Posted on 04/09/2006 4:49:32 AM PDT by Alas Babylon!
I am a follower of Milton Friedman who believes in a very limited govt.
In fact basically he feels the govt. should be limited to securing our currency, keeping us safe from foreign intervention and securing our borders.
. He is also aghast at the income tax and federal spending, not his cup of tea either.He is brilliant economist and I have followed much of his free to chose mentality for years.
Thank you ,...once again, Paul Gigot's show was the best.
My apologies to Brit and the Fox Show...I just LEARN more on the Gigot show.
excellent site here.
Thanks samantha! Indeed another stellar thread,hope you can join us next week.
No, no. This is Common Sense. Not to say the earlier posts weren't common sense, but I'm talking about the kind that requires caps.
We must never forget Thomas Paine and particularly that pamphlet. His arguments there apply to so much that is America, including many elements of BOTH sides of this issue. I marvel at this piece every time I am reminded of it.
We want a good and just a society and a government is a necessary evil of extending that society beyond a small group of people who can decide things as a single group.
Government, like dress, is the badge of lost innocence; the palaces of kings are built upon the ruins of the bowers of paradise. For were the impulses of conscience clear, uniform and irresistibly obeyed, man would need no other lawgiver; but that not being the case, he finds it necessary to surrender up a part of his property to furnish means for the protection of the rest; and this he is induced to do by the same prudence which in every other case advises him, out of two evils to choose the least. Wherefore, security being the true design and end of government, it unanswerably follows that whatever form thereof appears most likely to ensure it to us, with the least expense and greatest benefit, is preferable to all others.
But we must also consider what type of society we wish to be and what efforts of government are necessary to achieve that end. "Security being the true design and end of government" is the operative term here, so securing the border is paramount in this view. However, that government's actions must be accomplished "with the least expense and greatest benefit." Aye, there's the rub.
I say secure the border first. That will stop the damage from getting any worse than it already is. The doctor's oath includes "first, do no harm." A politicians should now include "stop doing harm when you realize you've done it." When I was an EMT the mantra was we needed to first address issues of "breathing, bleeding, poisoning, shock" as those were the killers and that was the order you had to deal with them in if you were to save a victim. We are breathing, so we're OK there, but we are bleeding and we may be being poisoned. We are certainly in shock. We must stop the bleeding by securing the border, preferably by deploying an effective military force (here is my "brilliant" idea on that score). Then we must address the issue of poisoning and identify, isolate and remove any sources of immediate danger who are hiding among the "undocumented" community. Finally we must find a way to deal with the shock of the largest mass migration of a single people from one country to another in human history. We cannot long survive as a country if we don't deal with this in a way that preserves our soul.
Tony, I'm pinging you on this not because of anything I say here, but to suggest that you might find some effective arguments in Paine's Common Sense to use as you put forward your position on the immigration issue. You might also find some things to cause you to rethink some of the "from the hip" comments you have made during this debate, as well (not your overall position, but some "of the moment" responses to some of your more... forceful callers <g>).
P.S. I wish to contradict my old classmate, Mara, from Scarsdale High School class of '73 on the Brit Hume show just now. She just stated that the argument is "who is for a path to legalization and who is against it." That is NOT what is at the heart of this debate. It is who is for securing our borders and who is against it. Just look at the Dubai ports deal if you doubt the power of that message. That is what the Republicans must champion. Divorce this from the question of those who are already here. Seal the borders NOW. Then we will have the time and breathing space to address both the risks of those here who are not interested in our welfare and contrive a decent response to those who are here for benign reasons. That is the good and just way out of this question.
Really great stuff here, stop by more often Barset!
The three of us have to give it a try.
Good research, and thank you for it. For me, I will include this as more I can learn.
I read a Tomas Paine Common Sense opinion piece that I believed was really wrong and did not address realities today. Don't know if this is it, and I'll look to verify.
Regardless, please consider. Not all of our founding fathers or citizen colonialists agreed on either issues or how to wage the war with England. For that matter, less than one third supported the war with England OR independence. My only point is don't consider "Tomas Paine said this so lets all get in line in agreement" is the only valid action.
One more point, that I do NOT have an answer to. The laws of America and the US Constitution changed with the Civil War. There are contradictions between pre and post Civil War. Many of them have to ba changed or factored into the current debate.
Morgan
So did anyone even bother to notice that Jveritas and Free Republic got mentioned in NRO's story today about the Saddam Docs or all we now just all immigration all the time? An people wonder why the New Media cannot break the Junk Media choke hold on information flow.
I don't advocate looking to Thomas Paine's Common Sense as a guide to jumping this way or that. That's why I emphasized that it addressed both sides of this question.
I do suggest that it provides one of many valuable sources of intellectual context for examing this issue. He'd make a great Freeper. As with most freepers I wouldn't always agree with him (I don't always end up agreeing with myself!). But I definitely would welcome his arguments. The man knew how to frame a question.
Write it down.
Nope, didn't know about any exposure. I'm grateful, however.
Otherwise, I'll let the rest of you discuss all this. I have to escape from FR for awhile.
Mega dittos
Time to honor all those freepers who excelled in the Sunday Morning t.v talk show thread.
This week the main topic was immigration although we were all over the place as usual. Hard to imagine Ron Brown rearing his dead head from the grave but we touched on his death,(and were soundly straightened out by one of fr's finest) we have some superlative special awards,John Kerry's appearance on mtp was closely analyzed,some new and exciting perspectives on the war,more msm/new media analysis,the plame leak investigation and much more.
To get started let's acknowledge some good posts.
arnoldpalmerfan--#379--MTP Tim tried to make JD Hayworth look bad,401.
beyondthesea--#208
carolinamom--#37 Who was mind boggled by Julian Phillips(F&FSunday) getting the Edward R Murrow award ,101
bahbah--343--Boehner is smooth, our new house leader is a player after all it seems. Good pick by a brilliant freeper.
Baynative--432--lack of courage in leadership,475--ben afflecks take on GW--amusing if nothing else,great to see baynative joining the fray again.
caidella--#509--Those evil suicide bombers--great take. chuck54--#63,171--must read! The mule and the farmer/US/Iran great stuff here--keep the bat handy-you gotta read this one. braY-- #559 Ernestatthebeach# i forgot--Ollie North takes on Kerry--(so shoot me), look it up.
defconw--#651--choice of Hillary or Mccain
greyfoxx#39--what are the other 10 million illegals doing--gf has a great answer. aliveritas--685,704,855,856--she's always holding back on this thread, maybe one day...
gov.beancounter--#715--Two stars, excellent take on Kerry the phony. fox0566-weekend programming on FNC,907 Gritty--forgot again--the jobs Americans won't do.
johnny7-#479--call your reps after nov.(when they grow back a set) ianschwartz--#996--double star post--great link--dems need to colonize the hispanics--must read.
laverne--166--fns analysis,311,557 MO1--#207,416--msm-lets takls about the sadaam papers--great read
mainepatsfan--#76--nice to have the msm on your side--revealing the rats some more jerseydvl--#498--will pay more for lettuce
masadaman--3824--t.v has it upside down newndad#-134--
rodguy911--#72,810,843,852,905 patriotfromphilly--222--msm bias,230,653,
rockit--#251,601--abc is making choices 780--respect the law rightinvirginia--#98
shadeaud--#108--Russert softballed Kerry shrinkermd--#190--Gas,Iraq, immigration--great post--must read,377--arlen spectre take--good
tomguy#116--great graphics p23185----matthews part of the hate gwb crowd schroll--316--illegals, deficit roccus-392--good--it's all about scoring political points,
zook--205
Tomorrow morning we will get into the special awards and the top ten.(gotta watch 24)
http;//www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1611235/posts
2.samantha--This is a special award since it is a sort of future posting award.Recently at a campaign meeting for Fla. Rep Catherine Harris who is running against the dumbest Senator ever,bill nelson,d Fl., samantha was told by Harris that she was to be the official voice on Fr for Harris. Let's help both ladies all we can, we need to rid the state of the plague that is Nelson.
3.maggief--#79 this is a photo award and get ready for a great laugh.
4.anita--#145--anita's Media Nuggets are something else! She covers the spectrum. This week it's Ann Coulter at the UF,Katie Couric's move to cbs and how she is now dating Laura Ingraham's old boy friend, Meredith Viera(the view) who takes the perky one's place and her anti-war activites--on par for the l/w/dnc/media,plus a great shot of Condi Rice doing what she loves and much more.
5.barset--post # 749--This post features an article written by Laura Bluemenfield in the June 1,2003 washpost of all places. Blumenfeld describes Kerry as no one else can, complete with Kerry "riding a harley" and sporting his "hunting image", it unmasks a huge phony; JFKerry and is very well done.
6.MNJohnnie #363--In each and every thread we have one or two posts that stand out as "defining" the thread. This week was no exception.Post #363 is a four minute video and if you don't get to see anything else on the entire thread make sure you download this one.
The video was shot in Iraq by our troops with a little help from "EC" as well. It shows the war from many sides and is the type of thing that one would hope we would see more of on the msm but realizing the success story it tells we know we won't.
Don't miss it. If you can watch the entire 4 minutes and still have dry eyes you are a better freeper than I. Great job by all.
7.jveritas#638--a three star post. Freeper jveritas has been translating the Saddaam tapes on his own and the info ,intel he has come up with should get him accolades throughout the country! This particular post translates an order from Sadaam "to all concerned to remove any references to wmd's from their computers." If this is not a smoking/WMD gun, what is.
jveritas has been recognized by many including Tony Snow and his work continues. We salute him here on FR as truly a Great American doing extremely important work out of love for country. We do appreciate what you do jveritas. 8. last but hardly least Britt Hume ended his Friday show on FNC with a priceless tounge in cheek video about Sadaam.It showed Saddamm "being translated" as he spoke these words;
there once was a man from Tikrit who complained about Sadaam on the street he was soon whished away and I'm happy to say no longer has tongue,hands or feet.
Congrats to all special award winners this week and what a week it was fr special awards on the Sunday t.v talk show.
Top ten coming up later on today.
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