More Hints at Early Origin of Stars, Galaxies (Not an April Fool's)

Creation-Evolution Headlines ^ | 3/31/06 | Creation-Evolution Headlines Staff

[Alter Kaker]

These em waves have been traveling across the universe for billions of years (since beginning of the universe) and billions of light years.

The CMB is traveling in all directions simultaneously, so it diffuses pretty much equally across the entire universe (with important and measurable exceptions). It isn't coming from one point.

[dhs12345]

Sorry, know very little about the theories about the origins of the universe. Just trying to understand.

Comments...

Still, matter, albeit small, had to be moved across large distances at fairly fast speeds. Small particles are affected by special relativity just as much as large particles. Assuming that the laws of Physics as we know applied.

And 300,000 years is very small when compared to the distances and durations of the Universe.

[Deathmonger]

Welcome back, oscillating universe theory. Instruments coming online in the next 10 years will be able to see beyond the supposed Big Bang. What will they say when they see galaxies from before the Big Bang? This makes sense only if the universe does not collapse down to a point but in fact oscillates between maxima and minima over a long cycle. Some galaxies from the previous contraction are still with us. Thus, the universe may be much older than currently imagined.

So far the universe looks exactly the same no matter how far away you look, except that it gets red-shifted the farther you go due mainly to spacetime expansion effects. The oscillating universe with no Big Crunch may be consistent with the observations of spacetime expansion and stars/galaxies that appear to be older than the beginning of the expansion.

[dhs12345]

OK. Make sense. I understand now. Thanks.

[metmom]

Funny what those ignorant bronze age goat herders can come up with. Things like:

Psalm 8:8 refers to *fish... passing THROUGH the paths of the sea*. Different from going ON currents. Fish swim IN the water; this implies that the currents are IN the water, different from currents on the surface of the water.

How would they know about the circulating system of the atmosphere? Eccles 1:6,

Or the water cycle? Job36:27,28 and Eccles 1:8.

Or that everything was being held together or that everything even NEEDED to be held together? Col 1:17
Where would they have gotten that concept? Nothing in our experience would indicate that stuff needed to be held together but here we have discovered gravity and strong and weak molecular forces.

That things which are seen are made from things which are not visible Heb 11:3

That the earth is unsupported (suspended) in space Job 26:7

How would they know that the universe is wearing down Isa 51:6 and Ps 102:26

Or that the earth was formless and void Gen 1:2

Amazing things these goat herders *dreamed up*.

[wallcrawlr]

^{Revelation 4:11}Intelligent Design
Constantly searching for objectivity in the evolution debate...
See my profile for info

[metmom]

God is not trying to *trick* anyone with the appearance of age. It could simply be a matter of mere practicality. In order for the earth to be useful to man, it would need to be in that condition. Much as if I wanted to provide my house for company to use. I would have it built to start with, finished, and furnished. I would even go as far as stocking the pantry and perhaps leaving leftovers in the fridge so they could just reheat dinner. There could be all the signs of having been lived in and yet that would be untrue. There certainly would have been someone there to do all the work but it wasn't *lived* in even though it would have appeared that way. But it would have all been for the convenience of my guests out of courtesy not decietfulness.

Creationists are doing no such thing, calling God a liar.

[metmom]

So exactly what matter have scientists created out of nothing? I thought that was a little beyond our current technology.

[Alter Kaker]

God is not trying to *trick* anyone with the appearance of age. In order for the earth to be useful to man, it would need to be in that condition.

How does cosmic microwave background radiation make the earth useful to man?

[metmom]

If you say so. I don't know who you're calling "elitist," but I don't think there's anybody more arrogant than those who think that they can understand the universe and how it came to be from two chapters of Genesis alone.

Sure there is. Scientists who think they can understand the universe and how it came to be just by looking at it and running it in reverse.

[metmom]

So far the universe looks exactly the same no matter how far away you look, except that it gets red-shifted the farther you go due mainly to spacetime expansion effects.

Theoretically, though, wouldn't you be looking back in time the further away you look? If light travels at its set speed, the further away in space you look, the further back in time you go. How could stuff so far away still have the appearance of the same age as stuff nearby? If we are seeing the light from some billions of years ago that's just reaching the earth now, it should look like it did at the beginning.

[Doctor Stochastic]

Most likely they cannot subtract either.

[Deathmonger]

How could stuff so far away still have the appearance of the same age as stuff nearby?

It doesn't exactly, it's redshifted relative to stuff nearby, and we infer distance and age from redshift. But the problem for the Big Bang is that otherwise these structures are indistinguishable from ones with much lower redshifts, when they ought to look less well-developed (e.g. they have too many old stars).

If we are seeing the light from some billions of years ago that's just reaching the earth now, it should look like it did at the beginning.

The space in-between us and them has expanded during the journey, which has the effect of 'stretching' the light wavelength. This is one origin of redshift. "Redshift" and "structural maturity" are two different matters--keep them separated.

[Licensed-To-Carry]

i agree, if we all stared to spread away from the big bang at the same time, why would there be anything behind us to look at. Light and matter should be out just as far as us, there should be nothing else to look at. The center of the universe should be empty, blank, vacant. ??

[taxesareforever]

Again, how old is a freshly created chunk of matter?

About 10,000 years. Dictionary cre·ate (krç-ât') tr.v., -at·ed, -at·ing, -ates. To cause to exist; bring into being.

[bondserv]

And yet you claim to know the existence of god, his nature, and workings.

I know a Man in Judea was crucified, buried and rose again in 3 days. And that when I received the Good News that I was pardoned for my perverse behavior of: (a lot of drinking, a little drugging, a lot of fornicating, regularly lying, a little stealing, backbiting, cursing...) I became free to change.

Everyone that knew me thought I was a moral, ethical, conservative Roman Catholic young man. Girls parents wanted me to marry their daughters, bosses trusted me with their businesses, my parents let me drive their car whenever I wanted to.

I was the epitome of self-centeredness. Chasing knowledge as the god that would propel me ahead of those around me. Believing myself to be inherently superior to other races, even though I enjoyed a diversified group of friends.

Now I can clearly see how petty a person I was. Having been reborn spiritually, completely changed my perspective of reality. My lack of character was revealed to me like an open book. The more I studied the Word of God the more I realized I needed a lot of help. Before believing in Jesus Christ, my character growth was backwards. My behavior was becoming compoundingly worse.

And yet, I was able to deceive even those I let in close, because I was unable to be really close to anyone. Having reestablished fellowship with the Creator because of His sacrifice has opened a potential for intimacy that I see only in other believers. My wife and I continue to grow so much closer that we can't believe how close God has allowed us to be.

The Holiness and righteousness of God is imputed to us when we receive the forgiveness His sacrifice provides. We can experience a purity in our lives that comes only from a closeness with our perfect God.

[bondserv]

About 10,000 years. Dictionary cre·ate (krç-ât') tr.v., -at·ed, -at·ing, -ates. To cause to exist; bring into being.

The astronomers are having to face this fact because the evidence continues to reveal the truth. They are without excuse.

[RunningWolf]

Good point,

Probably more to the truth is they do not really know what light is, nor any of the other phenomena of physics.

So how how can the conclusions based upon that be anywhere close to the absolute/reality or truth? How can anyone with a far reaching mind even insist that? Well history shows that the great minds do not, it is only their adulator's/cultists that do that.

It could be we have only an approximate, one tiny property of 'light' and 'light' may have many other properties etc including 'velocity' that we don't even know about because we cannot detect them, let alone measure them yet.

I am not saying we must reject all of our theory. But instead /to make a metaphor/ 'take the map' of mans physics etc., with somewhat a grain of salt. Say as Columbus may have taken a map of the world after he went beyond uncharted waters.

Agree?

Wolf

[jennyp]

Goldman suggested later in the lecture one possible new conception of the universe that might emerge in the years ahead: that the universe might be viewed as “some kind of information structure.” Sound like intelligent design? Sound like instant creation?

Ooooh, he said "information" somewhere in his lecture! Intelligent Design MUST be true!

[Elsie]

Along these lines; I just received a new Sky & Telescope magazine, and on page 25 (May 2006) the title of the article is - Creator Calling Card? - where these scientists are looking in the background radiation for evidence of God!