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Battle Brews As Porn Moves Into Mainstream
Breitbrat ^ | 04/01/2006 | David Crary

Posted on 04/01/2006 5:37:42 PM PST by Panerai

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To: Petronski
You hate the Roman Catholic Church and love porn.

You're projecting.

L

151 posted on 04/02/2006 12:14:50 AM PST by Lurker (In God I trust. Everyone else shows me their hands.)
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To: Caesar Soze
Since at least a few of these points address points I made...

1. Remember that correlation = causation, even if it's an untested correlation! Did some psycho killer have boxes full of latex fetish porn? Then clearly, pornography causes otherwise harmless people to become psycho murderers. Remember, anything connected to a crime caused that crime.

As with all things sociological and psychological, how does one prove causation? This is a game that gets played any time any influence is raised as having a role in some behavior. Of course the issue really isn't one of causation but of influence, but let's not let that get in the way of a good rant.

2. Use anecdotal evidence, the more perverse, the better.

Several of the examples given point specifically to a problem with pornography. Perhaps the people in question would have developed a knitting fetish or obsession with disco dancing that would destroy their families and ruin their careers if they never encountered pornography, but somehow, I doubt it.

3. Set up demonic straw men. Even though no one is discussing things like child pornography or bestiality, which are already illegal, doesn't mean you can't! With some clever wordplay, you can make it look like the college student with a dog-eared copy of Playboy in his bathroom is, in fact, a latent pedophile.

If the claim against restricting pornography is a sweeping and unrestricted right to free speech, it's fair game to wonder how those who value free speech so deeply can reconcile those beliefs with the illegality of child pornography and bestiality. If people believe that free speech is absolute, then they should oppose the banning of all pornography, regardless of content. If the content matters, then it is a very different debate. But, hey, ranting about inaliable rights is always preferable to making a reasoned argument concerning the specific merits of the issue, right? But I do find it curious that so many pornography defenders seem unwilling to qualify their specific beliefs about what should be legal and what should be banned, if anything. Why is that?

4. Get the weirdies! Did you know that some people derive pleasure from bondage, domination, baby roleplay, same sex relationships, fursuits, Slip-N-Slides, and Catholic school girl uniforms? Did you know that these people make pornography with consenting adults? Gross! Find the weirdest fetish you can and make a big deal about it; everyone else will be so grossed out by your find that they'll quickly agree with you that all pornography is evil.

Again, the claim is that anything consenting adults consent to is OK. I want to know if that's really true or if these defenders of absolute freedom have a line or not. It's funny that your list is pretty tame. Read how nutty it gets. What about defecation? Torture? Do you have the guts to tell me whether you think it's just fine for a woman to get paid to consent to have her breasts nailed to a board? Yes or no. Qualify your answer if your really need to.

5. Get the libertarians! You just know that everyone who advocates pornography is a pot-smoking, open-borders, sexually promiscuous, pacifist, atheist, libertarian, right? When you bring that up, you're sure to shut them down. If that doesn't work, just snidely ask them about their own porn collection, and they'll slink away.

The reason why people were "getting the libertarians" is because the generic libertarian arguments (e.g., whatever two consenting adults do is their own business, etc.) were being tossed out to defend pornography. And of course it really is interesting to see people run away from those arguments when those arguments force them to defend something really shocking. Either you believe in absolutes or you don't. If you do, then be big enough to stand by them when the going gets rough. If you don't, don't use them as an argument.

6. Get the non-parents! All of this is being done for the chillrun.

Yes, heaven forbid society give a darn about children. Shouldn't they all be locked inside with the curtains drawn where they belong?

Now, for how to defend pornography:

1) Pretend all pornography consists of a single nude woman, tastefully posed, or two people having standard missionary sex to downplay how twisted a lot of pornography gets. Who would object to that but a religious fanatic? Pornography needs to sound as normal and artsy as possible for people to accept it.

2) Claim moral absolutes concerning freedom by shy away from owning up to the full implications of those absolutes so you don't look like a freak. How dare people interfere with free speech or what a person does in the privacy of their own home do. Nevermind that free speech isn't absolute and plenty of things a person does in the privacy of their own home are restricted. High minded absolutes sound principled, even if you run away from the implications of those principles that aren't so easy to defend.

3) Talk about consent to imply that all pornography is consential and coercion and desperation are never involved. It's useful to buy the pornography industry's mythology that all porn starts are well adjusted individuals who love what they do here. Make sure you ignore the seeder side of pornography that involves real pain, injury, and humiliation. See point (1) above.

4) Make fun of the opposition as religious kooks. If it works for the pro-abortion people, it can work for you because everyone knows that religion is worthless because it's just a bunch of stuffy people who want to tell you what to do. And everyone knows that religion is a personal matter that should never be used for determining public morality or laws.

5) Ignore the people destroyed by porn. They are simply anecdotal stories, perverts, or people who had other problems. Of course pornography had nothing to do with their problems, even if they spent inordinate amounts of time and money consuming porn. What really destroyed Bob Crane's career and two marriages was his insecurity over success, not the fact that he was spending tons of time watching pornography and sharing his hobby with others who were too stuffy to appreciate it. Insist that pornography is harmless.

6) Supply your own anectodal evidence. Remind them that you consume porn and you are OK. Remind them that your friends consume porn and they are OK. If a lot of people are OK after watching porn, then everyone must be.

152 posted on 04/02/2006 12:40:35 AM PST by Question_Assumptions
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To: Question_Assumptions

You are right and the knuckle-dragging porn addicts on here are wrong.

This is identical to the smoking threads. The smokers are convinced all the research is wrong, it's a conspiracy theory by non-smokers, blah blah blah. No matter what the addiction, the addicts want to convince everyone that they are right and what they are doing is harmless to themselves and the people around them. You can't convince them otherwise, they have to experience a personal tragedy related to the addiction before they will turn their lives around. And sometimes that doesn't even work.


153 posted on 04/02/2006 7:21:25 AM PDT by tuffydoodle (Shut up voices, or I'll poke you with a Q-Tip again.)
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To: Question_Assumptions

Good post


154 posted on 04/02/2006 7:26:36 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: al baby
Here is another amateur.

Image hosting by Photobucket

155 posted on 04/02/2006 7:31:56 AM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (7 days - 7 ways Guero ╗ with a floating, shifting, ever changing persona....)
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Comment #156 Removed by Moderator

To: Question_Assumptions

Porn is for folks who aren't getting any or need extra stimulation to stoke the fires.

I'm a guy and I don't mind looking at naked women but looking at naked men with them reeks too much of "I love you man".

I think hardcore Porn is a sordid business filled with immoral opportunists and society's rejects (but the women are more attractive now than in the 60s and 70s)who are usually burdened by some early degradation in their lives. The guys may do it just to get laid or paid ....though it's not much.

There is a seamy side to the whole affair and would appear to involve organized crime in the distribution end.

All that said....porn only demonstrates what society tolerates in the open.. just like queerdom. It's gotten more open too.

I'm ambivalent about it. It's a dirty business but I know why some folks need it and why some folks just like it....and why others participate in it.

There is no doubt it defies most religious covenants.

And it is usually rough on women....that is the attraction for many. Soft lovey dovey porn is for couples. Gang bangs are for young somewhat frustrated horndogs.

though it would appear that there are a lot of pretty promiscuous women out there today doing amateur porn.

Porn has sorta eclipsed the mystery of a woman's sexuality boys used to inherently have. Now they know every trick early on and expect all women to be panthers..lol

unreality....i remember the first porn cards I saw as a boy back in 67 or so...I was 10....women....seemed pretty exotic to me then. hell now your average 15 year lad is bound to be jaded by all the visual stuff.....that is a shame and takes away a lot.

oh well...like I said...ambivalent....I sure would not want my girls around it


157 posted on 04/02/2006 7:41:30 AM PDT by wardaddy (you get older and you realize "tired" and "sleepy" are way different)
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To: ccmay

"I don't follow you. Drug legalization would take meth labs totally out of residential neighborhoods, and put them in industrial parks. "

Ahhh...won't that be grand? Industrial parks spewing pollution to their surroundings just so people can lose their minds and their teeth.
A large portion of society not sleeping for days on end engaging in mass crimes sprees.

Sounds wonderful.


158 posted on 04/02/2006 8:13:14 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: MarkL

"Just a note: Child porn is already a crime. Just thought you might like to know.

Mark"

That wasn't the point I was arguing...but if you like taking comments out of context just to be a smart a$$....then you've done a good job.


159 posted on 04/02/2006 8:18:49 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Ban Draoi Marbh Draoi

"Years ago, I read that vice cops who been out on the streets a long time will you that anytime they bust a sex offender, they will find reams of porn in his house and that the crimes he committed were inspired by his porn collection."

Yes. One reason I take the position I do concerning pornography is partially due to what I have heard from friends of mine who either are policemen - or who assist in child abuse investigations.

For what it's worth - I also think it should be illegal to sell products like Grand Theft Auto to children and teens.



160 posted on 04/02/2006 8:23:25 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: ThinkDifferent

Did I mention any kind of assault?

Nope.


161 posted on 04/02/2006 8:24:13 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: ashtanga

"It is not pornography that is so harmful, but it's alliance with Hollywood, television, rock and roll and the low arts in general"

It is the saturation that is so harmful.
And now it is going to be in passing automobiles, on the sidewalks, in restaurants - as more people begin downloading this crap onto their new ipods.

And if I fail to keep my kids from seeing someone's filth on a passing ipod, I'm sure I will be accused for being a bad mother for not "shielding" my children better.


162 posted on 04/02/2006 8:27:40 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: MarkL

Your substition of words isn't applicable. Guns and porn have nothing in common whatsoever other than the fact that they are two classes of objects in the world.

Can you substitute "vegetables" or "snow tires"? No? Well, "guns" doesn't make sense either.

Your support of pornography is weakening your reasoning ability.


163 posted on 04/02/2006 8:28:04 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: MarkL

"And Bundy making an execution eve interview blaming his crims on porn don't count."

How convenient for you. So...when you see someone contradict your position you just dismiss it.
Hey - if it works for you!
I'm not buying it.


164 posted on 04/02/2006 8:30:09 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: ▀udda▀udd

Thats one hairy pussy cat


165 posted on 04/02/2006 8:32:31 AM PDT by al baby (Father of the Beeber)
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To: Lurker
Oh man here we go again.

Victorian Prohibitions

Interest in sexual relationships is nothing new and therapeutic devices, sometimes quite bizarre, have always been available (94). Many athletes refrain from sexual activities prior to competition with the belief that strengths and abilities will otherwise be reduced. Masturbation, or onanism, has been associated with the development of weakness, mental illness, neurologic disorders, blindness, and so on for generations. Many ways to "cure" this habit were available in the 19th century (95-97).

A Victorian "cure" for excessive masturbation.../


166 posted on 04/02/2006 8:32:55 AM PDT by Kozak (Anti Shahada: " There is no God named Allah, and Muhammed is his False Prophet")
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To: JAWs
Like sprained wrists?

and carnal tunnel syndrome.

167 posted on 04/02/2006 8:33:22 AM PDT by slimer (I hope life isn't a big joke, because I don't get it.)
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To: Question_Assumptions

Excellent rebuttal.

And just remember, the pro-porn crowd are on the same team as the ACLU and Larry Flynt, their hero!


168 posted on 04/02/2006 8:35:25 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: Scotswife
"And Bundy making an execution eve interview blaming his crims on porn don't count."

How convenient for you. So...when you see someone contradict your position you just dismiss it.

Hey - if it works for you!

I'm not buying it.

So, let me get this straight. You're "buying" into Ted Bundy's statements that it was porn that turned him into a serial killer...

And I'm not buying Bundy's pre-execution revelations that it was porn that made him murder those women. Bundy was well known for his maniputlations of the press and legal system. I would be willing to bet that he got quite a good laugh at getting the people he despised to believe what he fed them, hook, line, and sinker.

Mark

169 posted on 04/02/2006 8:45:07 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: little jeremiah
Let's not forget, that Porn, (perversion) was the beginning of the end for all great societies. From Babylon, Greek, Roman, right on down to our time period, the historical record does not make exceptions to this moral rule.

Anyone who tries to claim that we are any different in this day and age, are either naive or ignorant.

170 posted on 04/02/2006 8:48:41 AM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP (Pat Buchanan............A principled pessimist with a pessimistic principal)
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To: little jeremiah
Your substition of words isn't applicable. Guns and porn have nothing in common whatsoever other than the fact that they are two classes of objects in the world.

Can you substitute "vegetables" or "snow tires"? No? Well, "guns" doesn't make sense either.

Your support of pornography is weakening your reasoning ability.

Not at all. Propagandists will use the same sorts of statements, no matter what they are trying to demonize. You claim that porn hurts children. Sara Brady claims that handguns hurt children, and in fact, uses similar arguments to the ones you posted previously. As I said, your quote would fit right in with the gun banners crowd, if you just replaced the word porn with handguns.

Mark

171 posted on 04/02/2006 8:50:14 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: MarkL

I think it's possible for a person to reflect on their life and state where they think it went wrong.

I have seen too much damage to people's lives to buy into the notion that porn is harmless.

That you find it easy to dismiss it is not surprising to me.


172 posted on 04/02/2006 8:52:58 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: little jeremiah
And just remember, the pro-porn crowd are on the same team as the ACLU and Larry Flynt, their hero!

Hey! That's a good one!!!! I'll bet we can find all sorts of unsavory groups and people that agree with ONE of the views of the people we should demonize... Let's see... Hey! I've got one! The KKK is for securing the borders of the US! "And just remember, the anti-illegal-immigration crowd are on the same side as the KKK, their heros!" Hey, that was easy! Should we try some more? We all know that the radical islamists as well as other religious crackpots are all for their own "forms of morality." How about this... "And just remember, the anti-porn crowd are on the same team as the Taliban, and Fred Phelps, their hero!"

Hey! This is easy!

Mark

173 posted on 04/02/2006 8:56:28 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: PSYCHO-FREEP

Or will assume any position in order to support their own vice.


174 posted on 04/02/2006 8:57:52 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: MarkL

You're really stretching it. Your statements are 100% illogical. Some stuff does harm children, some doesn't, etc.

I'm a gun owner and have a concealed carry permit. I am a strong supporter of my Constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and your rights too.

In essence, your feeble argument is that anyone who says that anything at all will harm children is a drooling liberal who wants to take guns away. That no one should give a s*** about children. So what if kids are damaged by either seeing porn or being around adults who "use" it and are damaged by the adults selfish and vicious attitudes towards sex. Who cares.

All that matters is that porn freaks get off.


175 posted on 04/02/2006 9:01:39 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: MarkL

Stretching it again.

The ACLU and Larry Flynt are the actual reason porn is legal. They are the point men, the vanguard, the supporters and defenders. They aren't just some flakes on the fringes, they're your main men. They're the heroes who made E-Z porn what it is today.

Just to take apart one of your "arguments", I've never read of the KKK's position on borders - but I have read of the ACLU's and Flynt's position on porn - they're the big dogs. They are powerful, especially the ACLU, and the funny thing is, the ACLU is always wrong, all the time, and supports every manner of leftist causes.

The KKK and Taliban's philosophies have zero to do with any of the conservative positions I hold or the others who share similar conservative views.

My point is valid, since the ACLU and Flynt are central to the discussion; whereas your bringing in the Taliban and Phelps (a Democrat and FO AlGore) are red herrings.

Anyone who "needs" porn to have a sex life is a miserable human being.


176 posted on 04/02/2006 9:07:42 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: Scotswife

I was thinking among my acquaintances and thought of at least a couple more men whose lives are messed up due to porn. So I know at least 5, and I am a veritable hermit.


177 posted on 04/02/2006 9:09:33 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: Panerai
When did America become the Wankers' Paradise?

One Pornmonger and one of his whores was invited to a Nat'l Republican Congressional Convention. Pandering to lust is bipartisan, alas.

178 posted on 04/02/2006 9:16:49 AM PDT by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: Scotswife
That you find it easy to dismiss it is not surprising to me.

I find it easy to dismiss people who claim that their lives have been destroyed by inanimate objects. It's the choices that they make that determine what direction their lives take. I've known people who have had all sorts of chances to change their lives, and have refused to make the effort to do so. I know a woman who I spent the last year coresponding with while she was in prison, and less than a week after she was released, she's disappeared. As far as I know, she's doing drugs again, and back into prostitution, to get money for her drugs. She was staying with a decent family who opened their home to her, in order to help her get back on her feet. I'm finished with her. I'll continue to try helping people who want to change their lives, but I will not listen to people who try to blame their lot in life on inanimate objects.

There are some people who claim that some people are "slaves" to their "addictions." BULL! Words mean something. Slavery is where people or a government oppress someone. People living under those conditions are people who deserve the sympathy of being considered a victim, and deserve to be helped by others. Claiming to be a slave to addictions is claiming that you have no control over your own life.

Mark

179 posted on 04/02/2006 9:24:38 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: MarkL

So you think there is no such thing as addiction to anything?


180 posted on 04/02/2006 9:35:07 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: little jeremiah

"I was thinking among my acquaintances and thought of at least a couple more men whose lives are messed up due to porn. So I know at least 5, and I am a veritable hermit."

It is probably very difficult, also, to determine the affects it has on marriages.
We know one couple who try to "spice up" their marriage by viewing porn.
Only -their marriage has only gotten worse.

Normal sex is no longer stimulating. They both are obsessed with how they look.
And they forget that the images they view are not real.
The people they are viewing don't look like that in real life - nor do they act like that in real life.

I remember reading an article where the journalist interviewed about 10 different porn stars about their lives.
Questions you would expect about their "career" and their normal sex lives.

Every single one of them was in the business because they were desparate for money.
Every single one of them was planning on getting out of the business.
And not a single one of them allowed their boyfriends to perform anal sex - they all hated it.


181 posted on 04/02/2006 9:39:25 AM PDT by Scotswife
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To: Scotswife

"For what it's worth - I also think it should be illegal to sell products like Grand Theft Auto to children and teens." - Why don't you check - there is an age restriction on GTA.


182 posted on 04/02/2006 10:52:03 AM PDT by Panerai
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To: Scotswife

There's a really good free silent prayer on fhu.com that has helped free alot of people. It might help him. It's non-denominational in case he is turned off from religion.


183 posted on 04/02/2006 10:52:04 AM PDT by fabian
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To: Panerai
Morality in Media president Robert Peters...struggled in his 20s to kick a porn habit that started in grade school.

Mark Laaser...[who] frequently sought out pornography and engaged in extramarital sex for more than 20 years...now runs workshops, and consults with church congregations on the issue.

Another self-described former addict is Phil Burress, head of a Cincinnati-based conservative group called Citizens for Community Values.

Figures. Typical busybodies--projecting their own weaknesses onto the rest of society, as if everybody's as incompetent and undisciplined as they were.

184 posted on 04/02/2006 10:55:14 AM PDT by Sandy
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To: Scotswife; All

Since porn is not shameful, should continue to be legal and easily accessible, and defensible in every way, why don't all the porn supporters tell us whether they "consume" porn? After all, they shouldn't be ashamed of using a product which has so much to commend it.


185 posted on 04/02/2006 11:37:43 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: Sandy

See my post above.


186 posted on 04/02/2006 11:39:18 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: MarkL

See my post above.


187 posted on 04/02/2006 11:40:11 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: little jeremiah

I thought or 2 or 3 more. Many of these are grown sons of friends. Many were "introduced" by other teenagers.

The facile lie that inanimate objects have no power is easily defeated by this argument:

If advertising had no effect, why would the advertising industry spend billions of dollars changing peoples' opinions and affecting their choices? People aren't dull stones. Everyone is affected by what they see, hear, and read. That's why education is hotly debated - skulls full of mush are influenced by what is fed to them. And adults are not immune from being affected either. The argument that porn doesn't affect people is a blatant lie.


188 posted on 04/02/2006 11:43:50 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: little jeremiah
See my post above.

Which one?

189 posted on 04/02/2006 12:26:48 PM PDT by Sandy
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To: Sandy
Which one?

The one where he offered to describe the sexual practices he and his wife engage in, in graphic detail, in order to prove how unashamed of legal activities people here should be. Then he'll undoubtedly post his current bank balance, along with the amounts and payees of all the checks he's written and credit card transactions he's made in the last few months or so - you know, since it's all legal and defensible, I'm sure he's not ashamed of it or anything.

I guess after the blow-by-blow of his life, he wants to know about whether you've ever viewed pornography. I think he figures that since he's so footloose and fancy free about his personal life, you should be too. Or something.

190 posted on 04/02/2006 1:40:44 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow
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To: goldstategop
No one is forced to buy or look at porn.

No one can leave their house without being confronted by it anymore. Whether on billboards or in a shopping mall.

191 posted on 04/02/2006 1:50:30 PM PDT by TradicalRC (No longer to the right of the Pope...)
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To: Senator Bedfellow; Sandy

Since the pro-porn crowd state how harmless the porn industry is, why aren't people saying whether they "use" it or not?

One idiot compared porn to guns, and I announced to the world that I own guns and have a concealed carry permit. I'm not ashamed or afraid to state that, and it is consistent with the right to bear arms which is stated in the Constitution.

Now, since you fine fellows think that the Constitution also supports the right of porn freaks to "consume" porn, why are you afraid to say wether you use it or not? I'm not afraid to say that not only do I not "use" porn, I've never seen any. See how bold I am?

Personally, I have less than no interest in anyone else's sex life or lack thereof. I just like to see people being honest and standing up for their beliefs.


192 posted on 04/02/2006 2:15:54 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: little jeremiah
You've got a wife, right? It's legal for you to have relations with her, right? So let's hear all about how you both like to do it, in as much detail as you can. You're not ashamed of anything, are you?

Personally, I have less than no interest in anyone else's sex life or lack thereof.

LOL. All evidence to the contrary, of course.

193 posted on 04/02/2006 2:20:40 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow
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To: little jeremiah; narses

I believe that Robert Bork refers to this as "Slouching Toward Gomorrah." Believe it or not some people WANT our culture to be evil and destructive. Too bad Conservative religious folks can't secede from these enlightened rogues.


194 posted on 04/02/2006 2:22:57 PM PDT by TradicalRC (No longer to the right of the Pope...)
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To: MarkL; Scotswife
Just a note: Child porn is already a crime. Just thought you might like to know.

Actually, it would be more acurate to say that child porn is still a crime, used to be that other types of porn were criminal as well. Fair to say that criminalizing kiddie porn is also a form of censorship and all we really disagree on is where to draw the line.

195 posted on 04/02/2006 2:27:24 PM PDT by TradicalRC (No longer to the right of the Pope...)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

As I said, I have no interest in anyone's sex life. I was making the point that the pro-porn crowd is saying that porn is harmless, benign, legal, even beneficial, and no one should have any shame about it. So if it's so harmless and benign, why not say whether one uses it or not? And since one fool compared pornography to guns, I stated my position on personal firearms, and my gun ownership.

I guess you have a thick skull.

What I object to is the porn culture which pervades the atmosphere and infects in particular children and young people. It is not harmless and not benign and some of the reasons are state above by myself and others.


196 posted on 04/02/2006 2:36:02 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: little jeremiah
I was making the point that the pro-porn crowd is saying that porn is harmless, benign, legal, even beneficial, and no one should have any shame about it.

So are your relations with your wife. Although you're being awfully evasive, I guess I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. So out with it. Let's hear all the gory details - no one should have any shame about it, right?

197 posted on 04/02/2006 2:37:37 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow
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To: TradicalRC

Good point. That was a good book. Interesting article and discussion about good and evil here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1607812/posts?page=1

The fight against evil (PROFOUND & POWERFUL - MUST READ!)
RenewAmerica.us ^ | 4/2/2006 | Fred Hutchison


198 posted on 04/02/2006 2:38:12 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: Senator Bedfellow

You can't see the difference between personal marital relations and the promotion of pornography?

Or are you just playing games?

Hmm.

Can't debate any longer at the moment, gotta run. CAtch any replies later.


199 posted on 04/02/2006 2:40:14 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: little jeremiah
You can't see the difference between personal marital relations and the promotion of pornography?

Well, I know that your personal marital relations are "harmless, benign, legal, even beneficial" and so therefore "no one should have any shame about it."

200 posted on 04/02/2006 2:44:12 PM PDT by Senator Bedfellow
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