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Kalashnikov says Iraq shows his gun is still best
Reuters ^ | 4/17/06

Posted on 04/17/2006 3:44:47 PM PDT by Paddlefish

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Mikhail Kalashnikov, designer of the world's most popular assault rifle, says that U.S. soldiers in Iraq are using his invention in preference to their own weapons, proving that his gun is still the best.

"Even after lying in a swamp you can pick up this rifle, aim it and shoot. That's the best job description there is for a gun. Real soldiers know that and understand it," the 86-year-old gunmaker told a weekend news conference in Moscow.

"In Vietnam, American soldiers threw away their M-16 rifles and used (Kalashnikov) AK-47s from dead Vietnamese soldiers, with bullets they captured. That was because the climate is different to America, where M-16s may work properly," he said.

"Look what's happening now: every day on television we see that the Americans in Iraq have my machine guns and assault rifles in their armored vehicles. Even there American rifles don't work properly."

Some U.S. troops in Iraq have reportedly taken to using AK-47s in preference to the standard-issue M-16. The Cold War-era gun, renowned for its durability and easy handling, is plentiful in Iraq.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: ak47; ak47s; army; bang; banglist; gunporn; guns; iraq; kalashnikov; m16; oif; russia
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To: M1911A1

see #35 ;)

41 posted on 04/17/2006 4:57:08 PM PDT by King Prout (The UN 1967 Outer Space Treaty is bad for America and bad for humanity - DUMP IT.)
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To: Paddlefish

42 posted on 04/17/2006 5:02:23 PM PDT by Cheburashka (World's only Spatula City certified spatula repair and maintenance specialist!!!)
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The 5.56 round was designed to fragment, EXPLOSIVELY.

I've fired a lot of .223, and I've never seen ball ammo fragment. On the other hand, I have seen one tumble, AFTER hitting the target. Fired a round into a line of water soaked phone books. It went in about a foot and blew out one side at a 90-degree angle. The recovered bullet was bent in the middle, also at about a 90-degree angle.

It blew one hell of a ragged hole, BTW. Although it was NOTHING compared to what I did to a similar line of phone books with a .30-30. The difference was that the .30-30 made a massive wound channel in a straight line (totally destroying 3 phone books at its largest diameter), while the .223 was clearly tumbling. It was one ragged, jagged hole.

You should have seen what happened when I used a .223 hollow point. It went in about 8 inches and basically detonated. Soaking wet yellow paper flew in every direction, about one phone books' worth. There was no round to recover. It was ugly.

43 posted on 04/17/2006 5:03:59 PM PDT by wyattearp (Study! Study! Study! Or BONK, BONK, on the head!)
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To: ideas_over_party
Yes, IIRC we even ended up paying up in the case of the '03. The beloved Springfield is probably not quite as good a military weapon as the '98 Mauser, but in that case the Krag was so markedly inferior the Mauser design that we had to copy it, more or less.

I read somewhere that after WWII, the US Army, after hearing endlessly from GI's who bitterly complained about the superiority of the MG-42 over our design, converted a couple to .30-06, and the conversions, being sloppily done, didn't work right. The Army then pronounced the design unreliable.

The M-60 incorporated features of the MG-42, but they changed it enough to screw it up.

The sad fact is that in the US method of making war, rifles and machineguns are very much of secondary importance to supporting fires in the big scheme of things, and the discipline and training of our guys (and gals) makes up for any small arms edge the Jihadists might have. The possible shortcomings of our infantry weapons only becomes an issue after the "big battle" is over, and the "small battles" of counterinsurgency begin.
44 posted on 04/17/2006 5:07:44 PM PDT by M1911A1
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My post said "some".

Agreed, the M14 is too big for close quater combat, etc.
BTW, I trained with the M14 in basic training, then the M16 in AIT.

45 posted on 04/17/2006 5:08:52 PM PDT by umgud (12 gauge, the original pepper spray)
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To: Conservative Firster

Just another stock for a rifle that is better replaced with the SR-25 or AR-10 system. The M-14 has difficulty holding zero, especially with optics. And the heavy gas system does not lend well to free-floating.

I liked my M1A (sort of), but it was never as accurate as my HB AR.

46 posted on 04/17/2006 5:09:34 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: umgud

You're showing your age.

The kids I served with in Iraq were convinced that my boot camp issue weapon went "TWANG" when it was discharged. :-)

47 posted on 04/17/2006 5:10:45 PM PDT by M1911A1
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To: wyattearp

I've never seen ball ammo that doesn't fragment.
That's what it's designed to do.
Past 400m, velocity begins to drop off quickly and that's the key to fragmentation. Perhaps the dense phone book material kept the bullet from splitting. My XM193 will detonate in water.

48 posted on 04/17/2006 5:12:21 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
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To: gaijin
it was basically stolen and copied by EVERYONE

Kinda fun to here a Commie whine about that.

49 posted on 04/17/2006 5:13:36 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: ReignOfError
Wounded shoot back. To my knowledge our military shoots to kill, not wound. The Soviet's, IIRC, came up with that BS about wounding..mainly to justify crappy land mines.
50 posted on 04/17/2006 5:15:14 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: ideas_over_party

And the G-36 is an AR-18 knockoff, as is the XM-8(?) Go figure.

52 posted on 04/17/2006 5:16:26 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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To: M1911A1

53 posted on 04/17/2006 5:19:07 PM PDT by Dead Dog
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Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: King Prout
I have never served in the military but own a few sporting firearms and go shooting quite a bit. I always thought that the 22-250 Rem would be a great all purpose round for rifles or machine guns. I have read up on the 6.8, it seems like a winner. The old 30 Rem necked down to .27 and small enough to chamber in the M-16. I would not want to be shot with one. I find it hard to believe that anyone could take even a single .223 in a vital area and walk away unless they were 400 plus yards away from the shooter when hit. I would like to see anyone that thinks the .223 is inadequate stand and take one in the chest then talk about how wimpy the round is. (just kidding, if you are an American or one of our allies)I went shooting with a .22 hornet this weekend and you should have seen the varmints explode! Nothing like celebrating the resurrection of the lord then a prairie dog shoot! The old hornet is not on par with the .223.
56 posted on 04/17/2006 5:23:57 PM PDT by 30 Govt.
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True. But nobody can shoot through walls with M16A2/M855 ball, either.

57 posted on 04/17/2006 5:25:41 PM PDT by IGOTMINE
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According to surgeon Dr. M. Fackler, the American .223 projectile tumbles after penetrating the human body just like any other pointed bullet. If the impact velocity is high enough, the forces on the tumbling bullet cause it to fracture at the cannelure. Anyone can Google Fackler and check this out.

I dispute that 7.62mm is a hands-down better general purpose round; it does not always fragment nor always kill instantly. (I'm sure many freepers have shot deer with .308 winchester or .30-30 and discovered the animal does not drop on the spot; but runs some tens of yards first even though hit with expanding bullets. And a deer is no hyped-up hajji.)

Even the Russians switched to .22 caliber (I think 5.45mm) more than 20 years ago. Given the restriction to FMJ, this caliber has much to commend for general purpose, high volume of accurate fire.

As for Mr Kalashnikov,his gun is nice in that it is reliable, but I've never seen an accurate one on the range (maybe accurate ones exist somewhere). Beyond 100 yards or so, I'm better served with some variant of the M16.

58 posted on 04/17/2006 5:31:06 PM PDT by colderwater
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I've never seen ball ammo that doesn't fragment.

Wow. I've recovered .30-06 ball, lots of it, that has remained intact after firing into wood or sand. Same thing with .223. I've never seen them fragment, unless you hit a rock with it. Incidentally, shooting at water is almost like shooting at a rock (at rifle velocities). I'm not surprised that the ball fragments under those conditions.

Soaking wet phone books are a poor man's ballistic gel, BTW. It moves out of the way of a bullet quite nicely, and leaves a well defined wound channel behind. I've used them to test .44, .38, .357, .223, etc. Ball never breaks up. Ever. Hollow point pistol bullets expand nicely in that medium, and even they don't break up (unless I'm using the wrong bullet for the velocity - like bullets designed for 850fps moving at 1,400 - then they come unglued).

59 posted on 04/17/2006 5:33:49 PM PDT by wyattearp (Study! Study! Study! Or BONK, BONK, on the head!)
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To: ideas_over_party

"Before the '03, we briefly deployed the Norwegian Krag-Jorgenson in .30-40 - replacing the Navy Lee in 6mm and the 45-70 Trapdoor. The lack of performance against the drugged-out-of-their mind jihadis (Moros) and against the Mauser in the S-A war, drove the M1903 rifle (a Mauser) and the M1906 spitzer (German development) ammunition."

The .30-40 Craig cartridge is an excellent big game killer, or of men. The .45-70 first used in the 1873 trapdoor Springfield, is more popular today than ever, that big 405 grain slug clicking along at only 1325 fps will take most anything on earth.

It was the woeful faults of the underpowered .38 special revolver that hastened the adoption of the 1911 .45 auto, which FIW, nearly duplicates the power of the old black powder .45 long Colt, used in the Colt 1873 Single Action Army

60 posted on 04/17/2006 5:33:58 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
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