You do see more "social justice" republicans. It's the liberal definition of "social justice" being used here.
Posted on 04/22/2006 10:47:13 AM PDT by Crackingham
The national immigration debate is muddying Republican relations with Roman Catholics - coveted swing voters who comprise about one-quarter of the electorate. While Catholic bishops and many Republican politicians share opposition to abortion, they're often split over the specifics of immigration reform. Church leaders are challenging - and in some cases even vowing to defy - the tougher enforcement proposals by GOP lawmakers.
The issue highlights the roadblocks that the Catholic worldview creates for Republicans and Democrats. Catholics are generally conservative on personal issues such as marriage, but tend to be liberal on social justice problems, limiting the appeal of both major parties and leaving Catholics "politically homeless," said the Rev. James L. Heft, president of the Institute of Advanced Catholic Studies at the University of Southern California.
"I'd like to see more pro-life Democrats," Heft said, "and social justice Republicans."
Immigration is not the first issue to split GOP and Catholic leaders. Pope John Paul II opposed the U.S.-led war on Iraq and the death penalty, for example. But these latest differences have emerged only months before much of the Republican-controlled Congress is up for re-election, and when the GOP and Catholics had seemed closer than ever.
"Right now, a higher proportion of Catholic voters (than in the past) would identify with the Republican Party, or some of the themes that the Republican candidates have been using," said David Leege, a professor emeritus at the University of Notre Dame and an expert on Catholics and politics. But the impact of the immigration debate is unclear. "The jury is out on the Catholic vote in long run," Leege said.
Catholics, once solidly Democratic, have been moving toward the Republican Party for the last 25 years or so. When struggling Catholics established themselves financially, they started voting less according to religious ties and more according to economic interests. The Democrats' embrace of abortion rights also drew them to GOP candidates.
President Bush, a Methodist, won the 2004 Catholic vote 52 percent to 47 percent over Democratic nominee John F. Kerry, who is Catholic. Leading up to the election, bishops had warned Catholic lawmakers they risk "cooperating in evil" if they vote for candidates supporting abortion rights. Church leaders insisted their position was nonpartisan, yet the timing of their statements was clearly a boon to Republicans since Kerry backs abortion rights.
But now, many of these same bishops are accusing GOP lawmakers of lacking compassion for illegal migrants. St. Louis Archbishop Raymond Burke, who said in 2004 he would refuse to give Holy Communion to Kerry, was among many church leaders who organized recent rallies in favor of giving undocumented workers a chance at citizenship. Burke noted that American Catholics were immigrants themselves, and that by welcoming migrants, "we obey the command of Our Lord, who tells us that when we welcome the stranger, we welcome Christ Himself."
Rep. James Sensenbrenner, a Republican from Wisconsin, galvanized Catholic opposition by sponsoring legislation that the House passed in December that would make it a felony to be in the country illegally and making it a crime to help illegal immigrants.
Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony said his priests would disobey such a law. Successive popes, including John Paul II, have stressed that nations with the resources to accommodate people fleeing persecution or economic hardship have a moral obligation to do so - regardless of legal status. About 30 percent of the nearly 65 million U.S. Catholics are Hispanic, and the church has an extensive social service network for migrants.
Catholics in AP-Ipsos polling were more likely than Protestants and white evangelicals to support allowing immigrants to be temporary workers and to oppose making it a serious crime to be in this country without documentation.
This is by design.
Bush pretty transparently made a play for hispanic votes in both elections, based on the notion that if only a couple percent shift to the GOP, we could lock in a permanent majority.
He did well among hispanics, comparatively speaking, both times.
We all see Bush as giving away the store on immigration issues, but the DNC has painted him as anti-hispanic, which we all know is the precise opposite of the truth. This is a DNC ploy, and it is having the desired effect of slowing the loss of catholic votes to the Repubs.
"and social justice Republicans."
I don't think the lowerarchy of the Catholic Church is in jeopardy here -- just the hierarchy, and only a portion of that. That's what, 16 votes? Nothing to see here, folks; move along to something interesting. Catholics are, rank-and-file, solid Americans; and solid Americans do not like easy borders or playing fast and loose with our laws and sanctified sovereignty.
Agreed.
Demo spin....DESPERATE demo spin.
Islamofascists didn't exist when the Lord said this.
Exodus 23:31 (Whole Chapter) "I will establish your borders from the Red Sea [ Hebrew Yam Suph; that is, Sea of Reeds ] to the Sea of the Philistines, [ That is, the Mediterranean ] and from the desert to the River. [ That is, the Euphrates ] I will hand over to you the people who live in the land and you will drive them out before you.
"2241 ...Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants'duties toward their country of adoption. Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens."
Catholic Catechism, courtesy of Zetman
I never hear them talk numbers when they talk about this issue.
I hear the demagogues saying that Americans oppose immigration because America fears becoming racially mixed, and this kind of calumny goes unanswered. Republicans should be out front on this issue, we've got to quit being embarrassed when the "racist" epithet is thrown about.
We admit a million immigrants every year, year in and year out, legally. The largest single fraction, about 200,000, are from Mexico. A racist country doesn't allow a million legal immigrants every year. A nation that is prejudiced against Mexicans doesn't allow 200,000 to come in every year, with permanent residency, with all the rights and privileges of citizenship except for voting (and 5 years later, they can have that if they want it).
The next time someone accuses us of racism, for wanting to limit the illegal flow, I wish just once someone would ask, how many should we admit? Because I assure you that few people understand that we admit a million a year, legally.
And then ask why it is that one of the wealthiest oil producers on this earth bleeds 3/4 million of its citizens every year.
This gopes to the heart of the matter. The illegals are filing up Church pews in the southwst and elsewhere. Most of the illegals are devout Catholics. THe same cannot be said of Americans who call themselves Catholic. A lot fewer of that group actually attend Mass or even provide any financial support for the Catholic church. Supporting immigration reform means losing tithing members. Ergo, the church aids illegal immigration.
No, but their forebears in the form of the Persians and murderous Arab tribes did.
That said, Christ *also* told us that people shouldn't emulate rugs and get walked over.
Luke 22:36: "Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. "
Matthew 10:34: "Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword."
Amen Brother!
Most Catholics are against the illegal aliens being given amnesty and controlling our borders by the government!
However, it is a waste of time to even try and discuss this issue with the Priest in our parish or the local Bishops!
If you try to have a rationale, calm and logical discussion with any of these clergyman, you are deniqrated and belittled and accused of lacking charity and compassion! When I posed the question with regard to the End justifying the means with regard to illegal aliens, the conversation was abruptly ended!
The first line of clergy are bound by the vow of obedience in Holy Orders to their bishops. If they do not tow the party line, their career is in jeopardy!
Clerical Losers (After Benedict XVI, liberal American church leaders are learning about penance) (excerpt)
If there were any "losers" in the election of Pope Benedict XVI, they certainly will not be found among the faithful, or the Latin American or African Catholic churches. No, the biggest losers are here in the United States, where influential, liberal Catholic priests who have actively and publicly defied the Vatican, along with several Cardinals selected late in the reign of Pope John Paul II, find themselves in a bit of a political pickle.
"Pope Benedict knows better than any one else who the trouble makers are in the United States, and he knows who has worked against the Church's teachings there," says an ordained source at the Vatican. "You will be seeing changes soon."
This is AP disinformation, designed to split Republicans and get them fighting with each other.
Church-going Catholics who vote Republican aren't going to pay any attention to the bishops on this matter. And dissident Catholics who vote for abortion-loving Democrats are going to vote Democrat in any case.
There is most certainly a problem with Bush and immigration, but it has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.
Imagration reality check
Seems to me everyone has missed the true cause of our current illegal immigration situation.
We need more young people in America.
Our Country is about 30 million shy on the younger generation. The USA is the oldest developed country that has ever survived.
The USA has an average age around 40 years old. Every other developing Country on this planets age comes in around 23.
We are dying out. In 30 years our population will be mostly dead or dying.We are not reproducing at a rate that can repopulate our Country.
Ever wonder why nothing, and I mean nothing is being done about the insane amount of people coming over our borders? This is NOT an accident, they are allowed in for a reason. The reason is, we need an influx of youth into America. We need these people to repopulate our Country, and as luck would have they are Catholic. What good fortune, they do not believe in abortion.
Like it or not Roe has caused this crisis. America has aborted it's future. Since its inexplicable inception Roe V Wade has removed 40 to 50 Million legal citizens from our population. This has directly led to the current illegal alien problem. The guys that run this Country /economy know we are in deep dodo.
I am not pro-abortion nor am I in the "everythimg must live" camp, but the facts are America has Pro-choiced it's self into oblivion.It will take another 20 years after Roe is overturned to correct this situation and make America whole.
I guess I will have to wait for History to prove me right, so be it. America is changing, the Mexicans are coming with their kids cause we refuse to. To every illegal in my country, thank you for keeping the dream alive through your children, because we are too sophisticated and smart to see the writing on the wall.
Ask not America for whom the border is breached, it's breached for any hope of a future.
Amen Brother!
Cardinal Mahony is the Emperor of the Diocese of Los Angeles! Mahony makes up his own Theology and decides what laws of the country and the church that he will obey!
When Mahony is party to obstructing justice dealing with priest who are accused of pedophilia, doesn't that make him a complicit in that crime?
What would happen to us mere mortals, if we were party to covering up a crime?
Illegal aliens are actually not all that devout. Most are only nominal Catholics, and the low vocational(ones who go into the priesthood) bear this out.
History will prove you wrong, DEAD WRONG, as this influx causes the political nature of the US to shift dramatically, as it did to California in the 90s. Let the politics of California be what you will see nationally if this insanity is not staopped. All the Hispanic legislators in California from mostly Hispanic districts voting records are almost identical, especially on social issues, to that of white liberals. They are pro abortion and pro gay marriage. The invasion you advocate will be the end of any chance Conservatism could have on a national level.
Within the last two weeks Howard Dean has threaten churches with loss of their tax exempt status if they were involved in policies.
Is Dean threatening the Catholic Church in The United States?
Since we are a 50-50 country, we are skating as fast as we can, while the ice breaks up around our feet.
You do see more "social justice" republicans. It's the liberal definition of "social justice" being used here.
One correction. The fertility rate of American women is 2.1 percent. Just replacement rate. So our native population is not imploding like Europe's.
However, we do have the boomer spike. And I agree with much of what you say about needing an increased number of immigrants. Our population should be growing, not staying the same.
But folks jump from your point to the notion that we should just continue the flood of illegals or guest workers. Either is completely the wrong way to do it. It creates an underclass of the kids of illegals and guest workers who are american citizens but grow up, effectively, fugitives who don't speak the language.
The dems are, of course, salivating at the notion of another government-dependent, dark-skinned, underclass of citizens. But we should be looking at higher levels of authorized immigration for citizenship, where they are chosen by qualification, and demonstrate proficiency in English and Civics. In other words, our goal should be to FORCE immigrants to buy into the social contract. They will then, en masse, become good citizens as many waves of immigrants have before.
The only way to make that work is to SEAL our border with Mexico, not fly a few more drones and have some symbolic raids. Seal it. Once we do that, everything else will get a lot easier on this issue.
But until the border is sealed, no acceptable political result is possible. No result that does not turn America into a third-world, socialist nation is possible. That's why the dems are so opposed to sealing the border and to losing bi-lingual education and other measures that ghettoize hispanic residents. Dems would rather rule a third-world socialist country than be a minority party in America.
I agree. Until the border is secure, there are no changes in immigration policy that will work. Once the border is secure, we can talk about what to do, lots of possibilities become viable. Once the border is secure, the problem becomes solvable.
If our government, from either party, is unwilling and unable to secure the border, don't ask me to trust them on immigration policy. If you won't secure the border, any immigration policy we come up with is just so much paper.
This Catholic wants our borders closed and the illegal infiltrators deported.
Most of my Catholic friends feel the same.
Of course if I were to go to the spanish mass I might find a majority who are sympathetic to illegals. (Most likely because many of them ARE illegal).
I doubt very seriously if the Church is planning on a financial windfall from illegal immigrants. Those folks don't make that much money to begin with, and if they're sending most of it to the folks back home, it is not going in the collection plate.
Ping!
You got that right!
I only speak for myself and I simply stated the fact that Islam was more than six hundred years into the future at the time Christ walked the earth, and in my opinion any infidel who welcomes an Islamofascist into his home is a fool.
You're dead right on this. The Mexicans are laughing knowingly about "the browning of America" and our leaders from both sides are helping to bring that about. Looks like if we live long enough, we'll all have "dark-skinned" great grandchildren, and predominantly white America will be history. Does that make us racists to not want to see that?
Ping for later
And too many American bishops are notorious for their leftist social mentality. It's been that way for at least forty years. I don't think the rank and file Catholic cares what the bishops say or think unless it refers directly to issues of self interest.
Just when the bishops were beginning to recover from the pedophile scandal, they once again behave with the same self serving corruption.
No. The bishops aren't going to sway anyone on this.
There are a lot of urban parishes that were in Irish/Italian Catholic neighborhoods 50 years ago but in Black Baptist neighborhoods now that are being kept alive almost entirely by immigrants.
If it means you'd rather have white great grandchildren at any cost (which, by the way, my ancestors w/ hispanic surnames have been classified as "W" on birth certificates and census for eons), including if you'd rather have Jeffery Dahmer for a son-in-law than Henry Bonilla in order to just keep having "white" great grandchildren, then, yes, it is racist.
This "ordained source" was engaged in wishful thinking. Benedict did not make any major changes in his first year in the papacy, and likely won't make any, other than to accept the normal resignations from bishops who turn 75.
Anybody who thinks Benedict is opposing his US bishops on the immigration issue better think again.
They are not going to sway anyone who has his mind made up. There are many Catholics who don't have strong feelings about immigration, one way or the other. They might influence those folks.
But, in general, you're right. Catholics make up their own minds about most subjects, including such things as artificial contraception and the death penalty.
How many good Catholics actually take bishops seriously who recruit their priests from NAMBLA?
Agreed but serves to illustrate a schism in the Catholic hierarchy totally ignored by Zoll in her analysis.
Another comment from a Jack Chick disciple.
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