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Itís This Bad [Outsanding from Dalrymple on England's descent into liberal hell]
City Journal ^ | 4/18/2006 | Theodore Dalrymple

Posted on 04/19/2006 5:32:55 PM PDT by Uncledave

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To: Uncledave
This is a problem everywhere not just in Britain.

And the sad fact is we have always had this sort of violence even when I was growing up in avery tough part of the East End.

As a young lad in the early 70s I would not go into bars where I was not known.

The what you looking at has always been used to start a punch up, with also popular you looking at my bird, and you just made me spill my pint

And it was the same in my Dads day as well.

There are parts of Britain that have always been very violent, going right back through time.

That said we need to sort out a better sentencing structure.

The problem is we tend to use jail to much, which means we end up with overcrowded jails, and so have to limit the time spent.

We need to sort out a proper sentencing strategy and maybe look at what constitutes a crime as well.

I know one crime that I would legalise as it uses up more than its fair share of police, court and prison resources.

Also I sometimes work with youngsters and on the whole they are law abiding.

Its just the bad ones, the mindless thugs and criminals who get publicity.

41 posted on 04/20/2006 4:25:30 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: RepoGirl
re :Your comments hit home. I was a student in London in 1990, during the final days of Thatcher. It was a wonderful time, one of those personal "golden eras".

I have to correct you on this, it was a very violent time as well depending on where you visit. Do you forget the race riots in Brixton, the Notting Hill riots, the Miners strikes and riots

And as a native of London large parts of the city has been gentrified, the whole of the Thames Area.

And we still have the same spirit as yester year.

Most street crime now days is youngsters on youngsters.

By the what where were you a student, I had just left the Regular Army then, and was attending London University QMW

42 posted on 04/20/2006 4:30:50 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: RepoGirl
re :Your comments hit home. I was a student in London in 1990, during the final days of Thatcher. It was a wonderful time, one of those personal "golden eras".

I have to correct you on this, it was a very violent time as well depending on where you visit. Do you forget the race riots in Brixton, the Notting Hill riots, the Miners strikes and riots

And as a native of London large parts of the city has been gentrified, the whole of the Thames Area.

And we still have the same spirit as yester year.

Most street crime now days is youngsters on youngsters.

By the what where were you a student, I had just left the Regular Army then, and was attending London University QMW

43 posted on 04/20/2006 4:30:53 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: Campion
re :But the root of this is that Britain has a socialist mindset

LOL and the root cause of crime in other countries is:

44 posted on 04/20/2006 4:32:29 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: Uncledave

He misses a point. If these incidents were considered "normal", and not out of order, they would not have been in the newspapers which he read.

Plenty of normal life goes on in England. I live on the South Coast, and while we have our share of young and stupid teenagers, this is a good place to be and to live.

Every country has its problems, but there are virtues too. What is certain is that every time the world has written Britain off, that judgement has been proven incorrect.

Regards, Ivan


45 posted on 04/20/2006 4:34:27 AM PDT by MadIvan (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: MadIvan

I'm glad you pointed that out. We certainly have our share of incidents of liberal madness in the U.S. (most of them are chronicled and exposed here on FR), yet I'm not even close to pronouncing this country irretrievably lost.


46 posted on 04/20/2006 4:42:48 AM PDT by rightwingintelligentsia
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To: tonycavanagh
This is a problem everywhere not just in Britain.

There is a difference between expecting a fight in a bar in a tough neighborhood and expecting a fight -- to the death, mind you -- while you are fixing your car in your driveway.

Concerning everywhere, the circumstances described in the article remind me a bit of my suburban neighborhood in the '70s when the biker gangs where in their heyday.

Things have gotten much better.

47 posted on 04/20/2006 5:02:32 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Uncledave

Good read! Makes you wonder about the ones who claim that we are becoming better and better all the time...why in no time, we will all be gods!


48 posted on 04/20/2006 5:20:48 AM PDT by Shery (S. H. in APOland)
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To: Tribune7
re :There is a difference between expecting a fight in a bar in a tough neighborhood and expecting a fight -- to the death, mind you -- while you are fixing your car in your driveway.

I agree, problem was the bloke was fixing his car in a tough neighborhood.

Most of this sort of crime happens in the same neighborhoods, and its usually the same kids, and there kids, in fact usually the same family.

In my old area there were one or two families that were the most aggressive, petty criminals the works, and today their grandkids and in some cases great grandkids are just as bad.

The problem is that this sort of crime only gets reported when the victim is seen as one of the betters, but it is mostly ignored like your street gang violence in your cities when its just gang on gang, or in our case poor working class beating up on poor working class.

So most people while they may tut tut over there newspapers don't care because it wont reach them, although it does reach there children when they are mugged for there mobiles, ipods psps and trainers.

49 posted on 04/20/2006 6:08:06 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: RepoGirl

I, too, was a student in London during 1990. During the summer, which was a World Cup year. I've been back several times since, most recently in 2005. I couldn't agree more that it's a shell of it's former self. I don't want to return.


50 posted on 04/20/2006 6:30:33 AM PDT by Uncledave
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To: tonycavanagh
but it is mostly ignored like your street gang violence in your cities when its just gang on gang,

Well, that is true. Hopefully, the article is an exaggeration or written with the intent to keep things from getting worse. I like the English.

51 posted on 04/20/2006 6:32:15 AM PDT by Tribune7
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To: Uncledave

Simply wonderful. Every word a gem.


52 posted on 04/20/2006 6:38:42 AM PDT by hershey
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To: alwaysconservative

Exactly!


53 posted on 04/20/2006 6:41:10 AM PDT by hershey
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To: tonycavanagh
LOL and the root cause of crime in other countries is

Original sin. But what I'm talking about is not "crime," but the British insistence that for a law-abiding citizen to defend himself against crime is somehow unacceptable.

The farmer who was burglarized repeatedly and then prosecuted for shooting the burglars ... what is his name again, Tony Martin? Talk to him about it.

54 posted on 04/20/2006 6:41:16 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: NZerFromHK
it is deemed common sense over in Britain to believe that to maintain order in society, that government should do something "deemed sensible" in the way of combating disorder.

Because of this belief, explaining the US's Second Amendment might as well be talking to them in Malay.

I guess their definition of what is "deemed sensible" and mine must not have much commonality. To me, "doing something sensible in the way of combating disorder" would involve shall-issue concealed carry.

Actually it would probably involve a serviceable assault rifle (and a supply of ammunition) in the home of every law-abiding, stable citizen, too. That's what the Swiss do; it seems to work.

55 posted on 04/20/2006 6:45:36 AM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Malesherbes

Some months ago, someone posted TD's analysis about France's situation vis a vis the Muslim invasion/eventual takeover. Sobering reading, indeed.


56 posted on 04/20/2006 6:46:27 AM PDT by hershey
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To: ccmay

Wow. Way to go!


57 posted on 04/20/2006 6:47:56 AM PDT by hershey
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To: Uncledave
re :I couldn't agree more that it's a shell of it's former self. I don't want to return.

As a Londoner i have to say that is complete and utter bollox, London is a lot smarter and richer now, The whole of the Thames are for a start.

58 posted on 04/20/2006 6:52:22 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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To: Uncledave
Coming to a country near you.

Remember, the neo-comms want the US to be "more like Europe."
59 posted on 04/20/2006 6:54:49 AM PDT by Antoninus (I don't vote for liberals regardless of their party affiliation.)
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To: Campion
re :Original sin. But what I'm talking about is not "crime," but the British insistence that for a law-abiding citizen to defend himself against crime is somehow unacceptable.

No that is wrong, you are entitled to defend your self.

Tony Martin is always brought up and is always proved to be a bad example.

When Tony Martin shot those two intruders, they were running away from his house. Both were shot in the back.

Therefore it was deemed not self defense but revenge.

If he had shot them, in his house and claimed that they had surprised him, he would probably of got away with it.

Self defense is if you believe you or someone else is under attack.

I belted a bloke who was running at me with a bottle in the face with a metal dustbin lid, he went down nothing happened to me.

But if I then decided to give him a further lesson by battering him when he was on the floor I would of been done.

60 posted on 04/20/2006 6:57:15 AM PDT by tonycavanagh (We got plenty of doomsayers where are the truth sayers)
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