Posted on 04/03/2006 6:00:20 PM PDT by Number57
It's Saturday night, and as one group of 12-year-old girls prepares to head out for a night at an all-ages dance in Toronto's nightclub core, another group of preteens is busy fussing over their expensive gowns and shoes and wheedling their parents to arrange a limousine for their Grade 8 graduation.
In the week that has followed an altercation involving a 12-year-old girl stabbed on the streets of Toronto's Entertainment District at 2:30 a.m. last Saturday, there has been an outcry over parental abdication of responsibilities, calls for a strict children's curfew, and considerable hand-wringing about what kind of society allows its children to be out partying at all hours.
But despite all the tsk-tsk reactions fuelling radio call-in shows in the city this week, is it really all that surprising?
Grade-schoolers are increasingly doing things that once would have been the exclusive domain of teenagehood -- whether it's turning the Grade 8 grad into the prom, participating in promiscuous sexual behaviour at ever-younger ages, or grappling with anorexia before they even encounter puberty.
Just yesterday, in a case that hinged on whether sexual dirty talk between adult and child was predatory behaviour, an Edmonton man was acquitted on charges of luring a 12-year-old Ontario girl over the Internet. A few weeks ago, a wild party involving 200 or so mostly Grade 8 students trashed a house in Delta, B.C., causing about $70,000 damage in an unprecedented, large-scale home-wrecking.
(Excerpt) Read more at canada.com ...
My 11 year old still acts like a kid. The only thing he's really given up this year is legos. Now, he's really into different computer games, and they are getting more sophisticated. In one of them, he has a Roman army. He's going on the internet to research about Rome.
The only thing scary is that he has definitely started puberty. He has hair above his mouth, and his voice is getting deeper. We don't want him to have to start shaving, but he may need to.
He doesn't get to go places without an adult around. He can go over to friends' houses when their parents are around.
He's a good kid and doesn't even ask to do anything pushing the limits, except for staying up late at home.
That was a very good article and I'm passing it on to my daughters. My oldest grandchild, a boy, is now almost 13, and I'm already seeing some of this behavior from kids at his school. Something has to change - and soon.
Same here, but we described "hair above the mouth" as the 'hair on his head'.
Your son sounds like he's a good kid with a great mom. My grandson is too, but I've been through this with 4 kids already. Be vigilant.
My own son is definitely a kid. He is more interested in Legos, Transformers, watching History channel shows on Vikings, and wanting to do medeival projects. He has always been one of those "just a kid" types. So often I see a lot of kids that have that stand-offish and instense attitude. They are more interested in how cool they look, rather than just having fun.
My 11 year old still acts like a kid
So does mine, she is innocent and having fun. Has no interest in dressing up or makeup at all. She loves her Nintendo DX and playing softball and hanging in the yard.
Frightening.
My 13 year old daughter refuses to wear clothes that show her bellybutton or fit like a second skin, thankfully. And no makeup, yet. But a college girl I know working at a clothing store in Dallas says she can't beleive the revealing clothes 11 & 12 year olds buy with the full encouragement of their mothers.
So I read the article. Then I remembered that the job of the media, in general, is to highlight the extremes. I'm sure that somewhere in Canada you'll be able to find a few thousand parents allowing their preteen daughters to dress like tarts, hire limos for graduation, and allow their kids to look like hookers and drug addicts. I'm also sure that you'll find millions of parents with the same kind of normal teens and preteens that are mentioned in the responses here at freerepublic. I can also speak somewhat from experience, since I teach high school. The startling observation that I can see among my own high school kids is how little things have changed in terms of speech patterns, body language, appearance (not fashion), and the traditional teen focus on friends and fads. I still see shy boys who are coy about holding hands, the geeky freshman turning into the studly senior, the king and the queen of the prom, the minority of experienced girls and the majority who are in awe of them. This is the same high school I experienced in 1972. When I see what I see with my own eyes, and then I read an article in a newspaper saying the opposite - in the words of Marx (Groucho, not Karl): "What are you going to believe? Me or your own eyes?"
My son isn't the one I'm worried about. It's one of my 9 year old daughters!!!!!
Ironically, when my twin daughters were in their early teens, I tried to find some fun fashion magazine to subscribe to for them. I can't remember for sure which one I got (TEEN magazine, possibly?) I got so mad at the magazine that I actually started a project. I split the "acceptable" part from the "unacceptable" part. My intention was to send both parts back to them in protest. Unfortunately, I had my hands full with my daughters and never completed the project. It would be interesting for someone to do that now.
My son is into playing his Nintendo DS and Laser Tag.
I also make it a point of knowing his friend's moms, and I encourage friendships with boys from nice families.
Can you believe what clothes mothers will let their young daughters wear?
I'm very happy that my 9 year old daughters do not like all the teeny bopper pop stars.
The only one they like is Amanda Bynes, and she's not a pop star. My girls like her because they think she's funny.
I have twin daughters also! One of them has a pretty good head on her shoulders.
The other one already has a boyfriend. Thank goodness, he is from a nice Christian family, and his mom and I are friends.
I did the same. But suddenly, all the moms entered the workforce and there were none of them left to touch base with.
ADMIN: please delete my last two posts. Sorry. Hit the left mouse button a few too many times ;)
I have a real hang up on the clothes that are out there for little girls. I have an 8 yr.old daughter who doesn't like the belly showings, but try to find a shirt that actually covers it! And try to find jeans that don't show their cracks when they bend over. The fashion industry is trying to turn these little innocent girls into sex-machines as soon as they pass size 6x!
>>>...is it really all that surprising?<<<
Not with the immorality of Hollywood dominating the airways.
This is not the first instance of a Hollywood in history. The first Hollywood corrupted Sodom and Gomorrah.
After 5 teenagers I always think I've heard it all. But 12 yr olds at nightclubs is enough. I dont care what the other kids are doing when my 6 yr old is 12 I know where she will be, right at home where she belongs. I dont favor sleepovers and I guess there will be plenty of fights along the way but I have learned to say no very easily. I never thought I would be like my mother but I guess I am . lol
The jeans thing is awful. One of my daughters is a little heavy. Besides being slutty, they don't make clothes to fit her. Everything is skin tight and low (or high) cut.
My girls don't like wearing 2 piece bathing suits, and it's hard to find a cute 1 piece one.
Have you noticed, even the nice dresses are kind of slutty looking.
We always end up finding nice clothes, but it's always a challenge. Our favorite store is "A Children's Place".
I don't mind sleepovers if I know the family. My daughters haven't done any, but they are twins and I don't think anyone wants to invite 2 girls over.
My son has done lots of sleepovers. He loves it because he gets away from all the girl stuff. He especially loves going over to one of his friend where there are 3 boys. They also have a creek by their home that is great for exploring. They can explore and get dirty, and do all that fun boy stuff.
I'm actually going to The Children's Place tomorrow! Their clothes are good and priced nicely too.
Mine are 30 years old now. No matter what happens, good parenting matters and the lessons they learn from you are permanent. I had problems for awhile, but mine came back and are simply terrific people. I just wish they didn't have to work. What I see is husbands who have been brainwashed by feminist moms in both cases. Neither of them are willing to put in 110% so my daughters can stay home with their kids.
I worry about that. I keep on trying to teach my daughters that it's important to stay home with kids when they are little.
I need to make sure my son knows that also.
Right??
I also have five kids. Thought I heard it all.
My ex & I got into an argument about my 11-year old girl having a cell-phone. We didn't let my son have one until he was 14... I didn't like that shit. So I don't think letting her have one at 11 is fair. OR LOGICAL.
We at one point found neutral ground - a cell phone without digits. A phone that she could NOT DIAL OUT with... but her mom & I could call her. Basically a phone with four buttons.
I don't think kids should have cell phones. Sorry.
Don't forget the cancer factor.
I think it is wise to provide a child with a cell phone when they are allowed to go somewhere unsupervised, even to the corner store...because of emergencies, such as a sexual predator approaching them.
I think it is wise to accompany a child to the corner store. Not trust a cell phone.
I see 8 yr olds with cellies. I dont approve, I know where my child is so she doesn't need one . I had my last child when I was 41 and this is the first child my husband has. He is very strict, which is why my boys all did so well. My 2 oldest put me thru hell with drugs for awhile until I got married again. The other 3 boys were pretty good but they had a man in their life that taught them respect and made rules for them. If you saw my husband you would never ever think he would be so hard as a dad. When I was a single parent it was easier to say yes then fight.So I gave in when I shouldn't have. Once I learned to say no and stick to it my children all realized no meant no. I dont care what other kids are going to be doing we have an agreement of what we want for our child and how we plan to achive it. I dont do the sleepovers because I know all too well how my oldest daughter used to sneak out with her friends. I know my youngest wont like hearing no about them but too bad. I will be glad to pick her up at 10 or 11 and she can come home and sleep in her own bed. Maybe because shes the youngest I feel this way or maybe because we treasure her so much that we want her safe at home. I dont know. But the whole family is in agreement about it. Her 19 yr old brother is the first to tell her no too. I just feel todays children are pushed too fast to be mini adults.I want my baby to be a child for as long as she can be.
Yep... I agree, completely
I am having the same problem.Who sells clothes that are not so revealing? I hate seeing the girls turned into mini women. I dont go for the hair steaking either. I was shocked to see makeup on some of my friends 8 yr olds. When I have asked why they all shrug and say all the girls are wearing it. Well as my mom would have said would you jump off a bridge because all the other kids are? I wont say no to some tasteful makeup at 12 or 13. You cant ban everything. I do know that you have to give a little bit or else you create more problems. Having a sense of humor sure helps too.
I can just see myself at ten years old telling Dad the USN Senior Chief I was staying out till midnight. You would've needed DNA testing to find what was left.
While we on the subject of children....I dont understand why so many parents feel they have to be friends or best friends with their children. I tried it with the 26 yr old daughter when she was a teen. It didnt work at all. I finally told her I dont want to be a "friend" I am your mother. We both got along alot better after we stopped that and now at 26 we are friends and mother/daughter. We went thru hell and back when she was an addict but once we got our relationship together we did very well. I dont feel the need to be my children's friend but I love being their mother.
Most (3 OUT OF 5) of my kids disagree with me. But then, most (3 out of 5) of my kids are idiots.
And most are under 25 years old.
rofl I used to tell mine dont be a moron. Or a dimwit . The excuses and answers they had for stupid things used to baffle me, I swear I could write a book on my children. Now I laugh when the 2 oldest ones call me and complain about their babies. Being a grandma is great I get to spoil them and send them home. I have been so lucky in my life...all of my children are healthy and doing well. I never thought they would be as good as they are now. And each day with the 6 yr old is a blessing. We have so much fun and I dont sweat the little stuff like I did with the older ones. I always have time for a tea party or a cuddle, who cares if the house is messy. I can always do the cleaning later. lol
Yeah y'know... I dread becoming a grampa, yet nothing could make me happier. Weird.
Oh crap... you have grandkids! I will consult you soon for advice... lol
You're right. The insidious part of a media story like this is the parent who reads it and thinks that everyone else is doing it, so he has to allow his teenager to be a slut wannabe. A lot of us - including myself, both at home and in the classroom - not only uphold traditional values, but proclaim them. I'm careful to back up what I say with research and accepted wisdom in case I ever get called on the carpet, but so far no one has done anything but nod in agreement about statements such as "the best family for a child has a fulltime mother and fulltime father" or "the quickest route to poverty for a young woman is having a child outside marriage without the support of the father."
Articles like this one undermine those values by making it appear as if everyone is allowing decadence to become the norm. Even those students in my class with wildly libertine parents and surroundings pine away for stability, modesty, and family.
My solution to an article like this: knock them down, point by point, starting with the understanding that the presentation is skewed.
We got my 11 year old a cell phone this year. He started middle school, and it's hard to get a hold of him at school to tell him things like I'm running a few minutes late. They also have a homework center after school. A couple of times I've needed him to go to it, and it is so convenient to just call his cell phone.
He's great with it. We got him one with an MP3 player, and he likes that the most. He has a few other friends that he calls because they have the same service (Verizon), and it's free to talk to them.
Occasionally, he'll go for walks with my daughters in the neighborhood, and they take the cell phone.
It's also nice at the elementary school events (festivals, science night). The middles school boys typically hang out away from the younger kids. When we're ready to leave, I just call him on the phone. I don't have to search around for him.
What's funny about my kids is that they have never questioned that they don't get to watch movies that their friends get to watch, or do other things their friends get to do.
It did help that we took my son to see the first Lord of the Rings movie. I didn't realize it was PG-13, and it was going to be so violent and scary. My son was 7. He sat in my lap the whole time burying his head. He told me he never wanted to go see a PG-13 movie again. It's only been this past year, that he'll watch them: (Star Wars & Lord of the Rings). When I told him that he couldn't watch King Kong because I thought it was too violent, he trusted my opinion.
My son also hates hearing kids cuss, and he really doesn't want his little sisters to hear the language. So he never questions watching a movie if I say the language is too bad.
Those are the easy areas. Now, if we didn't have to work on sibling rivalry, playing too many electronic games, finishing homework on time, and doing chores then my kids would be perfect.
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