the invasion of illegal aliens.
How's that verse from Proverbs go? Something about "a threefold cord is not easily broken"? Well, here's your Sunday School lesson, real life, a classic object lesson in the reality of that observaton.
We're screwed. Get used to it. Welcome to the Third World.
Oh, ok. I read your post and took it as the survival of the GOP. Well, we know the GOP already controls all 3 branches of government. We know illegals are pouring into this country. So what should we do? Focus now on those here already? OR Build a wall and stop more from coming. Well, if the GOP is in a sinking ship and they focus on spooning out the water before plugging the hole....then they should lose in 2006, 2008 and until they decide that national security is more important than the illegal vote that shouldn't be voting in the first place.
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