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How the GOP Lost Its Way
Washington Post ^ | April 22, 2006 | Craig Shirley

Posted on 04/21/2006 9:28:25 PM PDT by MC Miker G

The immigration reform debate has highlighted a long-standing fissure in the GOP between the elitist Rockefeller business wing and the party's conservative populist base. Whether the two groups can continue to coexist and preserve the Republican majority is increasingly doubtful as conservatives begin to consider -- and in some cases cheer -- the possibility that the GOP may lose control of Congress this fall.

The two camps are deeply divided. The business elites are interested in a large supply of cheap labor and support unfettered immigration and open borders. The populist base supports legal immigration but is concerned about lawlessness on our border, national sovereignty and the real security threat posed by porous borders.

There is nothing new about this division. It is a 40-year-old fight that has its roots in the cultural, economic, regional and ideological differences between the two camps. Still, most conservatives felt that after the victory of Ronald Reagan and the Republican Revolution of 1994 their point was made and the country-clubbers would know their place. They were wrong. The Rockefeller wing is now attempting to reassert its control over the party and is openly hostile toward the Reagan populists who created the Republican majority in the first place.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 109th; gop
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I dunno. Would they publish an op-ed that stated the opposite was the case?
1 posted on 04/21/2006 9:28:27 PM PDT by MC Miker G
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To: MC Miker G

...and please find me an actual Republican who wants the GOP to lose control of Congress.


2 posted on 04/21/2006 9:30:22 PM PDT by MC Miker G
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To: MC Miker G

GWB


3 posted on 04/21/2006 9:31:39 PM PDT by Brellium
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To: MC Miker G

Grand in name only.


4 posted on 04/21/2006 9:33:15 PM PDT by nikola
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To: MC Miker G
"The two camps are deeply divided. The business elites are interested in a large supply of cheap labor and support unfettered immigration and open borders. The populist base supports legal immigration but is concerned about lawlessness on our border, national sovereignty and the real security threat posed by porous borders."

So why isn't the "business camp" willing to accept secure borders, but push for loose immigration and work restrictions? Could it be because they know that if the border is secured, they wouldn't be able to get popular support for the idea of loosening restrictions? And if that's the case, then why should their views deserve any consideration, as though they have some kind of equally legitimate interest?

Would they publish an op-ed that stated the opposite was the case?

If the opposite actually was the case, I don't see any reason why they wouldn't.

5 posted on 04/21/2006 9:34:01 PM PDT by inquest (If you favor any legal status for illegal aliens, then do not claim to be in favor of secure borders)
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To: MC Miker G

They've been publishing editorials like this like twice a year.


6 posted on 04/21/2006 9:35:05 PM PDT by John Geyer
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To: MC Miker G
the elitist Rockefeller business wing and the party's conservative populist base

Dems have a similar problem with conflicts between their old Southern Democrat base and the extremist left-wacko wing.


If the old Southern Democrats and GOP conservative populist base ever joined forces, they could marginalize both the GOP elitist Rockefeller business wing and the Dem extremist left-wacko wing. Otherwise, it will be more of the same.
7 posted on 04/21/2006 9:42:51 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: MC Miker G

Whether the two groups can continue to coexist and preserve the Republican majority is increasingly doubtful as conservatives begin to consider -- and in some cases cheer -- the possibility that the GOP may lose control of Congress this fall.




Sometimes a little discipline is needed. If amnesty is to be made law, then to the woodshed they shall go.


8 posted on 04/21/2006 9:44:04 PM PDT by trubluolyguy (Procrastinators of the world UNITE!!!.....Tomorrow.)
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To: MC Miker G

Yes there are two camps, Ronald Reagan western, conservative, versus the North Eastern "Republicans" George Herbert Walker Bush (the senior).

As a conservative I know the fight within the Republicans is between the two elements, I also know that the media will always be there to encourage this fight.

But this is a battle within a hard nosed family, Democrats are still the enemy.


9 posted on 04/21/2006 9:44:52 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: MC Miker G
1 close the border

2 force votes to define legal immigration in terms of skills and wealth only.

3 force votes to clean up the budgeting process, start with eliminating earmarks.

4 force votes to repeal McCain-Feingold.

5 force votes to permit drilling at Anwar and in the Gulf of Mexico.

6 force votes to permit the construction of new oil refineries

7 force votes to permit the construction of nuclear power plants

8 veto pork until blood runs on the floor even if it means vetoeing massive appropriations measures

9 attack

10 repeat, attack


10 posted on 04/21/2006 9:50:27 PM PDT by nathanbedford
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To: ansel12
If the Republican elite let in 40 million, and let me say this again, 40 million poor, uneducated third worlders in the next 10 years with this amnesty plan.....there will be no need to fight any longer, because there will be NO Republican party.
11 posted on 04/21/2006 9:51:12 PM PDT by NHFREE
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To: nathanbedford
8 veto pork until blood runs on the floor even if it means vetoeing massive appropriations measures

Ouch! You're gonna make Senator Stevens cry again, if he doesn't get his bridge to nowhere.

Where is your compassion!!!!???!!!!
12 posted on 04/21/2006 9:53:21 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: MC Miker G

**YAWN***


13 posted on 04/21/2006 9:53:27 PM PDT by Siena Dreaming
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To: MC Miker G
If we practice our beliefs objectively, then to hell with the consequences in November, whatever they may be.

The inspired constituency of the party has done its part. If the party leadership breaks contract (as they often do), then there is no moral accountability on voters who abandon them - notwithstanding that we are the ones who would suffer most for such a loss. A belief that one's capacity to suffer is noble is a primary tenet that separates us from liberals.

Philosophy aside, it is in my own spiteful nature to inflict such petty revenge on those who betray. Hence, do not take my vote for granted.

14 posted on 04/21/2006 9:54:21 PM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: SteveMcKing

I thought the Republicans run the House of Representatives like it was a plantation. So we know that all good Democrats are against plantation politics.


15 posted on 04/21/2006 9:58:09 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego
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To: NHFREE

"If the Republican elite let in 40 million, and let me say this again, 40 million poor, uneducated third worlders in the next 10 years with this amnesty plan.....there will be no need to fight any longer, because there will be NO Republican party."

True, that is why my post makes so much sense.

The only party we have to fight with is the Republicans.

If we can dominate the Republican party we win, if we come in second within the party, we influence them heavily, if we drop out or do some third party thing, the media loves us and we become irrelevant to the challenges of our times.


16 posted on 04/21/2006 10:00:02 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: MC Miker G

Bump.


17 posted on 04/21/2006 10:05:33 PM PDT by TBP
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To: ansel12
It won't be easy.....our leadership is corrupted on almost every federal and state level. They are within a week of passing this amnesty, that's it. And if they pass it next week, the ballgame is over. Demography is destiny.
18 posted on 04/21/2006 10:05:39 PM PDT by NHFREE
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To: TomGuy
If the old Southern Democrats and GOP conservative populist base ever joined forces, they could marginalize both the GOP elitist Rockefeller business wing and the Dem extremist left-wacko wing. Otherwise, it will be more of the same.

I so pray this will happen . . . . .

19 posted on 04/21/2006 10:05:48 PM PDT by p23185 (Being trashed by the Stone Age Press should be worn as a badge of honor by Repubs and Conservatives)
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To: TomGuy; ansel12
I know what you mean, Stevens has become a laughingstock of the Senate and a liability to the whole party.

I also agree with Ansell 12 that unchecked immigration not only means the end of the Republican Party but the death of conservatism.

If one accepts the author's dichotomy in the Republican Party between the Rockefeller wing and the Reagan wing, one could easily make the argument that country club Republicans, who see America mainly as a corporate vehicle to ride in the rush toward globalization, are utterly unmoved by Reagan's insight about the lethal danger of unchecked immigration.


20 posted on 04/21/2006 10:06:48 PM PDT by nathanbedford
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To: SteveMcKing

There is nothing noble about an American voter refusing to vote.

When the elections are over, either Democrats or Republicans will run the country.

The fight is about how much control of one of those parties we have.


21 posted on 04/21/2006 10:08:13 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
"There is nothing noble about an American voter refusing to vote."

I will not be patronized by a game that's unwinnable- a system designed only to pacify the enlightened and angry, and never award due satisfaction.

22 posted on 04/21/2006 10:15:16 PM PDT by SteveMcKing
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To: ansel12
The fight is about how much control of one of those parties we have.

Perhaps we should consider that battle lost and it is time to have the GOPs go the way of the Whigs.

23 posted on 04/21/2006 10:17:04 PM PDT by eskimo (Political groupies - rabid defenders of the indefensible.)
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To: ansel12
No, Republicans have endorsed too many RINOs.
Stupid to run to the "center", when the center is socialist, and is anti-USA.

We are supposedly free to elect representatives to government office.

Anyone feeling free, nowadays?
24 posted on 04/21/2006 10:19:59 PM PDT by sarasmom
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To: NHFREE

"It won't be easy.....our leadership is corrupted on almost every federal and state level. They are within a week of passing this amnesty, that's it. And if they pass it next week, the ballgame is over. Demography is destiny."


Your post perfectly sums up how I feel, frankly I'm at a very low point on our options right now, we helped put the Republicans in power, and while it helped slow the bleeding , it didn't reverse anything(maybe a couple of things).

It isn't that we are so pure and those politicians are so corrupt, it is that government is real life, it is like the ocean versus the land, the struggle never stops.

This isn't a sporting event where we fight, and the winner celebrates, this is more like a confused knife fight in a totally dark alley, that goes on forever.


25 posted on 04/21/2006 10:23:52 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: nathanbedford

Good plan.. its unreal we can't even bulid nuke plants for example when the republicans control all branches.

I'm beginning to think that the republican party was in opposition for so long that they can't really govern - besides on military issues. They got some tax cuts through, but then borrowed money to make up the gap in funding.

When I hear them speak they sound like an opposition party trying to slow down the Democrat agenda. Like Dennis Hastert's editorial on why the tax system is over-complicated and his ideas for a simple system. This same guy was the house majority leader and couldn't even stop the rising complexity of the tax code. It seems he is more natural as an opposition leader criticizing the ruling party's mistakes.


26 posted on 04/21/2006 10:29:43 PM PDT by ran15
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To: SteveMcKing
I will not be patronized by a game that's unwinnable- a system designed only to pacify the enlightened and angry, and never award due satisfaction.

That is my feeling too. As long as there are elections people's ideas for how to change society are always related to electing their favorite party. But voting is only one of many ways of changing a society.. and one of the least effective.

27 posted on 04/21/2006 10:31:52 PM PDT by ran15
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To: ansel12
What's different this time is that if the borders are open in such a way as to let in 20, 40, 50 million people in less than a decade, then all bets are off. It will literally be a new world order.....lol, where have we heard that before.
28 posted on 04/21/2006 10:34:53 PM PDT by NHFREE
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To: ran15
When the Republicans trumped Slick in the legislature, he resorted to regulation to impose socialism and, more important to Clinton, enabled him to steal the initiative and keep the party going.

It is utterly infuriating that a party which controls three of the federal branches and has only the press to contend with, cannot put one foot in front of the other.


29 posted on 04/21/2006 10:38:45 PM PDT by nathanbedford (Attack, repeat, Attack..... Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford
"5 force votes to permit drilling at Anwar and in the Gulf of Mexico. "

Last time I checked, we ALREADY drill for oil in the Gulf of Mexico. Perhaps you mean the Pacific Ocean off of California?

"9 attack 10 repeat, attack "

Attack who?- California? ( I'll go with that!)

30 posted on 04/21/2006 10:41:29 PM PDT by de Buillion (The USA needs a CONSERVATIVE political party NOW! (republicans don't qualify))
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To: MC Miker G

"...and please find me an actual Republican who wants the GOP to lose control of Congress."

I would rather have 41 conservative Senators, as a base to build on, that would prevent the Democrats from passing their agenda than 60 Republican Senators who assist the Democrats in passing their agenda.


31 posted on 04/21/2006 10:49:50 PM PDT by Prokopton
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To: MC Miker G

"the possibility that the GOP may lose control of Congress this fall."

It's called an ELECTION.

When you have an ELECTION all outcomes are POSSIBLE.
(I don't mean personally to you)

The way the left is salivating about November, shows what desperate gluttons for power they are after the American people have been rejecting them since that out of control sick pervert Clinton was reelected way back in 1996.

It makes one wonder what will happen to them if the Republicans actually pull off gains in November.


32 posted on 04/21/2006 10:52:01 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: de Buillion
No I mean drill off Florida. Castro will soon be out there on a rig, off our coast, laughing his ass at our myopia.

Bull Halsey, who should get the credit for the order, "attack, repeat, attack," never was in doubt about who was the enemy. The author's point is that the Republican party and especially its Rockefeller wing is confused about that. I agree. Start with House and Senate Rats. Take on the environmentalists who have bequeathed us $75 oil.


33 posted on 04/21/2006 10:52:07 PM PDT by nathanbedford (Attack, repeat, Attack..... Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford

You can't just blame enviromentalists for oil, they are nut job commies, the republicans bought the s- they were selling. Plus Bush invaded an oil rich nation and let them stay in OPEC.


34 posted on 04/21/2006 10:54:09 PM PDT by RHINO369
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To: nathanbedford

Good example.. the Democrats have balls when it comes to getting domestic things they want done. Like the Elian Gonzales issue, which even some Democrats were against.

There have been multiple cases I have read of where a guerilla movement fights for so long, and eventually wins.. But then have trouble actually running things, and soon are replaced.

You know what the Dems would do if the media was against them? They'd deny liscences to broadcast, send the IRS after the companies, sue them over equality issues, and so on. The thing every media person cares about more then ideology is money. They would fall in line within a few months, their major shareholders would demand it.

Its not pretty, but its playing hardball.


35 posted on 04/21/2006 10:57:39 PM PDT by ran15
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To: NHFREE


"What's different this time is that if the borders are open in such a way as to let in 20, 40, 50 million people in less than a decade, then all bets are off. It will literally be a new world order.....lol, where have we heard that before."



Frankly it is worse than you are stating, but the answer is we fight.

To me the only true gains to be made with immigration is within the Republican party.

You decide what kind of people you want to run the party then you spend the rest of your life trying to get them there.

What a lot of people forget is, even though we are in a living hell, this is the best era for conservatives since at least the 1920s.

When you absorb that , you realize this may be bigger that your lifetime.


36 posted on 04/21/2006 11:07:21 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: MC Miker G
"and please find me an actual Republican who wants the GOP to lose control of Congress."


I definitely don't want to lose control but since this is the subject let's just examine what the scenario would actually be like...

Democrats win control of Congress and you know big on their to do list will be to start impeachment hearings against President Bush.

That is actually good, because we are still at war against Terror and even though the American people might be upset about gas prices, there is definitely not a mood to go so far as impeach the President for Iraq.

Just look at that sick jerk Clinton. Clinton actually did break laws that are an impeachable offense yet the MSM was able to control public opinion with fake polls and spin about "this is really a private matter about sex."

No it wasn't about "a private matter of sex", it was lying under oath in a court of law. Just look at what they are doing to Scooter Libby for allegedly not being completely forth right with just a grand jury!

So the MSM controlled projected the sentiment that saved Clinton from being fully kicked out of office. The American people did not support that enough for it to happen.

Now look at President Bush with Iraq. There is absolutely no way possible that the MSM is going to convince America that Bush should be impeached over Iraq. And if the Democrats get power on Congress, you know those gluttonous slobs won't be able to control themselves and will move against Bush with impeachment while their agents in the MSM do fake polls and write BS articles trying to spin and convince Americans that Bush needs to be impeached.

But unlike with Clinton when they has success and "a private matter of sex", with Bush and Iraq they will totally fail and not realize it until it is too late and the Democrats had already gone too far and have actually earned the,mselves the displeasure of the American people.

Then in the next election Republicans will be thrust back into power and the Democrats brief 2 years of control will actually doom them for another 10 years.

That is what we are looking at IF the American people make the mistake of entrusting the Democrats with power this coming November.
37 posted on 04/21/2006 11:10:09 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (ETERNAL SHAME on the Treasonous and Immoral Democrats!)
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To: RHINO369
Clearly the environmentalists are not wholly responsible for our energy dilemma but one cannot deny that they have contributed more than their share to our plight.

With nuclear power we could move away from coal and gas (although the latter is clean and the former is on the verge of producing new technology which should make it clean) and produce electricity with clean and safe nuclear reactors. The president has called for a hydrogen fuel cell breakthrough and it certainly seems to this layperson that hydrogen if produced by electricity which in turn is produced not with hydrocarbons but with uranium, will in fact be clean and not just an exercise in pushing the pollution upstream

I say force votes on these issues and expose the enviromentalists and their Democrat spear carriers to the wrath of every voter, whose indignation is refreshed everytime he fills 'er up.

I just this minute heard the president call for reduced driving as a matter of national security. How many of the 11 to 30 million illegal immigrants are consuming gasoline and contributing to our national insecurity?


38 posted on 04/21/2006 11:13:30 PM PDT by nathanbedford (Attack, repeat, Attack..... Bull Halsey)
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To: nathanbedford
I don't think we'll have hydrogen fuel in cars. Its just not practical. Its just an expensive battery of sorts. With the improvements in capacitors we might be able to just use a bunch of really large capacitors to store energy. The good thing about them is all you need to do is charge them from any power source. They charge very fast and then it won't require any new infrastructure.

You can thank the star wars program for large capacitors because the technology really progressed because the government funded research to build capacitors for the large amount of energy they'd need to melt a nuclear missile with a laser from space.
39 posted on 04/21/2006 11:19:30 PM PDT by RHINO369
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To: ansel12
The fight always goes on, but if an amnesty of this magnitude comes it would literally erase what we have come to know as the United States. So yes....we would still be here to fight for our values, but we will be living in a political environment, and a nation, that is alien to those values.

Then the "fight" becomes a value in and of itself.....and expression, if you will, of all we hold dear. But in a practical sense, we will be submerged. After all, where is Rhodesia now ?
40 posted on 04/21/2006 11:26:28 PM PDT by NHFREE
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To: MC Miker G

"and please find me an actual Republican who wants the GOP to lose control of Congress."

I don't want them to lose control, but right now I would like to give allot of them a really good swift kick in the butt to remind them why they were sent there.


41 posted on 04/21/2006 11:29:09 PM PDT by Herakles (Liberals are stone stupid and proud of it!)
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To: MC Miker G
"Whether the two groups can continue to coexist and preserve the Republican majority is increasingly doubtful as conservatives begin to consider -- and in some cases cheer -- the possibility that the GOP may lose control of Congress this fall."

Like it or not, from the WAPO or not, the truth is the truth.

There is an old Russian adage as to what makes a peasant happy? Answer, that his neighbor's (RINO's) ox would die.

I will not lift a finger to support a RINO GOP, let their damnable ox die.
42 posted on 04/21/2006 11:30:12 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
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To: NHFREE

I keep agreeing with you about the seriousness of the problem, I even said it is worse than you are saying.


WHAT SOLUTION ARE YOU OFFERING, GIVE ME A DIRECTION TO MOVE IN, WHAT IS THE ANSWER, WHAT DO YOU SUGGEST?


YES I KNOW ABOUT RHODESIA, AND SOUTH AFRICA.



what


43 posted on 04/21/2006 11:40:52 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Ursus arctos horribilis

"There is an old Russian adage as to what makes a peasant happy? Answer, that his neighbor's (RINO's) ox would die.'


A fine description of radical leftist religion.


44 posted on 04/21/2006 11:45:37 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: de Buillion

Last time I checked, we ALREADY drill for oil in the Gulf of Mexico."

Oh, you mean like the millions of acres off the coast of FL? /S


45 posted on 04/21/2006 11:47:29 PM PDT by Ursus arctos horribilis
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To: RHINO369
I recall a few months ago an article on these threads describing a "breakthrough" by Toshiba in lithium-ion batteries which the company describes as being the perfect for for automobiles. These batteries are supposed to be capable of being charged in the briefest of time, shorter than the time normally required to fill your tank. I followed the technology for a short time in the hopes of making an investment but lost track. Posters here more knowledgeable than I speculated on the size of the "firehose" which would be required to produce such a volume of charging power.

Whether lithium-ion or capacitors it occurs that nuclear reactors present the best option for producing the juice. Am I on track here?


46 posted on 04/21/2006 11:52:27 PM PDT by nathanbedford (Attack, repeat, Attack..... Bull Halsey)
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To: ansel12
I'm saying there may not be an answer this time, that like Rome, like Rhodesia, like South Africa, our time is ending. Until it ends, of course we fight. But the West is very sick psychologically, and spiritually.

This is not just about the Republican party, which is weak, or the Democratic party, which is vile....but about America, Europe, the whole Western world.

You still think the Republican party is a vehicle we can use, and perhaps it still is, I do not know any longer. I have worked for the Republican state party here for over 20 years, but I no longer think it can be reformed,

So I have no hard & firm answers...only the belief that great troubles are coming, and that the Republican party as we know it is not capable of addressing them.
47 posted on 04/21/2006 11:53:45 PM PDT by NHFREE
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To: MC Miker G

... And stop calling me Shirley!

Mark


48 posted on 04/22/2006 12:03:37 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: ran15
They got some tax cuts through, but then borrowed money to make up the gap in funding.

If I remember correctly, those tax cuts actually led to greater revenues coming in to the government.

The reason for the borrowing is that the party of "fiscal conservativism" has been acting like a drunken 18 year old with his daddy's platinum card at the moonlight bunny ranch!

Mark

49 posted on 04/22/2006 12:11:07 AM PDT by MarkL (When Kaylee says "No power in the `verse can stop me," it's cute. When River says it, it's scary!)
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To: MC Miker G
and please find me an actual Republican who wants the GOP to lose control of Congress.

I'll try to if you will find me an actual American citizen with true conservative moral/fiscal values who loves what his country was more than his stock portfolio, who will vote for those Republicans that are turning what was a great nation into a slum section in the Global Community.

Our country, our security, our Constitution and the future of our children are being sacrificed just to be sure the Corporate world and the rich elite can have a world full of economic slaves.

50 posted on 04/22/2006 12:11:46 AM PDT by mississippi red-neck (You will never win the war on terrorism by fighting it in Iraq and funding it in the West Bank.)
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