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What Was Behind the Big Raid(Illegals)
L A Times ^ | April 22, 2006 | Nicole Gaouette

Posted on 04/22/2006 11:06:00 AM PDT by radar101

When Peter Smith, a senior immigration enforcement agent in upstate New York, led the raid on a cavernous IFCO Systems wood products plant just outside of Albany this week, he was taken aback by what he saw.

"There was a lot of drilling, cutting, dismantling of old pallets, pneumatic nail guns, power saws. Most of these guys were working in jeans, tennis shoes, short-sleeve shirts; some had sawdust in their hair," he said. "No legal facility would let workers work in those conditions."

The plant, which opened in 2004, specializes in pallet retrieval and recycling, and has listed Target Corp. and Best Buy Co. as among its customers.

The investigation began with an insider's tip: IFCO workers at the Guilderland plant were seen tearing up their W-2 tax forms, and a company manager explained that they were illegal immigrants and would not be paying taxes.

A day later, immigration officials got a tip that IFCO managers were arranging for illegal immigrants to be transported from Texas to the New York plant.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderlist; ice; ifco; illegalaliens; illegalimmigration; illegals; immigrantlist
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The raid was because the workers were being abused--not because they drag down our Standard of Living.
1 posted on 04/22/2006 11:06:03 AM PDT by radar101
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To: radar101

>>Most of these guys were working in jeans, tennis shoes, short-sleeve shirts; some had sawdust in their hair,"<<

Oh Dear!


2 posted on 04/22/2006 11:08:56 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: radar101

>>federal investigators put together a picture of how IFCO managers allegedly bent, broke and ignored the rules.<

Imagine what they would find if they looked at the White House. Violations too numerous to list.


3 posted on 04/22/2006 11:12:17 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: radar101

Why hire illegals to do this work? If illegals can work under these conditions we can get children to do the work for even less.


4 posted on 04/22/2006 11:13:08 AM PDT by manwiththehands ("'Rule of law'? We don't need not stinkin' rule of law! We want AMNESTY, muchacho!")
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To: radar101

Politics.


5 posted on 04/22/2006 11:14:17 AM PDT by TBP
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To: B4Ranch

In other words, they were not following OSHA rules for workplace safety. But I guess following basic safety rules is too much for you, regardless of whether or not it's illegals that's involved.


6 posted on 04/22/2006 11:14:22 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: radar101
It sounds as if organized tax evasion may also have been a factor. We could do worse, the IRS took out Scarface Capone. Personally, I don't care what reason ICE chooses, as long as they get the job done.
7 posted on 04/22/2006 11:16:58 AM PDT by singfreedom ("Victory at all costs,.......for without victory there is no survival."--Churchill--that's "Winston")
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To: manwiththehands

Well. there's a coincidence. My 12 year old is looking to do light housework and yard work for extra spending cash. Yeserday, I told her to put on her flyers that she is cheaper than illegals and she speaks English.


8 posted on 04/22/2006 11:17:32 AM PDT by Betty Jane
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To: B4Ranch
Most of the guys were working in jeans,tennis shoes,short-sleeve shirts;some had sawdust in their hair

Sounds like EVERY building construction site I have ever been too.

9 posted on 04/22/2006 11:19:34 AM PDT by builder (I don't want a piece of someone else's pie)
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To: manwiththehands

"Why hire illegals to do this work? If illegals can work under these conditions we can get children to do the work for even less."

Boy, is that a great point. With the illegals making all workplace laws moot, why not employ children? Even better, illegal slave children! ! !


10 posted on 04/22/2006 11:22:07 AM PDT by FastCoyote
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To: doc30

IFCO would have had to supply these men with hardhats and workboots, not something they would choose to do.

Have you ever worked on a ranch? Strung a barbed wire fence on rough ground? Tennis shoes, jeans, t-shirts and gloves are the common attire for the working owners.


11 posted on 04/22/2006 11:23:50 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: radar101
"There was a lot of drilling, cutting, dismantling of old pallets, pneumatic nail guns, power saws. Most of these guys were working in jeans, tennis shoes, short-sleeve shirts; some had sawdust in their hair," he said. "No legal facility would let workers work in those conditions."

Well, the short sleeve shirts are probably against the OSHA rules, but are also probably fairly common. The tennis shoes OTOH, are stupid in such an environment, but also arean't unheard of in perfectly legal facilities. Jeans are plenty of protection (practically speaking), and I defy anyone to work in such an environment,legal or illegal, *without* getting sawdust in their hair.

No mention is made of probably the most important safety item for such work, eye protection.

FWIW, I worked in a plant that made wood windows and doors, in the lumber mill part of the operation. I wore a T shirt, jeans and leather, but non steel toed, shoes. No eye protection, no hard hard, nada. That was the summer of '68. We had a few injured workers, as a result of their extracurricular, and quite drunken activities while off work.

12 posted on 04/22/2006 11:26:04 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: B4Ranch

I work in jeans and sometimes T shirts and sneakers. In the summer I may even wear short at work. BTW I work in a high tech product development group. As for having sawdust in my hair.... if I only had hair....

Has the world lost it's sense of perspective and proportion?


13 posted on 04/22/2006 11:26:45 AM PDT by Dutch Boy
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To: radar101

Bush's low poll numbers is the reason for this raid, IMO.


14 posted on 04/22/2006 11:26:57 AM PDT by texastoo ("trash the treaties")
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To: All
"As many as 53% of IFCO's 3,500 workers nationwide were using invalid Social Security numbers."

This W-2 earnings info submitted by the company has piled up year-after-year in the SSA's Earnings Suspense File of unmatched SSN data.

This company is not alone. There are tens of thousands of companies submitting W-2 earnings data with millions of unmatched SSNs.

It's lying politician pukes' B.S. that Washington doesn't know who they are.

We don't need shiny new high-tech SSN cards that go PING!

WE NEED ENFORCEMENT!

15 posted on 04/22/2006 11:37:03 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Globalism: a Marxist revolution from the top down? The Third Way loves it.)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

Can I propose the next raid be on Tyson Foods?


16 posted on 04/22/2006 11:41:44 AM PDT by Ingtar (Prensa dos para el inglés)
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To: radar101
"About 1,200 workers were arrested on suspicion of being illegal immigrants, and seven IFCO managers were charged with immigration-related crimes...

...One result was the filing of criminal charges against seven IFCO managers including Robert Belvin, James Rice and Dario Salzano of the Guilderland facility; Abelino Chicas, an assistant general manager in Houston; and Michael Ames, a general manager at a Boston-area plant. The company says it has placed the managers on temporary leave.

These guys consider themselves Americans?
You can't tell me that upper management didn't know what was going on. One walk through one plant would tell you the story.
Also, you'll hear how hard working these people are. What they actually mean is that they work for peanuts and don't complain.

17 posted on 04/22/2006 11:42:12 AM PDT by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
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To: radar101
The investigation began with an insider's tip: IFCO workers at the Guilderland plant were seen tearing up their W-2 tax forms, and a company manager explained that they were illegal immigrants and would not be paying taxes.

Not precisely correct. They would not be filing tax returns. You think the government gives the money withheld from their paychecks back to the company if an employee doesn't file a return? Heck given that their pay was low, they probably would have gotten most or all of it back, perhaps even more under the earned income tax credit.

18 posted on 04/22/2006 11:42:56 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: radar101

Pardon my cynicism, but I wonder if this raid wasn't the result of IFCO Systems not contributing $$$'s into some pol's coffers.

Before anyone decides to flame me, think Tyson. Then think Bill Gates, and heaven knows who else the goverment has leaned on!


19 posted on 04/22/2006 11:44:42 AM PDT by Humidston (Congress is like the Mafia - NO PAY, NO PLAY.)
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To: FastCoyote
Boy, is that a great point. With the illegals making all workplace laws moot, why not employ children? Even better, illegal slave children! ! !

Freakin' great idea! We can import Chinese kids to do it and we'd be culturally sensitive to their traditions.

20 posted on 04/22/2006 11:45:57 AM PDT by thegreatbeast (Quid lucrum istic mihi est?)
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To: B4Ranch

A ranch isn't a factory. I don't know what OSHA has for regulations on farms, but I do know it is dangerous, hard work. The simple matter is that if one of these illegals was injured and the company did not provide appropriate safety equipment, that illegal would wind up owning the company in a lawsuit. Moreover, the owners and/or CEO would be in jail for negliegent homicide if someone died as a result of poor safety practices. Today, managers and CEOs can be held personally liable and criminally responsible for injuries if they knowingly failed to appropriately address safety issues.


21 posted on 04/22/2006 11:46:28 AM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: radar101
I know it's picky, but I have a real problem with the subhead that the Times used, both on the Web and in print:

An informant triggered the nationwide sweep. Investigators say a plant in New York flaunted the law and mistreated its illegal workers.

No. They flouted the law. They weren't waving the law around in people's faces, going "Look what I got!" They were brazenly breaking it. I know a lot of people get the two words confused. I know that Merriam-Webster acknowledges that a lot of people get the two words confused. So? Just because a lot of people are sloppy and confused doesn't mean guys who write for a living are entitled to be. The copy editors at the Times ought to know better.

22 posted on 04/22/2006 11:51:26 AM PDT by RichInOC (The Los Angeles Times...Stupid Is As Stupid Does.)
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To: All
Classic one-liners:

"Take my wife.. please!" Henny Youngman.

"[T]he IFCO crackdown marks the beginning of a new period of tougher work-site enforcement." A lying Washington "it all counts toward thirty" government employee repeating a lying politician puke's B.S.

(There are tens of thousands of companies and millions of ILLEGAL workers -- fat chance much more will be done about it. BTW, we CANNOT afford for ILLEGAL workers to "pay" back taxes -- their earned income credit checks would drain Treasury.)

23 posted on 04/22/2006 11:53:45 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (Globalism: a Marxist revolution from the top down? The Third Way loves it.)
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To: thegreatbeast; El Gato; B4Ranch

The sad part of the story is that hours later, all the illegals arrested were released. ICE didn't have holding facilities for all of them, so this was all just for show. Bush has to toss a token enforcement tidbit to the gullible Republican base (who is not following the leader on this sellout of our sovreignty.)


24 posted on 04/22/2006 11:57:22 AM PDT by holyscroller (A wise man's heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish man's heart directs him to the left)
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To: radar101
It was a move by Bush to show the country that he is serious about border security and going after the employers who hire illegals (It only took 5 1/2 years). I think it was too little too late. Bush is holding a press conference in farm country Monday which just happens to be the day Congress is back after their "spring break." I'm sure he will brag about the raid, which is probably the only one that has occurred since he's been prezz. What he probably won't say is that they arrested them and then they let them go again. It's his new "catch and release" program. So, IMO, the timing is perfect for him to score big points with Congress, illegals and the few gullible bush bots who still believe he walks on water. The majority of intelligent Americans have caught onto his BS!
25 posted on 04/22/2006 11:59:15 AM PDT by NRA2BFree (NO GUEST WORKER PLAN! IT IS REALLY AMNESTY, SHAMNESTY OR SCAMNESTY - IT IS THE SELL OUT OF AMERICA!!)
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To: texastoo

Funny isn't it? The Times never does say what was really behind the raids.

I agree with your take, but I think Bush also believes this will quiet the base and convince us he is serious about immigration reform. It wouldn't suprise me if it was also intended to arouse the illegals and the open borders lobby to push harder for fake reform.

I don't believe or trust Bush (or the Democrats) one inch on this issue and if he thinks this is going to help convince me he is serious about the issue he is wrong. In fact, I consider it blatant image manipulation with no intent at all for real enforcement, so he has alienated me even further.

Next.


26 posted on 04/22/2006 12:04:27 PM PDT by a_different_conservative
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To: doc30
But I guess following basic safety rules

What safety rules were broken? That is what we wore on the farm...and under a lot worse conditions than that.
27 posted on 04/22/2006 12:11:22 PM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: HiJinx

ping


28 posted on 04/22/2006 12:15:52 PM PDT by DumpsterDiver
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To: doc30
OSHA's d*mned near close to declaring that it's too dangerous to work. Those pinheads are one of the biggest reasons manufacturing is going offshore. Between them and the NFPA, firefighting is just about dead as a profession. They just want you to put on $5,000 worth of gear and stand in the front yard while the house burns down.
29 posted on 04/22/2006 12:16:22 PM PDT by Richard Kimball (I like to make everyone's day a little more surreal)
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To: manwiththehands
If illegals can work under these conditions we can get children to do the work for even less.

Nah, we have to save them for food. /Swiftian satire mode

30 posted on 04/22/2006 12:17:23 PM PDT by SlowBoat407 (The best stuff happens just before the thread snaps.)
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To: radar101
The investigation began with an insider's tip

This is a very important point, many do not realize that ICE cannot just raid any work place they or anyone else may suspect of hiring illegals. Immigration has the authority to search for and apprehend illegals and employers only near the border on mere suspicion.

Away from the border areas, Immigration must build a case similiar to what every other LE in this country in arresting anyone. They must have enough evidence to convince a judge to sign warrants.

It is very important to report employers who knowingly hire illegals. Please don't waste ICEs time by reporting suspicions, but if you are or were in a position to know that a business makes a practice of hiring illegals you should report that business and the facts you have to ICE.

31 posted on 04/22/2006 12:19:02 PM PDT by Tammy8 (Build a Real Border Fence, and enforce Immigration Laws!!!)
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To: radar101

Can Nicole Gaouette tell her ass from an industrial hole in the ground. I doubt it. Her closest brush with industry was a union first father and reading the Grapes of Wrath.


32 posted on 04/22/2006 12:21:58 PM PDT by bert (K.E. N.P. Slay Pinch)
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To: radar101
But the raid points to one fundamental fact:

All the yammer over NEW laws relating to illegals are pointless. They are pointless because all we need to do is truly enforce the already existing laws, penalizing the folks HIRING illegals and a big, bog chunk of the problem sill dry up. On the other hand there is no bloody point in increasing the penalties for actions when we haven't been enforcing the laws already on the books. Nail the crap out of the people hiring illegals and watch what happens to the quantity and direction of the flow; THEN we can add new laws.
33 posted on 04/22/2006 12:23:12 PM PDT by RedStateRocker (Nuke Mecca, deport all illegals, abolish the IRS, ATF and DEA.)
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Comment #34 Removed by Moderator

To: RichInOC
"Just because a lot of people are sloppy and confused doesn't mean guys who write for a living are entitled to be. The copy editors at the Times ought to know better."

I agree completely. A reporter for a big city newspaper should at least be able to write correctly. Being a liberal moron is no excuse for bad writing.

35 posted on 04/22/2006 12:41:00 PM PDT by Neanderthal
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To: Humidston

Microsoft employs only legals - at least, they pay their buddies in Washington to up the H1B visa numbers and get workers for scratch - legally. Obviously this company hadn't caught onto the game yet.


36 posted on 04/22/2006 12:52:10 PM PDT by cinives (On some planets what I do is considered normal.)
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To: Ingtar

How about a raid on every construction company, Foundation repair companies, Roofing companies, and last but not least landscape companies.


37 posted on 04/22/2006 12:54:23 PM PDT by stopem (If we need a "guest worker" we'll call........if the phone doesn't ring it's me!)
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To: Thanx A. Lott

VERY GOOD! Funny but true.


38 posted on 04/22/2006 12:56:12 PM PDT by stopem (If we need a "guest worker" we'll call........if the phone doesn't ring it's me!)
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To: stopem

"How about a raid on every construction company, Foundation repair companies, Roofing companies, and last but not least landscape companies."

Well, that's sort of prohibited by the 4th Amendment of our Constitution. If you think about it, you'll realize that our protections against being "raided" by the government are pretty valuable.

Before such raids can occur, there must be probable cause. That's how it works in the USA. I wouldn't change that for anything.

It's just one step from this kind of raid to a raid on your house to see if you have "illegal" firearms there.


39 posted on 04/22/2006 12:58:01 PM PDT by MineralMan (non-evangelical atheist)
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To: radar101

The local IFCO plant has a classified ad today...

for 20 workers.


40 posted on 04/22/2006 12:59:14 PM PDT by mrsmith
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To: Betty Jane

Now THERE'S a freemarket idea!


41 posted on 04/22/2006 1:02:07 PM PDT by brushcop (SPL Robert Hornbeck, missing in Savannah, GA since Easter, where are you Rob?)
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To: B4Ranch

What, no 3 piece suits??


42 posted on 04/22/2006 1:06:36 PM PDT by stephenjohnbanker ((Immigration: Acting like dupes does not earn us their respect, but their CONTEMPT.))
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To: stopem

How about when they're raidin' to just wear their uniforms to the hotels where they are lodging and watch the housekeeping staff disappear?!!


43 posted on 04/22/2006 1:10:07 PM PDT by YouGoTexasGirl
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To: radar101
What Was Behind the Big Raid(Illegals)

Window dressing. Without a decent interval, Frist comes prancing back on stage, babbling about a redux of the immigration bill, with a whole 2 billion in superduper double secret border control, along with...(cough)...a plan for accommodating current "immigrants".

These transparent schmucks are too stupid for the world of online info dissemination.

44 posted on 04/22/2006 1:11:07 PM PDT by guitfiddlist (When the 'Rats break out switchblades, it's no time to invoke Robert's Rules.)
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To: YouGoTexasGirl

LOL! Too funny. Scatter.......


45 posted on 04/22/2006 1:14:54 PM PDT by stopem (If we need a "guest worker" we'll call........if the phone doesn't ring it's me!)
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To: mrsmith

Yes, but is it in English?


46 posted on 04/22/2006 1:22:18 PM PDT by Betty Jane
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To: stopem; YouGoTexasGirl

I wonder if we could get the requirement changed where BP and ICE agent must where their uniforms when in a public place?


47 posted on 04/22/2006 1:24:46 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Immigration Control and Border Security -The jobs George W. Bush doesn't want to do.)
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To: Richard Kimball

It's good economic sense to follow OSHA guidelines. Unsafe operating conditions are also inefficient operations. It's cheaper to pay and plan a little for safety up front than to pay more after a problem happens. The company I work for has operations around the world. It's safety policy is simple. All plants will meet or exceed all safety regulations. Any given plant, regardless of location, will meet the safety requirements of every country where we operate, even in third world countries. The reason is simple: process uniformity. We are minimizing variations caused by different safety protocols in differnt areas. It hasn't hurt our bottom line and this aspect of the company is also favored by investors. You can do things on the cheap and skimp ion safety, but it is not a great long term strategy.


48 posted on 04/22/2006 1:31:57 PM PDT by doc30 (Democrats are to morals what and Etch-A-Sketch is to Art.)
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To: a_different_conservative
I agree. I don't think too many people believes Bush anymore. He has lost credibility.There is no doubt in my mind that he will push as hard as he can to get this amnesty through the senate next week.

You know the saying "follow the money". Watch Senator Frist in this. His family stands to make a ton of money. His father started HCA, Hospital Corporation of America. I think they own something like 300 hospitals in the US. They have made a lot of money off medicaid and emergency medicaid. Frist is another wealthy senator who has his stocks in a "blind" trust. Yeah right!!

49 posted on 04/22/2006 1:34:24 PM PDT by texastoo ("trash the treaties")
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To: radar101

Saw dust in their hair? This is an outrage!!!! Why would they bother enforcing OSHA rules? They are Illegal aliens. I guess we can just pick and chose which laws to follow?

I think the 33% approval rate and November have a lot more to do with it. The rep's are probably going to get hammered in Nov. As they deserve to be.


50 posted on 04/22/2006 1:36:56 PM PDT by JDB520
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