So our stock of "porcine penetrators" isn't going to cut it eh?
Posted on 04/18/2006 7:10:51 AM PDT by white trash redneck
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Israeli-made bullets bought by the U.S. Army to plug a shortfall should be used for training only, not to fight Muslim guerrillas in Iraq and Afghanistan, U.S. lawmakers told Army generals on Thursday.
Since the Army has other stockpiled ammunition, "by no means, under any circumstances should a round (from Israel) be utilized," said Rep. Neil Abercrombie of Hawaii, the top Democrat on a House of Representatives Armed Services subcommittee with jurisdiction over land forces.
The Army contracted with Israel Military Industries Ltd. in December for $70 million in small-caliber ammunition.
The Israeli firm was one of only two worldwide that could meet U.S. technical specifications and delivery needs, said Brig. Gen. Paul Izzo, the Army's program executive officer for ammunition. The other was East Alton, Illinois-based Winchester Ammunition, which also received a $70 million contract.
Although the Army should not have to worry about "political correctness," Abercrombie was making a valid point about the propaganda pitfalls of using Israeli rounds in the U.S.-declared war on terror, said Rep. Curt Weldon, the Pennsylvania Republican who chairs the subcommittee on tactical air and land forces.
"There's a sensitivity that I think all of us recognize," Weldon told the Army witnesses, including Maj. Gen. Buford Blount, who led the U.S. Third Infantry Division that captured Baghdad in April 2003.
Blount, now the Army's assistant deputy chief of staff, said the Army had sufficient small caliber ammunition -- 5.56mm, 7.62mm and .50 caliber -- to conduct current operations in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere.
But taken together with training needs, the United States had strained its production facilities, he testified.
"To fight a major combat operation in another theater will require the Army to impose restrictions on training expenditures and to focus current inventory and new production on combat operations," Blount said.
As a result, he said the Army hoped to stretch U.S. supplies to supplement the capacity of the government-owned Lake City plant in Independence, Missouri, that currently makes more than 90 percent of U.S. small caliber ammunition.
The Lake City factory, operated by Alliant Techsystems Inc., has nearly quadrupled its production in the past four years. This year, it will produce more than 1.2 billion rounds, Karen Davies, president of the ATK arm that runs it, told the panel. Lake City provided more than 2 billion rounds a year during World War II and Vietnam, she said.
The Army's needs will grow to about 1.5 billion to 1.7 billion rounds a year in coming years, Blount said.
"In the near-term, balancing training requirements with current operational needs is a manageable risk-mitigation strategy," he said.
The Army does not want to repeat its history of building capacity during wartime "only to dismantle it in peacetime," Blount added.
I think they ought to equip our troops with Israeli manufactured ammo DIPPED IN PIG FAT.
PC ammo. wow.
Israel has a terrible pig shortage. We'd have to export lard to them.
Last year?
Jun 24, 5:56 PM (ET)
So how do you know what bullet hit you?
Insanity!
So our stock of "porcine penetrators" isn't going to cut it eh?
Un-freakin-real...
PC bullets, wouldn't want to offend the people we're ****ING SHOOTING AT!
So, does this mean we get to ship 'Ole Fat Teddy K to Israel?
They are telling them what kind of bullets to use now??
oh please, give me a freakin break already. How can a pig hater muslim, know if he's been hit with an Israeli bullet or an American one, and why should we care about how our enemy "feels" about what country made our ammo? This is ridiculous!
This is ridiculous.
All our bullets should have a pig blood center that explodes on contact........muzzies would run and hide.....and the war would be over without firing a single bullet!
Things are getting curiouser and curiouser.
Alice in Wonderland
If I were in the field, I'd keep a rasher of bacon handy for personal application to bullet tips. Wouldn't want to take any chances.
Idiots! WIMPS! Pussies! tell them to USE THE ISRAELI AMMO for gosh darn sakes. Let the insurgents know this is what we're going to do. Plant a car bomb and we'll cap your arse with an Israeli bullet and grease the body bag with pig fat. Holy psyops, Batman, don't those politicians have a clue?
LOL very funny reply.
But back to the question of winning this war, an important element is in winning the hearts and minds of the local population, and a important element to that is not handing over to the other side any anything that can be used in propaganda.
The hearts and Minds operation are beginning to bare fruit with more intelligence being supplied by local people, allowing us to capture or kill more of the terrorists
Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel.
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This is reasonable, we certainly don't want to get the terrorists angry with us.
Besides, it can't cost much more to ship Israeli ammo to the US, so that we can ship US ammo to Iraq. Israel and Iraq aren't near each other, are they?
Wow....
IMO, I still can't understand why we can't inform the Islamic nuts that all our rounds and bombs are coated in pig. That way, when we kill them, they don't get their SATANIC rewards.
Find out the enemies weakness and USE IT against them.
The Army does have a clue which is why they would not use tactics such as those you mentioned, it will have a negative not a positive effect.
right....we shouldnt use those.
we should instead use new ammo, using bullets prepared by dipping in pigs blood.
No we don't want to lose the support of the local population who we need to win the war in Iraq and to turn it into a stable western friendly nation
re :Holy psyops, Batman, don't those politicians have a clue?
The Army does have a clue which is why they would not use tactics such as those you mentioned, it will have a negative not a positive effect.
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And...how is that working out for them so far? Oh yeah, that's right...they are pouring over the borders to keep fighting. Their weakness....find their weakness. 101 in fighting ANYTHING.
I'm not going to join in the calls for bullets dipped in pig fat, or pork-blood centered bullets, because I think that sort of thing is immature, uncalled for, and even asinine.
With that said, I can't #*%*@! believe there's even an ATTEMPT to control which bullets are being fired at which targets. There is no realistic reason to do something like that.
Even if the reasoning behind this was to prevent certain Arab factions from using the Israeli bullets as "proof" to rile up their fellows to push for an attack on Israel, the argument falls short. Aren't they already going after Israel? I'm pretty sure a few bullets wouldn't change things significantly.
What a bunch of bluetards.
Here's the FR post from back then: U.S. BRASS BARS ISRAEL BULLETS - June 25, 2004
If Al Queda insurgents were backed into a corner and the only ammo they had to use was captured Israeli ordinance, they'd use it.
I give you the age-old story about the kidnapped KGB agent and the Bobbit treatment to free him. We cannot continue to apply Western values when interpreting how our actions will be received. Weakness does not gain respect in the eyes of our enemy. And it isn't the Army requesting this, it is the RATs on the armed services committee.
Satire? This is really gay.. and insane. Gee, let me see, there is a terrorist about to shoot me but I better check first to see if my Israeli made ammo isn't loaded... and I better wait until he moves away from the mosque.. and gee maybe it's prayer time...
You British can try all you want, whether or not as collaborators with the Arab world, but you simply cannot wish away that sh***y little country, Israel.
If we need bullets or other armaments to do our work in Israel or elsewhere, there simply is no moral justification to let our troops be put in harms way because we are willing to capitulate to anti-Semitism -- if this episode does not in fact constitute our outright engaging in it.
War is not a video game.
You should not be afraid of hurting the enemies' feelings.....after all, you're trying to kill them!!
I'll get MY pig blood centered bullets dipped in Holy Water first.
“I am hit — praise be to Allah! — by a Crusader, not a Zionist bullet.”
Do you really think that's high on the list of issues they have with us? From what I recall of this, it was an issue initially raised by politicians here in the US, not our military.
This is just too stoopid for words!
Remove the populations support and that is then there major weakness.
This is what are forces have been doing over there.
This has led to better intelligence gathering with more local people coming forward with information on terrorist cells and supply points. Leading to a number of successful operations.
The training of the new Iraq army is also starting to bare fruit.
And local people of started to deal with the foreign terrorists them self's, even reported on this very site.
I am all for fighting with every weapon in the Armory, but it has to be the right weapon at the right time, in the right terrine.
That suggestion regarding pig fat is a way to cement good relations with Muslims. Lighten up and think a little.
Have you heard about that film in Turkey, about the American Army fighting in Iraq, it was not enough to make the Americans seem like bloody thirsty women and child killers, after all many Arab army's are not what you would call a model of decency.
No the real punch was the Jewish Doctor trading in human body parts.
We have to be careful out there.
It would be a great piece of propaganda Americans using Israeli rounds to kill Muslims, would sen be changed to American troops killing Muslims for Jews.
I know many of you don't care and want this to be a war against Islam. Who cares about hearts and minds if we are going to kill or convert them all.
Well its not going to happen no matter people might want it to be.
You may not know it and I have not seen any mention about it on here, but it is not hidden knowledge, but America has stepped up the Soft war as well, using similar tactics perfected during the Cold War.
Why are you posting a story that's nearly two years old?
"...winning the hearts and minds of the local population,..."
You can't possibly be serious?
For every single faction of muslim/"iraqi" participants, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" is in effect wrt the US. None of them are destined for or intend to have an eye-to-eye realtionship with the US after the shouting is over.....they will all revert to their homoestatic nature.
I would have replied to you, explaining about COIN strategy as I have to others but from your rant I guess it would go right over your little head.
I will change my mind on your abject stupidity if you can point out where I wished away Israel
We could export the excess lard under the guise of a Ted Kennedy visit.
"There's a sensitivity that I think all of us recognize,"
Yeah. Human bodies are very "sensitive" to bullets - no matter where they were made.
Bleh, of course I wasn't going to be the first with that joke, now was I?
"I think they ought to equip our troops with Israeli manufactured ammo DIPPED IN PIG FAT."
Works for me.
Then, what are we doing out there, and from all reports from troops on the ground in both the British and American sectors it is working.
You were in Vietnam, you cant tell me that when the local population start coming forward with information on the bad guys thats not winning their hearts and minds.
It's funny that just as it was with Vietnam, we're kicking the shiite out of them militarily, but we're actually losing the war in terms of public opinion. Amazing.
Since the Army has other stockpiled ammunition, "by no means, under any circumstances should a round (from Israel) be utilized,"
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