Posted on 04/04/2006 9:58:28 AM PDT by stainlessbanner
My husband jokes that I should have been an electrician. In this age of outsourcing and job insecurity, the trades seem to us to be the best professions of the future. To be sure, most aren't glamorous and are often physically demanding. But a number seem to have financial security and stability, and their job portability doesn't hurt, either. Many of us white-collar employees don't get to choose where we will live; we must go wherever our employer requires us. Many folks in the trades can command a good income, choose their own hours, and put down roots in a community and stay as long as they choose. I wish I had this luxury.
Both my husband and I are Ph.D. chemists. I'd once wanted to be an opera singer. I come from a long line of writers and musicians, but I had the (mis)fortune of being good at science. In college, the thinking was that the sciences (and an advanced degree) would guarantee me some sense of employment security. Pursuing opera would subject me to the unemployment line, I thought, at least until my career took off. I could sing on the side, but by making medicines that make people well, I could make a meaningful difference in the world.
I could never have predicted the difficulties that I'd face. I followed my husband from Virginia (where we went to graduate school) to Maine, where my husband found a job, and then to Oregon, where we live now. In Maine, I was out of work for almost a year. I went to four temp agencies before I found one that would place me. I was turned away from administrative-level positions because I didn't have "admin experience." I worked retail and part-time jobs. Eventually, I learned to leave my Ph.D. off my resume, which helped me land my first serious job. It didn't pay well, but at least it was serious.
When we moved to Oregon, where my husband had accepted another job, and I found myself interviewing again. I worked for a biotech company, handling their patents and licenses, but this company didn't care about my expensive chemistry degree. I now work at an advertising agency where I (Shhh!) barely earn above minimum wage. The agency ran an ad for the assistant position I now hold and received 60 applications the next day.
It just doesn't seem right. I was valedictorian of my high-school class of 600, summa cum laude from my university, and graduated with distinction from graduate school. And none of this seems to have made the least bit of difference in helping me to build a career. At age 30, I feel grateful to have a job at all, because there are few in my part of Oregon.
My situation is hardly unique. My husband and I know plenty of people with advanced degrees (Ph.D., MS, J.D., and MBA) who have had this problem. In many cases, it's the "two-body problem," where both spouses hold advanced degrees. For some, it's because they choose to live in smaller cities, where opportunity is limited. But often it seems as if the job market isn't able to absorb all the advanced-degree holders at the pace colleges and universities are churning them out. Where are all these people going to work?
I am planning to go back to school this fall. Another doctorate. I have decided to make use of my Ph.D. in medicinal chemistry and become a pharmacist. I still dream of being able to make my own destiny, to carve my own path. A person of some intelligence who worked hard and had the right attitude used to be able to do that. Right now, my Ph.D. and $3.65 gets me a Cinnamon Dolce Latte at Starbucks, and not much more.
My dad often used to say, "Life does not reward us for efforts expended." I have learned the hard way that there are no guarantees in life, and that you can have all the determination in the world, and sometimes the opportunities just aren't there.
In this new world order, where jobs of every stripe are outsourced, and job security or opportunity can be a scarce commodity, one could do a lot worse than to be a electrician.
maybe you can read this, and then tell me I'm crazy again.
I know former co-workers of mine (not PhDs) - working at Lowes. One guy went into homebuilding.
and the free traders come on and say "oh, just retrain". sure, retrain a tech PhD to be a roofer or a plumber.
Any job where you have to use your hands and get dirty someone will always want to pay you to do it instead of them.
Well, it does...if you expend your effort in a direction for which there is demand. A PhD in medicinal chemistry sounds like a fairly narrow specialization which leaves one at the whim of market forces. An PhD (or even an MS) in computer science or mathematics and a few years of developing derivative software algorithms for an investment firm in New York would have paid off much better, for someone with her brainpower.
Do something you enjoy, and the pay does not matter...
Trying to "keep up with the Jones" does folks in...
It doesn't pay much, but at least she'll be able to buy her Cinnamon Dolce Latte at Starbucks with her own money.
If my brother can get into construction work as fast as he did, surely a PhD can do it.
I hold an M.S. in Electrical Engineering and have a good job, but to have it severely limits where I can live, unless I want a long commute. And then there are downsizings out of the blue to be concerned about. There are times I wish I had been an electrician, or a pharmacist, or a CPA, something that I can do and live where I want.
I doubt that I will recommend this career to my children.
(Before I get flamed by Captain Obvious, let me stipulate that yes, these were my decisions. Nobody forced me to do them. I'm the idiot that signed up for the trip. That having been said, I might do it differently if I had it to do over again. )
What's wrong with being a roofer or a plumber? There's apparently a much greater demand for their services than there are for certain PhD's.
My son has a PhD and is a Director of Technology, BUT he is also a carpenter and a mason.
The more advanced your knowledge, obviously there are fewer places to employ it. It sounds like this lady is letting her husband pick his market, and if it's different than medicinal chemistry, she has been limited even more. They need to work as a team to figure out what cities can employ both of their degrees if they want to use them.
there is nothing wrong with those jobs.
but you don't tell someone who has gone to college for 8 years to get a PhD - to retrain to be a plumber mid-life, because the government allowed Indian H1Bs into the US to scoop up the jobs.
Okay. You're crazy again (still?).
PHD = Piled Higher (and) Deeper.
In a more serious vein, this woman and her husband are over-educated for the average corporate job as a chemist. Most PHDs obtain their higher degree in the expectation that they will become college professors. As a pharmacist, the woman will be employable almost anywhere, and no longer be limited by her husband's job locale. I have a BS in Engineering and have been fully employed or worse (60 to 70 hours a week for the last 15 years) since graduating from college.
And based on the incompetency of some of the tradesmen I have encountered, there is plenty of room for the skilled blue-collar worker to succeed. Here on Kauai, electricians make $50 per hour and carpenters $35 per hour.
Same story for me. I did well in HS, finished 3rd in my class. When I told my teachers I was going to tech school, they had a fit. I now work as an electronic tech, can afford to have my wife stay home and mother the kids, and make a decent coin. I did go back to school on my company's dime and got my 4 year degree in Economics. Nice to have, but it hasn't really advanced me in the world.
Very few of the people I know that have college degrees actually work in the field they majored in (myself included). Entrepreneurship is the key to financial and mobility freedom.
I am planning to go back to school this fall. Another doctorate.
Question: If the first PH.D. is not working out for you, is it really wise to attempt a second?
Also, if it is really that difficult to find a well paying job, should one spend $3.60 on something that can be made at home for 10 cents?
1) Nobody's stopping her from becoming an electrician.
2) What does she expect, living in Oregon?
3) Having a Ph.D. in a research field won't do much good if you aren't a whiz at research.
Credentials do not guarantee a good job. Work ethic and the desire to be successful does in my opinion. The but I am above those people and should make more crowd may have not put the effort into their job that the seemingly lower blue collar worker did.
I believe that college can waste someones time and money if they are not focused on a worthwhile practical goal.
There is an education industry in this country that feeds itself. It is way too expensive, way too much nonsense taught having nothing to do with what someone needs to know for their career, and I dont even have to explain the political bias we all know.
I've been through similar; my whole life growing up everyone said go into science and you'll have a wonderful career... but the truth is that the US employment base is not focused on technology development or science for profit, it is focused on services... There aren't enough careers for all these scientists, the best bet is to look for the number one employers-- the federal government or academia... for those who detest socialism in all it's forms, this makes for tough choices. She could try to start her own business, but since her education didn't prepare her for that it may not be as easy as it sounds. I do wish our education system counselled students on the reality, rather than what they think is best for society. My best friend (PhD ten years, over a hundred scientific publications in molecular biology, brilliant man and EXTREMEMLY hard working) just turned forty two and has never made over $38,000 a year... reminds me of Germany before the war... the train conductors and factory workers made 4 to 5 times as much as PhD's, which led to a new kind of socialism for the educated class; the "betters" to oversee the "workers"-- you and I know it as National Socialism... my point being a disaffected professional class and/or middle class historically has led to ruinous forms of government.
On this one you're wrong. There is a large demand for Pharmacists and it's expected to get worse.
The key statement (IMO) in the article is:
" But often it seems as if the job market isn't able to absorb all the advanced-degree holders at the pace colleges and universities are churning them out"
The fact is that the US is cranking out way too many PhDs. The demand's just not there. A few departments know this and take students every other year, but most just rake in the $$ from the state/fed govt and save a TON of money getting teachers on the cheap.
You'd like this one A.Pole.
If nobody wants to pay you to do what you're trained for, you should probably look into doing something else.
Bingo! Diversification.
I have a degree in Medieval History and am academically qualified for only one possible career in the United States - teaching Medieval History.
But I retrained myself on my own for the real job market and I'm doing quite well.
This woman's whining is pathetic. If you have a working brain you can get a good job in the US. Unless you're lazy.
An overspecialized education is a guarantee of perpetual employment woes. Her problem is that she probably does not want to go to work for a petrochem co or a defense contractor where her chemistry degree would have wider application. I have worked with guys with a Phd in nuclear physics who had specialized in weapons making, but decided that there was more of a future in power plants. The same with guys who had graduate degrees in Chemical Engineering working in the power industry.
Either that or a matter of him not knowing what he wanted to be when he grew up. :)
Your has a lot of talent, what gets me is if someone cannot secure and hold a job as a chemist what makes them think they can be a plumber, carpenter or a mason?
"Holy smoke, where did all those roofers come from?"
We are discussing what she should have done in the first place, not what she should do now. If you can put up with living in New York or London for a while, the demand for big-brained people is considerable: Quantitative Analytics jobs
Yes, my son is fortunate to be talented in many areas, but I understand what you're saying. There needs to be a much higher regard for those careers without which this country would fall apart.
And there you go. I'm a freelance softare engineer, successfully and gainfully self-employed, working on custom software projects for a large corporation out of the comfort of my own home.
And all the "creds" I have are a high school diploma. With a little bit of talent, some luck, lots of self-training and a larger amount of personal initiative, there is plenty of opportunity out there.
I gather you don't believe in punctuation. Your comment was a bit difficult to follow -- but I got it -- after two or three reads.
Good, you get an A for effort.
This really makes me wonder about this person's decision to get a PhD, which shouldn't be a degree you just blindly pursue. With such an advanced degree in chemistry, you'd better be in parts of the country that value it--pharmaceuticals on the East Coast, the defense industry, West Coast R&D, etc.
There are places in this country where her degree is valued, but she can't just show up in Anytown, USA, wave her sheepskin, and expect to be hired.
Even still, I would expect that with a little resourcefulness, she could live just about anywhere, and write, or consult with other companies and projects.
Good grief, how do you make that one fit into those little boxes on the rebate form?
While the software may be developed there, the specifications and requirements for advanced software can be written here, by folks just like this woman.
You are crazy again. Apparently, there aren't many opportunities for a Ph.D. in medicinal chemistry in the portion of Oregon where this woman lives. Heck, I wonder what the opportunities for a Ph.D. in medicinal chemistry are in Chicago. I do know that increasing tariffs on imports isn't the answer.
Secondly she seems to have the attitude that if you have a degree, then you are entitled to a job. The degree simply states that you have met the minimum requirments for a degree at a university. It says nothing about your work ethic or your ability to hold a job or to follow orders in a real world job. All it says is that you are at a certain level of education in that field, a level that many people who go into that field right out of high school are more proficient at after working as lower level technicians in the field.
Typically, she is blaming everyone else for her inability to find a job. Well there are plenty of jobs out there. Not likely in rural Oregon, but if she's willing to work in a large city there are going to be a lot of opportunities. She does not seem willing to start at the bottom or to leave her precious environment. Hence she is unemployable.
I used to have a job as a Janitor at a high school in a very desireable and liberal university town. I was the only janitor in that school (other than the head custodian) who did not have an advanced degree from a university. Everyone except the head custodian was a college graduate. The problem was that being in beautiful and desireable university town, there were more degrees than jobs. Anyone who wanted to use their degree to earn a living had to leave. Eventually we all did -- except the head custodian who was there because it was the best job he could get with his qualifications.
I had a guy in my reserve unit who was a vocational school machinist in Virginia back in the 90's. He told me that they were closing vo-tech machine shops and that the "educators" were sending him all the druggies and other assorted criminals since they obviously weren't college material.
He had a real problem with the ed-specs for being completely unable to see the value of craft and trade. I'm wondering if we need ed-specs.
These guys don't make good machinists and you don't want them operating a million dollar mill working on a $50k piece of metal. At the time entry level was making $15-17 an hour.
Here in PA they are playing radio advertisements for the local community college saying that 90% of all job openings only require a two year degree or certificate.
I'm planning on sending my son. Tuition is only about $5k a year.
Hey wait, I thought we weren't turning out ENOUGH science and tech graduates?
Science and high tech are todays buggy whip industries.
"I have a BS in Engineering and have been fully employed or worse..."
I was in Kauai on my honeymoon and loved it, but as an engineer, I was wondering where the heck we would work if we lived on the island. I saw a sugar factory and that was about it.
This is the key salient point for all those disaffected advanced degree holders on this thread. Someone else mentioned that the only safe bets were government and big business.
Now, combine education and government, and what do you get? Subsidized student loans and the Univ of Phoenix going like gang-busters.
Get a clue - if you want to go into business, follow the money. In this case, get into the education business. To paraphrase Patton: "Don't be the poor sap who wasted their time & money acquiring an advanced degree with no marketable skills; Help the other suckers be the poor saps who waste their time & money acquiring advanced degrees with mo marketable skills".
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