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Myth vs. Fact: (You cannot deport 12 million people) Oh Yes You Can!
The New American ^ | May 1, 2006 | Thomas R. Eddlem

Posted on 04/25/2006 10:57:43 AM PDT by underwiredsupport

 

Myth vs. Fact
by Thomas R. Eddlem
May 1, 2006

http://www.thenewamerican.com/artman/publish/printer_3745.shtml

Politicians and pundits are defending illegal immigration with worn-out myths that can easily be proven wrong.

Myth: Illegal immigrants contribute greatly to the American economy.

Fact: So-called statistics supporting this myth are typically a deceptive amalgam of statistics and supposition arranged to conceal an undeniable truth. Consider, for instance, this statement from the ACLU paper Immigrants and the Economy (2002): "Immigrants pay more than $90 billion in taxes every year and receive only $5 billion in welfare. Without their contributions to the public treasury, the economy would suffer enormous losses." If 32.5 million immigrants (the total of legal and illegal immigrants, according to the recent U.S. Census figures) really pay $90 billion in taxes, then they pay half the taxes the average native-born American pays. Note too that the ACLU combines both legal and illegal immigrants into its statistic. Most taxes paid by immigrants are paid by legal immigrants. Illegal immigrants often pay little or no taxes because many of them are working "under the table" in the underground, cash-based economy.

Welfare is a term limited to only a few federal subsidy programs, and the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) notes: "Even though illegal aliens make little use of welfare, from which they are generally barred, the costs of illegal immigration in terms of government expenditures for education, criminal justice, and emergency medical care are significant." CIS estimates that the total net cost of illegal immigration is an annual drain on the government of $11-22 billion annually.

Myth: We are a nation of immigrants.

Fact: This myth is false on its face. Nearly 88 percent of the people living in the United States today are not immigrants; they were born here. This is a nation of natives, not a nation of immigrants. "But," the liberal propagandists reply, "we all have ancestors who come from other countries." And, one might reply, so does just about every other nation on Earth.

Are not the French merely descendents of the immigrant barbarian Franks, who drove out the Roman era Celtic Gauls? And the English are simply immigrant Angles and Saxons who virtually wiped out the Celtic Britons in the fifth century A.D. They too are simply nations of immigrants under this liberal myth, as is practically every other nation on Earth. The myth descends to meaninglessness upon any serious analysis. Yet whenever this myth is uttered, we are expected to nod our heads in agreement that a deep and salient point has been made.

Myth: You cannot deport 12 million people.

Fact: This is nothing more than a slogan for people who have stopped trying to address the problem. The U.S. government needs to begin deporting illegal aliens, and even if it only deports a fraction of them over the next few years that would be progress. If the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency deported only two million of the 12 million illegal aliens, 10 million illegals would be better than 12 million.

Congressman Tom Tancredo (R-Colo.) notes that enforcing employer sanctions could lead many to go home on their own without deportation proceedings: "If you can't get a job in this country, and if you can't get social service benefits, you go home." Additionally, a lot of immigrants visit families on their own, and wouldn't be able to get back in if Congress decides to secure the border.

On the other hand, if the 12 million illegals are legalized, none would be deported. Moreover, this amnesty (whether called amnesty or not) would simply induce more illegals to cross the Rio Grande in the hopes of waiting until the next amnesty.

Myth: Illegal immigrants are only taking jobs Americans do not want.

Fact: Many illegal immigrants are able to work for less than market value because they don't pay income or Social Security taxes and are able to take their entire paycheck (or cash) home. This is not only unfair competition against employers who follow the law and pay employees "above the table," but it depresses the wage scale for Americans who would otherwise select jobs currently filled by illegal immigrants. These are jobs that Americans "do not want" only because the illegal immigrants have depressed the wage scale for the positions. Take away the illegal immigrants, and the market would raise wages to the level where Americans would take the jobs.

Myth: Guest workers would only be here temporarily.

Fact: History demonstrates that "guest workers" would be as temporary as the "temporary" telephone tax, still in effect, that Congress enacted in 1898 to pay for the Spanish-American War. And what would happen if 12 million "guest workers" decided not to leave? Those who argue against deporting the current 12 million illegal aliens as impractical are likely, if challenged, to say they find the prospect of deporting "guest workers" impractical as well.

Thus, it is hardly surprising that President Bush fails to mention a time limit on the "temporary" worker visas the federal government would permit under the "guest worker" program he is pushing in his public addresses. Most pending congressional legislation would limit the "guest worker" to three years — but what then?

Myth: Illegal immigrants have a right to come here. It is our Christian duty to provide hospitality.

Fact: Nearly two-thirds of the 32.5 million foreign-born people living in the United States entered this country legally, and the United States has more legal immigrants than any other country in the world. That's hardly poor hospitality, and no bill before Congress that has a chance of becoming law would change this nation's hospitality. But it is poor hospitality to say to the nearly 22 million legal U.S. immigrants who waited in line that they wasted their time following the rules because illegal immigrants will now get the same status.

The need to deport illegal aliens and secure our borders has nothing to do with persecuting minorities or lack of hospitality. The United States can continue to allow a large or small number of immigrants into this country legally, depending upon how many can be reasonably assimilated without destroying our American identity. Rather, securing our borders is necessary as a matter of principle — in the interests of equal justice under law — as well as practical security in this age of international terrorism. And this nation can no longer afford to allow "myth-information" slogans to sidetrack the nation from fulfilling the mandate of controlling the borders.
 


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: California
KEYWORDS: aliens; borderlist; deportationpossible; illegalaliens; illegalimmigration; illegals; immigrantlist; immigration; minutemen
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A good review of Myth vs. Fact amongst the growing hyperbole and bovine supplements...
1 posted on 04/25/2006 10:57:46 AM PDT by underwiredsupport
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To: underwiredsupport

I could make everyone in this office leave right now by not paying any of them.


2 posted on 04/25/2006 10:59:21 AM PDT by jw777
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To: underwiredsupport

Our borders should have been secured years ago. This is Bush's fault. The USA does not need to form a militia to remove those who came here illegally.


3 posted on 04/25/2006 10:59:58 AM PDT by tessalu (t)
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To: underwiredsupport

Good posting.


4 posted on 04/25/2006 11:00:07 AM PDT by Uncle Hal
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To: underwiredsupport
Can we please try to Secure Our Borders first?

If we don't, then what's the point of returning the illegals? ...they simply return the next week.

5 posted on 04/25/2006 11:00:49 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: underwiredsupport

Tagline.


6 posted on 04/25/2006 11:01:31 AM PDT by SerpentDove (We will not stand by and allow politicians to destroy our country through open borders.)
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To: underwiredsupport

Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.


7 posted on 04/25/2006 11:01:58 AM PDT by American Quilter (Lucidity of speech is one of the surest tests of mental precision. - David Lloyd George)
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To: underwiredsupport

I have heard the line about deporting too often. It has been repeated by all sides and that cements my thought that it is a lie. Prove to me it won't work.


8 posted on 04/25/2006 11:03:10 AM PDT by satchmodog9 (Most people stand on the tracks and never even hear the train coming)
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To: underwiredsupport

Please...this guy's stoned.


9 posted on 04/25/2006 11:03:37 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: underwiredsupport

That's the Best presentation of immigration facts I've seen yet.

Time to stop being sheeple when it comes to this.

Now if only the spineless hussies in Washington can stand up on this - right now there are I think maybe 3 or 4??

Does anyone have a list of who has a backbone on immigration? I'd love a list.


10 posted on 04/25/2006 11:05:11 AM PDT by standingfirm
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To: underwiredsupport

Si Se Puede


11 posted on 04/25/2006 11:07:34 AM PDT by texas_mrs (Immigrants made this country great - Illegal immigrants are now destroying it)
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To: underwiredsupport

If there is ONE thing that Republicans and Democrats should and could unite on, it is this issue.

It's a shame, however, that the government and the public can't.


12 posted on 04/25/2006 11:08:28 AM PDT by Lucky9teen (If every illegal came here, carrying a barrell of oil, our problems would be solved (at least w/gas))
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To: underwiredsupport

I don't think deporting any of them makes any sense until there is first a well-guarded, physical barrier at the border to prevent them from coming back. We'd just be wasting time and money.

It is wholly unrealistic to think that we are going to find, let alone round up and deport 12 million individuals. But we damn sure can and should be deporting (after the border is sealed) any illegal who is caught in the comission of a felony or a repeat misdemeanor. That way, we're not wasting time tracking the illegals down. We wait until they come to us, so to speak.


13 posted on 04/25/2006 11:08:28 AM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (If low-skill workers were key to economic growth, Mexico would be an economic powerhouse.-Rich Lowry)
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To: underwiredsupport

Sure it can be done...as long as cost is no option.


14 posted on 04/25/2006 11:08:38 AM PDT by rhombus
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To: underwiredsupport

The devil is in the details.


15 posted on 04/25/2006 11:09:11 AM PDT by verity (The MSM is comprised of useless eaters)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Protest all you want, but deportations will resume...either with this administration, or another. Keep your bags packed! ;)0 sarcasm/on


16 posted on 04/25/2006 11:09:57 AM PDT by underwiredsupport (...for the shape of things to come!)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: underwiredsupport
Let's take this BS apart one by one...

He quotes the Center for Immigration Studies. Here's aother quote from the same source:

"Using data from the Census Bureau's current population survey, Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group in Washington that favors more limits on immigration, estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002." -- Source

That JUST Social Security taxes mind you, they also pay sales taxes.

18 posted on 04/25/2006 11:11:30 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: underwiredsupport
Moreover, this amnesty (whether called amnesty or not) would simply induce more illegals to cross the Rio Grande in the hopes of waiting until the next amnesty.

Bingo.
19 posted on 04/25/2006 11:11:44 AM PDT by reagan_fanatic (Someday we'll look back on all this and plow into a parked car)
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To: underwiredsupport

Wait...

Bush claims he deported 6 million illegals.

Why not more?


20 posted on 04/25/2006 11:12:09 AM PDT by Shermy
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To: finnigan2
You get today's Free Republic Award for Best Dramatic Performance for that post.
21 posted on 04/25/2006 11:12:20 AM PDT by SerpentDove (We will not stand by and allow politicians to destroy our country through open borders.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez; All
Tucson Citizen

Data on illegal immigrants kept secret

2 agencies cite privacy in denying info to prosecutors
Knight Ridder Newspapers
Published: 04.24.2006
 
Two federal agencies are refusing to turn over a mountain of evidence that investigators could use to indict the nation's burgeoning work force of illegal immigrants and the firms that employ them.
The Internal Revenue Service and the Social Security Administration routinely collect strong evidence of potential workplace crimes, including names and addresses of millions of people who are using bogus Social Security numbers, their wage records, and the identities of the bosses who knowingly hire them.
But they keep those facts secret.
The two agencies don't analyze their data to root out likely immigration fraud, and they won't share their millions of records so that law enforcement agencies can do that, either.
Privacy laws, they say, prohibit them from sharing their files with anyone, except in rare criminal investigations.
But the agencies don't even use the power they have.
The IRS doesn't fine even the most egregious employers who repeatedly submit inaccurate data about their workers. Social Security does virtually nothing to alert citizens whose Social Security numbers are being used by others.
Evidence abounds within their files, according to an analysis by Knight Ridder Newspapers and the Charlotte (N.C.) Observer.
One internal study found that a restaurant company had submitted 4,100 duplicate Social Security numbers for workers. Other firms submit inaccurate names or numbers reports for nearly all of their employees. One child's Social Security number was used 742 times by workers in 42 states.
"That's the kind of evidence we want," said Paul Charlton, the U.S. attorney in Arizona. He regularly prosecutes unauthorized workers, but says it's hard to prove employers are involved in the crime.
"Anything that suggests they had knowledge . . . is a good starting point. If you see the same Social Security number a thousand times, it's kind of hard for them to argue they didn't know."
On Thursday, immigration officials announced a new push toward busting bosses who hire unauthorized workers.
Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff has asked Congress for access to the secret earnings files, a tool he says would help "get control of this illegal workforce."
The records at issue are the earnings reports, sent by employers along with money withheld for taxes and Social Security.
They contain workers' names and Social Security numbers, and when they don't match Social Security records, the information is set aside in what's called the Earnings Suspense File.
Typos and name changes can cause wage reports not to match Social Security records. But increasingly, officials cite unauthorized workers using bogus Social Security numbers as a driving force behind the mismatched files.
The incorrect worker files mushroomed during the 1990s, as migrants poured into the United States. Almost half of the inaccurate reports come from such industries as agriculture, construction and restaurants, which rely on unauthorized labor.
The IRS also receives the mismatch information. It tries to match workers involved to its records, then probes to see whether the workers are paying taxes.
To work lawfully in the United States, individuals must have valid Social Security numbers or authorization from the Department of Homeland Security.
But the law doesn't require companies to verify that workers give them names and numbers that match Social Security records.

22 posted on 04/25/2006 11:13:14 AM PDT by underwiredsupport (...for the shape of things to come!)
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To: underwiredsupport

Don't forget, we have diplomatic agreements with most every nation in the world. ALL of these address the instance when one's citizen is in the other Nation and loses his passport, is mugged, is in an accident, committs a crime, or is there illegally! To condone this jive just cause it's Meheco is to repudiate ALL the other agreements.


23 posted on 04/25/2006 11:14:03 AM PDT by Waco
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To: Luis Gonzalez

Paying sales tax is a measure of when the law should be enforced?


24 posted on 04/25/2006 11:14:40 AM PDT by bordergal
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To: finnigan2

Sorry, but it is quite simple. You round up, detain, process and deport. It was done in the Central Valley of California for over 30 years. A detention center was located in Fresno, adjacent to the freeway 99. The illegals were arrested in the region, brought to the detention center, and loaded onto air conditioned INS busses. 6 hours later, they were at the border in Tijuana...and back in THEIR HOME COUNTRY. It worked just fine for over 30 years. Why will it not again? Hmmmmm?


25 posted on 04/25/2006 11:15:42 AM PDT by underwiredsupport (...for the shape of things to come!)
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To: SerpentDove; finnigan2

"Stella! STELLA!! . . . . Nazis!"


26 posted on 04/25/2006 11:17:57 AM PDT by tumblindice
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To: underwiredsupport

That was in ONE AREA--Central California. You'll have to set up an area just like it in every county in the United States. It's no longer a localized problem.


27 posted on 04/25/2006 11:18:40 AM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (If low-skill workers were key to economic growth, Mexico would be an economic powerhouse.-Rich Lowry)
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To: underwiredsupport


And soon illegals will have the "right" to vote in places.

Pay your taxes and have a nice day. :)


28 posted on 04/25/2006 11:19:18 AM PDT by Tzimisce (How Would Mohammed Vote? Hillary for President! www.dndorks.com)
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To: underwiredsupport
You buy into the argument that 12 million deportations are necessary, and using that story, the government will sell you an amnesty package.

We don't need 12 million deportations, we need a few thousand employers in jail and the illegal will first stop coming, and eventually will have no choice but to go home.

29 posted on 04/25/2006 11:21:04 AM PDT by Luis Gonzalez (Some people see the world as they would want it to be, effective people see the world as it is.)
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To: underwiredsupport

There is no better form of obvious abandonment of the American citizens by our elected officials than for them to out right lie about the illegal invaders issue. Their continuous attempt to wrap the issue in various pretty colors does no change the truth. People who are in this country illegally have broken the law and those politicians who refuse to enforce the laws and those who hire illegals are as well complicit in breaking the law. Accountability needs to be forced upon them or this nations is done.


30 posted on 04/25/2006 11:22:43 AM PDT by drypowder
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To: TexasCajun
...they simply return the next week

Depends on the method used to return them.


31 posted on 04/25/2006 11:24:11 AM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk. Those who talk don't know.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

"the government will sell you an amnesty plan"

That's Fat Teddy's plan. `Grease' the Dem/Repubs' amnesty plan with some token raids and patching up some cyclone fencing--then it's back to business as usual.

Deportation? Si, we can.


32 posted on 04/25/2006 11:26:24 AM PDT by tumblindice
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To: underwiredsupport

> You cannot deport 12 million people ... Oh Yes You Can!

Don't need to. Just have a no-exceptions policy that
every one caught is deported (not caught and released).
The rest will get the message and most will leave.

But no policy has any meaning until the border is secured.

Xraying people on flights from Europe is absurd when
hostiles can dance across the Rio unnoticed.


33 posted on 04/25/2006 11:27:20 AM PDT by Boundless
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To: underwiredsupport

Build the fence first, screw bush, GOP and RATS:

http://www.minutemanhq.com/bf/

Next, put employers in jail. If Martha Stewart can go to jail for blowing hot air, a drywall company president or the president of walmart SHOULD go there too.


34 posted on 04/25/2006 11:27:37 AM PDT by Zrob
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To: tessalu

Bush's fault? Sure, why not, everything else is blamed on him, from the dawn of civilization to the present.

Agreed, our borders should have been secured years ago. Years and years before Bush was even born.

How do you suggest we remove the illegals?


35 posted on 04/25/2006 11:29:37 AM PDT by F.J. Mitchell (Hanging and firing squad, was not deemed cruel or inhumane execution by the writers of that clause.)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Please...this guy's stoned.

Yes? And. . .? "Stoned" and "right" are not mutually exclusive.

36 posted on 04/25/2006 11:31:30 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: underwiredsupport

When I first joined the Border Patrol my Sector made over 200,000 apprehensions. At the time, we had about 200 agents working the line. That's a thousand illegals per agent. If all 15,000 Agents in the Patrol right now made one thousand apps in a year, the 11 million illegals residing here would be depleted in short order.


37 posted on 04/25/2006 11:33:46 AM PDT by Ajnin (I)
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To: verity
The devil is in the details.

So is national security.

38 posted on 04/25/2006 11:34:31 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell

So is the secret chili recipe.


39 posted on 04/25/2006 11:37:21 AM PDT by verity (The MSM is comprised of useless eaters)
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To: Luis Gonzalez
That JUST Social Security taxes mind you, they also pay sales taxes.

Oh, Gasp! They do! Why, then, we'll just have to keep 'em here sucking off our nation's wealth and sending it back to the hellhole they came from, for the state sales taxes they pay, doncha know.

40 posted on 04/25/2006 11:38:18 AM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: underwiredsupport; Dane
Thus, it is hardly surprising that President Bush fails to mention a time limit on the "temporary" worker visas the federal government would permit under the "guest worker" program he is pushing in his public addresses. Most pending congressional legislation would limit the "guest worker" to three years — but what then?

Exactly the same question I've been asking of Dane for a while now.

Care to respond, Dane?

What will be done when all of those refuse to leave?

If we can't deport them now, what will we do when their time is up?

Got an answer, Dane?

41 posted on 04/25/2006 11:40:17 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: underwiredsupport
Mr President, not all at once. Just start somewhere. Word will get out if you act like America's chief executive. Our Constitution says:

"....He shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed."

42 posted on 04/25/2006 11:41:27 AM PDT by Rapscallion (Liberals: Working for the conquest of America since VietNam.)
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To: Ol' Dan Tucker
Yeah I'm going to listen to the bircher new american.

The people who think Eisenhower was a communist.

43 posted on 04/25/2006 11:42:51 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: underwiredsupport

How do you deport 12 million illegals when for everyone you deport three sneak back in?


44 posted on 04/25/2006 11:45:22 AM PDT by Kaslin
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Comment #45 Removed by Moderator

To: underwiredsupport; nicmarlo; Czar

I'm so tired of the whiny, pathetic excuses coming from all levels of government. It doesn't help that the president was repeating this yesterday in his speech. We "can't"???? Since when? We *used* to be the most powerful nation on earth. Can't was not in the vocabulary. We put people in space, we invented the telephone, the Internet. We have the most powerful military and every kind of advanced technology one could think of, but we "cannot deport xx million."


46 posted on 04/25/2006 11:48:57 AM PDT by Borax Queen
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To: F.J. Mitchell


"Agreed, our borders should have been secured years ago. Years and years before Bush was even born.

How do you suggest we remove the illegals? "


It will take many actions, but the first and foremost is to crack down on those who employ illegal aliens and to upgrade social security documentation so that it is much more difficult to use social security numbers fradulently.


And the fact that other Presidents didn't do their job is no excuse for Bush not to.


47 posted on 04/25/2006 11:49:05 AM PDT by lsjogren
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To: Luis Gonzalez
"Using data from the Census Bureau's current population survey, Steven Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, an advocacy group in Washington that favors more limits on immigration, estimated that 3.8 million households headed by illegal immigrants generated $6.4 billion in Social Security taxes in 2002." -- Source

How could an illegal alien pay into SS when you have to be a citizen or legally authorized alien to do so? ( How do I replace a lost Social Security card?)

48 posted on 04/25/2006 11:49:47 AM PDT by Ol' Dan Tucker (Karen Ryan reporting...)
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To: F.J. Mitchell
If we can make Canada look like a wonderful opportunity, they will go. I not counting on them going back home even if we take away the jobs they hold. As long as there is more to steal here, they aren't leaving. I can't afford to stay home everyday and guard my belongings without the bank taking my home away from me. What a mess!
49 posted on 04/25/2006 11:50:07 AM PDT by Dixie Yooper (Ephesians 6:11)
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To: Luis Gonzalez

We don't need to deport 12 million, just start deporting one or two thousand a month with well publicized confiscation and auction of their personal and real property. While simultaneously opening up documentation and processing centers in Mexico for guest workers.

The big exodus home would begin almost overnight. It just takes political courage.

I think the legal immigration quotas are too low and need to be doubled, maybe tripled. They wouldn't be up here if they couldn't find work and most would prefer to be documented and legal.

However, they need to go home and let us sort and tag them before they re-enter.


50 posted on 04/25/2006 11:52:22 AM PDT by Valpal1 (Crush jihadists, drive collaborators before you, hear the lamentations of their media. Allahu FUBAR!)
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