Skip to comments.The Real ID Rebellion (National ID)
Posted on 04/17/2006 8:50:15 AM PDT by af_vet_rr
In 1775, New Hampshire was the first colony to declare its independence from oppressive laws and taxes levied by the British crown.
Now it may become the first state to declare its independence from an oppressive digital ID law concocted in Washington, D.C.
New Hampshire's House of Representatives has overwhelmingly approved a remarkable bill, HB 1582, that would prohibit the state from participating in the national ID card system that will be created in 2008. A state Senate vote is expected as early as next week.
The federal law in question is the Real ID Act (here's our FAQ on the topic) that was glued on to a military spending and tsunami relief bill last year. Because few politicians are courageous enough to be seen as opposing tsunami aid, the measure sailed through the U.S. Senate by a 100-0 vote and navigated its way through the House 368 votes to 58.
Unless states issue new, electronically readable ID cards that adhere to federal standards, the law says, Americans will need a passport to do everyday things like travel on an airplane, open a bank account, sign up for Social Security or enter a federal building.
(Excerpt) Read more at news.com.com ...
Had this happened under Bill Clinton, Republicans would freak out. As it is, it was pushed by Republicans, under a Republican Administration, by a Republican-controlled House and Senate, and was deliberately attached to a bill that few would dare vote against, rather than on its own as a free-standing bill where there would be some debate.
Even if it was pushed as a free-standing bill, I think that too many people with R's next to their names would champion this without really thinking about the future implications.
Just out of curiousity, how do you police illegal immigration without some form of I.D.?
Unfortunately the world is filled with illbehaving jerks, and we either have to hunt them all down and kill them, or put up with driver's licenses that conform to a national standard.
Of course the real question is will we have the guts to do anything about it? Right now they basically get a total free pass, anyway.
The way you police ILLEGAL ALIENS is to require all LEGAL immigrants to carry a digital ID card, and digital visas . A simple green card makes it easy to copy and forge, a digital ID on the line of most drivers licenses today would make it easy to verify the identity of immigrants and weed out the ILLEGALS from the legals. No need for a national ID, we live in freedom here and an ID is another chunk out of our freedoms.
If you can't see the danger of requiring a national ID then you have a problem.
Call it a "Patriot Card". We'll line up like lemmings.
"Just out of curiousity, how do you police illegal immigration without some form of I.D.?"
That's an excellent question, and one that doesn't get raised often enough. In reality, there's not much of a way to enforce those laws without some recognizable form of I.D.
Social Security numbers don't work, since they can be obtained pretty easily, really, and the Social Security card isn't an I.D. anyhow, since it doesn't include a photo or any fingerprints or any such stuff.
A birth certificate is useless, too, since you can get one by sending a request for it to the local county clerk. A quick trip to a local newspaper archive for the year you were born will pop up a number of names you can use to request a birth certificate.
Driver's licenses....well, they'll do, as long as the process of getting one involves some sort of proof of citizenship. But you can see the two paragraphs above for ways around that.
How DO we tell who is a citizen and who is not? That's a tough question, and I don't have a good answer for it.
Recent naturalized citizens have their naturalization papers, even if they only speak English haltingly. I have my passport, which should serve.
Many of those existing forms of I.D.'s are easily forged. Social Security cards even more easily. Without an integrated database, an employer can request and receive valid I.D. information from an illegal, only to find out weeks or even months later that it was bogus.
If the feds are dependent on inadequate state I.D.'s for identification, how are they supposed to enforce the immigration laws properly?
I'm really not taking a position on this because I don't like the "National I.D." thing anyway. But I do see a problem with controlling illegal workers under the current system.
actually it just says STATE id's have to adhere to a standard.
IOW no easily counterfited DLs or State ID's.
This is a good thing.
An easy wway for a state to avoid this entirly is to just not issue ANY ID document. No DL's no ID's NOTHING.
But isn't that already the case with the current I.D. system? I mean, I can't imagine that the state I.D. currently required to enter federal courts are tougher to forge than a federal one using updated technology.
It's a tough issue.
I don't see the big deal with and ID. You have to show ID for everything, like cashing a check, getting on a plane. Why not have one that means something and would discourage illegals.
You know, there are some interesting difficulties in this whole lack of a uniform system of identifications. Let's take this case:
1. The person is not a citizen.
2. He/she speaks excellent English, as do many people outside of the USA.
3. He/she never attempts to vote.
4. He/she never applies for any sort of welfare.
5. Through some subterfuge, the person has a SS# and Driver's Licence (it's not that difficult).
6. Most importantly, U.S. Citizens are not required to present identification on demand.
How do you identify this person as an illegal alien? The answer is that you don't. He/she lives and operates as a legal citizen, and probably will never be discovered.
Policing illegal immigration is treating the symptom. Tens of millions of illegal immigrants arrive because (a) it's so hard to be legal, and (b) socialism gives them a great deal for nothing.
If the gov't would stop stealing from legals and giving to illegals, thus curtailing the demand for entry at all costs, there wouldn't be a need to police illegal immigrants.
"Papieren, bitte" ("papers, please") was long considered the indicator of the worst of totalitarian governance. Suddenly it's considered normal and expected - that indicates something has gone horribly wrong.
Living in a state where the IDs are a total joke (they used to be cheap laminates that looked like fake IDs, then they finally got "modern" but made them good until you turn 65 so after a few years they stop being at all useful as identification) I can see a definite need for some better rules and standardization on what an ID is in this country. Not sure Real ID is the right answer but I do know something had to be done. Oh and did I mention that in AZ you can order a replacement ID for $4 off the web with no proof of anything, anybody that wants to start a fake ID business need only only move to AZ, you can get DMV to mass produce your fakes for you, don't worry if the people you sell them to look nothing like you half of us in AZ don't look anything like our IDs anymore.
Well, if they're not voting, not collecting welfare, paying taxes (that's why they have the SSN), and not committing other crimes, I don't have as much problem with them. Set up a system to legalize that exact status, with a valid I.D. to confirm it, control the border, and you've got a solution. No freeloading, no crime, no voting, and paying taxes.
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