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IRS requests PayPal Records in tax-evasion probe
Wall Street Journal ^ | April 12, 2006 | Rob Wells

Posted on 04/12/2006 5:11:46 AM PDT by theBuckwheat

U.S. Seeks PayPal Customer Data In Attempt to Find Tax Evaders By ROB WELLS April 12, 2006; Page D2

The Justice Department has asked PayPal Inc., the online-payment-processing unit of Internet auctioneer eBay Inc., to turn over some customer records as part of a tax-evasion probe, a top tax official said.

U.S. District Judge James Ware in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California in February issued a "John Doe" summons to PayPal, of San Jose, Calif., for the records....

The summons requires PayPal to provide account and transaction records relating to U.S. taxpayers with MasterCard, Visa and American Express cards issued by banks based in tax-haven countries. The request covers Dec. 31, 1999, through Dec. 31, 2004. PayPal spokeswoman Amanda Pires said the company is evaluating its options. She said the request covers banks based in 35 countries, yet PayPal is available in only 10 of those countries.

In a court filing, the Justice Department said foreign countries such as Antigua, Luxembourg, Panama and Switzerland have bank-secrecy laws that compel U.S. investigators to seek records from other sources, such as credit-card issuers.

(subscription required to access full article)

(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: government; irs; paypal; privacy; probe; taxes; taxevasion
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The 16th Amendment gives the IRS the power to datamine and troll through vast pools of customer purchase data to find audit targets. Yet another reason why we need the Fair Tax and to repeal the 16th.
1 posted on 04/12/2006 5:11:47 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat

Ruh Roh


2 posted on 04/12/2006 5:13:53 AM PDT by roaddog727 (P=3/8 A. or, P=plenty...............)
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To: theBuckwheat
What we need is a minimal flat income tax (perhaps exempting the first X-thousand dollars) and some form of consumption tax.

However, the current laws can be used to justify this sort of snooping, so.....

-Eric

3 posted on 04/12/2006 5:17:45 AM PDT by E Rocc
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To: theBuckwheat

Until then, bust the crooks.


4 posted on 04/12/2006 5:19:51 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: theBuckwheat
Dear IRS,

I am an ILLEGAL alien from Mexico.
So go screw yourself - I'm special, and protected by your boss.
So keep your stinkin' mitts off my Pay Pal account.

Regards,

Juan from L.A.
Julio from Chicago

Juanita in Brooklyn

[etc, etc, etc, (20 million times) ]

ps: Where's MY Child Tax Credit you stoo-pid Gringos?

5 posted on 04/12/2006 5:35:01 AM PDT by Condor51 (Better to fight for something than live for nothing - Gen. George S. Patton)
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To: theBuckwheat

Sounds like a fishing expedition.


6 posted on 04/12/2006 5:55:10 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Islam Factoid:After forcing young girls to watch his men execute their fathers, Muhammad raped them.)
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To: E Rocc
What we need is a minimal flat income tax (perhaps exempting the first X-thousand dollars) and some form of consumption tax.

That approach makes the most sense. Having a 30% sales tax on all goods and services will have too much of a negative impact on consumption putting us into a recession and will be too inflationary thereby eroding the value of savings. But we need a consumption tax so we can be more competitive in the global markets.

7 posted on 04/12/2006 6:10:51 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right
>>
Having a 30% sales tax on all goods and services will have too much of a negative impact on consumption putting us into a recession
<<

What is the net economic difference between these two:

1) Employer pays a worker $100 for a day's work, but has to withhold $30 for income tax. Worker gets $75 for a day's work with which to pay his bills;

2) Employer pays a worker $100 for a day's work. Employee gets $100 with which to pay his bills. When he does so, there is a sales tax of 30% charged.

You can speculate about any temporary impact on consumer behavior as people mentally adjust to perceived changes in income and prices, but the net economic impact of either is the same, EXCEPT for the following essential factors:

There are two important functions to taxes, only one of which is obvious to most people:

1) Raise the monies necessary to fund government functions;

2) Make the cost of government functions visible and tangible to the citizens who demand those functions and who benefit from them.

When taxes on income are so well hidden through payroll deductions that the average citizen is happy if they get a big refund, it is clear that the cost of government has been hidden as well. Shifting from an income tax to a consumption tax brings the cost of government services into fuller daily disclosure to the average citizens. That is exactly why supporters of Big and Bigger Government, especially supporters of the Welfare-Warfare State are against it.

Do not confuse price levels with inflation. The two are apples and oranges. The falling price of disk drives is a function of productivity and technology improvements, not the money supply. The rising price of gasoline has far more to do with a shortage of MTBE, the shortage of ethanol, the balkanization of gasoline blends, and the lack of refining capacity in the US (all as a result of government policy), than it is about the money supply.
8 posted on 04/12/2006 6:47:44 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat

When taxes on income are so well hidden through payroll deductions that the average citizen is happy if they get a big refund, it is clear that the cost of government has been hidden as well. Shifting from an income tax to a consumption tax brings the cost of government services into fuller daily disclosure to the average citizens. That is exactly why supporters of Big and Bigger Government, especially supporters of the Welfare-Warfare State are against it.

Well said.

The FairTax eliminates the problem which is the topic of the article. It eliminates the income tax, withholding and the IRS. A flat tax retains the problem because it's an income tax and it keeps withholding and the IRS. 

Financial privacy is greatly increased with the FairTax -- only required to divulge income for purpose of collecting future social security benefits. A flat tax maintains the IRS stranglehold that severely violates financial privacy. Not to mention the IRS deems a person guilty until proven innocent -- a perversion of justice.

Illegal aliens will pay the FairTax at the register but be ineligible to collect social security benefits. The FairTax makes USA made products more price-competitive -- more attractive -- in foreign markets.

The FairTax will make United States the mega tax haven of the world. Returning trillions of US dollars that are now offshore and sucking in a trillion dollars in foreign money. (PayPal "problem"* solved.) The FairTax will cause an economic boom with major increases in new jobs and businesses across the board.

The FairTax strips out embedded taxes and compliance costs and in effect charges them off at the cash register. Thus it is a wash. Especially since foreign made products now sold in the United States have about one-quarter the embedded US taxes in them as USA made products. 

The only US taxes embedded in foreign products come from warehouse, distribution and retail. None of the manufacturing and supply chain of foreign-made products have US taxes embedded in them. Thus three-fourths of price decrease will apply to USA made products. Foreign made products will see only about one-quarter of the price decrease.

*Problem in quotes because it is only a problem in a anti-free-market perspective.

9 posted on 04/12/2006 7:09:56 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: theBuckwheat

>>Worker gets $75 for a day's work with which to pay his bills;<<

Excuse me, I have FICA on the brain from working on my own taxes. Worker gets $70.

BTW, last year my federal return was 31 pages long and cost $1250 to be professionally prepared. I dare not do it myself.

This in itself is a direct tax that results in zero capital investment. It is the Full Employment for Accountants and Tax Attorneys law.

If people are worried about "inflation" and loss to the economy they wrongly speculate would come from replacing a tax on income with a tax on spending, why are they totally silent about the horrid costs of filing, complying, processing and auditing?

All these billions of dollars are pure waste. We might as well use the Federal Reserve Notes for cattle feed or concrete filler. Not a single shed tear over the forest of trees that must be consumed each year for the paperwork alone.

Something is wrong when the more complex system, the more costly system, and the system that destroys more liberty and privacy than any other is the one we should use next year.


10 posted on 04/12/2006 7:10:23 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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To: theBuckwheat
We are paying taxes for rich Mexican industrialists who are not obliged to pay social security, medicare, medicaid, unemployment, health care or retirement for their employees.

The owner of TracFone is one such person who is raking in profits while we pay the social costs of Mexico.

11 posted on 04/12/2006 7:14:59 AM PDT by x_plus_one (Wensleydale is best)
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To: theBuckwheat
What is the net economic difference between these two:

1) Employer pays a worker $100 for a day's work, but has to withhold $30 for income tax. Worker gets $75 for a day's work with which to pay his bills;

2) Employer pays a worker $100 for a day's work. Employee gets $100 with which to pay his bills. When he does so, there is a sales tax of 30% charged.

The biggest difference is the guy who saved his whole life under system 1, now has his life's savings taxed again when he has to buy stuff at an inflated price. There is also the psychological difference of seeing that 30% added on which is going to make more people try to avoid it by cheating the system or simply not buying.

12 posted on 04/12/2006 8:10:22 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: theBuckwheat
Something is wrong when the more complex system, the more costly system, and the system that destroys more liberty and privacy than any other is the one we should use next year.

On paper a sales tax sounds nice and friendly. However once people start avoiding the tax, the tax collector will employ an even more intrusive method to individuals. Right now the only taxable transaction most individuals have to worry about is their wages. The sales tax makes every single purchase a taxable event with the buyer being liable for the tax. The buyer only transfers that liability to the seller if he has a proper receipt. The new tax collector will have the authority to audit every single purchase an individual makes to ensure taxes were paid. I am at a lose for where all this new found liberty is. The new tax collector will do anal exams on individuals or else there will be massive tax evasion. I agree, there will be significant compliance cost savings, but the liberty arguement is shallow.

13 posted on 04/12/2006 8:23:21 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right

I agree, there will be significant compliance cost savings, but the liberty arguement is shallow.

The FairTax-promotes-liberty argument is the opposite of shallow. It's right on target. Your boogieman is shallow, and that's an understatement.

Under the FairTax only the retailer must keep records of the sales tax collected. The consumer has no obligation. Besides, your boogieman that the government will or can hold every person, or most people or one tenth of people accountable for every sales receipt is absurd beyond belief. It's several fold easier, simpler and more effective to hold the retailer accountable than the consumer. And that's why the FairTax holds the retailer accountable and not the consumer.

14 posted on 04/12/2006 8:40:32 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Zon
Under the FairTax only the retailer must keep records of the sales tax collected. The consumer has no obligation.

The receipt is the consumers only evidence that he has paid the tax and is required if the consumer does not want to pay tax on the item again should the government decide to audit him. And yes they can just decide to audit him, if they think he may owe tax. And yes he must produce documents if requested. It is all spelled out in the Fair Tax bill. Remember, the first thing the FairTax bill does is make the consumer liable for the tax.

15 posted on 04/12/2006 9:43:38 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right; ancient_geezer; pigdog; Principled

The receipt is the consumers only evidence that he has paid the tax and is required if the consumer does not want to pay tax on the item again should the government decide to audit him.

That applies to selling a used item. Providing proof that the sales tax was already  paid on the item. A house or a car, for example. The retail seller of the house and car also recorded the sales tax paid. The vast majority,  99% or more of consumer purchases are never resold. The government may audit a business it suspects of evading the tax by making consumption purchases using the business certificate to do so.

Remember, the first thing the FairTax bill does is make the consumer liable for the tax.

The first to be held accountable for remitting the tax to the government is the businesses. You claim wrong. You claim the government will play cop over the consumer/retailer transaction to ensure the consumer pays the sales tax to the retailer. The government polices the retailer to ensure the retailer remits the tax to the government.

I stand by my statement that: "The FairTax-promotes-liberty argument is the opposite of shallow. It's right on target. Your boogieman is shallow, and that's an understatement."

a_g, pigdog, Principled, you guys want to weigh in?

16 posted on 04/12/2006 10:32:26 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Zon
pigdog will dispute the sky is blue to shill for the fairtax, but a simple reading of the bill shows:

1.  This is where the fairtax makes the Consumer LIABLE for sales tax unless they receive a purchasers receipt.  This applies to all sales of goods and services.  It is not for the selling of used goods as you stated in your comment.

SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX .

2.  Here is where the fairtax requires people to produce papers upon request.

SEC. 506. BURDEN OF PERSUASION AND BURDEN OF PRODUCTION.

3.  And who is subject to such audits and summons?  Why all 'persons' are.  There are no exceptions in the bill to protect buyers.  All they have to do is think you might have a liability, which any person who buys something has a potential liablity.

`SEC. 508. SUMMONS, EXAMINATIONS, AUDITS, ETC.

 

Pigdog will do his usually distortions and will demonstrate an usual ability to twist and spin the truth.  But there are no protections for individuals in the bill from extreme anal examination from the new and improved tax collectors. 

 

 

17 posted on 04/12/2006 11:00:46 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right
The below is a safeguard against control-freak government agents running amok. Government will be held at bay from targeting anyone but solid suspects. The FairTax will not create criminals out of people as the income-tax code and the IRS does. The compliant box of receipts a person keeps will take up less space and much, much less time and much, much less money than the present system requires. With the probability of an audit about 100 times less than under the income tax.

`SEC. 506. BURDEN OF PERSUASION AND BURDEN OF PRODUCTION.

`In all disputes concerning taxes imposed by this subtitle, the person engaged in a dispute with the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary, as the case may be, shall have the burden of production of documents and records but the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary shall have the burden of persuasion.

`SEC. 507. ATTORNEYS' AND ACCOUNTANCY FEES.


18 posted on 04/12/2006 11:30:37 AM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Zon
but the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary shall have the burden of persuasion.

You call that a protection???? It is not beyond a reasonable doubt, iit is simply a 'burden of persuasion'. That is a much much lower standard. They simply have to convince a judge you probably owe money.

19 posted on 04/12/2006 1:28:54 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: E Rocc

The flat tax laws could be used to justify this type of snooping too. Only the FairTax defangs the IRS and will tax all the illegals in our country. Can the flat tax catch and tax all of the illegals?


20 posted on 04/12/2006 1:32:09 PM PDT by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: Zon
the person engaged in a dispute with the sales tax administering authority or the Secretary, as the case may be, shall be entitled to reasonable attorneys' fees, accountancy fees, and other reasonable professional fees incurred in direct relation to the dispute

It is nice that they pay attorney's fees in some cases, but you not only have to win but show that the government was not substantially justified. Only slightly better than the current system in that reguard. Certainly not a major protection of your freedom.

21 posted on 04/12/2006 1:32:40 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Conservative Goddess
Only the FairTax defangs the IRS and will tax all the illegals in our country. Can the flat tax catch and tax all of the illegals?

It doesn't defang it at all. It renames it.

22 posted on 04/12/2006 1:33:37 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right
"Right now the only taxable transaction most individuals have to worry about is their wages."

Oh really? So the IRS doesn't get data on my interest, dividends, stock trades, retirement savings, mortgage, charitable giving, real estate taxes, education expenses, children, marital status? Don't most people have those transactions/issues?

Does the 4th amendment have any meaning whatsoever? The FairTax is the only tax reform proposal that will restore financial privacy, tax the illegals, and provide a level global playing field for US goods.

If the rate is too high, perhaps that simply means the SPENDING is too high???????
23 posted on 04/12/2006 1:39:06 PM PDT by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: Always Right

Really?

From the bill:

SEC. 301. PHASE-OUT OF ADMINISTRATION OF REPEALED FEDERAL TAXES.

(a) Appropriations- Appropriations for any expenses of the Internal Revenue Service including processing tax returns for years prior to the repeal of the taxes repealed by title I of this Act, revenue accounting, management, transfer of payroll and wage data to the Social Security Administration for years after fiscal year 2009 shall not be authorized.

(b) Records- Federal records related to the administration of taxes repealed by title I of this Act shall be destroyed by the end of fiscal year 2009, except that any records necessary to calculate Social Security benefits shall be retained by the Social Security Administration and any records necessary to support ongoing litigation with respect to taxes owed or refunds due shall be retained until final disposition of such litigation.

Defunding and destroying records isn't a defanging???? Hmmmm....what do you call it?


24 posted on 04/12/2006 1:45:49 PM PDT by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: Always Right
IRS requests PayPal Records in tax-evasion probe

You call that a protection???? It is not beyond a reasonable doubt, iit is simply a 'burden of persuasion'. That is a much much lower standard. They simply have to convince a judge you probably owe money.

Convince a judge that John Brown owes ten dollars and he'll tell you you're wasting the taxpayers money pursuing a frivolous amount.

The judge will quickly assess the situation: How much is the dollar amount the government agent claims the individual/person owes in sales tax? Is it less than $200 or more than $1,000? The judge knows that 80% of the taxes will be collected by major retailers. Is it worth the cost to go after the suspect against the risk of the government losing the case and having to pay the defendant's attorneys' fees, accountancy fees, and other reasonable professional fees incurred.

A smart and logical person would think that the government will concentrate it's policing powers first on retailers, next on black-market tax evaders and almost nothing on law abiding citizens. That said, you cheat, you deserve to pay the price.

Unlike the 60,000+ page tax code that the IRS can use to snare anyone it sets it's sights on harassing/abusing (IRS Abuse Reports), the FairTax has 132 pages which mostly applies to businesses, not individuals. The vast majority of individuals will pay the FairTax at the cash register, put the receipt in their pocket and that will be the end of their compliance. They'll happily walk out the door with their purchase tarnished only by feeling raped by the federal government.

The FairTax promotes liberty by abolishing the IRS, eliminates income taxes and withholding while calling for the repeal of the 16th amendment.

FairTax faq.

25 posted on 04/12/2006 2:07:53 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Always Right

It is nice that they pay attorney's fees in some cases, but you not only have to win but show that the government was not substantially justified. 

Addressing the court: Exhibit "A" is my clients receipt showing the sales tax paid for the new car he purchased. Exhibit "B" is my clients  receipt showing the sales tax paid for the new house he purchased. Exhibit "C" is my clients receipt showing the sales tax paid for the diamond broach he purchased. The government's charge against my client is a waste of valuable taxpayers money. My client exercises his right under Section 507 of the FairTax Act to be reimbursed for his cost incurred by this frivolously and unjustified charge against him.

The people that end up in tax court will be tax cheats, not law abiding citizens like in the above example. Tax cheats risk having to pay the price for their violations.

Only slightly better than the current system in that reguard. Certainly not a major protection of your freedom.

It's a thousand times better than the present system: IRS Abuse Reports

The vast majority of individuals will pay the FairTax at the cash register, put the receipt in their pocket and that will be the end of their compliance. They'll happily walk out the door with their purchase tarnished only by feeling raped by the federal government.

26 posted on 04/12/2006 2:29:21 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Conservative Goddess
Oh really? So the IRS doesn't get data on my interest, dividends, stock trades, retirement savings, mortgage, charitable giving, real estate taxes, education expenses, children, marital status? Don't most people have those transactions/issues?

No, most people just claim the standard deduction and use the short forms, so itemizing things like mortgages, charitible giving, real estate taxes, education expenses are moot.

27 posted on 04/12/2006 2:37:16 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right

NOT MOOT TO ME, and my clients. The vast majority of my clients itemize. You cannot dismiss the very real invasion of their privacy, under color of law, under color of right....that is a DIRECT violation of the 4th amendment.

NOT MOOT, not moot at all.


28 posted on 04/12/2006 2:39:22 PM PDT by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: Zon
The people that end up in tax court will be tax cheats, not law abiding citizens like in the above example.

People that end up in tax court are almost always tax cheats. Audits are another story as many honest taxpayers get audited. It really is not that huge of a protection unless it is a total fishing expedition that turns up nothing.

29 posted on 04/12/2006 2:41:29 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Conservative Goddess
The vast majority of my clients itemize.

Well you don't service the vast majority of people. Some 70% of filers use short forms.

30 posted on 04/12/2006 2:42:32 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Conservative Goddess
You cannot dismiss the very real invasion of their privacy, under color of law, under color of right....that is a DIRECT violation of the 4th amendment.

And the sales tax does nothing to stop those violations. All it takes for the Sale Tax police to ask for you to turn over all your receipts is a simple suspicion that you may owe tax. Where is the 4th Amendment protection there? There is none, so get off your high horse.

31 posted on 04/12/2006 2:45:29 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right

SO WHAT? Are our rights dependent on the number of people impacted? NO! They are rights. Period.

MOREOVER, when banks/brokerages/mortgage companies file their 1099's, 1098's....they do it en masse, and transmit it to the IRS. Whether the individual taxpayer itemizes or not, the IRS is possessed of the information....in direct violation of the 4th.

The Constitution CANNOT be amended by statute. The IRS, the income tax scheme is all extra-constitutional.


32 posted on 04/12/2006 2:47:03 PM PDT by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: Always Right
The receipt is the consumers only evidence that he has paid the tax and is required if the consumer does not want to pay tax on the item again

So where's the problem? I have EVERY receipt I have gotten for the last 3 years at home. Makes a damn good budget template when you start collating that data.

33 posted on 04/12/2006 2:47:33 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (Every man must be tempted, sometimes,to hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.)
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To: Zon
The vast majority of individuals will pay the FairTax at the cash register, put the receipt in their pocket and that will be the end of their compliance.

Well today the majority of people just earn their wages and that is the end of their compliance. Tehy have to file a tax form, but under the sales tax you must file to get your monthly family consumption allowance.

34 posted on 04/12/2006 2:49:40 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Conservative Goddess
The Constitution CANNOT be amended by statute. The IRS, the income tax scheme is all extra-constitutional.

As will the sales tax be. There will still be massive 4th Amendment violations under the sales tax. The government will still look into to every transaction. Any $2 Trillion tax collection scheme is going to violate the 4th Amendment. They can ask for anyone's financial papers for any reason.

35 posted on 04/12/2006 2:52:48 PM PDT by Always Right
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To: Always Right

 Audits are another story as many honest taxpayers get audited.

You're right, that's true under the present system. It won't be with the FairTax.

The number of persons audited under the FairTax will probably be less, perhaps much less than 10% those audited under the present system. And when a person is audited: "Here's my sales receipt showing the tax paid on the new car purchase. Good bye Mr. government employee, have a nice day."

It really is not that huge of a protection unless it is a total fishing expedition that turns up nothing.

"You want to see the receipt showing the sales tax paid? Here it is, have a nice day." People now live in fear of an IRS audit. They won't fear a FairTax audit because there will be so few of them and the remedy is so simple; just show the receipts. Forty-five states have a sales tax and I haven't heard of any consumer being audited for not paying the state sales tax.

You imply that a FairTax audit will be as common, as intrusive and abusive as IRS audits are now. They wont be. 

FairTax faq

36 posted on 04/12/2006 3:33:16 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Condor51

lol. Funny, in a sad reality sort of way...


37 posted on 04/12/2006 3:35:34 PM PDT by TADSLOS (Right Wing Infidel since 1954)
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To: Always Right

Well today the majority of people just earn their wages and that is the end of their compliance. Tehy [sic] have to file a tax form, but under the sales tax you must file to get your monthly family consumption allowance.

You're comparing the drudgery of doing a personal income tax return or paying to have H&R Block to do it for you to the FairTax simplicity of filling out an index card and sending it to the government! Which isn't even a requirement unless the person chose to receive the monthly prebate. There's a huge cost and time discrepancy! The current system requires much more time and money of the person than will the FairTax. You feign that you're too incompetent to recognize the difference. 

Plus this: With the FairTax each person will be reminded at the cash register how much money government spending is costing them.

38 posted on 04/12/2006 3:44:42 PM PDT by Zon (Honesty outlives the lie, spin and deception -- It always has -- It always will.)
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To: Always Right
INcorrect, as usual.

The sales tax is in complete harmony with the vision of the Founding Fathers.

Federalist No. 21:

"...It is a signal advantage of taxes on articles of consumption, that they contain in their own nature a security against excess. They prescribe their own limit; which cannot be exceeded without defeating the end proposed, that is, an extension of the revenue. When applied to this object, the saying is as just as it is witty, that, ``in political arithmetic, two and two do not always make four.'' If duties are too high, they lessen the consumption; the collection is eluded; and the product to the treasury is not so great as when they are confined within proper and moderate bounds. This forms a complete barrier against any material oppression of the citizens by taxes of this class, and is itself a natural limitation of the power of imposing them.

Impositions of this kind usually fall under the denomination of indirect taxes, and must for a long time constitute the chief part of the revenue raised in this country."
39 posted on 04/12/2006 5:28:53 PM PDT by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: Always Right

So, what's your interest in preserving the status quo????

Tax preparer? Software purveyor? Researcher Software purveyor? Lobbyist? How does the current monstrosity line your pockets??????


40 posted on 04/12/2006 5:31:45 PM PDT by Conservative Goddess (Politiae legibus, non leges politiis, adaptandae)
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To: Conservative Goddess

He got his feelings hurt long ago and this is personal to him. He will tell you he thinks eliminating the income tax will be bad for his business - residential home construction.... really, he'll say that.


41 posted on 04/12/2006 7:14:09 PM PDT by Principled
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To: Always Right

He has it taxed presently when he buys stuff Rightie ... we've been through this many times and you still won't believe that it's true.

There are tax costs embedded in everything you buy at present - hidden, but there, adding nothing but additional useless, non-productive cost.


42 posted on 04/12/2006 8:49:46 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Always Right

Each of your points in this post is wrong - and that's been pointed out to you several times.


43 posted on 04/12/2006 8:52:00 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Always Right

Wrong here, too, Rightie.


44 posted on 04/12/2006 8:52:56 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Always Right

That's not a "simple reading", but a simple-minded one by a person horribly biased against anything that changes his present tax evasion techniques.


45 posted on 04/12/2006 8:54:47 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: Always Right

You've obviously managed to steer yourself away from any serious IRS invasions of privacy in your business as presently YOU are the guilty one no matter what they claim unless you can prove otherwise.

And good luch going to Tax Court (where they try to push you for intimidation) since the entry fee there is quite high in many states ... and it's not recoverable even if you win.


46 posted on 04/12/2006 8:58:14 PM PDT by pigdog
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To: pigdog
Wrong here, too, Rightie.

There you go again piggie. Spamming me with a bunch of asinine posts that say absolutely nothing. You can't refute with a real arguement so you just spam. You are nothing but a one-issue shill.

47 posted on 04/13/2006 4:16:58 AM PDT by Always Right
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To: theBuckwheat

HACKS IN WASHINGTON DC:

How about a tax AMNESTY! You are always pimping for an illegal alien amnesty. How about something for US citizens?


48 posted on 04/13/2006 4:20:50 AM PDT by dennisw (If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles-Sun Tzu)
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To: Condor51
Who is more likely to be audited and potentially arrested or financially penalized for tax evasion?

1) A hard working citizen who makes a living selling things on E-Bay. Files both federal and state tax returns.

2) Illegal alien who is paid cash and never files a tax return.

Sadly, the honest citizen is much more at risk from both federal and state "revenuers." Among many other reasons, this is another mighty strong reason to go with the Fair Tax.
49 posted on 04/13/2006 4:31:11 AM PDT by IamConservative (Who does not trust a man of principle? A man who has none.)
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To: Always Right

I am also in the personal position of having saved all my life and now living off my investments. The Fair Tax would amount to double taxation for people like me.

Are we now in the position that we must continue with this horrid system of taxation year after year because we cannot bear the cost of making the transition? This is like the person who is spending $1000 per month on car repairs because he cannot bear the thought of buying a new car for $20,000.

With this mentality, we will pass this system on to our grandchildren. We are living with a legal and financial legacy that was imposed on us by persons long dead who could not bring themselves to do the right thing. If there is any increased tax burden to certain retirees, these can be somewhat mitigated in the transition law.


50 posted on 04/13/2006 4:48:13 AM PDT by theBuckwheat
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