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Posted on 04/05/2006 10:42:14 AM PDT by davidosborne
Leon County commissioners took a decisive step Tuesday toward allowing voters to decide whether the county and city should have a merged law-enforcement agency under an elected sheriff.
The county commissioners voted to send Tallahassee commissioners ballot language for a proposed referendum, but that doesn't mean voters will have the chance to decide the issue of merging the Sheriff's Office and the Police Department. City commissioners - who so far have expressed no desire to merge the agencies - would have to agree to a dual referendum inside and outside city limits. Another alternative, which some consider unlikely, would be for the county to ask the Legislature for a special act authorizing a countywide vote on a merger.
(Excerpt) Read more at tdo.com ...
Please contact the Tallahassee City Commissioners and ask them to LET US VOTE !!
http://www.talgov.com/gov/commission.cfm
City Hall
300 South Adams Street
Tallahassee, FL 32301
850-891-0000
P.S. To my fellow freepers, I know this is a "local" issue but we can sure use your help.. the strongest "group" we are up against is the Police Union http://www.flpba.org Florida Police Benevolent Association PBA)... I don't generally like to oppose my fellow law enforcement officers, however IMHO, they are just wrong on this issue.....
I appreciate any help and/or comments on this issue...
Passing it on.. Request for assistance... Thanks..
Passing it on.. Request for assistance... Thanks..
BTTT
BTTT
"City commissioners - who so far have expressed no desire to merge the agencies ....."
And as long as your city commissioners *earn* $34,000 a year in that *grueling* job they will continue to stall efforts.
Frankly, I don't like either one. The elected sherrif is a political football, popular as long as he doesn't arrest too many people. The unionized police are no longer public servants. They don't have to be. They have their contracts.
The Sheriff is a constitutional officer who assigned duties and limitations by statute. He is the supreme law enforcement officer within a speciific territorial jurisdiction.
You are correct.. however the reality in this situation is the continued annexing of "unincorporated" areas into the "city limits"... while I am not opposed to anexation it does present the problem of who provides law enforcement services to the city... the Police Department or the Sheriff... or in out case BOTH.. Our Sheriff has made it very clear that residents INSIDE city limits may request law enforcement services from their ELECTED head of Law Enforcement...
yes, but what happens when the city Police Chief "asks" the Sheriff to stay out of the city? The Sheriff simply reminds the Police Chief that "YOUR CITY is in MY COUNTY".....etc...etc.
So what do you suggest?
Annexation in Florida is an entirely different area of law. Generally, annexation is tested by objectors in court based upon the reasonableness of the proposed act. Example, some cities in the past have tried to annex only along a busy street but not the areas behind, yet physically adjancent, to the property fronting the road. The reason? To benefit from the enhanced tax base of the businesses but not having to face the requirement to provide city services to the other areas (fire, police, water, drainage, etc). It's called ''strip annexation'' and the courts disallow it.
Someone is certain to test in court the act you complain of. In the end, it's a matter for the court system to resolve pursuant to statutory application and interpretation. Because, after all, and as much as folks who don't understand the purpose of the judicial system hate courts making interpretive decisions, that's what courts are supposed to do.
Maybe, if I moved out of the blue state, it would be clear.
Tallahassee city limits has continued to expand at a rapid pace to the point where the City Police Department has grown to point that we have ended up with TWO "comepteing" Law Enforcement Agencies, in other words TWO traffic units, TWO SWAT teams, TWO Dispatch Centers etc.. etc... Our Sheriff continues to serve the people of Leon County whether they live INSIDE or OUTSIDE of City Limits.. Citizens INSIDE the CITY who wish to recieve service from Sheriff's Office simply dial (850) 922-3300 instead of 911....
to futher complicate the situation the CITY dispatches for the POLICE DEPARTMENT and FIRE DEPARTMENT, and the COUNTY dispatches for the SHERIFF and EMS... which is a whole other issue, that will be resolved under consolidation.. the question is should the VOTERS have choice whether they want an ELECTED Sheriff or an APPOINTED Police Chief.... and I say YES
OK
Do you have any opinion on this issue as you now understand it..
Don't forget the Animal Badge Wearing/Emergency Vehicle driving, Weapon Carrying Law Officers.
ah, yes, I knew I was forgetting something, thanks.
And with no police training.
OH, and here is another one.
County Constables. They have police powers, carry a gun, have a badge and uniform and all it takes is for your city council to appoint you. Then you hook up with someone in the county. It's all kept a secret. Many do security work for a fee and work for the Special Civil Part of the Court System and do Wage Executions, Garnishments and Evictions.
And collect the jack pot pension funds.
Port Authority cops have been known to VIOLATE FEDERAL LAW and confiscate legally checked firearms at JFK, LGA, and EWR.
and don't forget the private police force for politicians, which probably helped Anthony Imperiale keep the gang bangers out of the Italian section of Newark:
DETECTIVE STORY OVER? CRITICS SEE POTENTIAL DANGER IN 126-YEAR-OLD POLICE GROUP.
Since 1871, a little-known group of 25 men - a "roving band of police officers," as critics call them - have enjoyed all the power of a local cop in New Jersey, but none of the accountability. They have badges. They designed their own uniforms, complete with blue and gold shoulder patches. They have handcuffs, police scanners, and more. Some have red emergency lights for their cars, even though it's against the law. And they carry guns - most without a permit - and enjoy the power to conduct investigations and make arrests.
On Tuesday, a state investigating agency called for the repeal of an antiquated law that for more than 126 years has given police powers to members of an unusual group called the New Jersey Detective Agency - 11 of whom live in Bergen County, two in Passaic, and two in Morris. In a scathing report, the State Commission of Investigation called the group "a tragedy waiting to happen" and its members "wannabe cops."
"While the NJDA long ago may have served a valid function to augment law enforcement in New Jersey, it fulfills no legitimate purpose today," the report said. "On the contrary, the Agency's existence poses a distinct danger to the community." A 36-page report by the SCI said members of the Detective Agency mostly make money working as private detectives - escorting corporate executives, searching for missing persons, tracing birth parents, serving subpoenas for attorneys, investigating matrimonial cases, and conducting criminal and civil investigations for attorneys and private parties. Although that work is harmless enough, the SCI said 20 of the men carry guns without permits, and 200 weapons are registered to the 24 current members. Many have no formal training in weapons or police work.
Although they almost never make arrests, the 1871 law gives them that right, as well as all other powers of a police officer. Many members say they routinely stop to back up police on motor vehicle stops. Their police powers distinguish them from ordinary private investigators and make their membership an entitlement to higher earnings. Governor Whitman said she had never heard of the group and "would be inclined" to disband it. Her attorney general, Peter Verniero, agreed, as did several other top law enforcement officials.
"I see no purpose for that particular organization," Whitman said. "I think it has outlived its usefulness." Among the gun-toting ranks of the NJDA are a former assemblyman and senator from Newark, Anthony Imperiale, who gained notoriety as a white vigilante leader in the 1967 riots in Newark.
"If anybody is outmoded it's the SCI," said Imperiale, 66, who was commissioned in 1975 and said he had served as the agency's president for 10 years. "Why do you want to pick on 25 people dedicated to serving the state, serving as police officers, bothering nobody?" The bizarre, completely autonomous NJDA has its origins at a time before most New Jersey towns had formed municipal police departments. The Legislature and the governor at the time decided to allow the creation of a small police group whose members could be hired by citizens to apprehend thieves, investigate criminal activity, and more.
But 126 years later, the group survives - outside any system of accountability, the SCI report said. Bergen County members of the group said they have withstood criticism before, and legislation to have them disbanded has failed. Membership in the NJDA historically often passed from father to son without any formal training, but now the group has many highly qualified former law enforcement officers, they said.
John A. D'Angelo of Glen Rock, a retired police officer in that municipality and a former detective in the Bergen County Prosecutor's Office, is the president of the group. He said the SCI report failed to mention how members work closely with municipal, county, and federal law enforcement agencies - usually free of charge - to supplement those understaffed agencies. He said he has worked with the Glen Rock and Ridgewood police departments in small ways, giving tips, assisting on investigations. Law enforcement sources confirmed D'Angelo's assistance in Glen Rock and Ridgewood.
"We're out there all the time. If something happens, we're there to help out," D'Angelo said. But SCI spokesman Lee Seglem said most police departments want nothing to do with the freelance detectives. Some are surprised that they even exist. People in Emerson a few years ago had never heard of the group when a member, George G. D'Elia, went from house to house flashing his badge and asking questions about a burglary suspect, Bergen County Assistant Prosecutor Maryann Salemi said. The residents called the Emerson police, and they, too, were puzzled.
A Superior Court judge ended up ruling that D'Elia had to forfeit his gun. But the ruling applied only to D'Elia, not to other NJDA members. Most of the time, the freelance police don't work without pay, SCI officials said. D'Angelo and another detective who agreed to be interviewed declined to reveal their earnings. D'Angelo spoke from a car phone on his way to a job in South Jersey, where he said he is investigating theft at a private corporation. The company hired D'Angelo because, if necessary, he could make an arrest - something he said he rarely does.
Members of the NJDA range in age form 40 to 74. Ten are former law enforcement officers. At least 13 have no formal police training. Matthew J. Donohue of Hackensack, who at 74 is one of the oldest members of the group, said the SCI investigation was prompted by disgruntled and politically connected applicants who could not get into the group. Some were highly qualified, but the law allows only 25 positions and all were filled, Donohue said. In the past, Donohue said, he has worked with county and federal agencies, but the work is not always glamorous. In a current case, he said, he is buying paint samples to help Benjamin Moore & Co. prove that a competitor is fraudulently marketing a product.
Don't I remember also that the airports outsourced security to independent security firms?
::remember the story about the security firms that didn't do criminal background checks::
I am not sure how that relates to the Leon County / Tallahassee issue..
I was responding to post 25.
To the Citizens of Leon County / City of Tallahassee:
Do you really think we need TWO duplicate Law Enforcement Agencies? When the City of Tallahassee was small, the City formed a small "police department" to augment the service that has been provided by the Sheriff's Office since 1874.
Since then and especially in the last 20 years, the City has continue to grow to the point where (in my opinion) has created an agency that will continue to grow and "compete" with the constitutional office of the Sheriff... this (in my opinion) is not necessary....
What the citizens of Tallahassee need to do is pass (by citizen initiative) an Ammendment to the CITY CHARTER which states that the City of Tallahassee SHALL CONTRACT with the Sheriff of Leon County to provide law enforcement services. This will eliminate the duplication, and the City Commission will be able to negotiate with the Sheriff's Office as to how many Deputies (in GREEN UNIFORMS) they want to patrol the City at a cost FAR LESS than what it cost to provide a POLICE OFFICER in a (BLUE UNIFORM).
David Osborne
850-933-8511
Any Tallahassee Residents out there with an opinion on this?
The proposed ballot language reads as follows: "Shall the city of Tallahassee's power to have a city Police Department be transferred to the sheriff of Leon County so as to create one single law-enforcement agency within Leon County under the direction of an elected sheriff?" ___
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GREAT.. now the City Commission needs to decide if they really want the PEOPLE to vote or if they want to BLOCK us from expressing our voice at the ballot box
Please contact the Tallahassee City Commissioners and ask them to LET US VOTE !!
http://www.talgov.com/gov/commission.cfm
City Hall
300 South Adams Street
Tallahassee, FL 32301
850-891-0000
http://www.tallahassee.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?Category=CUSTOMERSERVICE03
You can also help my contacting OUR local paper with an OP-ED about letting the PEOPLE VOTE !!
BTTT
We have almost the same thing here in Bay County and it really does work. We do hurricanes here and (even worse) Spring Break and it goes as smoothly as weather permits.
The closer the one-to-one relationship the law officer has with the public, the better.
State Troopers are most removed, and deputies, second. City police bring it a little closer to home.
I am not sure what you are suggesting? Are you suggesting that we should have TWO traffic Units, TWO SWAT teams, TWO Dispatch Centers..etc.etc.. all patrolling the same AREA?
Are you familiar with this issue in Leon County?
Oh yes I am! It works for us. We have two (in some cases more) of each. When something big goes down, there's lots of backup and they're on the same trunked radio system so there is excellent coordination.
This has been working well here for the over 32 years I've been here and we have been through Hurricanes Agnes, Eloise, Elana, Kate, Erin and Opal and those are just the direct hits.
Come a hurricane the advantage of having more than one dispatch center is worth its weight in gold.
As for patrolling, there have always been specific "beats" so both city and county personnel are effective and the fact that there is some overlap is a benefit.
I don't know about Leon County,FL, but here in Bay County, FL they tend to cooperate. And if they are competing, what are they competing for? (competition ain't all that bad). I can't think there's that big a difference between two places that are less than a one hour drive apart.
Centralization is not good. You can't put all the eggs in one basket. Otherwise, just have the federal gov't do the whole thing and forget it. Or maybe we let the state do it.
Law enforcement needs to be local to as great a degree as is workable.
We probably agree on more than we disagree on....
As for Leon County.. the problem we have is that when the City Of Tallahassee in recent history only had about 20 sqaure miles to patrol.. The Sheriff was obvioulsly the PRIMARY Law Enforcement Agency, and the City provided an "extra" service to the "city".
What we have to today is a police department that is growing, as the City of Tallahassee aggressively annexes larger portions of Leon County up to about 100 square miles today (and growing)..
Throughout this growing process the citizens who live "in the city" have had the choice to call the Sheriff's Office OR the Police Department for service. The Sheriff's Office has NEVER refused to respond to calls "in the City".
Are you suggesting that the Sheriff should start refusing the calls for service "in the city" simply because the Police Department is growing?
As this annexation process continues should the Sheriff start to draw down its force?
Should the citizens have the right to choose whether they want the Sheriff's Office or the Police Department to respond to their calls for service?
I look forward to your response..
David
UPDATE:
We may be getting closer to agreement on Joint Dispatch ! A step in the right direction !
David,
Come down and work in Wakulla County. You won't have to worry about those pesky police officers.
Jeff
I have no beef with the Officers on the street.. we need all the law enforcement officers we have and maybe more... this is about organization and management..
David
btt
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