Skip to comments.Kalashnikov says Iraq shows his gun is still best
Posted on 04/17/2006 3:44:47 PM PDT by Paddlefish
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And the G-36 is an AR-18 knockoff, as is the XM-8(?) Go figure.
True. But nobody can shoot through walls with M16A2/M855 ball, either.
Wow. I've recovered .30-06 ball, lots of it, that has remained intact after firing into wood or sand. Same thing with .223. I've never seen them fragment, unless you hit a rock with it. Incidentally, shooting at water is almost like shooting at a rock (at rifle velocities). I'm not surprised that the ball fragments under those conditions.
Soaking wet phone books are a poor man's ballistic gel, BTW. It moves out of the way of a bullet quite nicely, and leaves a well defined wound channel behind. I've used them to test .44, .38, .357, .223, etc. Ball never breaks up. Ever. Hollow point pistol bullets expand nicely in that medium, and even they don't break up (unless I'm using the wrong bullet for the velocity - like bullets designed for 850fps moving at 1,400 - then they come unglued).
"Before the '03, we briefly deployed the Norwegian Krag-Jorgenson in .30-40 - replacing the Navy Lee in 6mm and the 45-70 Trapdoor. The lack of performance against the drugged-out-of-their mind jihadis (Moros) and against the Mauser in the S-A war, drove the M1903 rifle (a Mauser) and the M1906 spitzer (German development) ammunition."
The .30-40 Craig cartridge is an excellent big game killer, or of men. The .45-70 first used in the 1873 trapdoor Springfield, is more popular today than ever, that big 405 grain slug clicking along at only 1325 fps will take most anything on earth.
It was the woeful faults of the underpowered .38 special revolver that hastened the adoption of the 1911 .45 auto, which FIW, nearly duplicates the power of the old black powder .45 long Colt, used in the Colt 1873 Single Action Army
AK's are good, dependable weapons which fire a considerably larger caliber round than the M-16. The original M-16 was quite buggy, but I've cycled thousands of rounds through my Colt M-16 A-1 and it has never jammed once. I keep it very clean and don't live in a swamp or a desert, which probably makes a difference. Still, I have no complaints.
He's correct. It is a better gun.
Agreed, but all bullets will "tumble" or yaw, actually, to some extent.
The myth is that the M-16 round tumbles "in flight", which couldn't be more wrong. The 5.56mm round can actually be over-stabilized, causing the round to descent over its trajectory without a downward pitch.
The beauty of the Russian 5.45mm is that the tip holds a pocket of air, which dramatically increases fragmentation.
What most people fail to realize is that 99% (my very loose, but very supportable stat) of M-16/AR failures (usually FTFs)are caused by magazine problems. For a rifle what was designed around a relatively expensive and tight manufacturing process, why did they skimp on the mags? Cheap aluminum GI mags are no match against some of the modern steel mags. Check out the CProducts new Stainless Steel mag (around $25). From what I hear, it's equal to the $50+ HK steel mag. Myself, I've had great luck with the Singapore contract British steel mags.
I just have one thing to say Mr. AK...why does your design look like the German "Sturmgewehr"?
Check out the MythBusters episode on water stopping bullets.
Every round, including the .50cal, fragmented immediately upon penetrating the water. That's the main reason none of the rounds penetrated 6' under water. If those same rounds had been going slower, they might not have fragmented and might have penetrated 6' of water intact.
I was specifically speaking about 5.56mm (M193 and M855), which I've never seen fail to fragment in water or ballistic gelatin. Combat surgeons are retrieving fragments of 5.56mm, never whole.
Also, you can't really compare pistol rounds to rifle rounds. Pistol rounds are designed to retain as much of the original mass as possible. Since the target is 12" of penetration, fragmentation would remove the mass necessary to achieve suchy.
Modern "combat" ammunition is designed to fragment, lest they zip in and out without significant damage. Fragmentation is the key for military small arms (after shot placment, of course).
With M193, no. With M855, it will penetrate cover better than conventional 7.62mm. Look it up, it has been done to death.
And then they took the full auto from the M16 too.
The SCAR-H can change everything.
The SCAR-L is no slouch, either.
However, I'm dismayed by the constant desire to use the weakest link in the AR system - the MAGAZINES.
last time I checked, newly manufactured civvie versions of the Stoner 63 are available
I saw that episode. I recall something different: rifle rounds penetrated the target all the way at the bottom of the water column, and a shotgun slug shattered the tank through transmitted shock.
So? The Kalashnikov works in both Siberia and Iraq. It's a working weapon, not a target range rifle.
yeah, I know... but at least someone has most of the needed tooling to make the military version
Spelling is no one of my strong points. (:>(
Wasn't "his" design a knock off of the German Sturmgewehr 44?
May I suggest writing the bad guys obits with a Chicago typewriter?
They only tested the handguns and shotgun in the water column. Recall that all kept 100% of their mass, which gave them deeper penetration.
They then went to an indoor pool and fired the rifles.
Every round, including the 30.06 from the M1 Garand, fragmented upon impact with the water.
The USGI green followers are nice, but they aren't as "anti-tilt" as they say. The MagPul followers, particularly the GenII follower, is truely no-tilt. Not "anti-tilt", but actually impossible to tilt because of the design. I bought new D&H manufacture magazines and put the MagPul followers in them, replacing the USGI green ones. The CProducts Stainless Mag uses a licensed version of the Magpul follower. Hell, Magpul is even making glow-in-the-dark followers, now. go figure.
I fired over 5,000rnds of 5.56mm through my carbine and it was my old USGI that gave me the problems. The Magpul followers fixed that right up.
I love the classics.
Hate to say it, but...................my AK and SKS are hard-use dependable, accurate and easy to clean and service. They both are easy to go from carry to up and aim. Unfortunately, I've only had very limited chances to fire US military issue weapons.
I've fired them.
Very nice, but discontinued.
Frame cracking issues and nobody wanted the .45ACP over the MP5/10. If only they'd been brought in with double-stack receivers, instead of the aftermarket abortions. I would have DEFINITELY picked one up.
The problem is the wounded can still fight you. They need to die instead!
Nice description of the different rounds, but don't forget there is a Russian 7.62x54 round that is used in their Dragunov sniper rifles.
The round flat out DOES NOT KILL THEM! Again we had several engagements where two burts of the M249-SAW did NOT drop the target. THAT is the wrong answer.
The tumbling I am talking about is inside the target, bouncing off bone, ricocheting through the next vital organ. The engagements are far too close for the current round to do this. The rounds have so much speed, they are zipping right through, not doing any damage but the pin prick it makes.
I don't think the AK was a copy of the Sturmgewehr. It was an original design, it does look suspiciously like the Browning designed Remington model 8 although internally it is different.
We had one ol' b@stard that we would joking say; "he started out as a Gatling gunner on a Calistoga wagon!"
Check out the MythBusters episode on water stopping bullets.
I agree. I wasn't the only one who put aside my M-16 when I got my hands on an AK-47 w/a banana clip in Vietnam.
So the DC sniper dude was a fluke of mythical proportions? Most of the dozen or so people that caught one of his bullets are dead.
The heavier 7.62mm round would do even less damage at close range. It won't fragment as well as the 5.56mm, and the mass carries it through human targets. You can't rely on the increased diameter to get the job done, but the 7.62 gives you enhanced shoot-through capability. Ironically, the 5.56mm round excels at the closer ranges.
It's really logistics that's keeping the 5.56mm round in service. The US pushed its allies to adopt the 5.56mm round over the .243 round that the Brits wanted.