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Posted on 04/24/2006 4:34:30 AM PDT by Tribune7
Our (Pennsylvania) state legislators can lower our school taxes simply by shaking off the shackles placed there by the powerful teachers' union and approving school vouchers.
If parents are given a chance to select a low-cost option, homeowners would benefit because school districts would be forced to reduce taxes. Say the average cost of educating a pupil is $10,000 a year. Give the parents a $3,000 voucher and there will be a saving of $7,000 for everyone who has taken advantage of it.
So far, the only discussion about school finance is how to raise more money, most of which goes to teachers' salaries and benefits. There are other expenses too -- costly buildings, equipment and buses come to mind.
Let's think of ways to spend less and get more for the dollar.
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The Republicans in Harrisburg recently passed a bill, which would call for voters to show a form of official ID or a utility bill.
Another bill would end Philadelphia's wacky system of putting some 900 polling places in such places as bars, abandoned buildings and offices of local politicians.
(Excerpt) Read more at zwire.com ...
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What the beast eats it will continue to eat.
Lower costs and they will find a number of places that require more funding.
Libertarian ping! To be added or removed from my ping list freepmail me or post a message here.
Vouchers would just stretch the arm of government into private schools, too.
And $3000 vouchers? Dismantle the whole system. You can all educate your kids far more inexpensively buying books and materials on the free market, or just use your public library if you can't afford anything.
Exactly! I'm sad to see good people like Walter Williams still clinging to the voucher shell game. It's just more Al Gorish "Let's Make Government Work Better!" futility.
Vouchers would just stretch the arm of government into private schools, too.
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I agree, but I look at is as the first politically possible step towards total dismantlemnt of the government school system. Unfortuntely, I don't think people would take kindly to eliminating all state education tommorrow.
First we need competition, charter schools are preferable over vouchers, although they are sort of the same thing, depedning how they are defined, for ex: if all private schools are considered charter schools.
Then after people get used to (gasp) being more responsible for the educaiton of their children then the next step can be taken.
Home schooling would probably be best for everyone, but not everyone is able or is willing to home school. Vouchers have worked beautifully everywhere they've been instituted.
We need vouchers right now. The teacher's union is against them so they must be good.
I know that's the hope, but the opposite will happen. Gov't funding is never temporary. After vouchers, the private schools will start calling for more gov't funds, and eventually all schools will be public schools.
Not too long ago and not to far away, there was a place where everywhere homeschooling parents were considered criminal and punished by law.
But, heroic people got involved in politics and low and behold the evil dragon of educracy was driven away, and homeschooling is legal just about everywhere and even now respected.
It is true that vouchers would increase the reach of government into some private schools -- and appropriately in some regards. We do not want to give tax dollars to schools espousing Islamofascism.
What more than makes up for this concern, however, is that it vouchers vastly increase the reach of the market, parents and general commonsense into the public schools which now miseducate the large majority of our children.
I unabashedly support vouchers.
And if you really fear what might happen to your private school via vouchers consider what the homeschoolers did and realize that if you are politically vigilant government's role will not become unduly intrusive.
Fine by me.
That is an interesting view, which I hadn't considered in that way. I'll have to stew on it...
Another thing about vouchers is that they don't incentivize cost savings as much, as the school is gettting a fixed amount of money no matter what - although it still has to be better than the next one or it will loose students. There is no downwards pressure on prices.
And then of course the issue of homeschooling, how can you voucher that? It could easily be subject to abuse.
If we begin subsidizing the private schools with vouchers - all schools will become gov't-run.
Good to know I'm not alone here in holding that view. :-)
Most of us homeschoolers don't want gov't control in any way - including gov't funding. Homeschool organizations often fight against gov't tax credits or funding of any kind. We don't want the gov't's foot in the door.
In that case if a voucher system is put in place, you can reject funding a la Grove City College. Your situation doesn't change.
Meanwhile, parents who can't homeschool get to vote with their voucher what they want taught and who they want to teach it.
The kids now trapped with lazy, stupid, and ill-prepared teachers will get a fair chance to escape.
Since government doesn't create wealth and only consumes it, how can it give parents back what was always theirs anyway? Part of the beauty of being an American is choices.Look in the yellow pages. Thirty-one flavors or thirty thousand attorneys to choose from.Variety is a good thing.Some may choose for proximity,some for class size,some for shared belief systems,or a class for gifted mathematicians.Why is choice and competition considered good in everything except education?
Meanwhile, parents who can't homeschool get to vote with their voucher what they want taught and who they want to teach it.
They're voting with some of my family's money, forcibly taken from us. Our hardearned tax dollars. There's almost no such thing as parents who can't homeschool. It's rare. I know single parents homeschooling. Parents just don't want to do it, which is fine! That's their choice! But they should make that choice on their own dollar.
Homeschool Ping
Vouchers for private schools? Pro vs. Con
That is true. Of course, the money (tens maybe hundreds of billions annually) is forcibly taken from us now except it is given directly to socialists who hate everything you stand for and who are almost completely unaccountable to anything except the NEA.
If tax dollars are going to be spent on education -- and they are -- vouchers are the way to spend them.
You can't fix government schools.
Well, it's not hee hee. If you have the only bakery in town you are not going to consider a new one opening up good. And if you have the power of the state to mandate use of your bakery along with tax subsidies, it will be pretty hard to compete with it.
And needless to say your bakery will be produce a pretty poor product.
If they gave me 3000.00 of my own money back per child, I would go to a Virtual Elementary. The most expensive is 1800.00.
SOS has one (it would be considered a private school) and it's what we are using now, only on CD-ROM.
Cyber schools are another innovation opposed by the powers that be. The educational establishment hates education.
The goal of a educational system ought to be to create a literate, numerate society with knowledge of their legal rights and responsibilities.
The goal of our educational establishment is to get the most amount of money with the least amount of work.
Please don't underestimate the power of competition.... I see a future of private schools in every neighborhood, some small, and some the size of Walmart....but above all...the parental freedom to select a safe and successful school that fits the particular needs every child.....not the socialist cookie-cutters of today.
The more this thread evelops, the more alarmed I am by Freepers using the term 'government funds'. Those funds are not the governments!! Just because they're taken from us and redistributed, the control freaks think they own that money.
IT'S STILL OURS.
If we exert some political will, we can call the shots here. Just because our tax money is put into a particular place, it's as if the libs have decided that they hold all authority and power over any and all activities that ensue. This house of cards is all erected on a leftist judiciary, and that's currently coming to an end.
I love the smell of napalm in the morning.
Worth repeating.
Since we're considering the impossible (taking government out of education), would someone care to explain why those of us who choose not to have children, those of us who homeschool, those of us who pay for private education for our children are still required to pay taxes so that those who irresponsibly have children, don't care about their children's education, etc. can send their children to "free" (you get what you pay for) public schools.
Call me stingy if you like, but philosophically, I have a problem with taking money from the masses to pay for something that isn't even mentioned in the Constitution.
Do I smell a revolution (hopefully peaceful) brewing? With a 27% approval rating for Congress and a whopping 32% for Bush, I have the feeling that everyone is Washington is fiddling while the country burns.
They may be removed from reality or living in a bubble, but I don't believe that our Congresspeople or the Republican Party understand the anger that is spreading in their political base. I think it goes beyond dissatisfaction--I'm hearing real anger in many. Promises of reforming education (Reagan and the Party campaigned on eliminating the Department of Education) have turned to doubling what we spend on Education to institute a paperwork monster hoax called "No Child Left Behind."
Those who are listening are being told to shut-up and sit down (Repubican Study Committee). The Democrats hold a 10% lead in most polls when asked which party you would vote for for Congress. I fear that Bill Frist will be writing a sequal to "A National Party No More." When is the Republican Party going to get the picture?
>>Call me stingy if you like, but philosophically, I have a problem with taking money from the masses to pay for something that isn't even mentioned in the Constitution.<<
Okay stingy, I agree with you totally.
For years I was single, owned a house and had no kiddies.
Now I homeschool.
They take my money no matter what.
They don't want to win.If they really removed the Dems as viable opposition, they would deal with an immediate internal war between conservatives and RINOs. It's a battle they don't want.
It might happen among Freepers and likeminded folks, but it won't happen on a large scale as long as the possibility of Hillary or Kerry or whoever hangs out there.
The fear of the Dems keeps the Reps united for voting purposes. They are selling America for a short term power trip.
Amen to that! But, voucher-supported schools are not private. They're gov't-subsidized.
Let's be patient. Gov't-run schools won't last forever. All socialist systems come apart eventually. It will reach a point where the school taxes are so high and more and more parents are removing their children from those schools, and that's when more options (in the private sector) will come into play.
Take my school district as an example: It passed that point, and finally the school is cutting positions and trying to stay within a budget. Now they're working on an internet-based cyber-academy that will enable kids to receive high school credit from home. Eventually, maybe more and more parents will take advantage of that option. That could mean, eventually, no school building to heat and maintain, which would translate into lower costs. And, as people become more independent, they might like other cyberschools on the private market better. And so on.
But, if we subsidize private schools, we'll be making them into public schools.
Besides, this idea of school 5 days/week, 6-7 hours/day is behind the times. We're a fast-paced, internet society. There's benefit to getting together with one's peers and learning along with them, but it isn't necessary every single weekday, all day long.
No kidding. Feed, cloth and educate your children.
Don't expect the government to do it for you.
Coming soon to a gov't-subsidized "private school" near you... ;-)
:-)
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