Posted on 03/31/2006 5:51:19 PM PST by Aliska
Having developed Anti-Scam program we intend to warn you about phenomenon of International dating scam and will do our best try to help you to avoid scamming. We launch our anti-scam campaign and appeal to all people who are in the sphere of Internet dating and international marriage - Foreign men, Russian women and International marriage agencies - as we ALL suffer from scam. MEN scammed by dishonest women stop to believe that it is possible to find a good, loving Russian wife and quit. Less interested men - less opportunities for honest WOMEN to find the right guy for marriage. Serious AGENCIES that invest money into web-site development, offices, equipment lose their customers and business. We want to create a full and complete database of scammers in one place.
(Excerpt) Read more at anti-scam.org ...
Since I have a love for Russia, and since I had the family photos she had asked to see, I stayed up too late putting some out on my webspace and sent her the links.
Being interested in Russia, I looked up the town, general geographical area, etc. Somehow some red flags went up, and I decided to google her email address. Nothing. Then I googled her name and it came up on the site with the same city and province. There are tons of names on that site. I will not give the name. There is a lot of this type of activity in the city she claims to be from.
My son makes a lot of money and is on the heels of a long romance and marriage gone sour so is somewhat vulnerable. I called him and told him we'd been had. He seemed to take it well as he didn't invest anything emotionally in it yet. The other guy who reported her had sent her money for passport and visa, asked to be sent photocopies of them, and finally realized something was up when she needed more money to come here. They probably take the money and run and do not come here if they are scammers.
I am not the kind of mother who pries into every detail of his life; he has his social life, and I know little about the people or girls he meets because that is probably the way it should be until and unless things get serious.
I thought some people might find it interesting as I'd read other news stories, some work out ok, but here I am writing her and warning her that my son is fickle, didn't want to see her get hurt, hope she enjoyed the pictures, and the joke is on my son and me evidently.
Just wanted to tell people to be careful about who you meet on the net, not that most of us don't already know. Sometimes they aren't even "real" people, use phony photos. The scam is they need money for a passport and visa to come to America, then extra money for the trip, and other variations.
Heaven knows what thugs might await an unwary guy who makes the trip to meet them in person.
My son who is in his thirties, wanted me to take some photos for the net, and I warned him way back about meeting women on the web. It can be dangerous and costly, monetarily and emotionally, for both men and women.
Maybe the scam info website is a scam. They want donations. How can we know anything for sure any more?
If this isn't Freeper worthy miscellaneous news, I apologize and the mods can dispose of it however they wish.
I think your right about your suspicions, but I will point something out, from a man' point of view
"she looked a little sleazy but attractive "
can be seen as a very positive description.
Seems funny that they want money to fight scams when there are other free sites out there that post photos of scammers.
CAVEAT EMPTOR!
This site needs money to keep going. That site does, too, lots of names, discussion forums, etc., and besides, that site was the only one her name came up on.
I'm not sending them any money though :-).
Here's a message board with plenty of photos and descriptions.
http://www.russian-scam.org/message.htm
Wise words. It's a shame to think in terms of buying a product when you are looking for a life partner and "true love".
Wow, good looking chicks
I had my credit card out, then I remembered to read the descriptions
I guess the thing is, there is no free lunch, just because it's on the internet doesn't mean you somehow beat the system, and found a mate straight off the pages of Playboy.
She wants to be here a lot more than he wants to be with her.
OMG!!! I just got a long email from her, haven't read it yet. Now I will have to decide what to do. I definitely think she is up to something because I was looking for her name again to check at the other link (darn Russian names are impossible) and remember one of their tricks is not to give a profile and she explained why she decided to use a subterfuge (my word, not hers) and not put up a profile.
Evidently lots of them use different names, so they could be anywhere.
I don't want to toy with her. I will pray about it, what else can I do?
Couple of really pretty girls on that site, some not so wholesome looking.
Uh, you don't know my son. One look at Russia and he could be on the next plane home.
I don't want to encourage him in any more of this.
"I don't want to toy with her. I will pray about it, what else can I do?"
Post her email here
Not her or your address , obviously, just a good portion of the wording
Would it kill him to see where his bride wants to spend Christmas? I wouldn't encourage him either, but he might decide he's old enough to decide anyway. Be careful, and good luck.
You know my first thought when I started kicking it around in my mind after going through years of agony with him and the way he got burned by his beautiful wife.
She might get homesick, and that would make me feel bad for her. That's what I was worried about.
No, but for one reason only. I'm not 100% positive. The guy who turned her in could have been sour grapes or something and I don't want her to get deluged with hate mail.
Somehow I get the feeling that men might behind some of this, men who help them compose the letters in English, get a cut, etc.
This is a shame for nice Russian women who just want love like most women and a chance at a better life.
That's why I corrected with my second message -NOT email addresses, but potions of the message itself - a search using the exact phrases she uses in her email might turn up other cases where people have gotten burned by letters just like this.
I would suggest checking out a site like http://www.womenrussia.com/blacklist.htm. Another source would be to google russian blacklist together.
You may find details on scams that others have reported.
Good luck, and bless you.
The first part seems word for word what she (or the phantom, smile) wrote my son and then added some more.
It sounds like she has a crush on me now :-). I have a motherly heart. She didn't indicate she looked at any of the photos I sent links for but wants to know more about my family. Oh dear.
Some of them do have to go to internet cafes because they don't have computers at home. She says she has to be careful about using the computer at work. That part makes some sense.
There are so many of these women being abused and sold on the world sex slave market; I doubt this is the case here, but it works both ways. If there was any way I could help those women escape, I would, but don't have what it takes in emotional strength to see it through.
As to posting the wording, I know many would be curious, but I hesitate to do that at this point, even if it is a scam. People can put two and two together if they get a letter from a Russian woman who is "glade" to meet you, tells you how many kg's they weigh, etc.
I now realize that when it is a scam, they can morph their names, pictures, letters faster than a cameleon changes colors, so smoking them all out would be difficult. I don't have all the tools to do it. You'd have to go to Russia and run an investigation. That would be a trip.
Regardless of what the women say, there is always an element of the quest for a man with financial stability. It is not wrong to seek for a certain level of stability, since without it, you can't plan for a home and family.
There will be significant cultural differences, especially if the American does not have a lot of exposure to other cultures, which can cause strain on the relationship without folks realizing it.
Be aware that it will cost at least $5,000 to finish the paperwork (or $1,000 in INS fees and copious amounts of your spare time and aggravation), and probably another $20,000 when you figure in multiple trips to Russia, phone calls home, shipping stuff back to family in Russia, etc.
I speak from personal experience as someone who married an Asian and am happily married but much poorer.
The requested URL /blacklist.htm. was not found on this server.
I'm sorry I neglected to respond to this, then I'd better let it be for the night.
What you did for that woman was a very kind and loving thing to do. And sometimes you do have to take a few risks along the way. But you do have to exercise extreme caution.
To everyone who has responded thus far, I appreciate very much the input. Several heads are often better than one.
I fell for a scam like this, except the woman was from the breakaway republic of Kreplachistan.
I've met two very beautiful women from Russia, but I have had hundreds of scammers try and scam me. Be careful!
http://www.stop-scammers.com/browseall.asp
http://www.uaprofiler.com/
http://www.russianwomenblacklist.com/
http://www.anti-scam.org/
http://www.4umatch.co.uk/category/scammers/russian-scammers/online-dating-advice
Before you can make somebody else happy and be happy with them if they are right for you, you have to do some work on yourself.
And, no, I don't fault women for wanting a prosperous husband, although I watched that to the point it nearly made me ill. She didn't want him. She wanted what his money could buy, $5000 ring, fancy coats, beautiful home she didn't want to clean, cook and do laundry, my son had to take care of everything except watch the kids when he had to work, trips to Las Vegas, Florida and sports arenas without him, going out with her friends all the time, staying out all night. I've had to keep my mouth shut because she seems to be good to the children and he is not perfect.
Now she is living on generous child support, hasn't worked a day since she took up with my son, has no intention of ever working, skims money off the insurance for the care of her mother which is a huge policy, shipped her mother off to Florida alone, is 34 years old, is going to marry a 22-year-old man, living together in a swanky apartment. I don't know what he does for a living. That's what can happen to you in these times. But she is a drop dead gorgeous blond and won't get tested for the Huntingdon's disease that has claimed several members of her family. And she isn't all bad. I'm just sad for the boys and my son. She got pregnant by another man, my son married her and they had one of their own. He lived to please her, worked his tail off. He still hurts from it; I can tell, but some would say he brought it on himself.
I did tell him some of the awful things that have happened to other men when their wives don't want them.
Everyone who sees my son's picture says he is a nice looking man, and he has a very generous heart with the rest of his family, some of whom are hurting bad. And he drinks too much now.
Sorry about the non-working link. Don't know what happened to it.
I think RS has included a number of links; a quick google check on 'russian blacklist' I believe will generate some more if needed. Again I wish you luck with this situation.
Thanks, elk1. I'm shutting down for the night. Odd the link went down so fast. I'll check it again tomorrow.
One of the times when I visited the Ukraine, I stayed in a hotel in Kiev that actually had a marriage agency right inside. There was some geeky looking American guy in there looking for a wife and they set him up on a whole bunch of dates.
I don't know how it worked out, but it seems to me it is much more intelligent to actually go and see the merchandise you are buying.
It doesn't cost all that much to go there and spend your vacation on such a quest. This particular agency even sets up events like dances, etc.
I forgot which hotel it was.
Ways to verify their identity...
And don't even get me started on the African scammers. Did you know Nigeria was the vacation mecca for beautiful white models who will fall instantly in love with you, and will come live with you immediately if only you will pay their hotel bill so they can get their passport back? Strangely enough, they grew up in the United States but can barely type broken English. I refer these to the American Embassy that can restore their passport and has a fund to help get them out of the country. You would not believe the excuses not to contact the American embassy.
Your son should be very careful. I was corresponding with a russian woman a couple years ago. I almost fell for the "wire me money for airfare and a visa so I can come to America to be with you" scam. Fortunately I wised up to this scam just in time to save me a lot of grief and embarrasment. Read DannyTN's post #35. Good list of red flags to look for there. One other thing I would mention is that many scammers are sloppy and you can find "cut and paste" sections reused throughout their different emails.
In almost all cases, it is not even possible that a Russian woman can get a visa on her own to get here.
What needs to happen is that the man visits her in her country, gets "evidence" that he met her in person (photos, travel receipts, etc) and apply for a marriage visa to bring her here for a set amount of time. I believe it is 90 days that the couple needs to marry or else she needs to go home.
I'm kind of a believer in fate. That sounds like a nice vacation, something I would enjoy if I could do it. If you happen to meet someone, and things blossom (rare, usually they are just flings), fine.
What we're really dealing with here is that I don't think my son has come to terms with some things in his life, and no woman will work for him until he gets them resolved.
I took a photograph of a lovely woman walking up the hill by herrself during a race, she had that wholesome, all-American look, natural light brown hair, pretty, professional cut, slender might have been spoiled and pretty picky . . . and married :-). I was showing the pictures from that shoot, and asked him why he didn't find a woman like that. She was too flat chested (now this through a jacket). How superficial is that?
But please don't lecture me about that. I know how it is with some men. It's life.
That was the way it was (and much worse one day she was driving and she got mad and said "you wanna die" and deliberately drove into a telephone pole, signs of instability as bad or worse than me; I never wanted or tried to hurt anyone but myself). They made up a story and her father is a police detective, so they got out of that one, and my foolish son married her anyway because she was so pretty, etc. Anyway, during a time late last fall, I was feeling unwell, and my cat needed badly to be seen by the vet. I asked my son if he would please take her for me. Next thing I know, she shows (he was busy and got her to do it) up and shows compassion for my cat and took her to the vet. The examined her, and I was able to go down to pick her up and pay the bill. I was grateful that she did that for me. She also mentioned that she was helping someone with her kids where the mother had cancer.
So I feel kind of bad writing those words. She seems to have a good side.
On a serious note, just how well can something like this work? Given how difficult it is to make relationships work given modern day attitudes and expectations, what realistic chance is there for someone to make it work a half world away?
You hit the nail on the head, bam, bam, bam. That's exactly what I'm thinking.
This whole thing has got me upset and a little paranoid. I hope my son will listen to me, but he has a very expensive car and credit cards. What if he goes to met someone here in our country and there are big tough guys hiding and waiting? I read about a horror story right here on FR about a jeweler who got set up and murdered for the jewels.
Yup. All the warning signs are there. This particular one is new to me; intuitively I would stay away from dating sites, even the upscale ones they advertise on the radio.
I've met some nice men on the net, and some not so nice, but I wasn't looking for romance, just a friend now and then.
Thank heaven you wised up. This is sickening really. American women are disappointing unless you get lucky because of the way they grow up in our society, so naturally men seek out women from other cultures where their values may tend toward the older, conservative ways. They're corrupted all over the planet now, and it's a shame for the nice women who are still out there waiting for a chance and Mr. Right.
This is anonymous, so I'll lay it out there. The last "nice" woman from around here with two kids gave my son herpes. You can imagine what that has done to his psyche. Some will say he deserved it.
Maybe so, but his business partner cheats on his wife, no one wants to be around her because she is so angry and negative and he doesn't want to get a divorce because of his three kids and just built an $800,000 house, doesn't want a divorce because he would be taken to the cleaners financially because he makes so much money, and some people have had umpteen sex partners and test out clean. What a world!
One way or another, you play with fire and you are going to get burned. I learned that lesson in different ways years ago, never found Mr. Right, and at this point can't say but what maybe it's been a blessing. I've been lonely but learned to fill my life with other things, and have probably been spared another divorce or two.
I saved your post. Thanks much!
I should have thought about that after my ex and I divorced. I still had her credit card and I was still listed on it untill I cancelled it. She could have bought me a new wife. lmao
Maybe you can share your experience with these guys.
Tell your son to use a reputable agency and check scam sites.
Yoshkar-Ola.com is decent.
I didn't use an agency however I know folks who have (on both sides of the Atlantic), there's a ton of scams (on both sides of the Atlantic!) best thing is to either go there (and learn Russian first) or use a reputable agency (and again learning the local language isn't optional).
"Offer to have your friend in the Moscow police department meet her to verify her identity before you send her money. That got rid of one real fast. "
LOL! Danny, that will get rid of ALL Russian women real fast. Moscow cops are known for raping women, abusing them, pimping them out, robbing them, etc. I'd be more worried about a Russian gal who would say, "sure, go ahead, I'll meet the militia guy." I lived in Moscow for more than 5 years and I know tons of very nice Russian ladies who quiver and shake any time a car load of Moscow militia cruise by them.
If your son has his heart set on a Russian lady, might I be so bold as to suggest he look here in the States? There are plenty of Russian women in the US (legally) who are either divorced from previous husbands, won the green card lottery, immigrated due to work, or came over as a kid. The single ones can be found on various dating sites (one is specifically for Russians in America and costs nothing- if you're interested let me know and I'll freepmail you the web address). The reason I suggest this is a.) they're already here in the States, and b.) they're not looking for a "passport" since they're already here!
If he's set on going to Russia, I recommend he go with a friend and don't use an agency. It's extremely easy to meet nice girls without the help of those agencies. While I know there are reputable agencies out there, the ones I've seen in action when I lived over there have been horrendus. I was in Odessa, Ukraine about 3 years ago and the hotel I was staying at had a group of men from the States on a bride-hunting trip. What the poor guys didn't know was several of their prospective "brides" worked in the hotel bar as prostitutes. No amount of "background checking" will find this out, as bribery is and will remain the name of the game over there for quite some time.
Basically, the rule of thumb is to stick close to your age group, meet her friends (if she doesn't want you to that's should be a huge red flag), and at the sign of any "doubts" about her back off completely. Also, normal Russian women do NOT ask people they barely know to send them money. They are too proud and consider that sort of thing immoral.
First, my son was just playing, I think, curious about foreign women. He could care less about Russia; he's a neat guy, has a few issues, but plenty of women here would like him. He is the problem. He can't find a new love until he's over his wife. So that's that. Why set up any woman for a disappointment until he's really back on his feet again, if ever?
Now the thing of it is, my granddaughter takes a look at the photos (she's almost 22), I don't even know if they are really of her and states unequivocally that she's a whore. One picture doesn't match the other two, but I'm not good at these things.
I looked up the IP address of the mail server; it is owned by a Russian couple(?) out of Washington State here in the US, I think but it also says Amsterdam. I've been through the red light district at night there, and I felt like it was a trip through hell.
The ISP or whatever is rambler.ru
OrgName: RIPE Network Coordination Centre OrgID: RIPE Address: P.O. Box 10096 City: Amsterdam StateProv: PostalCode: 1001EB Count82.198.27.164 Record Type: IP Address ry: NL ReferralServer: whois://whois.ripe.net:43 NetRange: 82.0.0.0 - 82.255.255.255 CIDR: 82.0.0.0/8 NetName: 82-RIPE NetHandle: NET-82-0-0-0-1 Parent: NetType: Allocated to RIPE NCC NameServer: NS-PRI.RIPE.NET NameServer: NS3.NIC.FR NameServer: SEC1.APNIC.NET NameServer: SEC3.APNIC.NET NameServer: SUNIC.SUNET.SE NameServer: TINNIE.ARIN.NET Comment: These addresses have been further assigned to users in Comment: the RIPE NCC region. Contact information can be found in Comment: the RIPE database at http://www.ripe.net/whois RegDate: 2002-11-23 Updated: 2004-03-16 % This is the RIPE Whois query server #1. % The objects are in RPSL format. % % Note: the default output of the RIPE Whois server % is changed. Your tools may need to be adjusted. See % http://www.ripe.net/db/news/abuse-proposal-20050331.html % for more details. % % Rights restricted by copyright. % See http://www.ripe.net/db/copyright.html % Note: This output has been filtered. % To receive output for a database update, use the "-B" flag. % Information related to '82.198.27.0 - 82.198.27.255' inetnum: 82.198.27.0 - 82.198.27.255 netname: NATA-INFO descr: Nata-Info Dial-Up Network country: RU admin-c: LKV2000-RIPE tech-c: EVE7-RIPE status: ASSIGNED PA mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered person: Kirill V Lupandin address: SatGate LLC address: 942 Windemere Dr. NW address: OR 82001 Salem address: USA remarks: phone: +7 0112 573 073 phone: +7 4012 573 073 remarks: fax-no: +7 0112 573 071 fax-no: +7 4012 573 071 e-mail: kirill@satgatellc.com nic-hdl: LKV2000-RIPE mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered remarks: modified for Russian phone area changes person: Elena V Egorova address: 942 Windemere Dr. NW address: OR 82001 Salem address: USA remarks: phone: +7 0112 573 073 phone: +7 4012 573 073 remarks: fax-no: +7 0112 573 071 fax-no: +7 4012 573 071 e-mail: jeg@satgatellc.com nic-hdl: EVE7-RIPE mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered remarks: modified for Russian phone area changes % Information related to '82.198.27.0/24AS21166' route: 82.198.27.0/24 descr: Nata-Info Dial-Up Network origin: AS21166 mnt-by: SATGATE-MNT source: RIPE # Filtered
I'm blocked at getting past this first tier, note this is just a block of numbers. I bolded the IP address on the header of her email. I don't know how to decode headers any further. Those look like European phone numbers to me.
Now as far as I know, she could not exist, could be held in thrall by some pimp who is intercepting and controlling her, writing the letters, interpreting them, etc. I ain't sympathetic to no male pimp.
What if she is trapped in something somewhere else? I've no reason to assume she is anywhere other than somewhere in Tatarstan, Russia.
There isn't much I can do, a soul is worth $100, but I don't trust the investigators over there. I hope my son doesn't have any more entanglements with her, but she might be a person who needs help. I'm not sending her any money. I just don't know what to do.
Behind the makup and tramp look, I see a pretty girl who may really want to come to this country or a happier life. Or she could like her lifestyle, what do I know? There are other ways of getting what you want. There are lots of Russian men in Chicago, 200 miles from me. We don't even have a Russian Orthodox Church here, just two Greek Orthodox churches. She says she is Christian; that means nothing. My son says that, too, but he's very nominal and doesn't go to church since his wife didn't want anything to do with it once she had her church wedding.
So I'm going to do a few more searches on the text of the emails from her to me and my son and try to figure out the best thing to say and write her back telling her I believe she is involved in a scam and maybe if she wants something better, there is something that can be done. If she is addicted to drugs, I'm not willing to try to help her further.
I know there is a terrible sex slave trade with Russian women, and I think it is awful. Some are held against their will.
I don't give a rat's ass about those Nigerian scammers, but if this girl is for real, I do care about her fate, just don't want it to be with my son. And I don't want to get in over my head, but maybe destiny has a hand in this for me somehow, but not as a matchmaker. I'm not a real preachy type, but I do have firm traditional values.
If this is a scam and someone is trapped in it who wants out, I want to help however I can if only to put her in touch with decent people who could help her.
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