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Message from a Time Traveler
Dan Simmons - Official Web Site ^ | April 1, 2006 | Dan Simmons

Posted on 04/06/2006 4:33:24 AM PDT by Mr170IQ

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To: bentfeather

We've been having great fun with this thread, at least some of us.


401 posted on 04/06/2006 5:19:07 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Mr170IQ
Science-Fiction Novel Posits Future Where Characters Are Hastily Sketched
402 posted on 04/06/2006 5:22:07 PM PDT by x
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To: Knitting A Conundrum
I read it this morning. It has been on my mind all day. Scary even though it's under SI-FI.
403 posted on 04/06/2006 5:25:45 PM PDT by Soaring Feather (Protect Your Neck-- Fly With Dragonfly Airlines & Sparkle ALot Pilots)
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To: bentfeather

What scares us is that we can visualize at least some of it happening.

Trying to figure out what the three words are has been a way to deal with it in a way that lets us think about the unthinkable with a bit of distance, I suspect.


404 posted on 04/06/2006 5:41:45 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: x

I can see that the writer of that satire hasn't read enough 50s early 60s SF....or he would know that was SOP...I recently went back and read some of the old Ace Doubles that I read when I was a kid and boy, are they bad...even when they were written by authors I knew would end up writing good stuff later...


405 posted on 04/06/2006 5:45:07 PM PDT by Knitting A Conundrum (Act Justly, Love Mercy, and Walk Humbly With God Micah 6:8)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

I concur. I do believe some of it will happen just by watching and reading the news.


406 posted on 04/06/2006 5:45:38 PM PDT by Soaring Feather (Protect Your Neck-- Fly With Dragonfly Airlines & Sparkle ALot Pilots)
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To: Shooter 2.5

.


407 posted on 04/06/2006 5:49:26 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (Vote a Straight Republican Ballot. Rid the country of dems. NRA)
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To: Mr170IQ

I read this from the link at theanchoressonline.com before it got on here and almost posted it myself. I figured somebody would, and that the gang would be on it like ugly on Helen Thomas. And I was not wrong.

My guess on the traveler's last words, at least the gist of them? Put it this way. Most of his words, the latter part, were a target list. The Islamic nutters think of us as the Great Satan. Given that, what more obvious target is there than the devil's palace?


408 posted on 04/06/2006 5:50:17 PM PDT by RichInOC (...keep rollin', rollin', rollin', rollin'...)
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To: tpaine
Well,not quite.

It may be necessary and prudent to kill your enemires.Deriving pleasure from torturing them puts you on a lower level.WE had a dog go mad(not rabid) and kill another dog without provocation.Put it down humanely and hated it but knew it was too dangerous to let live.

It is not needed to kill all Muslims,sincere conversions would suffice as long as it is Muslims converting to a religion that respects life,free will, and reason. Any belief which fears all other ideas must be weak.

409 posted on 04/06/2006 6:01:06 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: Slip18
They are so great! I have a Red Dwarf cup.

Yeah? Do you have a Mr Flibble sock puppet?

410 posted on 04/06/2006 6:04:06 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: Shooter 2.5

I see your point...


411 posted on 04/06/2006 6:14:19 PM PDT by null and void (We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit. - Aristotle)
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To: hoosierham
"-- Fear, self-interest, honor.
Which of these guides the chariot of your nation and your allies in Europe and your surprisingly fragile civilization now, O Man of 2006?"


"Which combination of those three traits -- phobos, kerdos, doxa -- will save or doom your world?" asked the Time Traveler.

"-- you are too timid, too fearful . . . too decent . . . to match the ruthlessness of your enemies. --"


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Fear, self-interest, honor...

-- Fear will doom us.

--- Self interest will save us, but only if we honor our own Constitutional principles in fighting for our civilization.

It is honorable in war to be ruthless, -- to do onto enemies as they would do onto you.

397 tpaine


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Well,not quite.
It may be necessary and prudent to kill your enemires.
Deriving pleasure from torturing them puts you on a lower level.

It is not needed to kill all Muslims,sincere conversions would suffice as long as it is Muslims converting to a religion that respects life, free will, and reason. Any belief which fears all other ideas must be weak.

409 hoosierham


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Dream on hoosier that we can 'convert' our enemies. [It's unconstitutional in any case]
And "torture"? Who suggested that?

Nope, -- far too many of us, as Simmons says, "-- are too timid, too fearful . . . too decent . . . to match the ruthlessness of our enemies. --"
412 posted on 04/06/2006 6:24:24 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine
No it is not unconstitutional for anyone to willingly convert.Sincere conversions aren't by force.

Force should be used to smash the actual "soldiers",force should be used to ensure that no money,structure or property is being used to train or house terrorists and their weapons.Force should be used to punish those who willingly hide or aid the jihadists.Force should be used to arrest and imprison those who call for attacks on the civilized world.Force should be used to ensure that no one is forced to convert to islam,nor prevented from leaving it. Force should be used against anyone involved in honor killing .

Force includes the death penanlty .

IF we can't even agree to rid America of tens of thousands of convicted murderers and millions of sneaky illegals there is little likelihood we will wipe out a billion people.

Keep in mind those billion people are kept deliberately ignorant and not permitted to hear competing beliefs.

I wonder how many hours of shortwave broadcasting of Christian or other non-islamic religion programs is carried in languages needed ?

This is even partly of our own making by allowing ourselves to be so dependent on the oil ,allowing and promoting fanatics to control it,and for J. Cahtuh mucking up the Middle East. Without the billions we send the fanatics would be plotting uselessly.Money IS power,and we give it away.

413 posted on 04/06/2006 6:47:35 PM PDT by hoosierham (Waddaya mean Freedom isn't free ?;will you take a creditcard?)
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To: tonycavanagh
1)That's very short sighted. In two generations, due to birth rates ALONE, muslims will be the majority in France and approaching the majority in most of Europe.
I have heard that argument before, about the Asians an Blacks when they first came to my country.

Anyone who is at all familiar with history has encountered this argument ad nauseam. It was once solemnly declared to be a hard mathematical inevitability that "the natural increase of the Irish shall place America at the heels of the Pope of Rome before the end of the [nineteeth] century" if they weren't kicked out and kept out.

414 posted on 04/06/2006 6:52:09 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: Knitting A Conundrum

I have something like a 10-year supply in a box in my basement. I have to read through them. I didn't read so much of them in college and the years after, just a few short stories and the science articles (the ones I could comprehend after the first two pages). Some issues have disappeared on me. I remmeber having to buy another copy of the issue with part 1 of "The Smoke Ring" because I waited for part 4 to start reading it. A couple I put aside to save because I liked some of the stories and I thought that they were good guides to writing good Analog stories. (I haven't written a good Analog story yet. Someday. Maybe. But I doubt it -- I don't know the science part well enough.)


415 posted on 04/06/2006 7:00:44 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (I didn't know she was a liberal when I married her.)
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To: calljack
This is all from the perspective that Islam has won. Isn't that the fact that the traveler is saying?

Islam has not won. After 100 years (from 1968, when RFK was assassinated in LA, for Islamic reasons.) the outcome is still in doubt. Even if the author knows what the words are, to not write them, makes the piece more powerful.

I think it is clear from the piece, that the Traveler is the Author's grandson. However, I don't think that "I am [insert pet name here]" would strike terror in any one else. It could be "Remember Los Angeles" or "Remember New York" or Remember some other city, but it is clear from the article that San Francisco and Dallas both got hit with a WMD.

I propose "We nuke Mecca". THAT would strike fear in anyone.

416 posted on 04/06/2006 7:02:30 PM PDT by NathanR (Après moi, le deluge.)
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To: tonycavanagh
And I remember the same arguments about the Communists and their plans for world domination.
Time and time again we were told we had to be more ruthless that the regimented and ruthless communists who were going to win aided by the 5th columnists in West Europe and the USA.
And they had the mighty Soviet Union and Communist China behind them.
Everyone was so busy looking at the Communist threat nobody noticed the cracks and fault lines within the system.
The same cracks and fault lines that exit in Islamic society.

The only quibble I would raise is that, yes, plenty of people did see the cracks and fault lines in the foundations of Communist power (but, as usual, the din raised by Chicken Little and Company tended to drown out the quite voice of rational analysis).

I remember being somewhat taken aback when reading one of the essays in Heinlein's Expanded Universe, in which he described the falling out between the Soviets and the ChiComs as a long-shot stroke of good luck for Western Civilization (rather than a near inevitability once the latter no longer felt that they needed the aid of the former).

417 posted on 04/06/2006 7:03:55 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: calljack
This is all from the perspective that Islam has won.

Obviously not, unless there's some way to build a time machine out of stone knives and camel skins.

418 posted on 04/06/2006 7:05:30 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: Cold Heat
I often wonder what would have happened, had not the "New Testament" been written or brought to the forefront.

Obviously, the New Testament per se is not required -- Jews today don't go around engaging in massacres of the sort described in the Biblical account of the original conquest of Caanan.

Realistically, what civilizes a religion (or any other major institution) is some counterveiling force that prevents it from wreaking evil, or at least penalizes it significantly for doing so. In the case of Christianity, the civilizing process was a fallout of struggles between Church and State and (particularly after that German monk tacked his notions up on a church door) between church and church.

419 posted on 04/06/2006 7:13:31 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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To: John O
That's not how islam works. an advance for any part of islam is an advance for all islam.

LOL! Tell that to the surviving relatives of a Shiite killed by a Sunni (or vice versa) in the Iraqi civil war whatever they're calling it this week.

420 posted on 04/06/2006 7:16:26 PM PDT by steve-b (A desire not to butt into other people's business is eighty percent of all human wisdom)
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