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THE KEY WORD HERE IS ILLEGAL
Sierra Times ^ | 4/14/2006 | Al Benson, Jr.

Posted on 04/14/2006 5:56:46 AM PDT by FerdieMurphy

I always love reading articles by Walter Williams, well-known professor of economics. He has a succinct way of avoiding a lot of verbal claptrap and cutting right to the chase.

In a recent column on illegal immigration he wrote: "At the heart of today's immigration problem is its illegality. According to several estimates there are 11 million people who are in our country illegally, mostly from Mexico...First, there's the refusal to call these people 'illegal aliens.' The politicallY preferred term is 'undocumented workers,' which is nothing less than verbal sleight-of-hand." Professor Williams also mentions his colleague, Thomas Sowell, who refers to the illegal aliens as "gate-crashers" at a party they were not invited to. I'm sure, at this point, someone will rise to accuse both Williams and Sowell, who are black, of being racist because they oppose illegal immigration.

Here in Louisiana, I talk to folks about this issue quite often. The folks I get to talk with are all working folks--I don't have any friends among the elite set. The prevailing majority of folks here that I talk to, both black and white, is opposed to what is currently going on and they are quite strong in their sentiment that we ought to ship these illegals back to Mexico, or wherever they came from. I suppose that makes all of us, blacks and whites, guilty of racism. After all, what do we know. All we do is work to pay the taxes for all this foolishness.

I watched this past weekend as Congress grappled with the illegals question and could come up with no concrete solution. And, as their dicussions broke down, almost as if one cue, the protests in several cities almost immediately cranked up (spontaneously of course) and we were again treated to hundreds of thousands (so the media tells us) of illegals marching in the streets again--this time carrying American flags mostly instead of Mexican flags, which tactic seemed to backfire on them in previous protests. It's just simply amazing how these folks in so many different cities just seem to all end up using the same identical tactics no matter where they are. You don't suppose all of these protests are being coordinated from one place or group do you--naw, that could never happen. Why these demonstrations are all spontaneous, all separate, no relationship to one another--just like the demonstrations during the Viet Nam era were, right?

Well, not quite. As it turns out there is just the slightest hint of Leftist penetration into these protests--just the slightest, mind you. According to an article in the "Washington Times" by Jerry Seper: "One of the key organizers of the immigration protests and rallies nationwide, including yesterday's in Washington, is a group whose leaders are tied to the Workers World Party www.workers.org, a Marxist organization that has expressed support for dictators Kim Jong-il of North Korea and Saddam Hussein of Iraq." Well, imagine that! Who would've thunk it? Surely Marxist involvement in these protests has to be the sheerest of coincidences, right? And the sun may rise in the West tommorrow, too.

And not only are the illegals and their supporters and mentors demonstrating, they are also threatening. In both Dallas, Texas and in North Carolina, some immigrant groups called for an economic boycott to display their financial muscle. Question--if these folks are so well off that they can threaten the U. S. with an economic boycott, then why didn't they do the same thing when they were all still in Mexico, the country responsible for many of their problems? Why did they wait until millions of them are here illegally to pull such a stunt in this country?

And to top it all off, in Jackson, Mississippi, they sang "We Shall Overcome" in Spanish. How touching!

But through all this Mickey Mouse fluff that is being dished out to the public, both from the media and from our august Congresspersons, let us not lose sight of the plain fact, and let us not let our Congresscritters forget, that these people are here illegally. They are here demonstrating for non-existent rights, rights they don't have in this country, rights they shouldn't have in this country until they get themselves back home and apply to come in legally.

This entire illegal immigrant scenario resembles little more than an invasion--a cultural invasion of this country, with the central idea in mind of changing our culture to one that suits them, not those of us who were born here. And, if enough of these folks end up here so that they eventually turn this country in a "Little Mexico" like the one they supposedly came up here to get away from, then what border will they cross after the United States has embraced their variety of Mexican socialism?

Years ago, an astute political observer noted that if you really wanted to find out who was responsible for something you had to "follow the money." It would be interesting to know who is paying for all these demonstrations and for those people who are organizing and running them. These people are not doing this for nothing. And although the Marxists are most definitely involved, they are not on the top rung of the ladder. Someone above them is pulling the strings that make everybody dance--and demonstrate!


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Government; Mexico; Politics/Elections; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: crime; criminalsfrommexico; deportation; foxsgifttousa; fruitpickers; illegal; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; immigrationlist; mexicans; mexico; pinchesgabachos; porkrinds; vincentefox; wetbacks
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...Williams also mentions his colleague, Thomas Sowell, who refers to the illegal aliens as "gate-crashers" at a party they were not invited to.

And what nation's leaders, in their right minds, would allow a flow of illiterate human debris from a third-world country like Mexico to dilute the national IQ and add to the burgeoning welfare case loads?

Only in America!

Our political class is collectively stupid.

1 posted on 04/14/2006 5:56:48 AM PDT by FerdieMurphy
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To: FerdieMurphy

Not stupid. Beholden to speical interests. Their biggest campaign donors want cheap labor. Game over.


2 posted on 04/14/2006 6:01:03 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: FerdieMurphy


And then we have idiots like this guy:

Florida councilman won't swear support for US

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=domesticNews&storyid=2006-04-14T001519Z_01_N4D277957_RTRUKOC_0_US-VILLAGE.xml&rpc=22


3 posted on 04/14/2006 6:04:13 AM PDT by dcnd9
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To: FerdieMurphy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DHMxeXOgR8&search=illegal%20immigration


4 posted on 04/14/2006 6:05:13 AM PDT by Ladycalif (She is too fond of books, and it has turned her brain. -- Louisa May Alcott)
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To: FerdieMurphy; All
I have been psuedo-blogging, for years, a couple of the elements in WWIV ( III being the Cold War ), in which we find ourselves engaged.

The first element?

Islam, a Religion of Peace®? ( links, blogs, quips, quotes, aggravating pictures ) is located here- click the Pic, and scroll backwards:

The other, somewhat interlocking element is this one:

"Thunder on the Border," click the picture:



What is happening under the radar is that the alien lobby, certain elements of radical Islam, and some on the Left share common goals, tactics, and exploitations of our system and society.

Not a conspiracy, but rather a "coming together on common points."

5 posted on 04/14/2006 6:06:21 AM PDT by backhoe (The Silence of the Tom's ( Tired Old Media... ))
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To: Wolfie
Their biggest campaign donors want cheap labor. Game over.

The prostitutes in DC are between a rock and a hard place. All the donor money in the world doesn't mean jack without our votes.
6 posted on 04/14/2006 6:11:10 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Never a minigun handy when you need one.)
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To: FerdieMurphy

How many Mexicans will come across the border illegally today? One hundred? Are they coming in by the thousands per month while America sleeps, or not? Anybody know the answer?
I suspect that the U.S. Gov't is still totally ineffective at stopping the illegals, but I don't really know.


7 posted on 04/14/2006 6:14:30 AM PDT by pleikumud
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To: FerdieMurphy
One of the key organizers of the immigration protests and rallies nationwide, including yesterday's in Washington, is a group whose leaders are tied to the Workers World Party www.workers.org, a Marxist organization... Surely Marxist involvement in these protests has to be the sheerest of coincidences, right?

Communism can't get a foot hold in a wealthy nation, so they have to destroy our economy. Once people are left destitute then the Commies can move in and tell people that they are the victim of Capitalism and only the Socialist care enough to help.

It is the only tactic that the left has. Make people, whether real or imagined, victims and then come in with a nanny state.
8 posted on 04/14/2006 6:17:46 AM PDT by redheadtoo
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To: Wolfie

Illegals won't do time for any crime.

They can threaten to shut down our ports (the loud screaming we want cheap labor overcomes the fact of the threats)

They can flaunt defiantly the fact they can do whatever they da*n want by obscene mass of humanity taking over our streets as often as they want to (the loud screaming we want cheap labor overcomes the fact of marxist, communist, socialist groups supporting their demonstrations)


We must be heard over the loud screaming for cheap labor!


9 posted on 04/14/2006 6:20:19 AM PDT by stopem (Happy Easter, He Has Risen! Allelujia!)
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To: cripplecreek

Realistically speaking, they're not at risk. The incumbents have a huge advantage over any challenger. Sure, some shuffling around may occur, but the vast majority will be re-elected. Voters may sit out or vote third party, but that won't change much.


10 posted on 04/14/2006 6:21:20 AM PDT by Wolfie
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To: FerdieMurphy

The illegal lobby has done a great job at blurring the lines between illegal and legal immigration. I know a lot of smart people (formerly perceived as smart) who say "well your ancestors immigrated here". My answer to that is " I take that as an insult to my ancestors who went through Ellis Island". I think a lot of people look at the poor little Mexicans doing their landscaping and feel sorry for them without thinking about the implications.


11 posted on 04/14/2006 6:24:19 AM PDT by muslims=borg (You don't own property in New Jersey; you rent it from your local school board.)
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To: pleikumud

One of the best ways of stopping this "invasion" is; Tighten up the borders, employers, not hire these people, if an employer does, give that company a substantial fine.
Al Benson is right, follow the money. These people will not stay if there is no money for them.


12 posted on 04/14/2006 6:30:12 AM PDT by tillacum
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To: FerdieMurphy
" ... These people are not doing this for nothing. And although the Marxists are most definitely involved, they are not on the top rung of the ladder. Someone above them is pulling the strings that make everybody dance--and demonstrate!"


Just how long will it be before some Einstein comes along and discovers that the world is full of countries that despise the United States and want us crushed like a bug?

How long will it take for Americans to realize the the Democrat Party and the Rino's are complicit with the enemies of these United States in aiding and abetting in our destruction?


I assume it will be just long enough for the lot of US to be marched off to the internment camps where we will all look at each other and say ... "How did this happen?"




13 posted on 04/14/2006 6:30:18 AM PDT by G.Mason (Bye-bye Miss American Dream ... Drove my Chevy to the levy and I got my clock cleaned ...)
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To: muslims=borg
"well your ancestors immigrated here"

I just point out that mine did not immigrate, they invaded and merely killed off opposition so that future generations could get fat and happy and lose all common sense.
14 posted on 04/14/2006 6:32:41 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: FerdieMurphy
Yeah ... what is it about the term 'illegal' as in 'illegal immigrant' that Washington can't grasp?
To quote a fellow conservative 'Illegal ain't a sick eagle'!
15 posted on 04/14/2006 6:32:59 AM PDT by BluH2o
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To: FerdieMurphy
Suppose the article is correct, and the key word here is "illegal."

Now suppose Congress waves its magic wand and says: "it's no longer illegal."

What, in that case, would be Williams' complaint?

(Your bigoted complaint, OTOH, needs to be pointed out and rejected out of hand.)

16 posted on 04/14/2006 6:33:22 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: muslims=borg
The illegal lobby has done a great job at blurring the lines between illegal and legal immigration.

To focus on the word "illegal" is ridiculous, however, and for some folks, also dishonest. The same people who will pile on to that word in this thread will foam at the mouth over any suggestion that Congress (which has the power to decide the definition of "illegal") will simply make border-crossing legal, via amnesty or some other means.

I don't think the word "illegal" has much at all to do with this debate.

17 posted on 04/14/2006 6:36:29 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: P-40

Yes...the rights of conquest...I guess thats what the Mexicans are using now except in a more subversive way.


18 posted on 04/14/2006 6:41:03 AM PDT by muslims=borg (You don't own property in New Jersey; you rent it from your local school board.)
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To: r9etb
I don't think the word "illegal" has much at all to do with this debate.

Illegal immigration is what the debate is about. If the government were to repeat 1986 and declare the illegal to be legal...that is a different argument altogether.
19 posted on 04/14/2006 6:50:41 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: r9etb
"I don't think the word "illegal" has much at all to do with this debate."

Why not?? They are here in contravention of our laws. What other word would you use to describe it???

20 posted on 04/14/2006 6:52:38 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: P-40
If the government were to repeat 1986 and declare the illegal to be legal...that is a different argument altogether.

And you've seen the mouth-foaming that results from the mere hint that such an "amnesty" might be offered. So it's clearly not a matter of mere "illegality" for some of the folks who post extensively on this topic.

21 posted on 04/14/2006 6:54:33 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Wonder Warthog
Why not?? They are here in contravention of our laws. What other word would you use to describe it???

Oh, I don't dispute that they're crossing illegally, according to current laws.

I'm suggesting, rather, that some folks aren't really all that concerned with its illegality except as a convenience -- they oppose the border-crossers for other reasons (with some reasons being better than others).

22 posted on 04/14/2006 6:56:25 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
And you've seen the mouth-foaming that results from the mere hint that such an "amnesty" might be offered.

Because offering immunity to illegals already here without doing anything regarding the open border is an incredibly stupid thing to do. If someone has even an ounce of common sense, the current amnesty plans would make them angry.
23 posted on 04/14/2006 7:00:24 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: r9etb
they oppose the border-crossers for other reasons

The old "they must be racists" argument. Yes, there is some of that. There are more people who are just tired of paying for the services these illegals consume just so businesses get "cheap" labor and the ruling elite in Mexico stay in business.
24 posted on 04/14/2006 7:03:56 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: r9etb
The word "amnesty" is being spun as much as the word "illegal".

LaRaza argues "how can it be amnesty if they are required to pay a fine?", etc.

IOW's "amnesty, by it's true definition," would mean that ALL is forgiven, unconditionally. (spin, spin, spin).

25 posted on 04/14/2006 7:04:45 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: P-40
The old "they must be racists" argument. Yes, there is some of that.

Let's be honest: there is a lot of that.

But as you point out there are other reasons to oppose it as well.

26 posted on 04/14/2006 7:07:35 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: P-40
Because offering immunity to illegals already here without doing anything regarding the open border is an incredibly stupid thing to do. If someone has even an ounce of common sense, the current amnesty plans would make them angry.

Why?

Understand that I have my own opinions on the matter -- I'm just trying to get you to come right out and say what you mean.

It's only by getting the real complaints and problems out in the open that we can begin thinking about ways of fixing the problem.

27 posted on 04/14/2006 7:09:51 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: FerdieMurphy


28 posted on 04/14/2006 7:10:56 AM PDT by pookie18 ([Hillary Rotten] Clinton Happens...as does Dr. Demento Dean, Bela Pelosi & Benedick Durbin!!)
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To: spectre
The word "amnesty" is being spun as much as the word "illegal".

That is because it would be amnesty for illegals. I would not waste any time reading la raza.

The Hispanic population here is not thrilled with all the illegal immigration. Are they "racists?"
29 posted on 04/14/2006 7:11:08 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: r9etb
I'm just trying to get you to come right out and say what you mean.

What in the world are you talking about? And get what out in the open? And we already have ways to fix the problem.
30 posted on 04/14/2006 7:13:15 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: spectre
The word "amnesty" is being spun as much as the word "illegal".

True enough. But I think both words are being used as a means of avoiding any real analysis of the problems posed by the border crossers.

There are real problems -- illegals can impose welfare costs, for example.

And there are non-problems, too: It Mexicans are willing to work crops for a lot less than Americans will (if they will at all) -- and who cares?

The terms of the debate are hiding the real issues here. The problem can't be solved until those issues are brought into the light, and honestly discussed.

31 posted on 04/14/2006 7:17:11 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: P-40
What in the world are you talking about? And get what out in the open? And we already have ways to fix the problem.

And what, precisely, is "the problem?"

32 posted on 04/14/2006 7:17:51 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
Population of US = +/- 300,000,000

Population of the world = +/- 6,500,000,000


Presume 1/4 ( +/- 1,600,000,000 ) wish to come to the USA.

At what point do you become concerned?

Are you aware that no country (that I am aware of) allows uncontrolled immigration?

Tell me friend, at what point do you become inconvienienced? When a squatter is in your livingroom?




33 posted on 04/14/2006 7:18:03 AM PDT by G.Mason (Bye-bye Miss American Dream ... Drove my Chevy to the levy and I got my clock cleaned ...)
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To: r9etb
And what, precisely, is "the problem?"

No offense...but are you daft or something? Perhaps you should stick to an issue you know at least a wee bit about?
34 posted on 04/14/2006 7:19:18 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: cripplecreek
The prostitutes in DC are between a rock and a hard place.

For a while there I didn't realize you were talking about the politicians - I thought more American wages were being driven down by cheap foreign labor. :^)

35 posted on 04/14/2006 7:23:04 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows (When Al Franken had his bris, they threw away the baby and saved the foreskin.)
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To: G.Mason
At what point do you become concerned?

I don't know -- you tell me. You suggest that it's a problem: why is it a problem?

36 posted on 04/14/2006 7:23:15 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: FerdieMurphy

I wager we will hear of slave labor in the news soon for the msm they will say anything to help the illegals.


37 posted on 04/14/2006 7:24:32 AM PDT by Vaduz (and just think how clean the cities would become again.)
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To: P-40
No offense...but are you daft or something? Perhaps you should stick to an issue you know at least a wee bit about?

I'm just asking you to tell me what you perceive to be the problems raised by illegal immigration. Are you going to bluster instead?

38 posted on 04/14/2006 7:25:06 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
We've had a system in place for Migrant crop workers. It probably needs to be revamped, but who is going to replace the migrant workers when they become citizens and decide picking lettuce doesn't pay enough?

I can't do this anymore today...it's very depressing. Take care,sw

39 posted on 04/14/2006 7:30:51 AM PDT by spectre (Spectre's wife)
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To: r9etb
I'm just asking you to tell me what you perceive to be the problems raised by illegal immigration.

What area do you need to know about? The welfare drain? The depressing of wages for unskilled workers? The cost of educating the children of illegals? The enabling of a corrupt system in Mexico?
40 posted on 04/14/2006 7:31:13 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: spectre
I can't do this anymore today...it's very depressing. Take care,sw

You, too, ma'am.

41 posted on 04/14/2006 7:39:39 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: FerdieMurphy

The supporters of illegal immigration try to maginalize the crossing of the border illgaly as a technicality, but that is only just the start of their ongoing illegallity.

They steal identifications, they steal jobs from Americans, They pay no taxes, they drive without insurance or licences, it goes on and on.

The crime rate in Phoenix, has spiked alarmingly in recent years, Phoenix now has the 4th worst per capita rate in the country.


How can anyone expect that someone who flagrantly breaks the law to enter the country is going to respect the law once they get here?


42 posted on 04/14/2006 7:40:42 AM PDT by Wil H
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To: FerdieMurphy
The illegals are citizens of Mexico

Most are taking awAy LEGAL American jobs using no social security number, fake social security numbers or a legal American stolen social security number.

Many also work for cash.

Many send money tax free to Mexico.

Many have no permanent address.

Who knows where the illegals will be in ten years.

SO WHY IS THE GOVERNMENT NOT CONCERNED ( ESPECIALLY THE DEMOCRATS ) WHAT ALL THIS IS DOING TO FUTURE SOCIAL SECURITY PAYMENT CONTRIBUTIONS!

43 posted on 04/14/2006 7:43:04 AM PDT by jetson (throne)
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To: r9etb
You want into bait some here into stating they don't want wetbacks in the US? Because that seems to be the game you're playing.

If you are too moronic to answer a civil, logical question, then just piss off!




44 posted on 04/14/2006 7:45:17 AM PDT by G.Mason (Bye-bye Miss American Dream ... Drove my Chevy to the levy and I got my clock cleaned ...)
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To: P-40
What area do you need to know about? The welfare drain? The depressing of wages for unskilled workers? The cost of educating the children of illegals? The enabling of a corrupt system in Mexico?

I don't need to "know" about them, as I already have a pretty good feel for it. The point was to get you to name some problems.

Welfare drain -- that's primarily a problem caused by American state and local governments extending welfare to illegals. If you want to fix that problem, start with your legislature. Same with schools.

Depressing wages for unskilled workers -- That's an interesting one: the free market seems to be at work here. You need to provide more detail about why this one is a problem.

Enabling a corrupt system in Mexico -- Agreed. The question is: what is our best response? If we send these folks home there's probably going to be a revolution down south, and we might not like what comes out of it -- could be an increased flow of refugees across our borders, for example. So that's got to be looked at carefully.

Any other problems?

45 posted on 04/14/2006 7:45:29 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
"I'm suggesting, rather, that some folks aren't really all that concerned with its illegality except as a convenience -- they oppose the border-crossers for other reasons (with some reasons being better than others)."

And what might those "other reasons" be?? The fact that their continuing presence encourages the same "culture of corruption" that already exists in Mexico?? The fact that simply to be here they have to commit a continuing series of crimes?? The fact that they are bringing in diseases that had been pretty much eradicated in the US??

46 posted on 04/14/2006 7:46:06 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog (The Hog of Steel)
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To: G.Mason
You want into bait some here into stating they don't want wetbacks in the US? Because that seems to be the game you're playing.

No, not at all. I want you to tell me why you think it's a problem. If you'd rather I judge your real views on the matter by your heated response, go right ahead and leave it at that. If you want to be taken seriously, though, please give an honest answer.

47 posted on 04/14/2006 7:47:57 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: Wonder Warthog
And what might those "other reasons" be??

That's what I'm asking folks to provide.

48 posted on 04/14/2006 7:48:36 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
You need to provide more detail about why this one is a problem.

If you cannot grasp the problem with that using common sense...you have no grasp of the illegal immigration issue as a whole. Do you really not understand that depressing wages is a problem. Do you know what the dropout rate is in this country. Where are those people supposed to make a living? Do you want to pay welfare for them forever? And no one is going to cut off welfare to illegals or keep their kids out of schools. There are too many bleeding heart idiots out there who created the illegal immigration problem in the first place. And a revolution in Mexico would be an improvement.
49 posted on 04/14/2006 7:52:44 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: r9etb
I'm just asking you to tell me what you perceive to be the problems raised by illegal immigration. Are you going to bluster instead?

1 Violation of Sovereignty.

2. Breakdown of National Security.

3. Overwhelming of emergency medical services forcing some into closure.

4. Rampant lawlessness and escalating violent crime.

5. Huge increase in uninsured motorists.

6. Increased cost to taxpayers as welfare rolls swell

7. Increased cost to taxpayer dealing with ever growing non English speaking clientele.

8. Depression of wages in low skilled and entry level jobs as illegals take jobs that high school students used to do.

9. Increased drug trade.

10. Violent gun battles between competing gangs of immigrant smugglers.

11. Destruction and trashing of the desert by thoushands trekking across it and leaving litter.

12. Destruction of neighborhoods with hundreds hiding in "drop houses" in unsanitary conditions.

Need I go on? just points 1 and 2 are enough...

50 posted on 04/14/2006 7:59:06 AM PDT by Wil H
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