Tackling immigration (Immigration And The Fair Tax)

Townhall.com ^ | March 30, 2006 | Matt Towery

[Man50D]

The debate about illegal immigration has hit Congress full force. In the end, the real issue in choosing between the president's proposal to sanction illegal aliens with provisional worker status and the tougher counterproposal by many in Congress, is that in addressing the problem of undocumented workers, we somehow might harm American businesses and the economy.

Moreover, it's loudly apparent that -- as predicted months ago in this column -- both the White House and the Republican-led Congress are late to the table in tackling this volatile situation.

I tend to side with those who call for a serious effort to close our borders. Yet, I'm not convinced that Bush's proposal doesn't contain some wise provisions that would benefit us all, including the most hardcore conservatives.

Consider the results of a recent InsiderAdvantage/Majority Opinion Research survey, conducted for the Washington, D.C.-based Southern Political Report.

The poll surveyed nine states in the Deep South, where immigration issues are simmering. Forty-one percent of respondents favored cutting off benefits, such as Medicaid, to illegal aliens. Thirty-seven percent preferred that businesses that hire illegals be punished. The rest were undecided.

This was no small survey, with over 4,000 respondents and a margin of error of plus or minus 1.5 percent.

The results tell me that there has been no crystallization of public opinion on this issue, even in a region of the country where the number of illegal aliens has exploded.

This collective ambivalence on the part of Southerners may account for the willingness of the White House to chance a proposal that would offer a "temporary" work program as an essential component to any federal bill.

My inclination is to support the repatriation of illegal aliens to their countries of origin. Most of them work, but they don't pay taxes, even though many frequent the basic tax-supported institutions of our society, including schools and hospital emergency rooms.

And yet the businessman and investor in me says the hard-line approach might not be the one taken by my hero, Ronald Reagan. What would he have done?

First, let's consider that many illegal workers are willing to work jobs that pay too little to attract much of anyone else. Yet even with this huge pool of willing hands, it's still almost impossible for all the businesses that need such labor to find enough of it.

Also, consider the wage inflation that would ultimately infect the economy if this cheap labor force was expelled from our borders. The scarcity of workers would be immediate and drastic. Many industries would feel the price shock of having to replace them, especially the construction industry, which has been among the hottest sectors of our economy in recent years.

Sure, we could cut off all benefits to aliens and throw their children out of school. But this might chill their passion for staying here and working.

Despite the groan I hear from some conservative readers who are in high dudgeon over this approach, I'm going to insist that the principles I'm applying are bona fide conservative ones. They're not pure conservative ideology, but instead amount to pragmatic conservatism. I'm also going to venture a guess that the "Gipper" would have done something similar.

There's just one big difference between a likely Reagan solution and the one proposed by Bush. The current administration has paid only lip service to truly tightening our borders. Anecdotal and empirical evidence from the past five years proves the point.

I'm guessing Reagan would have offered some sort of program designed to start taxing these workers, but not at such a high and immediate rate that it would touch off a downward spiral in the economy by repelling them from work or forcing businesses to pay higher wages to keep them.

At the same time, Reagan probably would have lined the borders with so much law enforcement that those thinking about future illegal entry would routinely think again.

Simultaneous to this unfolding drama, Congress is now showing signs of what this column suggested they do long ago. Because they sense a near-desperate need to embrace a winning political issue, expect the House of Representatives to dust off Congressman John Linder's so-called "Fair Tax" proposal. It has become a cause celebre among many fiscal conservatives and even some moderates, thanks to the consistent championing of it by radio talk show host Neal Boortz and others.

Now the word is spreading that new and bigger giants in the hugely influential world of talk radio, including Sean Hannity, are preparing to push the Linder-Boortz tax plan. As a result, GOP House members reportedly have persuaded Speaker Dennis Hastert that the Fair Tax issue has legs.

Tackling immigration and a new system of taxation could be the last-minute medicine that a slumping Republican Party needs to save itself in the November elections.

[Man50D]

The third to last paragraph states the following:

Because they sense a near-desperate need to embrace a winning political issue, expect the House of Representatives to dust off Congressman John Linder's so-called "Fair Tax" proposal. It has become a cause celebre among many fiscal conservatives and even some moderates, thanks to the consistent championing of it by radio talk show host Neal Boortz and others.

[Man50D]

Fair Tax Ping!

[Paul C. Jesup]

Because they sense a near-desperate need to embrace a winning political issue, expect the House of Representatives to dust off Congressman John Linder's so-called "Fair Tax" proposal. It has become a cause celebre among many fiscal conservatives and even some moderates, thanks to the consistent championing of it by radio talk show host Neal Boortz and others.

Trade "guest worker program" for Fairtax. Interesting idea. But they would have to pass Fairtax first.

[stopem]

What a crock! Muddying the waters when there is a major crisis. Take care of the invaders and deport them FIRST, secure our borders NOW! This so called economy would collapse BS from hell is the ultimate lie, paying an American worker would put a business out of business to those I say to bad grow up, become an American and pay a fair wage, suck it up!

[EternalVigilance]

This writer uses what can only be called Lucy/Charlie Brown kind of argument.

"My inclination is to blah, blah, blah...but really we'd better be pragmatic and blah, blah, blah..."

He puts down the rhetorical football, and just as the reader is ready to kick it...WHOOSH!...he pulls it away!

I have an idea! Let's pass the House bill and take care of our border problem, AND let's pass the FairTax!!

[EternalVigilance]

I tend to side with those who call for a serious effort to close our borders.

Somehow I just ain't buyin' it.

[EternalVigilance]

I know you posted this with the best of intentions, but I have to call it the way I see it.

I do agree to this extent, though:

If congressional leaders want a winning campaign issue, the FairTax is IT!

[wgflyer]

A strong, very strong anti illegal alien program does go very well with the FairTax.

Economics isn't the only reason to deport these illegal immigrants, though. They are bad for America because they are here to plunder, not to assimmilate. They keep their language and hold dear the culture that immersed them for past and many, many future generations in abject poverty and corruption. They are not and will never be Americans, regardless of how much congress patronizes them. Just as our welfare class will not leave poverty so long as government pays them to remain poor. We have allowed our government to take us down the road to becoming a third world nation. You can see it evident in the increases of litter and graffiti, barred windows and doors, homeowner associations and gated communities, high crime rates and increasing corruption as well as a total lack of respect for one another. The government taxes us to death, they use the taxes to line their own pockets and buy votes, they prefer a population of dumbed down poor and even jump at the chance to import them in droves. What they want is a large class of people they can exploit, a worker class, communist style, and this will result in one of two things: Either we will become a nuclear latino corrupt state or we will eventually have revolution with horrible results.

Neither should be very appealing, and where will all these illegals go when they kill the goose that lays the eggs they are stealing and find that they are still poor? Canada? Gimmeabreak.

[Bigun]

I fully expect that we will see both a strong border security bill passed into law and the Fairtax bill moved to the floor of the house before the end of this summer.

[EternalVigilance]

I hope and pray that you're correct.

[ancient_geezer]

A Taxreform bump for you all.

If anyone would like to be added to this ping list let me know.

John Linder in the House(HR25) & Saxby Chambliss Senate(S25) offer a comprehensive bill to kill all income and SS/Medicare payroll taxes outright and replace them with with a national retail sales tax administered by the states.

H.R.25,S.25
A bill to promote freedom, fairness, and economic opportunity by repealing the income tax and other taxes, abolishing the Internal Revenue Service, and enacting a national retail sales tax to be administered primarily by the States.

Refer for additional information:

• search: "national sales tax" OR "national retail sales tax" OR "fairtax"

[n-tres-ted]

I humbly suggest that the president's long-standing approach to immigration reform, plus the Fair Tax Act, are two very significant goods the Congress could do for the country this year. Of the two, HR 25/S 25 is the more significant and beneficial.

[pigdog]

Me, too ... badly needed - both of them.

[samcgwire]

I've said it for a year now - the FairTax might have a chance in an environment of amnesty and Globablization.

Too bad. I like the FairTax, but what does it matter when you lost your nation to the Enemy Within.

[Man50D]

I know you posted this with the best of intentions, but I have to call it the way I see it. I do agree to this extent, though: If congressional leaders want a winning campaign issue, the FairTax is IT!

You should call it the way you see it. I appreciate your honesty. I am confused as my only purpose was to point out there maybe more movement on Capital Hill concerning the Fair Tax than we have heard and not to take a particular stand about the rest of the article. that is why I posted only th Fair Tax paragraph in post #1. It hasn't been reported anywhere else and was buried in this article.

The writer certainly interjected many of his thoughts but in the Fair Tax paragraph stated it has become a cause celebre among many politicians. The writer is stating politicians are actually speaking favorably about the Fair Tax. Time will tell us soon if this writer has any credibility and accuracy.

One drawback about blogging and email is they lack the connotation that only the spoken word can provide.

[FreeKeys]

Take care of the invaders and deport them FIRST, secure our borders NOW!

I sympathize with the sentiments and agree with the borders part. Unfortunately, reality dictates that if you go after the illegals to deport them straight away, the vast majority, especially those who work for individuals and not companies, will go into hiding just like they did in 1953 when Ike tried it. To beat Ike's record you'd have to impose a draconian police state replete with a Gestapo, citizen-on-citizen spying and gulag- or Auschwitz-trains. No thanks.

BUT since they've indicated they'd be willing to sign up for temporary workers cards WHATEVER WE DECIDE TO DO AFTER THAT MEANS WE'D KNOW WHERE TO FIND THEM (wink, wink, nudge, nudge)... Get it?

Further, I'd like to point out that NOBODY seems to be talking about the one crucial policy change which will ameliate the program completely over time: ANY deals with Mexico should include our demands that they institute a free-market system, destroying EVERY bureaucratic impediment (and thereby, opportunities for graft and demands for bribes) to their own people who want to start their own businesses, and tell them to emulate Hong Kong in the 1950’s.

“How a conflict-ridden, grossly over-populated place with no resources whatsoever gets rich is simple. The British colonial government turned Hong Kong into an economic miracle by doing nothing.” – P.J. O’Rourke in Eat the Rich

Anyway, it's worth repeating that, if they're getting away with paying no taxes now, the FairTax will go a long way to correcting that imbalance every time they buy something -- AND they'll get NO prebates or tax refunds like the rest of us.

[Principled]

Thanks for the post Man50D.

I'm glad some are picking up on the fair tax's positive effects in areas other than taxes per se.

Taxining illegals at a rate higher than US legal citizens is obviously going to help defray their costs - if we can get the $ where it goes. Likely we'll see state gov'ts taxing via nrst in much the same way - to hit illegals in the pocketbook to recover some of the costs of having them.

I 'bout spilled my coffe when I read this - how obvious has this been to some of us! We've been waiting and writing saying "LOOK HERE"...

Maybe they'll surprise me more and start seeing how the nrst can help move SS to privatization.

[Kellis91789]

An Temporary Worker Program or Amnesty misses the point by focusing on the illegals already here.

So the 20 million already here get some legal status, and maybe we can find them, and maybe they'll pay some income tax -- although at their wage levels, they probably won't. Does any guest worker program force them to pay SS/M taxes ? I doubt it, since they wouldn't qualify for benefits.

So they become a new class of poor workers. Still cheaper than Americans because Americans have to pay SS/M taxes.

They would immediately face competition from a whole new batch of illegals that can be hired at lower wages/benefits/taxes than the now-legal workers. Because the guest worker program is not for unlimited numbers, there would STILL be additional illegals coming in as long as employers still get an advantage out of hiring them.

The FairTax -- because it puts everyone on an equal footing JUST BY LIVING AND PURCHASING THINGS HERE -- is the only way to really get any taxes out of the illegals already living and working here, and to discourage an entire new batch of illegals from coming in.

For several days now I've been suggesting that the FairTax -- at the State and Local level as well as Federal -- should appeal to the illegal aliens, the businesses that hire them, and conservatives concerned about the resources illegals use without contributing to the tax revenue. In addition to all these groups supporting it, I actually think it will reduce the rewards of working here illegaly enough to discourage it.

[FreeKeys]

An Temporary Worker Program or Amnesty misses the point by focusing on the illegals already here.

There are many, many points, as Herman Cain said on his radio program this evening. You are correct to point out that temp-worker Cards address only one point, but not all points, but there are several different issues here. Most are inter-related, but anyone addressing just one of them does not necessarily mean that the others are thereby being ignored altogether.

IMHO a temp-worker program that REQUIRES the illegal to go home after 2, 4 or 5 years or some SPECIFIC amount of time IS NOT AMNESTY. It IS the ONLY WAY to actually LOCATE AND I.D. most of the illegals, whether we like it or not.

[Kellis91789]

While I'd be all in favor of a draconian deportation scheme, I think the reality is that it won't happen.

I'd love to see a $1,000 bounty available to police officers for delivering an illegal alien to the cattle cars that would take them home. I think that could clear out the 20 million illegals in a few months and at a bargain price of only $20B.

I just don't think the American public has the stomach to face down those that would liken them to the Nazis rounding up the Jews.

Denying them employment and taxing the heck out of them as long as they stay here is the way to get them to go home. Fine the employers a meaningful amount -- $50K per infraction. FairTax at Federal and Local levels and eliminate all income and SS/M taxes, with no rebates available to illegals. The combined Federal and Local rate in California would be about 30%. That would mean low wage legal workers (fully rebated) could live 30% less expensively than illegals. Add in the language and cultural problems and employers will prefer to hire legal workers.

The economy will NOT collapse, either. Farm produce prices would go up 7% in the first year, but mechanization would cause that to fall back to current prices within a few years. The illegal labor portion of home construction reduces the cost of a new home by less than 5%. The illegal labor at hotels shaves probably 2$ a day from your hotel bill. Janitorial services account for less than 1/100th of one percent of a business' revenue, so if it cost double or triple to hire legal workers, prices would go up by some miniscule amount. It is a MYTH that illegal labor is necessary to this economy.

What people seem to miss is that illegal immigration is BAD for Mexico and America both.

Mexico loses: Arguably, the people willing to risk illegaly crossing the border, paying coyotes large sums of money, and going into an environment where they know they won't be treated as well as the Americans around them -- these are the people that are most uncontent in Mexico. These are the people that -- if they were trapped in Mexcio -- might rise up and effect the type of economic and governmental change that would benefit all Mexicans. Instead, America is the relief valve that allows Mexico to simmer but remain below the boiling point that would effect change.

America loses: In addition to all the costs of public services that the illegals do not pay for, and in addition to depressing American wages, there is another issue that most people gloss over. America is losing its edge in PRODUCTIVITY due to the availability of cheap labor. Where a source of cheap labor is not available, capital investment in equipment is used to increase productivity -- productivity is measured as man-hours required to produce some volume of product, so naturally less labor and more mechanization equals higher productivity. Where cheap labor is available, however, innovation doesn't happen. America used to lead the world in mechanization of its industries -- including agriculture -- but now American agricultural productivity lags behind Europe, Australia, and Japan. It is mechanization that changes many jobs from drudgery into something that Americans are willing to do -- at wages little, if any, higher than the manual laborer was paid. Illegal alien Farm workers are actually being paid more than minimum wage, but it is back-breaking work. Many Americans would do that work for minimum wage if it were not so physically arduous.

[Kellis91789]

[It IS the ONLY WAY to actually LOCATE AND I.D. most of the illegals, whether we like it or not.]

How so ? Can we not require proof of citizenship to enroll kids in schools ? When providing emergency services ? Traffic stops ? Can't we offer bounties to police officers for bringing them in ? Offer rewards to the general populace for identifying them ?

Hasn't it been 20 years or so since every child born in the US was required to have an SS# applied for right at birth ? Don't all driver's licenses have amgentic strip on them, and police have a computer terminal in the vehicle to verify it ? Doesn't legal employment still require an SS#, taxpayer ID#, Visa#, green card#, etc. ?

If you are here legally, you shouldn't have any trouble at all proving it, and proof should be required whenever employment or a public service is provided.

There are MANY ways to locate and ID, and, yes, deport most of the illegals. What you must mean to say, is that if we rely on the illegals to VOLUNTARILY come forward, then a guest worker program is the only way to ENTICE them to come forward.

Sorry. That's not good enough. I want my government to actually put some effort into punishing these people and removing them from my country. At the very least, I want people who are here illegally to have a painful, expensive, fugitive existence for as long as they insist on remaining here.

[FreeKeys]

If you are here legally, you shouldn't have any trouble at all proving it, and proof should be required whenever employment or a public service is provided.

Right. Unfortunately there are millions of Zoe Bairds and Linda Chavezes who employ individuals and keep their mouths shut.

Which brings up yet another issue; WHY should so much paperwork and BS be required for hiring servants these days, incenting too many people to scoff at being law-abiding?

[Bigun]

I humbly suggest that the president's long-standing approach to immigration reform, plus the Fair Tax Act, are two very significant goods the Congress could do for the country this year. Of the two, HR 25/S 25 is the more significant and beneficial.

Enactment of HR/S 25 into law would be by far the more significant since it would play a key role in correcting a number of ills currently faced by our republic illegal immigration not the least among them.

For example, I think that our current tax system happens to be a key factor in the US having one of the highest incarceration rates in the developed world because it literally screams for one to earn illegitimate income as that type of income is, for the most part, tax free under that system. The fairtax system corrects that because the source(s) of one's income becomes irrelevant.

[pigdog]

Good point, Bigun!!