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In Search of Chivalry Did it sink with the Titanic?
National Review Online ^ | April 13, 2006 | Carrie Lukas

Posted on 04/13/2006 11:55:44 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds

Imagine a luxury liner sinking into artic waters with too few lifeboats for its passengers. Who would get those seats?

When the Titanic sank on April 15, 1912, the answer was obvious: women and children had first priority. Why was this? Certainly, the male passengers could have over-powered most of the women and saved their own lives. What kept them from doing so?

Chivalry. The idea that part of being a man (and certainly part of being a gentleman) is to sacrifice willingly to protect those who are more vulnerable. Of course, all those aboard the Titanic were equally vulnerable to the near freezing water. The men who gave their seats in the lifeboats gave their lives. Out of all of the Titanic's passengers, 74 percent of women lived while 80 percent of the men died.

Christina Hoff Sommers began her review of Harvey Mansfield's new book Manliness by reminding readers of the memorial erected by women in 1931 to honor those men on the Titanic. The memorial's inscription reads: "To the brave men who perished in the wreck of the Titanic. . . . They gave their lives that women and children might be saved." As Sommers suggests, this overlooked memorial is a fitting symbol of the state of chivalry or even of manliness today:

"...almost no one remembers those men. Women no longer bring flowers to the statue on April 15 to honor their chivalry. The idea of male gallantry makes many women nervous, suggesting (as it does) that women require special protection. It implies the sexes are objectively different. It tells us that some things are best left to men. Gallantry is a virtue that dare not speak its name."

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: chivalry; feminism; manners; men; titanic
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The growing issue of manliness, gallantry, good manners and feminists. A good read, IMHO.
1 posted on 04/13/2006 11:55:46 AM PDT by ReleaseTheHounds
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

One word...Feminism


2 posted on 04/13/2006 11:57:43 AM PDT by Vision ("There are no limits to growth because there are no limits of human intelligence" Ronald Reagan)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
What a terrible disaster it would be today if such an ocean liner were to get into the same kind of trouble!!!

Both the men and women would be fighting each other tooth and nail NOT to board any of the lifeboats!

Screaming...throwing of things....claims of "passenger abuse"....crew and kids being trampled underfoot....!!

"I'm much more macho-ette....er...womanman....er.... manfem...than you ever could be!!"

Ship sinks with all hands...all kids....and all men and women long since dead after fighting with each other!

3 posted on 04/13/2006 12:02:59 PM PDT by LilDarlin (Being very feminine got me this far; it will take me the rest of the way, too!)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
When no man on a crowded bus rises to offer me his seat, I do nothing. As far as I'm concerned, we brought it on ourselves by allowing radical extremist feminists to attack and severely damage the culture of chivalry in this country.

When a man does offer me his seat, open a door for me, etc., he gets my sweetest smile and grateful thanks.

4 posted on 04/13/2006 12:03:49 PM PDT by American Quilter
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
Well, on the one hand chivalry resulted in nearly all of the men on the Titanic dying. On the other hand, one of 'em was Leo...
5 posted on 04/13/2006 12:04:11 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: Billthedrill
I thought most FReepers DIDN'T beleive a thing Holly-wierd every portrayed.

Or did you forget to add something after your post?

6 posted on 04/13/2006 12:07:06 PM PDT by ExcursionGuy84 ("Jesus, Your Love takes my breath away.")
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To: American Quilter

You, are a true lady.

My mother would have beaten me senseless if she ever caught me doing something like this. So, in this day of age, I still do these things because it's part of my character. Plus, it allows me to see what a real woman is on occasion.


7 posted on 04/13/2006 12:07:42 PM PDT by MadeInAmerica (- If ILLEGAL means Undocumented - Then Breaking and Entering means Unannounced Visit)
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To: LilDarlin

I was cruising HBO and ran across "Rosie O'Donnell's Caribbean Cruise." Since it was mostly (or exclusively) gay men and women (and their children), how would chivalry work? Lesbians and kids in the lifeboats with gay men drowning?

I wouldn't want to wrestle Rosie for a lifeboat seat!


8 posted on 04/13/2006 12:08:44 PM PDT by whitedog57 (Holland)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
Chivalry is not dead, it has only been temporarily forgotten.

Men like me will pass it on to my grandsons and it will not die.

9 posted on 04/13/2006 12:11:08 PM PDT by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: Vision

Pretty much,

I used to say "yes ma'am", but two weeks in NY, and about a 100 "don't call me ma'am"s later i stopped.


10 posted on 04/13/2006 12:11:27 PM PDT by tfecw (It's for the children)
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To: American Quilter

I wonder if the stories of men being chewed out for holding a door or offering a seat to a woman are true. I've been doing so for going on 40 years now whenever I get the chance, all over the US, and have never had a female react in this manner.

Some just ignore me, but that's another issue. :)


11 posted on 04/13/2006 12:11:40 PM PDT by Restorer
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To: MadeInAmerica
"My mother would have beaten me senseless if she ever caught me doing something like this."

My father would have beaten me senseless if I refused to yield a bus or subway seat to a lady. I always keep in mind that if my father knew that I failed to surrender that seat, I would be left unable to use it anyways....;-)

12 posted on 04/13/2006 12:15:08 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

Chivalry died in men when "ladies"died in women!The women's movement made chivalry obsolete and taking a man to the cleaners standard operating procedure.


13 posted on 04/13/2006 12:15:41 PM PDT by INSENSITIVE GUY
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

Good post.

Only being in my early 40's, I always call men "Sir", and women "M'am". I've had some women object to this, one even going so far as saying "What did you call me?", witha tone of indignation.

Still manage to take my cover off when enterting a building and wearing when outside. Habit, I suppose...


14 posted on 04/13/2006 12:16:04 PM PDT by Fury
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To: Restorer

I once offered my seat on a crowded F Train to a VERY pregnant lady. She glared at me, and said, "Do you think I NEED it???" That was the only time I ever got a reaction like that. Usually, it's an amazed look.

LC


15 posted on 04/13/2006 12:18:30 PM PDT by LoneConservative (PEACE... Through SUPERIOR FIREPOWER!!!)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds; Constitution Day; Tax-chick
Imagine a luxury liner sinking into artic waters

Chivalry died along with spelling lessons.

16 posted on 04/13/2006 12:22:28 PM PDT by martin_fierro (< |:)~)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
I have no problem holding the door open for women, giving up my seat on public transportation for those who need it, etc. I do the same for everyone, regardless of gender.

But give up my life for some strange woman simply because she's a woman? Not going to happen - not even if she guarantees to take care of my wife, my kids and my mom, which she won't.
17 posted on 04/13/2006 12:22:47 PM PDT by AnotherUnixGeek
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

http://www.pottsoft.com/home/titanic/womens_memorial.html

Titanic Women's Memorial, Washington D.C., U.S.A.

The inscription on the Titanic Women's Memorial reads:

To The Brave Men
Who Perished
In The Wreck
of The Titanic,
April 15, 1912.
They Gave Their
Lives That Women
and Children
Might Be Saved.

Erected By
The Women
Of America.

The unveiling was performed by President Taft and his wife in 1931. People often assume that the memorial is to the women who perished on the Titanic, but if you read the inscription this makes it plain that it is to the men. Women in America raised the money and organized the building of the monument.

Titanic Women's Memorial © Steve Perez


18 posted on 04/13/2006 12:23:28 PM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: martin_fierro

Too true.


19 posted on 04/13/2006 12:24:15 PM PDT by Tax-chick ("Life is too short to drink bad wine." ~ The Captain)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds


Titanic Women's Memorial, Washington D.C., U.S.A.
20 posted on 04/13/2006 12:25:04 PM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: tfecw
I used to say "yes ma'am", but two weeks in NY, and about a 100 "don't call me ma'am"s later i stopped.

Not to defend rudeness, but sometimes women don't like being called "ma'am" because it makes them feel old. Plus, oftentimes female salesclerks are snotty to female customers by saying "ma'am" in a condescending tone. Like a female standup comedian once said, "We women know what 'ma'am' really means. It means the 'B' word." Not really, but sometimes salesclerks make us feel that way.

Anyway, you're a gentleman, and none of this is your fault. But try saying "yes, Miss." I bet you'll get a sweeter response. :-)

21 posted on 04/13/2006 12:26:14 PM PDT by Nea Wood (Is cheap, illegal labor worth one life?)
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To: Fury
I've been pretty lucky, always had men open the door or carry heavy stuff, the usual things a gentlemen does. I very much appreciate the effort when a man does it knowing he took the risk of being cussed out by a rabid feminist.

I'm in my early 40's and have always said ma'am and sir to people I am talking with out of respect.

For you men, we ain't all against being treated like a woman. Don't give in to the feminists who don't speak for all women.
22 posted on 04/13/2006 12:27:01 PM PDT by SouthernFreebird
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To: martin_fierro

So true. You'd think people would bother to use spell check.


23 posted on 04/13/2006 12:27:30 PM PDT by Constitution Day (Comicalness Don't Win No Medals)
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To: Just another Joe

Reports of chivalry's demise are greatly exaggerated.


24 posted on 04/13/2006 12:27:48 PM PDT by dmz
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
Please note the Author of Chivalry:
25 posted on 04/13/2006 12:29:31 PM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: Billthedrill
Well, on the one hand chivalry resulted in nearly all of the men on the Titanic dying. On the other hand, one of 'em was Leo...

Seeing Dicrappio die a slow, agonizing death was one of the great moments in cinema history.

When the tape was brought home by my daughter it took me a good 3 or 4 minutes to fast foward to that scene ... it was time well spent.

26 posted on 04/13/2006 12:29:49 PM PDT by tx_eggman (Islamofascism ... bringing you the best of the 7th century for the past 1300 years.)
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To: Nea Wood

"Not to defend rudeness, but sometimes women don't like being called "ma'am" because it makes them feel old. "

Yeah, that's what they told me. My response was either "Sorry, I'm an army brat" or "Sorry, I'm from Texas" Either way i would get the "you poor thing" look ;)


27 posted on 04/13/2006 12:29:49 PM PDT by tfecw (It's for the children)
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To: American Quilter

When I've seen pregnant women on the metro, I offer them my seat than glare at the men reading their papers and pretending not to notice. If a man wants to be a man, he can still choose to be.

btw, my man opens my doors and helps me with my coat and I love it!


28 posted on 04/13/2006 12:29:52 PM PDT by New Girl
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

Simple fact about the Titanic: More First Class men survived than Third Class children.


29 posted on 04/13/2006 12:30:08 PM PDT by Heyworth
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
Not all males are men and not all women are feminazis. I prefer to stay "old-fashioned" and show women respect and courtesy, and open doors, and even offer up "my" seat that a woman might sit. I figure that if I'm not willing to act as I think a man should act, I don't give the women out there that aren't ashamed to be women, a chance to be women. I've been sneered at and ridiculed by some of the women I have offered courtesies to, but I find it sadly amusing more than anything else. If I stop being me because others won't be as I would have them be, I am a traitor to myself.

Same goes for politics - I will not be a part of making the Dims' hunger for power easier to be satisfied just because the Repubs in office refuse to be "men" enough to act like what they claim to be.

30 posted on 04/13/2006 12:30:43 PM PDT by trebb ("I am the way... no one comes to the Father, but by me..." - Jesus in John 14:6 (RSV))
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To: Restorer
I wonder if the stories of men being chewed out for holding a door or offering a seat to a woman are true.

Unfortunately there are such women. I saw many such instances in my college years, when young women who didn't know any better fell prey to feminist philosophies. Some of them have never gotten their thinking straightened out enough to understand their error. But I hope their numbers are decreasing as they mature and learn to think.

31 posted on 04/13/2006 12:32:33 PM PDT by American Quilter
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To: Vision

Yup; feminism.

I'll help my girlfriend and my mother and sisters.

Women want equality right up until it's inconvenient for them.

They have the right to carry their own heavy bags, open their own doors, and drown, too.


32 posted on 04/13/2006 12:33:16 PM PDT by Beauceron
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To: ReleaseTheHounds
The idea of male gallantry makes many women nervous, suggesting (as it does) that women require special protection. It implies the sexes are objectively different. It tells us that some things are best left to men.

Men and women are different and if society would start acting that way, we'd get back on track. Of course men are stronger and better at certain tasks; however, women are more nurturing. The differences between men and women are not only real, they are necessary.

33 posted on 04/13/2006 12:35:40 PM PDT by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
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To: Heyworth

I wondered about that myself, and here's an interesting page:

http://www.anesi.com/titanic.htm

Sex actually was more of a determinant than class in survival.


34 posted on 04/13/2006 12:38:44 PM PDT by linda_22003
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To: Nea Wood
Anyway, you're a gentleman, and none of this is your fault. But try saying "yes, Miss." I bet you'll get a sweeter response. :-)

Only if the lady is unmarried and younger than, say, 25, or if the gentleman is at least 75! Once a lady is married or out of her mid-20s, she should, in my opinion, be pleased at achieving adult status and expect to be granted the title she merits. Any gentleman younger than 75 who addresses me as "Miss" gets a very polite, "Thank you, young man" in reply!

35 posted on 04/13/2006 12:39:27 PM PDT by American Quilter
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To: American Quilter

I have had women wag their fingers at me for opening doors for them. Also, giving up my seat on the Washington Metro. That brand of feminism doesn't even allow for civility.


36 posted on 04/13/2006 12:39:56 PM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: American Quilter
Once a lady is married or out of her mid-20s, she should, in my opinion, be pleased at achieving adult status and expect to be granted the title she merits.

They should, but they don't. Many women get depressed when, around a certain age, the "Miss" changes to "Ma'am." It's kind of a depressing moment for many of us, like finding the first wrinkle or gray hair.

37 posted on 04/13/2006 12:45:39 PM PDT by Nea Wood (Is cheap, illegal labor worth one life?)
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To: GeorgefromGeorgia
I have had women wag their fingers at me for opening doors for them. Also, giving up my seat on the Washington Metro. That brand of feminism doesn't even allow for civility.

It's a tribute to you (and your parents) that you continue to be a gentleman when you may at any time be confronted by a woman who is not a lady. I'm grateful to all the gentlemen out there like you.

38 posted on 04/13/2006 12:47:52 PM PDT by American Quilter
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To: tfecw

My reply to the request "don't call me ma'am" is always "yes ma'am." Kill 'em with kindness.


39 posted on 04/13/2006 12:54:31 PM PDT by ExpatGator (Progressivism: A polyp on the colon politic.)
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To: Nea Wood
My wife has no issues being called Ma'am. Of course she started being called Ma'am at 22 when she pinned on the butter bar of a 2nd Lt. in the USAF.
40 posted on 04/13/2006 12:55:36 PM PDT by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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To: Nea Wood
They should, but they don't. Many women get depressed when, around a certain age, the "Miss" changes to "Ma'am." It's kind of a depressing moment for many of us, like finding the first wrinkle or gray hair.

It is too bad, isn't it? I certainly agree that it's upsetting to realize one has passed the peak of one's physical beauty. Being quite nearsighted, I once thought for two years that the sun was lightening some of the strands of my hair. Then one day I happended to look into a mirror with my glasses on and got a terrible shock. I took to my bed with a box of Kleenex and a pint of chocolate-chip ice cream (calories don't count when you're crying).

41 posted on 04/13/2006 12:56:02 PM PDT by American Quilter
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To: American Quilter

Thank you. Such civility is still common down South.


42 posted on 04/13/2006 12:56:32 PM PDT by GeorgefromGeorgia
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To: ExpatGator
My reply to the request "don't call me ma'am" is always "yes ma'am." Kill 'em with kindness.

LOL!

43 posted on 04/13/2006 12:57:55 PM PDT by American Quilter
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To: LoneConservative

All you dear men who keep chivalry alive..bless you. There are still plenty of us ol' gals who love being a woman and appreciate the gestures and manners and will reward you all with our brightest, sweetest smile, slight nod of the head, and a thank you.


44 posted on 04/13/2006 1:04:19 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (Buy Danish!)
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To: ExpatGator

There is something about a southern gentleman saying 'Yes, Ma'am' that just melts my bones. Especially if it is a Texan. Call me old fashioned.


45 posted on 04/13/2006 1:09:17 PM PDT by Conservative4Ever (Buy Danish!)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

My father was the personification of manliness, chivalry, and the manly virtues. Come to think of it--so is my son.


46 posted on 04/13/2006 1:09:40 PM PDT by Savage Beast (9/11 was never repeated--thanks to President Bush and his surveillance program.)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

Perhaps there are those women who truly do appreciate these things. If there are, I've not seen many. I will never cease my quiet courtesies, and should a woman snap at me for them ,as has often been the case, I will continue all the more stridently to remain chivalrous.

I am not a big, burly man by any stretch, but I know common courtesy when I see it. It's saddening to see lovely women who stand by the men they are with even when those men treat them like chattle. These women eat it up and I have NO idea why.

Is chivalry dead? No. Do nice guys finish last? In my experience, yes. In my specific history, always. Regardless it is who I am and who I shall remain come what may.


47 posted on 04/13/2006 1:18:15 PM PDT by Romish_Papist (St. Jude, pray for my lost cause. St. Rita, pray for my impossible situation.)
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To: ReleaseTheHounds

Once in New York City - in Chinatown - I saw a Policewoman, hands full with cups of coffee, heading for her patrol car. I was right there, so, naturally, I opened the door for her. She looked at me - shock and suprise in her face. She knew instantly: I was a tourist.


48 posted on 04/13/2006 1:19:52 PM PDT by captain_dave
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To: LoneConservative
My one-time boss had to take the subway while 9 months along and couldn't get anyone, male or female, to give up a seat. She wouldn't have glared. Hell, she probably would've named her son after you :)

I personally don't think a man should have to give up his seat to an able-bodied woman, but I can't imagine anyone getting put out by a display of courtesy. And it goes without saying that everyone should give up a seat for the elderly or infirm.

49 posted on 04/13/2006 1:22:30 PM PDT by Mordacious
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To: Mordacious

In this day and age women want to be men fine....don't give up your seat because we would not wish to offend


50 posted on 04/13/2006 1:25:49 PM PDT by Darth Malice
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