Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Kalashnikov says Iraq shows his gun is still best
Reuters ^ | 4/17/06

Posted on 04/17/2006 3:44:47 PM PDT by Paddlefish

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-120 next last
Comment #51 Removed by Moderator

To: ideas_over_party

And the G-36 is an AR-18 knockoff, as is the XM-8(?) Go figure.


52 posted on 04/17/2006 5:16:26 PM PDT by Dead Dog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: M1911A1

www.65grendel.com


53 posted on 04/17/2006 5:19:07 PM PDT by Dead Dog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

Comment #54 Removed by Moderator

Comment #55 Removed by Moderator

To: King Prout
I have never served in the military but own a few sporting firearms and go shooting quite a bit. I always thought that the 22-250 Rem would be a great all purpose round for rifles or machine guns. I have read up on the 6.8, it seems like a winner. The old 30 Rem necked down to .27 and small enough to chamber in the M-16. I would not want to be shot with one. I find it hard to believe that anyone could take even a single .223 in a vital area and walk away unless they were 400 plus yards away from the shooter when hit. I would like to see anyone that thinks the .223 is inadequate stand and take one in the chest then talk about how wimpy the round is. (just kidding, if you are an American or one of our allies)I went shooting with a .22 hornet this weekend and you should have seen the varmints explode! Nothing like celebrating the resurrection of the lord then a prairie dog shoot! The old hornet is not on par with the .223.
56 posted on 04/17/2006 5:23:57 PM PDT by 30 Govt.
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE

True. But nobody can shoot through walls with M16A2/M855 ball, either.


57 posted on 04/17/2006 5:25:41 PM PDT by IGOTMINE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE
According to surgeon Dr. M. Fackler, the American .223 projectile tumbles after penetrating the human body just like any other pointed bullet. If the impact velocity is high enough, the forces on the tumbling bullet cause it to fracture at the cannelure. Anyone can Google Fackler and check this out.

I dispute that 7.62mm is a hands-down better general purpose round; it does not always fragment nor always kill instantly. (I'm sure many freepers have shot deer with .308 winchester or .30-30 and discovered the animal does not drop on the spot; but runs some tens of yards first even though hit with expanding bullets. And a deer is no hyped-up hajji.)

Even the Russians switched to .22 caliber (I think 5.45mm) more than 20 years ago. Given the restriction to FMJ, this caliber has much to commend for general purpose, high volume of accurate fire.

As for Mr Kalashnikov,his gun is nice in that it is reliable, but I've never seen an accurate one on the range (maybe accurate ones exist somewhere). Beyond 100 yards or so, I'm better served with some variant of the M16.

C.W.
58 posted on 04/17/2006 5:31:06 PM PDT by colderwater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE
I've never seen ball ammo that doesn't fragment.

Wow. I've recovered .30-06 ball, lots of it, that has remained intact after firing into wood or sand. Same thing with .223. I've never seen them fragment, unless you hit a rock with it. Incidentally, shooting at water is almost like shooting at a rock (at rifle velocities). I'm not surprised that the ball fragments under those conditions.

Soaking wet phone books are a poor man's ballistic gel, BTW. It moves out of the way of a bullet quite nicely, and leaves a well defined wound channel behind. I've used them to test .44, .38, .357, .223, etc. Ball never breaks up. Ever. Hollow point pistol bullets expand nicely in that medium, and even they don't break up (unless I'm using the wrong bullet for the velocity - like bullets designed for 850fps moving at 1,400 - then they come unglued).

59 posted on 04/17/2006 5:33:49 PM PDT by wyattearp (Study! Study! Study! Or BONK, BONK, on the head!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: ideas_over_party

"Before the '03, we briefly deployed the Norwegian Krag-Jorgenson in .30-40 - replacing the Navy Lee in 6mm and the 45-70 Trapdoor. The lack of performance against the drugged-out-of-their mind jihadis (Moros) and against the Mauser in the S-A war, drove the M1903 rifle (a Mauser) and the M1906 spitzer (German development) ammunition."

The .30-40 Craig cartridge is an excellent big game killer, or of men. The .45-70 first used in the 1873 trapdoor Springfield, is more popular today than ever, that big 405 grain slug clicking along at only 1325 fps will take most anything on earth.

It was the woeful faults of the underpowered .38 special revolver that hastened the adoption of the 1911 .45 auto, which FIW, nearly duplicates the power of the old black powder .45 long Colt, used in the Colt 1873 Single Action Army


60 posted on 04/17/2006 5:33:58 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Paddlefish

AK's are good, dependable weapons which fire a considerably larger caliber round than the M-16. The original M-16 was quite buggy, but I've cycled thousands of rounds through my Colt M-16 A-1 and it has never jammed once. I keep it very clean and don't live in a swamp or a desert, which probably makes a difference. Still, I have no complaints.


61 posted on 04/17/2006 5:37:52 PM PDT by KarinG1 (Some of us are trying to engage in philosophical discourse. Please don't allow us to interrupt you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: colderwater
"Even the Russians switched to .22 caliber (I think 5.45mm) more than 20 years ago. Given the restriction to FMJ, this caliber has much to commend for general purpose, high volume of accurate fire."

Was adopted in 1974, in the AK-74 variant.
62 posted on 04/17/2006 5:37:57 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Paddlefish

He's correct. It is a better gun.


63 posted on 04/17/2006 5:38:38 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty ( 2006, Ravin' Lunatic since 4/98)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: colderwater

Agreed, but all bullets will "tumble" or yaw, actually, to some extent.

The myth is that the M-16 round tumbles "in flight", which couldn't be more wrong. The 5.56mm round can actually be over-stabilized, causing the round to descent over its trajectory without a downward pitch.

The beauty of the Russian 5.45mm is that the tip holds a pocket of air, which dramatically increases fragmentation.

What most people fail to realize is that 99% (my very loose, but very supportable stat) of M-16/AR failures (usually FTFs)are caused by magazine problems. For a rifle what was designed around a relatively expensive and tight manufacturing process, why did they skimp on the mags? Cheap aluminum GI mags are no match against some of the modern steel mags. Check out the CProducts new Stainless Steel mag (around $25). From what I hear, it's equal to the $50+ HK steel mag. Myself, I've had great luck with the Singapore contract British steel mags.


64 posted on 04/17/2006 5:44:37 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 58 | View Replies]

To: Paddlefish

I just have one thing to say Mr. AK...why does your design look like the German "Sturmgewehr"?


65 posted on 04/17/2006 5:44:53 PM PDT by I got the rope
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wyattearp

Check out the MythBusters episode on water stopping bullets.
Every round, including the .50cal, fragmented immediately upon penetrating the water. That's the main reason none of the rounds penetrated 6' under water. If those same rounds had been going slower, they might not have fragmented and might have penetrated 6' of water intact.

I was specifically speaking about 5.56mm (M193 and M855), which I've never seen fail to fragment in water or ballistic gelatin. Combat surgeons are retrieving fragments of 5.56mm, never whole.


66 posted on 04/17/2006 5:47:56 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: wyattearp

Also, you can't really compare pistol rounds to rifle rounds. Pistol rounds are designed to retain as much of the original mass as possible. Since the target is 12" of penetration, fragmentation would remove the mass necessary to achieve suchy.

Modern "combat" ammunition is designed to fragment, lest they zip in and out without significant damage. Fragmentation is the key for military small arms (after shot placment, of course).


67 posted on 04/17/2006 5:51:32 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 59 | View Replies]

To: IGOTMINE
But nobody can shoot through walls with M16A2/M855 ball, either.

With M193, no. With M855, it will penetrate cover better than conventional 7.62mm. Look it up, it has been done to death.

68 posted on 04/17/2006 5:53:03 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE

FN SCAR-H

69 posted on 04/17/2006 5:59:22 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Paddlefish

And then they took the full auto from the M16 too.


70 posted on 04/17/2006 6:00:53 PM PDT by TomasUSMC ((FIGHT LIKE WW2, FINISH LIKE WW2. FIGHT LIKE NAM, FINISH LIKE NAM.))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Conservative Firster

Yep.
The SCAR-H can change everything.
The SCAR-L is no slouch, either.

However, I'm dismayed by the constant desire to use the weakest link in the AR system - the MAGAZINES.


71 posted on 04/17/2006 6:04:14 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: ideas_over_party; Dead Dog

last time I checked, newly manufactured civvie versions of the Stoner 63 are available


72 posted on 04/17/2006 6:06:15 PM PDT by King Prout (The UN 1967 Outer Space Treaty is bad for America and bad for humanity - DUMP IT.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

Comment #73 Removed by Moderator

Comment #74 Removed by Moderator

To: SJSAMPLE

I saw that episode. I recall something different: rifle rounds penetrated the target all the way at the bottom of the water column, and a shotgun slug shattered the tank through transmitted shock.


75 posted on 04/17/2006 6:10:26 PM PDT by King Prout (The UN 1967 Outer Space Treaty is bad for America and bad for humanity - DUMP IT.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: SF Republican
That was because the climate is different to America - so true, whereas the weather in Siberia and Iraq are very comparable

So? The Kalashnikov works in both Siberia and Iraq. It's a working weapon, not a target range rifle.

76 posted on 04/17/2006 6:11:42 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (A pessimist is what an optimist calls a realist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ideas_over_party

yeah, I know... but at least someone has most of the needed tooling to make the military version


77 posted on 04/17/2006 6:12:17 PM PDT by King Prout (The UN 1967 Outer Space Treaty is bad for America and bad for humanity - DUMP IT.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: ideas_over_party

Spelling is no one of my strong points. (:>(


78 posted on 04/17/2006 6:21:36 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 73 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE
SJSample,

My experience with magazines for the AR is as you say, failures to feed. I had a short learning curve: learned to use US general issue magazines (Sanchez Enterprises or Adventure-line), and don't insert a magazine with the bolt forward (too easy to not fully insert). I had nothing but misery with aftermarket magazines and old GI 20 rounders. GI magazines with the green follower, I cannot complain about them.

Since then I've lost count of the rounds fired through my AR, (maybe ~2000). The only failure I had was a failure to eject, the rim of the cartridge torn off. It was Portugese surplus Nato spec ammo. IMI M855 and handloads all perform well.
I'll have look at the CProducts new Stainless Steel mag. Thanks for the tip.

C.W.
79 posted on 04/17/2006 6:25:12 PM PDT by colderwater
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 64 | View Replies]

To: gaijin
Bear in mind that Kalashnikov is kind of ticked, cuz he never really made money off his design --it was basically stolen and copied by EVERYONE.

Wasn't "his" design a knock off of the German Sturmgewehr 44?

80 posted on 04/17/2006 6:29:17 PM PDT by canalabamian (Durka durka...Muhammad FUBAR!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

Not enough gun porn on this thread yet.
My contribution:


Beretta CX4 Storm
81 posted on 04/17/2006 6:35:19 PM PDT by RandallFlagg (Roll your own cigarettes! You'll save $$$ and smoke less!(Magnetic bumper stickers-click my name)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE
Nobody wants to clear a room with an M14.


May I suggest writing the bad guys obits with a Chicago typewriter?

82 posted on 04/17/2006 6:57:52 PM PDT by Fraxinus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: King Prout

They only tested the handguns and shotgun in the water column. Recall that all kept 100% of their mass, which gave them deeper penetration.

They then went to an indoor pool and fired the rifles.
Every round, including the 30.06 from the M1 Garand, fragmented upon impact with the water.


83 posted on 04/17/2006 7:01:19 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 75 | View Replies]

To: colderwater

The USGI green followers are nice, but they aren't as "anti-tilt" as they say. The MagPul followers, particularly the GenII follower, is truely no-tilt. Not "anti-tilt", but actually impossible to tilt because of the design. I bought new D&H manufacture magazines and put the MagPul followers in them, replacing the USGI green ones. The CProducts Stainless Mag uses a licensed version of the Magpul follower. Hell, Magpul is even making glow-in-the-dark followers, now. go figure.

I fired over 5,000rnds of 5.56mm through my carbine and it was my old USGI that gave me the problems. The Magpul followers fixed that right up.


84 posted on 04/17/2006 7:04:27 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: Fraxinus

I love the classics.


85 posted on 04/17/2006 7:06:04 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Fraxinus

UMP 45

86 posted on 04/17/2006 7:06:59 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Paddlefish

Hate to say it, but...................my AK and SKS are hard-use dependable, accurate and easy to clean and service. They both are easy to go from carry to up and aim. Unfortunately, I've only had very limited chances to fire US military issue weapons.


87 posted on 04/17/2006 7:11:12 PM PDT by Thumper1960 (The enemy within: Demoncrats and DSA.ORG Sedition is a Liberal "family value".)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Conservative Firster

I've fired them.
Very nice, but discontinued.
Frame cracking issues and nobody wanted the .45ACP over the MP5/10. If only they'd been brought in with double-stack receivers, instead of the aftermarket abortions. I would have DEFINITELY picked one up.


88 posted on 04/17/2006 7:47:47 PM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Doomonyou

The problem is the wounded can still fight you. They need to die instead!


89 posted on 04/17/2006 7:48:40 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Conservative Firster

Nice description of the different rounds, but don't forget there is a Russian 7.62x54 round that is used in their Dragunov sniper rifles.


90 posted on 04/17/2006 7:51:37 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 22 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE

The round flat out DOES NOT KILL THEM! Again we had several engagements where two burts of the M249-SAW did NOT drop the target. THAT is the wrong answer.

The tumbling I am talking about is inside the target, bouncing off bone, ricocheting through the next vital organ. The engagements are far too close for the current round to do this. The rounds have so much speed, they are zipping right through, not doing any damage but the pin prick it makes.


91 posted on 04/17/2006 8:00:20 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: canalabamian

I don't think the AK was a copy of the Sturmgewehr. It was an original design, it does look suspiciously like the Browning designed Remington model 8 although internally it is different.


92 posted on 04/17/2006 8:06:14 PM PDT by yarddog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: M1911A1

We had one ol' b@stard that we would joking say; "he started out as a Gatling gunner on a Calistoga wagon!"


93 posted on 04/17/2006 8:07:09 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 47 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE
Old school UMP 45 the "Grease gun".


94 posted on 04/17/2006 8:08:33 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE

Check out the MythBusters episode on water stopping bullets.



I have a theory about that. I think if they were shooting at a more perpendicular angle there may have been a different outcome.


95 posted on 04/17/2006 8:12:44 PM PDT by SFC Chromey (We are at war with Islamofascism)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 66 | View Replies]

To: SJSAMPLE
Alexander Arms 6.5mm Grendel AR-15 Rifle

Alexander Arms .50 Beowulf


96 posted on 04/17/2006 8:28:35 PM PDT by Conservative Firster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: Conservative Firster
Not so old school...The M3A1 was on active US service until about 1990, and I believe it soldiers on today in other countries.

Of course, when we invaded Haiti, a lot of Haitains had Garands...we were outgunned!
97 posted on 04/17/2006 8:29:35 PM PDT by M1911A1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: oolatec

I agree. I wasn't the only one who put aside my M-16 when I got my hands on an AK-47 w/a banana clip in Vietnam.


98 posted on 04/17/2006 8:40:46 PM PDT by happydogx2 (Let Freedom Reign!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SFC Chromey
The round flat out DOES NOT KILL THEM!

So the DC sniper dude was a fluke of mythical proportions? Most of the dozen or so people that caught one of his bullets are dead.

99 posted on 04/17/2006 11:12:45 PM PDT by tortoise (All these moments lost in time, like tears in the rain.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: SFC Chromey

The heavier 7.62mm round would do even less damage at close range. It won't fragment as well as the 5.56mm, and the mass carries it through human targets. You can't rely on the increased diameter to get the job done, but the 7.62 gives you enhanced shoot-through capability. Ironically, the 5.56mm round excels at the closer ranges.

It's really logistics that's keeping the 5.56mm round in service. The US pushed its allies to adopt the 5.56mm round over the .243 round that the Brits wanted.


100 posted on 04/18/2006 5:18:36 AM PDT by SJSAMPLE
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-5051-100101-120 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson