Posted on 03/30/2006 3:46:27 PM PST by rhema
"He created our free will, which some of us use to choose Hell."
Which he designed for the very purpose of containing those that did not use their "free will" correctly, knowing before he started exactly how many and who were going to wind up there.
All part of the master building plan.
"Did you see anything that said not to defend innocent life?"
Nope, see # 161 - All part of the original plan
I do remember something about "...no greater friend than he who would lay down his life for another." But not babies in your interpretation?
Good to see someone who knows everything about His plan.
There's no way to give man free will without making him free to choose to separate himself from God ... and it's not at all clear that without free will man could be fit for Heaven.
RS: Which he designed for the very purpose of containing those that did not use their "free will" correctly, knowing before he started exactly how many and who were going to wind up there. All part of the master building plan.
If so then it's either stupid or arrogant to condemn those who 'mistakenly' save the lives of the unborn. If it's all part of the plan then your complaining about that is no different than their mistake. It would logically be the same arrogance.
LOL-
Somehow I don't think that the ones who wind up in Hell because they were snatched from the Jaws of Heaven are going to think of their "benefactor" as a good buddy ....
There are no such ones ... every resident of Hell is there because of his freely-chosen acts.
They'll undoubtedly have fond memories of those who made excuses for killing them.
"There's no way to give man free will without making him free to choose to separate himself from God ... "
True -
But are you thinking that he didn't KNOW when he drew the blueprints how many would choose which way ?
That he could not have tilted the playing field in any other direction he chose ?
"and it's not at all clear that without free will man could be fit for Heaven."
Uh ... he's God, you think he's constrained by some sort of cosmic rulebook ?
"There are no such ones ... every resident of Hell is there because of his freely-chosen acts."
Acts defined by, in a universe setup by, constrained by circumstances and emotions created by, an all powerfull, all knowing God who knew the "freely-chosen acts" before all of this was the first spec of light.
Do you seriously think that God is surprised that most of his created wind up in hell ?
True - But are you thinking that he didn't KNOW when he drew the blueprints how many would choose which way ?
He knew. What of it?
That he could not have tilted the playing field in any other direction he chose ?
Not without making free will less than free.
"and it's not at all clear that without free will man could be fit for Heaven."
Uh ... he's God, you think he's constrained by some sort of cosmic rulebook ?
God is "constrained" by the laws of logic ... although it's more accurate to say as C. S. Lewis did, "Nonsense does not become sense because you talk it about God."
There are no such ones ... every resident of Hell is there because of his freely-chosen acts.... Yet you agree with that which states the cause is one's own.
But are you thinking that he didn't KNOW when he drew the blueprints how many would choose which way ?... And here you say God knew before hand who chooses hell and who doesn't. Which logically means that no choice was actually made as God designed it all and it was all predestined. Which means that God is the cause not any man.
You have held that all three of those positions is true yet they each are antithetical to the other two. If any of those is true the other two are false. Which one is it?
If true then free will is an illusion and you think so or you wouldn't have put it in quotes.
"Not without making free will less than free."
So lets see ... Did inhabitants of the Americas have "free will" before 1492 ?
"God is "constrained" by the laws of logic ..."
Wow Cool .... Freepers are less constrained then God ...
But from an engineering point of view, designing a product with a function known as "free will" ( that you also designed ) which causes most of them to be defective to the point you have to toss them in the furnace, is not extreamly logical.
You can't rule that as illogical unless you know what the ultimate goal or purpose of the product is. So, you either are privy to that ultimate goal or you're being illogical.
Actually, the first is a wrong conclusion on your part- going to hell is only the root cause IF they wind up there.
your second one was KYR
and in the third one
"And here you say God knew before hand who chooses hell and who doesn't. "
Are you presuming that HE dosen't ? That we could surprise HIM ?
.... Hhmmm, an interesting concept though - What if God DOSEN'T know what's going to happen ? Kind of a George Burnsy type of God ...
"So, you either are privy to that ultimate goal ...."
Shhhh - everyone will want to know, and that's not part of the plan ...
Of course.
"God is "constrained" by the laws of logic ..."
Wow Cool .... Freepers are less constrained then God ...
LOL!
But from an engineering point of view, designing a product with a function known as "free will" ( that you also designed ) which causes most of them to be defective
Defective only if it was possible to create beings that would never choose Hell yet be fit for Heaven.
"Did inhabitants of the Americas have "free will" before 1492 ?
Of course."
Since they were never in a position to make the correct "choice" it appears that their free will was worthless. The situation they found themselves in simply controlled their "free will".
"Defective only if it was possible to create beings that would never choose Hell yet be fit for Heaven."
Are you saying that it would be impossible for God to do that ?
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