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Battle Brews As Porn Moves Into Mainstream
Breitbrat ^ | 04/01/2006 | David Crary

Posted on 04/01/2006 5:37:42 PM PST by Panerai

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To: Panerai

Enjoy these flash in the pan thrill at your own peril, each episode is a vote towards your eternal resident!


141 posted on 04/01/2006 11:14:32 PM PST by restornu
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To: Panerai
I admit it...I'm addicted to carpron

Carpron

142 posted on 04/01/2006 11:24:04 PM PST by wallcrawlr (http://www.bionicear.com)
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To: Caesar Soze
post # 139 is absolutely brilliant, it pretty much summarizes the whole anti-porn discussion here, done with humor. Great observation.
143 posted on 04/01/2006 11:27:08 PM PST by Panerai
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To: restornu

"Enjoy these flash in the pan thrill at your own peril, each episode is a vote towards your eternal resident!" - Huh ???? WTF are you smoking tonight?


144 posted on 04/01/2006 11:28:23 PM PST by Panerai
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To: Panerai

Bump to see where this goes. I'm fading.


145 posted on 04/01/2006 11:31:57 PM PST by JimRed ("Hey, hey, Teddy K., how many girls did you drown today?")
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To: MarkL
Not cable system. Internet. And like I said, my wife ran into someone printing bestiality pictures out on the lab printer when we were in college years ago. Other Freepers have also discussed this sort of pornography in other discussions of this topic.
146 posted on 04/01/2006 11:42:24 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: MarkL
You build a private road, on your own private property, and you can go as fast as you like, for as long as you like.

And I can name plenty of other things you can't do in the privacy of your own property, including paying for sex and doing drugs. I know many libertarians argue that those things should be legal. But my point is that we don't live in the society run by libertarian rules.

147 posted on 04/01/2006 11:45:18 PM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Panerai

no disrespect but if you are a non believer than what I say has no weight in your mind!

there is no need to prove how macho you can get with your bad words!


148 posted on 04/01/2006 11:52:31 PM PST by restornu
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To: Celtjew Libertarian; Question_Assumptions
Porn is about defilement of what is innocent. This is why it is so dangerous. It turns women into whores and men into whore-mongers -- and tries to turn children into the same while making pedophiles of men. It is a perversion of what is meant to be good, and sacred and loving. The secret of porn is that it is abusing the person partaking of it himself -- and he doesn't know it's changing him. Ted Bundy David Westerfield, the list is endless as to the victims of porn.

Torturing someone for their faith in God, CeltJew, is quite a different story from torturing someone for sexual gratification. Again, it is a defilement of both persons.
149 posted on 04/02/2006 12:07:13 AM PST by Californiajones ("The apprehension of beauty is the cure for apathy" - Thomas Aquinas)
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To: Panerai

Fat chicks and bearded guys with ponytails hate porn.


150 posted on 04/02/2006 12:12:05 AM PST by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: Petronski
You hate the Roman Catholic Church and love porn.

You're projecting.

L

151 posted on 04/02/2006 12:14:50 AM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everyone else shows me their hands.)
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To: Caesar Soze
Since at least a few of these points address points I made...

1. Remember that correlation = causation, even if it's an untested correlation! Did some psycho killer have boxes full of latex fetish porn? Then clearly, pornography causes otherwise harmless people to become psycho murderers. Remember, anything connected to a crime caused that crime.

As with all things sociological and psychological, how does one prove causation? This is a game that gets played any time any influence is raised as having a role in some behavior. Of course the issue really isn't one of causation but of influence, but let's not let that get in the way of a good rant.

2. Use anecdotal evidence, the more perverse, the better.

Several of the examples given point specifically to a problem with pornography. Perhaps the people in question would have developed a knitting fetish or obsession with disco dancing that would destroy their families and ruin their careers if they never encountered pornography, but somehow, I doubt it.

3. Set up demonic straw men. Even though no one is discussing things like child pornography or bestiality, which are already illegal, doesn't mean you can't! With some clever wordplay, you can make it look like the college student with a dog-eared copy of Playboy in his bathroom is, in fact, a latent pedophile.

If the claim against restricting pornography is a sweeping and unrestricted right to free speech, it's fair game to wonder how those who value free speech so deeply can reconcile those beliefs with the illegality of child pornography and bestiality. If people believe that free speech is absolute, then they should oppose the banning of all pornography, regardless of content. If the content matters, then it is a very different debate. But, hey, ranting about inaliable rights is always preferable to making a reasoned argument concerning the specific merits of the issue, right? But I do find it curious that so many pornography defenders seem unwilling to qualify their specific beliefs about what should be legal and what should be banned, if anything. Why is that?

4. Get the weirdies! Did you know that some people derive pleasure from bondage, domination, baby roleplay, same sex relationships, fursuits, Slip-N-Slides, and Catholic school girl uniforms? Did you know that these people make pornography with consenting adults? Gross! Find the weirdest fetish you can and make a big deal about it; everyone else will be so grossed out by your find that they'll quickly agree with you that all pornography is evil.

Again, the claim is that anything consenting adults consent to is OK. I want to know if that's really true or if these defenders of absolute freedom have a line or not. It's funny that your list is pretty tame. Read how nutty it gets. What about defecation? Torture? Do you have the guts to tell me whether you think it's just fine for a woman to get paid to consent to have her breasts nailed to a board? Yes or no. Qualify your answer if your really need to.

5. Get the libertarians! You just know that everyone who advocates pornography is a pot-smoking, open-borders, sexually promiscuous, pacifist, atheist, libertarian, right? When you bring that up, you're sure to shut them down. If that doesn't work, just snidely ask them about their own porn collection, and they'll slink away.

The reason why people were "getting the libertarians" is because the generic libertarian arguments (e.g., whatever two consenting adults do is their own business, etc.) were being tossed out to defend pornography. And of course it really is interesting to see people run away from those arguments when those arguments force them to defend something really shocking. Either you believe in absolutes or you don't. If you do, then be big enough to stand by them when the going gets rough. If you don't, don't use them as an argument.

6. Get the non-parents! All of this is being done for the chillrun.

Yes, heaven forbid society give a darn about children. Shouldn't they all be locked inside with the curtains drawn where they belong?

Now, for how to defend pornography:

1) Pretend all pornography consists of a single nude woman, tastefully posed, or two people having standard missionary sex to downplay how twisted a lot of pornography gets. Who would object to that but a religious fanatic? Pornography needs to sound as normal and artsy as possible for people to accept it.

2) Claim moral absolutes concerning freedom by shy away from owning up to the full implications of those absolutes so you don't look like a freak. How dare people interfere with free speech or what a person does in the privacy of their own home do. Nevermind that free speech isn't absolute and plenty of things a person does in the privacy of their own home are restricted. High minded absolutes sound principled, even if you run away from the implications of those principles that aren't so easy to defend.

3) Talk about consent to imply that all pornography is consential and coercion and desperation are never involved. It's useful to buy the pornography industry's mythology that all porn starts are well adjusted individuals who love what they do here. Make sure you ignore the seeder side of pornography that involves real pain, injury, and humiliation. See point (1) above.

4) Make fun of the opposition as religious kooks. If it works for the pro-abortion people, it can work for you because everyone knows that religion is worthless because it's just a bunch of stuffy people who want to tell you what to do. And everyone knows that religion is a personal matter that should never be used for determining public morality or laws.

5) Ignore the people destroyed by porn. They are simply anecdotal stories, perverts, or people who had other problems. Of course pornography had nothing to do with their problems, even if they spent inordinate amounts of time and money consuming porn. What really destroyed Bob Crane's career and two marriages was his insecurity over success, not the fact that he was spending tons of time watching pornography and sharing his hobby with others who were too stuffy to appreciate it. Insist that pornography is harmless.

6) Supply your own anectodal evidence. Remind them that you consume porn and you are OK. Remind them that your friends consume porn and they are OK. If a lot of people are OK after watching porn, then everyone must be.

152 posted on 04/02/2006 12:40:35 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions

You are right and the knuckle-dragging porn addicts on here are wrong.

This is identical to the smoking threads. The smokers are convinced all the research is wrong, it's a conspiracy theory by non-smokers, blah blah blah. No matter what the addiction, the addicts want to convince everyone that they are right and what they are doing is harmless to themselves and the people around them. You can't convince them otherwise, they have to experience a personal tragedy related to the addiction before they will turn their lives around. And sometimes that doesn't even work.


153 posted on 04/02/2006 7:21:25 AM PDT by tuffydoodle (Shut up voices, or I'll poke you with a Q-Tip again.)
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To: Question_Assumptions

Good post


154 posted on 04/02/2006 7:26:36 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: al baby
Here is another amateur.

Image hosting by Photobucket

155 posted on 04/02/2006 7:31:56 AM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways Guero ╗ with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona....)
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Comment #156 Removed by Moderator

To: Question_Assumptions

Porn is for folks who aren't getting any or need extra stimulation to stoke the fires.

I'm a guy and I don't mind looking at naked women but looking at naked men with them reeks too much of "I love you man".

I think hardcore Porn is a sordid business filled with immoral opportunists and society's rejects (but the women are more attractive now than in the 60s and 70s)who are usually burdened by some early degradation in their lives. The guys may do it just to get laid or paid ....though it's not much.

There is a seamy side to the whole affair and would appear to involve organized crime in the distribution end.

All that said....porn only demonstrates what society tolerates in the open.. just like queerdom. It's gotten more open too.

I'm ambivalent about it. It's a dirty business but I know why some folks need it and why some folks just like it....and why others participate in it.

There is no doubt it defies most religious covenants.

And it is usually rough on women....that is the attraction for many. Soft lovey dovey porn is for couples. Gang bangs are for young somewhat frustrated horndogs.

though it would appear that there are a lot of pretty promiscuous women out there today doing amateur porn.

Porn has sorta eclipsed the mystery of a woman's sexuality boys used to inherently have. Now they know every trick early on and expect all women to be panthers..lol

unreality....i remember the first porn cards I saw as a boy back in 67 or so...I was 10....women....seemed pretty exotic to me then. hell now your average 15 year lad is bound to be jaded by all the visual stuff.....that is a shame and takes away a lot.

oh well...like I said...ambivalent....I sure would not want my girls around it


157 posted on 04/02/2006 7:41:30 AM PDT by wardaddy (you get older and you realize "tired" and "sleepy" are way different)
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To: ccmay

"I don't follow you. Drug legalization would take meth labs totally out of residential neighborhoods, and put them in industrial parks. "

Ahhh...won't that be grand? Industrial parks spewing pollution to their surroundings just so people can lose their minds and their teeth.
A large portion of society not sleeping for days on end engaging in mass crimes sprees.

Sounds wonderful.


158 posted on 04/02/2006 8:13:14 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: MarkL

"Just a note: Child porn is already a crime. Just thought you might like to know.

Mark"

That wasn't the point I was arguing...but if you like taking comments out of context just to be a smart a$$....then you've done a good job.


159 posted on 04/02/2006 8:18:49 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Ban Draoi Marbh Draoi

"Years ago, I read that vice cops who been out on the streets a long time will you that anytime they bust a sex offender, they will find reams of porn in his house and that the crimes he committed were inspired by his porn collection."

Yes. One reason I take the position I do concerning pornography is partially due to what I have heard from friends of mine who either are policemen - or who assist in child abuse investigations.

For what it's worth - I also think it should be illegal to sell products like Grand Theft Auto to children and teens.



160 posted on 04/02/2006 8:23:25 AM PDT by Scotswife
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