The Judas We Never Knew

Christianity Today ^ | 04/06/2006 | Collin Hansen

[sirchtruth]

But common sense tells you that the two stories are inconsistent. What did he do with his 30 pieces of silver?

You're still assuming things in these stories. It does NOT say he bought the piece of land with the 30 piece of silver. (In Matt: 27:5) - It does say he threw down the silver in the temple. (In Acts 1:18)- It says he purchased the field with the "reward of iniquity", which you are assuming means the silver pieces. To be fair I just don't know at this point, but I will research this and see if I can find a prophecy about it.

Two things: Matthew was right there and was writting probably what he himself witnessed, Paul wasn't. So Paul is giving a different account than Matthew and I dare say fits a totally different perspective from Matt.

The bible is 66 books with over 40 authors that is an intergrated message system (C. Missler). And what appears to be contradiction is just an ignorance of the whole facts.

I could show you things about the integrity of scripture that would make your head spin...

[ekeni]

I have had some revelations! It occurred to me that since Judas committed suicide he didn’t write the gnostic Gospel of Judas.I'm surpride also that the Jewish establsishment did not know of this story in AD 30. Of course if it died with Judas' suicude then how did the story come about and have any historical credibility? Certainly none of the apostles mention it.Jesus could have handed himself in. Did he double cross Judas by making him an unnecessary fall guy? I feel a Dan Brown moment coming on!
Then again perhaps it was possible Judas may have lived, married Mary Magdalene and lived in the south of France with their children! Brilliant! I had heard something like that recently. Yes, it was Dan Brown’s (Da Vinci Code) story, but silly me, Jesus is portrayed as the husband/father of Mary. Then it also dawned on me Judas couldn’t have committed suicide and then married Mary Magdalene. Even I’m not that stupid!
Of course these mysterious gnostic men of letters were certainly nothing if not creative, and sometimes a touch bizarre.
The gnostic Gospel of Thomas has Jesus saying “ I myself will lead her (Mary) in order to make her male so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males.”
Since the Gospel of Judas was written a long time after the Christian gospels perhaps the real writer was a “Judy.” Must rush! I have some important research to do, but first I’ll reread the Christian gospels for a dose of realism.

[ekeni]

I have had some revelations! It occurred to me that since Judas committed suicide he didn’t write the gnostic Gospel of Judas.I'm surpride also that the Jewish establsishment did not know of this story in AD 30. Of course if it died with Judas' suicude then how did the story come about and have any historical credibility? Certainly none of the apostles mention it.Jesus could have handed himself in. Did he double cross Judas by making him an unnecessary fall guy? I feel a Dan Brown moment coming on!
Then again perhaps it was possible Judas may have lived, married Mary Magdalene and lived in the south of France with their children! Brilliant! I had heard something like that recently. Yes, it was Dan Brown’s (Da Vinci Code) story, but silly me, Jesus is portrayed as the husband/father of Mary. Then it also dawned on me Judas couldn’t have committed suicide and then married Mary Magdalene. Even I’m not that stupid!
Of course these mysterious gnostic men of letters were certainly nothing if not creative, and sometimes a touch bizarre.
The gnostic Gospel of Thomas has Jesus saying “ I myself will lead her (Mary) in order to make her male so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males.”
Since the Gospel of Judas was written a long time after the Christian gospels perhaps the real writer was a “Judy.” Must rush! I have some important research to do, but first I’ll reread the Christian gospels for a dose of realism.

[Cacique]

For you religious folks.

[Dog Gone]

I'm not trying to shake your belief in the Bible. But the two accounts are surely describing the same couple of events and they vary widely on the details.

I doubt any disciple was there at the death of Judas. Luke, the most likely author of Acts, was not even one of the disciples.

They both got their accounts from heresay evidence and wrote accordingly. It's hardly surprising that the accounts differ.

[kittymyrib]

This is just the secular humanists celebrating Holy Week by dragging up ancient heresies to attack the Bible. Nothing new for the anti-Christians at National Geographic.

[Dog Gone]

heresay=hearsay. Oops

[the invisib1e hand]

there's this: if Jesus "asked" Judas to betray Him, wouldn't that mean that God (Jesus) tempted a man to sin -- tempted him, in fact, to kill God? So then, if Jesus is God, and he tempted Judas to betray Himself, wouldn't that then also make Jesus the devil?

Of course, if Jesus isn't God, then that wouldn't be the case.

So, it would seem this sophomoric piece of sophistry leaves you with a choice: either Jesus isn't God, or God is the devil; and, either way, 2000 years of Church history (the history of civilization) is a hoax.

Someday this "document" will be proven a fake, I'll wager.

[hosepipe]

Is Al Franken and Kitty Kelly producing this book?...

[Raycpa]

The word translated "hanged himself" in the KJV is apanchomai from the Greek word apancho. Only used once in the New Testament. In classical literature it means "to strangle" or "to choke" and is used figuratively to mean to choke with anger or grief. The word apancho is a combination of apo, "away from," and ancho, "to squeeze or embrace." It carries a negative connotation meaning "to squeeze from". "Choking" is a literal "squeezing the life from" whereas "choking with grief" is a figurative as in the English expression "all choked up". This would be correct only to the extent that Judas did not die immediately in Matthew 27, but was extremely grieved over the betrayal. He was carried away by grief and despair. Over a period of time he let this grief consume him until he could no longer tolerate it. This figurative usage is verified in classical writings. Various older Greek manuscripts indicate difficulties others have with the word apancho by their deliberate change of the text to more familiar words like apeuchomai which means "to wish a thing away" [MSS 803, 983, 1415, 1608, 2521, and 2539]. Judas wished he had never betrayed Jesus. Fits with the word "repent" in verse 3. Judas regretted what he had done and tried to turn away from the actions in his mind, to wish his thoughts away. One ancient manuscript has the word apopnigo, which is also used figuratively "to choke with vexation or rage" [MS 273] A related word pnigalion means "nightmare". Another manuscript uses the word apago meaning "to lead away" [MS 827] These variations in the text indicate misunderstanding of apancho followed by deliberate and unwarranted attempts at clarification.

Judas' response in Matthew 27:5 wasn't so different from Peter's, who upon realizing his weakness in denying the Master, withdrew himself from the people and wept bitterly. Both were emotionally distraught upon realizing their errors but the difference is obvious. Peter was able to overcome his trauma and again follow the Master. Judas continued to let his emotions hold sway in his mind, so that when he saw Jesus Christ ascend, Judas' distraught mind and errational thinking led him to the point that a spirit of suicide possessed his mind. At that point Judas departed for his own property and killed himself.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:IJc9ox3gxhIJ:www.religiousforums.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-3453.html+apagchomai&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9

[Wiz]

ping

[Dog Gone]

That is interesting. Unfortunately, it leads to more questions than answers.

If the KJV got it wrong there, and "hanged" really meant "got all choked up with suicidal tendencies", then what other translation problems have we mistakenly taken as gospel?

Not many of us are skilled enough in contemporary languages, much less the ancient ones in order to reach our own conclusions of the original intent.

[Raycpa]

Apparenty it is only time this word is used and the writer has some interesting references that Judas had to be alive until after cruxifiction.

People who rush to concluding that something is a contradiction when other explanations are possible trouble me. They seem to have a need for contradictions to exist.

If the accounts are actually contradictions, the early Christians would have noticed.

[ChiefBoatswain]

That's true about all of the gospels, my friend. They were all written at a minimum decades after the events they purport to chronicle.

Then, they were "finalized" by Constantine, and he was a politician.

[Dog Gone]

If the accounts are actually contradictions, the early Christians would have noticed.

Are you kidding me? Do you think early Christians had access to all the writings so they could compare? How many of them could even read?

[Scotswife]

"What a coincidence that they pull this old story out just before Easter. "

Exactly!!
And within days of the "Jesus walked on ice" story.
Soon they'll have us believing Judas and Jesus were ice surfing on the Sea of Galilee together.

I'm getting sick of hearing them talk about these "early christian" writings.
The gnostics were not christians!! That's why we call them gnostics!

[pctech]

Since I'm in the middle of a homework assignment I will say only this for now. These stories do not contradict each other. They are only various aspects of the same story. These passages compliment each other, not contradict. If you look at it from this mindset you will see the alleged contradictions in a whole new light.

[LauraleeBraswell]

""The Gospel of Judas debuted Thursday in Washington, D.C. What's the Gospel of Judas, you ask? Well, it's not a gospel. And it's not written by Judas.""


First off, none of the Gospels were written by apostles. The earliest of Mathew Mark Luke and John was written at least 70 years after Christs death. None of them knew Christ.

[familyop]

SkyDancer wrote:
"He hung himself, there was an earthquake when Jesus was on the cross and the tree fell over the cliff .... best I could come up with ... saw it in an old movie once ....but a good explanation nonetheless"

Oh, goodie! Let me be a Roman for a minute and help you with that. Let's see...we have to fill in the part from Acts, where it says that Judas purchased his suicide property with the blood money.

"He hung himself, there was an earthquake when Jesus was on the cross and the tree fell over the cliff..." Then, while Judas was dead and falling, he purchased the property under him with the pieces of silver that he threw on the floor of the temple in Matthew 27. Then he splatted on his new place, and his guts came out.

So when's the next council, and am I invited?