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Immigration bill turned quiet voices into a roar
San Diego Union Tribune ^ | 04/02/2006 | Leslie Berestein

Posted on 04/02/2006 8:00:42 AM PDT by RS

SNIP

Amy Cervantes, 17, said she learned about the House bill at school and on television. On Friday, the Morse High School senior and two younger sisters joined other teens and a few adult chaperones in a downtown San Diego march that drew roughly 4,000 participants.

“It's that law,” she said of her reason for participating, though the House bill has not yet become law. “That 4437, where anyone who helps someone illegal is a criminal.”

(Excerpt) Read more at signonsandiego.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; illegals; immigrantlist
That last phrase is the key -

These kids all know their Dad, or Uncle Jose, or that cousin who stayed for a few weeks last summer are illegals.

This bill brings it home to them that THEY may be guilty of criminal actions.

Perhaps a short class should be taught on the current state of "aiding and abetting" laws ?

1 posted on 04/02/2006 8:00:44 AM PDT by RS
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I thought helping an illegal (anything) was illegal. Although I support the bill in congress now I can't help but think these actions are criminal acts today and will be in the future.


2 posted on 04/02/2006 8:13:30 AM PDT by VMSguy
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To: RS
Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant!


3 posted on 04/02/2006 8:19:34 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: RS
I am now at a loss as to what is the worst scenario for our country. Take over by the terrorist or take over my Mexico. Either is bad and it looks as if Mexico is in front for the take over. Will Fox be the next President?
4 posted on 04/02/2006 8:20:09 AM PDT by YOUGOTIT
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To: RS
That 4437, where anyone who helps someone illegal is a criminal.”

It's called aiding and abetting, puta!
5 posted on 04/02/2006 8:23:02 AM PDT by LoudRepublicangirl (loudrepublicangirl)
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To: RS
"Immigration bill turned quiet voices into a roar"

Well, speaking from the other side from Miss Cervantes---ever notice how quiet it gets just before a tornado?

6 posted on 04/02/2006 8:26:10 AM PDT by Tench_Coxe
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To: All

Calm Down.

The number 1 item in the President's proposal is Border Security. Almost all of the rest of BOTH the House and Senate bills can be tossed out because Border Security will take care of EVEN THOSE ALREADY HERE.

You see, many of those will self deport. They will have a parent die and attend the funeral. They will long to visit family and will go do so. Once they do, they can't get back in.

Frankly, the President's plan would be fine. It's all a matter of emphasis. Border Security is listed 1st, but it should also be talked about more than anything else. A strict guest worker plan will not encourage more influx if border security is good. I think most would accept some sort of guest worker plan, but let's arrange it to be on a schedule and that schedule would be . . . perhaps starting 3-4 years after Border Security has reduced the influx by 90% or some statistic like that.

Note that if the influx stops, the guest worker plan will have fewer and fewer participants as they endure their strict criminal punishment, pay their debt to society as former lawbreakers and become citizens.


7 posted on 04/02/2006 8:26:34 AM PDT by Owen
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To: VMSguy; LoudRepublicangirl

Helping an illegal is NOT illegal now.

Right now:

They can get welfare benefits. They can attend public schools. They can get in-state tuition at many state universities. The Supreme Court has even held that there MUST BE bilingual education. Even if an employer is caught knowingly employing illegals, there are only civil, not criminal penalties.


8 posted on 04/02/2006 8:27:16 AM PDT by oblomov (Join the FR Folding@Home Team (#36120) keyword: folding@home)
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To: blackie

I sent my check to the Minuteman yesterday. Everyone should support them.


9 posted on 04/02/2006 8:29:33 AM PDT by Raleighwood
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To: Owen

Do you really think the President Bush is serious about border enforcement? LOL. This is all lip service, meanwhile today many more thousands imgrated into the usa. Tomorrow many more thousands will imgrate, adding to the 20 to 25 million Azland supporters already here.


10 posted on 04/02/2006 8:32:06 AM PDT by jpsb
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To: RS
Amy Cervantes, 17, said she learned about the House bill at school and on television.
"It's that law," she said of her reason for participating, though the House bill has not yet become law.

It's that bill!

It's that law!

It's that bill that's not a law!

"That 4437, where anyone who helps someone illegal is a criminal."

 

11 posted on 04/02/2006 8:37:07 AM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: jpsb

>
Do you really think the President Bush is serious about border enforcement? LOL. This is all lip service, meanwhile today many more thousands imgrated into the usa. Tomorrow many more thousands will imgrate, adding to the 20 to 25 million Azland supporters already here.
>

It doesn't matter who you think is serious. If the money is allocated and spent, then your perspective requires an entire department to have no one in it willing to go to the press and say that they've been ordered to be paid and explicitly do nothing.

That's just not a credible scenario.


12 posted on 04/02/2006 9:20:28 AM PDT by Owen
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To: RS
“That 4437, where anyone who helps someone illegal is a criminal.”

IMHO: that is the straw man argument since that will never happen.

13 posted on 04/02/2006 9:34:20 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (In the Land of the Blind the one-eyed man is king.)
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To: Raleighwood
Roger that - Good man!

Protect our borders and coastlines from all foreign invaders!

Support our Minutemen Patriots!

Be Ever Vigilant!


14 posted on 04/02/2006 9:44:29 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: RS; VMSguy; LoudRepublicangirl; oblomov; DumpsterDiver; Mike Darancette
“That 4437, where anyone who helps someone illegal is a criminal.”

"4437" does not make it illegal to "help someone illegal". Section 205 of H.R. 4437 amends Section 277 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).

The INA already codified the crime and spelled out a penalty. H.R. 4437 amended the language of INA section 277, and changed the penalty a little.

Also, the crime is described as knowingly assisting an inadmissible alien to enter the USA. This is a very specific crime, and it is foolish to misrepresent the crime and/or the bill by making statements to the effect that 4437 makes it a felony to help an illegal immigrant. It is foolish because it is this sort of shrill overstatement that is used to foster opposition to newer/better border protection policies. The MSM promotes this sort of misinformation and apparently loves to mislead the public.

16 posted on 04/02/2006 10:26:42 AM PDT by delacoert (imperat animus corpori, et paretur statim: imperat animus sibi, et resistitur. -AUGUSTINI)
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To: delacoert
Should be renamed the Anti "Coyote" act and they should advertise the inhumane actions of those that trade in human misery.
17 posted on 04/02/2006 10:36:22 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (In the Land of the Blind the one-eyed man is king.)
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To: delacoert
The MSM promotes this sort of misinformation and apparently loves to mislead the public.

The Spanish-language media also do their best to inflame things. Targeting the yutes of America can lead to unsavory results. Teenagers are already natural drama queens/hysterics without having outside agitation thrown into the mix.

18 posted on 04/02/2006 10:37:34 AM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: oblomov

"They can get welfare benefits. They can attend public schools. They can get in-state tuition at many state universities. "

Uh ... they get around that by making sure you can't ASK if they are legally in the country.


19 posted on 04/02/2006 11:11:26 AM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: delacoert

Didn't find what you are refering to, as Sec 277 addresses crossing the border - Hard to say these kids assisted in that when many were not even born yet ...

BUT, I did find in 4437 this section - 274 (1) (c) -

"`(C) assists, encourages, directs, or induces a person to reside in or remain in the United States, or to attempt to reside in or remain in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such person is an alien who lacks lawful authority to reside in or remain in the United States;

Which appears to create the crime that these kids are rightly afraid of.


20 posted on 04/02/2006 11:27:27 AM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: RS
“The House bill passed in December, and it took a while for people to digest what they did,” said Cecilia Muñoz, vice president of National Council of La Raza in Washington, D.C.


snip


Angelica Salas of the Coalition for Humane Immigrant Rights of Los Angeles, which helped organize a massive march in Los Angeles last weekend


The National Council of La Raza urged students last week to channel their energy in other ways, such as e-mailing congressional representatives.

21 posted on 04/02/2006 11:37:15 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: RS

The link works fine for me. Here's the section (cut and paste from the link I gave).


22 posted on 04/02/2006 11:40:39 AM PDT by delacoert (imperat animus corpori, et paretur statim: imperat animus sibi, et resistitur. -AUGUSTINI)
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To: blackie

How are you doing Blackie?

Ed is a fellow member and Treasurer of the CA 55th Assembly District Republican Central Committee and a friend.

Here's how to help:

Friends,

After mass protests of pro-illegal immigration factions, we have decided to counter protest and involve the entire nation. Please forward this email and the attached letter to anyone that wants to make their voice heard by lawmakers.

Thank you,

-Edwin R Williams
SP Director, Minuteman Project
(714) 348- 2629




Dear Patriotic American,

Thank you for contacting the Minuteman Project and asking what you can do for your country. Our Phone lines are swamped, our mail boxes are full and we have stretched our resources to the limit. Most of you have asked, “what are we going to do, when will we do it and where will it happen?”. We will take to the streets in protest, we will march on Washington and we will make our voices heard. The uprising of the pro Illegal immigration marches were planed by Spanish languages radio networks for months, we have only a few weeks to respond.

We are organizing a rolling protest called “The Minuteman Caravan”. This will be a town to town, state to state convoy to the Capital. Some will only be able to ride with us for a few miles while others will take the road from Los Angelis to D.C. the entire way. We will stop at the Capital lawn, clogging the streets and forcing the lawmakers to hear our voice!

This is our last, best hope to save our jobs and our culture. In order to accomplish this monumental task, we need everyone to stand up and chip in. What can you do to help?

Organize a chapter: Gather others from your area together and start a chapter. The opposition uses myspace.com to gather support, so can you. When you have your team together, contact me at ed@minutemanproject.com and I will send you more information.

Donate to the cause: The board of Directors are not only working without pay, we have also committed our personal coffers to the cause. We need to raise a large sum of money immediately to accomplish our goals and keep up the fight. Please go to www.minutemanproject.com and click on our secure donation form. We need money, equipment, RV’s, stop locations and fundraisers now!

Volunteer your time: You can help raise money by organizing local fundraisers, take a watch on the border, donate food and equipment to the border watch, or volunteer your special skills. This will be a historic event you will be proud to have been a part of.

This is the time, we may never have another. Together we can close the border and end the debate.

Thank you,

Edwin R Williams

S. P. Director, The Minuteman Project

Ed@minutemanproject.com


23 posted on 04/02/2006 11:42:22 AM PDT by gc4nra ( this tag line protected by Kimber and the First Amendment (I voted for McClintock))
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To: jpsb

Owen's a GOP/Bush stooge. Pay no attention to him.


24 posted on 04/02/2006 11:43:43 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (None genuine without my signature)
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To: LoudRepublicangirl

Puta... LOL! Cabeza de pinga.


25 posted on 04/02/2006 11:44:57 AM PDT by johnny7 (ďNah, I ainít Jewish, I just donít dig on swine, thatís all.Ē)
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To: RS

It's already against the law to aid and abet illegals...even religious organizations. They just aren't enforced. I'm not stupid enough to believe any new laws would be either.


26 posted on 04/02/2006 11:53:55 AM PDT by abigailsmybaby ("This is the sort of English up with which I will not put." Winston Churchill)
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To: Owen

I see you support McCain/Kennedy.


27 posted on 04/02/2006 12:06:06 PM PDT by mthom
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To: RS
BUT, I did find in 4437 this section - 274 (1) (c) -

WHOA NELLY!!!!

In the INA, which is already the law of the land, this and other crimes are spelled out. You say you can't find the INA at the link I previously gave. Hopefully the following two links will work for you:

  1. INA: TITLE II -- IMMIGRATION
  2. INA: ACT 274 - BRINGING IN AND HARBORING CERTAIN ALIENS

What you should see when you go to the second link is an section in the INA with same number as the Section you attribute to H.R. 4437. And language in INA ACT 274 that is substantially similar to the language you quoted.

What this means is, the crime(s) "these kids are rightly afraid of" were already the law of the land BEFORE H.R. 4437.

There are four versions of H.R. 4437. The version I am looking at is the one that was referred to Senate Committee after being received from the House of Representatives. That version is the one I provided a link to in my previous post. (H.R. 4437). I do not see a Section 274 in this version of H.R. 4437. Please provide a link for the version you are viewing.

28 posted on 04/02/2006 12:14:16 PM PDT by delacoert (imperat animus corpori, et paretur statim: imperat animus sibi, et resistitur. -AUGUSTINI)
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To: delacoert

Very strange then that 4437 has 274(a)(1)

(A) which like the old 277 addresses illegal entry

... yet adds

(B) which adds entry at other then a designated port

(C) which adds "residing" to cover those that are not covered in (A) & (B)

(D) which adds "transports" to cover those that are not covered in (A) & (B) & (C)

(E) which adds "concealment" to cover those that are not covered in (A) & (B) & (C) & (D)

(F) which makes all of these a crime even on the high seas, in anticipation that the person just might be seeking illegal entry


ALL of these addtional ones were NOT covered by the existing law, and looking at simply 277 are NOT illegal.


29 posted on 04/02/2006 12:18:36 PM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: delacoert

OH OK - you were talking sec 277 earlier

anyway -

How do you get a valid Thomas link these days ?

( and why does Thomas suck now ? )

Looks like the only way to a permanent link is to link to a pdf version

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=109_cong_bills&docid=f:h4437rfs.txt.pdf


30 posted on 04/02/2006 12:31:11 PM PDT by RS ("I took the drugs because I liked them and I found excuses to take them, so I'm not weaseling.")
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To: RS
How do you get a valid Thomas link these days ?

I just find them in a google search and follow them. I guess they're not citable since they're "permanent" - sorry about that.

31 posted on 04/02/2006 12:47:14 PM PDT by delacoert (imperat animus corpori, et paretur statim: imperat animus sibi, et resistitur. -AUGUSTINI)
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To: delacoert

oops NOT "permanent"


32 posted on 04/02/2006 12:48:21 PM PDT by delacoert (imperat animus corpori, et paretur statim: imperat animus sibi, et resistitur. -AUGUSTINI)
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To: gc4nra
I'm doing great!

Thanks for info, I'll send to some email friends.

Be Ever Vigilant!


33 posted on 04/02/2006 12:56:40 PM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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