Posted on 03/30/2006 7:44:42 AM PST by ChessMan
School's 'Holocaust' Experiment Upsets Parents
Dad: Son Cried Over Becoming Jew For Day
POSTED: 5:53 pm EST March 29, 2006 UPDATED: 9:02 am EST March 30, 2006
Several parents in Apopka, Fla., are upset over a surprise school "Holocaust" project that some say tormented children, according to a Local 6 News report.
Local 6 News reported that eighth-graders with last names beginning with L through Z at Apopka Memorial Middle School were given yellow five-pointed stars for Holocaust Remembrance Day. Other students were privileged, the report said.
Father John Tinnelly said his son was forced to stand in the back of the classroom and not allowed to sit because he was wearing the yellow star.
"He was forced to go to the back of the lunch line four times by an administrator," Tinnelly said.
Tinnelly said the experiment upset his child.
"He was crying," Tinnelly said. "I said, 'What are you crying about?' He said, 'Daddy, I was a Jew today.'"
Other parents and children shared similar stories, Tinnelly said.
"They were told that they could not use the water fountains," Tinnely said. "There was even a sign supposedly at one water fountain (saying) if you're wearing a yellow star , you can't use this water fountain."
Tinnelly said he believes it is important to teach the Holocaust, but apparently little was learned during the experiment.
"I tried to talk to my son and I asked all of these questions and the only thing he said is, 'Daddy, the only thing I found out today is I don't want to be Jewish,'" Tinnelly said.
"Children were selected to be persecuted or privileged, some not told the rule," Reznick said. "Parents tell Local 6 they were not told prior to the school-wide experiment."
"Teachers felt that it would have defeated the purpose to tell the students ahead of time because that would have prepared them," Principal Douglas Guthrie said. "Students came in and all they got was a star."
"This was supposed to be a creative way to teach the horrors of the Holocaust but unfortunately, it has sparked controversy and more importantly, it has sparked conversation," Reznick said. "We have now heard from nearly a dozen parents (who are) very upset."
Local 6 News aired a statement from The Holocaust Memorial Resource and Education Center of Florida; "Of course, we applaud Apopka (Memorial) Middle School's effort to engage in Holocaust education with the hope of a tolerance education component in the classroom. That is the mission of The Center to teach tolerance through Holocaust remembrance and education. However, we do not encourage nor train teachers to engage in simulation exercises."
Guthrie admitted that he would do some things differently in the exercise because of complaints but said some kids got the message, Reznick said.
"They need to know, we don't want history to repeat itself," Guthrie said.
Notice how these experiments are never for things like what it'd be like to be an Orthodox Christian in Ukraine circa 1569, or a Jew or Christian in Iran, or a Christian in Kosovo.
Or a Republican in Ithaca.
LMAO
ROFL. The city of EVIL.
Best line of the day!!
Or a white student in a majority black school.
This is child abuse. These kids are going to disrespect whoever they identify with this abuse.
Sounds like a game show. Do you want to be JEW for a day!!!
Daddy, the only thing I found out today is I don't want to be Jewish,
Come on, Daddy, a teaching moment...
Reminiscent of the famous exercise conducted in the 60s by an elementary school teacher to teach children about racism, using eye-color as the differentiating feature. Except in that case, it was teaching about bigotry, which always exists in some manner, and at the time was still blatantly exercised in some areas of the country. This, on the other hand, is teaching about a specific historical event, so I would question the appropriateness of the approach.
All that aside, does anybody besides me think that 8th graders ought to be a little beyond the crybaby stage and able to at least grasp the concept of what was being demonstrated? Or are kids that age less intelligent and/or stable now than they were when I was in Junior High?
Only L to Z were Jews? That could cause confusion
Eric Cartman: Kyle, all those times I said you were a dumb, stupid Jew, well, I was wrong, you're not a Jew.
Kyle Broflovski: What? Yes, I am a Jew! Cartman
Cartman: There, there, don't be hard on yourself, Kyle.
First of all, who is the "Reznick" person? Is this the journalist? Am I missing something? I see no reference or explanation but maybe I missed it.
"Teachers felt that it would have defeated the purpose to tell the students ahead of time because that would have prepared them," Principal Douglas Guthrie said. "Students came in and all they got was a star."
"Teachers felt" huh? "All they got was a star"? Boy, ol Dougie is really on top of things here.
"This was supposed to be a creative way to teach the horrors of the Holocaust but unfortunately, it has sparked controversy and more importantly, it has sparked conversation," Reznick said. "We have now heard from nearly a dozen parents (who are) very upset."
The whole public school system is run by women, dolts and touchy-feely girly-men. Unbelievable someone didn't have sense enough to see the uproar this would cause. Imagine the outcry if the gold star meant you were a slave?
Nominated for the Free Republic Hall of Fame...
That oughta go right up there along with the Viking Kitties, and the stuned beeber...
I wonder what "hands on activity" they have planned for remembering slavery?
Students A through K will be wipped and their names will be changed.
Why so much time and effort to teach about European things, isn't there anything related to America that could receive that kind of effort? As Americans we were neither German nor Jew, if they insist on promoting this , why not put the Jews and Germans together, and show the class of American students as American soldiers intervening and solving their problems for them?
Everything is child abuse these days. You render the term "child abuse" meaningless when you use it to describe what was simply a lesson in reality. What a sissified society we have become. I'm amazed we can field an Army in this society today.
A lesson in reality in the US? It is child abuse to manipulate the emotions of other people's kids in this way.
We need to teaach children not to participate in activities such as these.
What ever happened to just say no and all the other selfactualizing education.
We did this in my school. From then on I brought a gun to school everyday. Problem solved.
Interesting, but isn't it a pity that parents of eighth graders are still protecting their children from having their feelings hurt? It would be different if one child was chosen, but half the class were given stars. Surely they knew something was up for one day. It's not like this happened all year long.
Well after having seen a few "over-protective" friends and neighbors raise their children like this, these same kids can't function as mature adults now. They were rescued from every uncomfortable situation as children. Little do parents like this know they're not doing their kids a favor.
I agree with Izzy:
"Come on, Daddy, a teaching moment.."
Sorry, but since this was sprung on these kids without preparing them and obtaining consent, it was emotional abuse. (A good lawyer could probably make a civil rights case out of it as well.) Sure, many kids of this age, probably most, could handle this fine. But middle school is the age of bullying, and some kids are already extremely unhappy at school anyway. They have to be brave troupers everyday when dealing with their peers. To suddenly have all adult support disappear and not be told why, to be denied water, and sent to the back of the lunch line not just once but often could have been devastating. There should have been an opt out area for kids who needed a break or who did not wish to be involved.
My feelings would be very different if the kids had been prepared to partake in this experiment.
Agreed.
When I was about that age, the school showed us a movie where a Latino kids was getting picked on by EvilWhite© students. I guess that we were supposed to feel compassion for poor, little José. All we learned were new racial slurs for Mexicans we hadn't heard before. (Since all of us had decent parents, we never heard all of the really good racial slurs that the language has to offer.)
This is a variation, of a very famous social psychology experiment that had been repeated worldwide thousands of times.
http://www.love-shy.com/Gilmartin/Chapter03/elliot.html
The difference is that using Jews and the Holocaust does more harm then good.
These kids won't go away from the experiment learning tolerance, they will walk away with the idea that they don't what to be in the "Jewish" group (whatever Jewish is).
I agee with you. Having raised kids in Marxist land, these kind of "lessons" don't always have the moral or lesson of the story you would expect in the end. They don't have time to be manipulating kids like this and they are too morally impared to be trusted with this stuff. They did not inform parents for a reason...They knew they were being manipulative and abusive.
The other issue as well is that liberals keep emotionalizing all their topics for kids and it has the effect, year after year of numbing them to the horrors. Parents and ministers can deal with their kids on this level - not government workers with a clear political agenda.
Thanks! I have a feeling, because of your father's career, you weren't "babied," in eighth grade; loved, yes. If you were participating in this experiment, he would have asked you what you learned.
May he rest in peace at beautiful Arlington National Cemetery! I hope he knows we appreciated his service.
Or a conservative in the People's Republic of Maryland?
Instead of pity-pooing because the boy had his feelings hurt, maybe the parent should have explained, "This is how it was for the Jews." and explain what happened then and even what has been happening now.
Good idea - "Reality learning"
Thanks! I was most certainly not babied, but I was taught right from wrong, and there was no flavor of moral relativism in those lessons. My Dad (and Mom) both believed in good and evil, human frailty, forgiveness and personal responsibility.
My feeling is, I don't have a problem with a teacher using a tool like that to get a point across. Perhaps some people feel that it is the Jews/Nazis thing, then it is overdone and needs no further discussion.
I would disagree, and I do believe this is an appropriate subject for discussion in a class of eighth graders.
Of course, we all the know the Nazis were pikers (with respect, at least, to sheer numbers, but perhaps not efficiency) when it came to murdering people in cold blood, when compared to the communists...are they going to get this point across to kids as well?
Anyway, I don't really have an issue with a teacher doing an exercise like this, but I do agree, in the wrong hands and done the wrong way by the wrong person with the wrong intent, this COULD be a bad thing for kids.
As another poster inferred, are slaves next week? Then Indians? Then Mexicans? Then Muslims? (but, of course, never Christians...:)
What is this fixation on the Holocaust? I am IRISH and I don't want to go to Idaho and teach them about the potato famine.
Well said!
You cheapen the term "child abuse" to call this lesson "child abuse".
Frankly, if these kids were upset by the experience, then they probably learned a valuable lesson. Life is full of little traumas and we grow stronger because of our exposure to them. I suspect these kids were much more traumatized by their math homework than by this little game. But that's not going to stop the parents from filing lawsuits, is it? And if I was their attorney (which I would refuse to do) then I would look for bleeding hearts like yours to fill up the jury chairs.
If you really think this is "child abuse" then the teacher really should be fired and jailed. Do you think the teacher should be in prison for this crime?
And if one of these whiny kids claimed emotional trauma because of this experience, how much tax money would you, as a juror, be willing to give him or her?
Is anybody studying Calculus?
I really don't mean to change the subject, but here's the type of parent mentioned in this thread, but a rare judge indeed!
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1606220/posts
Those "whiny kids" are not yours to emotionally manipulate and if you (public school officials) ever want to mess with my kids emotionally, I want to know exactly what you are planning to do to see if it makes any sense for a positive outcome. You (a teacher) are a total stranger to me, buddy.
If I send my kids to a public school, I agree to let teachers teach my kids academic subjects and German history is a part of that, too. They are not some wacko clay to emotionally mold and manipulate. I don't permit strangers to psychologically manipulate and experiment on my kids. That is not the public school's place and it is an abuse of power and an abuse of kids.
That is what the public education system is.
Why don't you answer my questions?:
Should the teacher be jailed?
And how much would you be willing to give the kid if he sued claiming emotional damage?
No, I don't think the teachers should be in jail. It is certainly not in the same category as intentional abuse. It was merely thoughtless. That does not mean it wasn't emotionally abusive to SOME children. The teachers DO deserve the grief they are getting from parents. They should have prepared the kids for this, notified parents, etc.
I have been the victim of bullying in school, and it was not a "little trauma". I suppose anything that doesn't kill you makes you stronger, but that doesn't mean the experience didn't leave deep scars. One thing I clung to was that I was smart and well-liked by my teachers. If I had ever lost that support I would have been in despair. I can't help but think what such an experiment might have done to me.
I was certainly not whiny. I was incredibly brave. I was bullied because I refused to do what the bullies wanted. I contiued to refuse even after all but one other had buckled under. I have had classmates come to me, apologise, and express wishes that they had been so brave. All this time, my parents never knew what I was going through. I told them about some incidents, cried over some incidents, but they didn't know the big picture. No adult EVER knew.
When I was a classroom teacher, one thing I really worked on was helping students deal with conflict and bullying. After three years at my school, I noticed that the usual fistfights and thing didn't occur between my students and that a spastic child that the other classes disliked actually become quite popular with my group. Role-playing can be useful in accomplishing that, but only when the kids are "into" it, not when it is thrust onto them.
Interestingly, I am homeschooling my own.
I don't see how an American governmental body doing this is any better than the German government doing it.
The yellow star was just one of many badges used in the camps. The school should've handed out pink triangles for homosexuals, black and gold stars for race defilers, etc. For realism. And the "privileged" cohort should've been wearing swastika armbands. It sounds like they didn't put any thought or effort into this "experiment" at all.
I have seen a couple of films about the lady who did the "blue eyes, brown eyes" experiment. She started it in her elementary school room, I think right after Martin Luther King was killed, and she went on to do it at prison systems and other places where various types of people interact with each other.
Regardless of what you think about the benefits of the experiment, her method was much more effective. She segregated people by the color of their eyes--a trait that everyone is inarguably born with (unlike something like homosexuality, which is a trait there is argument about--thus diluting the effectiveness of the experiment, or religion, which is a trait you are born into but not born with). The kid quoted in the article knew he wasn't Jewish and knew he wasn't going to ever be Jewish, but the kids in the blue eyes/brown eyes experiment knew they were born with a certain color of eye.
The eye experiment was very well organized and when she started doing it with adults it was more layered.
Not jailed, but fired. In a civil suit, I would award the kids as much as possible for this flagrant abuse of power. Let's take this a step further.
Suppose we divide the kids into Palis and Jews and run a similar emotionally manipulative exercise. How about homos and Christians? How about peasants and land owners? Or let's do Christians and Jews and see if we can get the kids riled up about the crucification... I blocked a teacher who wanted to target bad boys in the class by having a group exercise where the kids would pick out the person they despise (led by her, ofcouse) and stomp their feet in front of the chosen child. She called it teaching kids positive peer pressure, the nutcase.
You have to think beyond your nose when weighing the wisdom of permitting the schools (liberals) the power to run open and direct psychologically manipulative operations on other people's children. Did you ever study about Mao and his encounter sessions? I don't think you did because this is right out of his book of tricks for re-education.
That might well be the lesson of the day - they did what they were told to do instead of telling those running things to take a hike.
LOL! Perhaps they can reinact a War Crimes Tribunal and the teachers can try to escape to Venezuela.
Perhaps they should as well taught the kids how this ended - by people who knew how to use guns and bombs.
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