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Ethanol: A Tragedy in 3 Acts
Business Week Online ^ | Thursday April 27 2006 | Ed Wallace

Posted on 04/27/2006 10:45:52 AM PDT by Brian Allen

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To: immigration lady
what no one sees is that there is a .51 tax on each gallon of ethynol, thanks to the corn lobbyists. the refining cost is unbelievable because of the greedy hands in the pot. If we could make the fuel from sugar cane, well, that would be different but nothing's going to change until our government decides to quit politicizing the problem and starts focusing on how to get this country independent of foreign oil.

But wait, there's more!

MTBE is being replaced by ethanol, after the Congress (or was it the EPA at the direction of Congress?) mandated either one or the other be used as an oxygenating additive in motor fuels.

It turns out that MTBE does not break down readily, is toxic, and is contaminating groundwater. Congress refused to renew any waiver of liability on MTBE, so the switch is on.

Additionally, COngress has mandated ethanol useage, which when combined with MTBE replacement, will bring the total requirement (projected) for this year to some 6.1 billion gallons of ethanol.

Now for the fun part.

The US, at 100%, can only produce 4.5 billion gallons of that 6.1 billion gallons of ethanol, so 1.6 billion gallons will have to be imported.

There is a tarrif on imported ethanol. Congress put that there also, long ago, to protect domestic producers.

This makes the Congressional 'profit' on a gallon of motor fuel multiples of the oil company profit on that same gallon (Federal fuel tax+ ethanol tarrif), but who gets the blame?

101 posted on 04/27/2006 10:49:06 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA
Not always.

The spaghetti trees in Switzerland that I first saw on TV have evidently been hybridized. National Geographic was able to photograph a spaghetti azalea in the wild, possibly in the U.S. South.

For some reason, the BBC continues to say it was an April Fool's joke in 1957. They have never admitted that the rare tree, which I saw with my own eyes being harvested by women with wicker baskets, as was the custom, was evidently destroyed by the radiation emitted by their television cameras. It has been quite an elaborate cover-up. Read here:

ASpaghettiTreeGrowsInSwitzerland

102 posted on 04/28/2006 12:17:36 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: Smokin' Joe
The US, at 100%, can only produce 4.5 billion gallons of that 6.1 billion gallons of ethanol, so 1.6 billion gallons will have to be imported.

Sure about that?

http://www.neo.state.ne.us/statshtml/121.htm

103 posted on 04/28/2006 12:48:24 AM PDT by garandgal
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To: Smokin' Joe
The US, at 100%, can only produce 4.5 billion gallons of that 6.1 billion gallons of ethanol, so 1.6 billion gallons will have to be imported.

With all the new plants under construction and so many existing ones under expansion there will shortly be a glut of ethanol.
104 posted on 04/28/2006 5:55:17 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: Brian Allen

Few if any anti-pollution measures would "survive in a free market." That being said I'm not sure we want to mimic Mexico City.


105 posted on 04/28/2006 5:57:16 AM PDT by The Red Zone
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To: Rte66
That made me suspicious of all the test results, as they might be skewed somehow.

They do have their biases, no doubt about that. If they did not operate under the constraint of having to actually make money, I would take whatever they have to say in a fairly high sodium way.
106 posted on 04/28/2006 5:57:43 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: Daytyn71

How much oil is in ANWAR?


107 posted on 04/28/2006 5:58:22 AM PDT by mel
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To: Naptowne
We should make partnerships with poor third-world

We would be trashing their countries by having them do what we should be doing were it not for some environmentalists griping.
108 posted on 04/28/2006 5:59:35 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: mel
How much oil is in ANWAR?

I don't think there has been all that much in the way of formal surveys. All I have ever heard is either educated guesses or guesses pulled from various orifices.
109 posted on 04/28/2006 6:37:40 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: Naptowne

why? Put our own farmers to work... Make our own plants and refineries. Get politics out of the mix.


110 posted on 04/28/2006 8:10:08 AM PDT by immigration lady (defeat is only momentary)
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To: Naptowne

why? Put our own farmers to work... Make our own ethanol plants and refineries. Get politics out of the mix.


111 posted on 04/28/2006 8:10:51 AM PDT by immigration lady (defeat is only momentary)
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To: Brian Allen
There are some discrepancies in this article. I personally heard the Brazilian Ambassador to the United States speak of how well the ethanol conversion has been for Brazil and how they are now energy INDEPENDENT they are and how the United States, one of their stronger allies, should follow suit.
112 posted on 04/28/2006 8:27:01 AM PDT by rodeocowboy (Vote Constitution Party in 2006 to send a message to the Republican Party for 2008!)
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To: garandgal
the source I misquoted

I stand corrected. The article I was using as my source did not state that the 4.5 billion gallons was the maximum capacity, but an anticipated production amount.

Thank you for pointing that out.

113 posted on 04/28/2006 8:33:45 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Rte66

The producer's thoughts on the matter (expressed with stereotypical British understatement) are as true as ever:

"I think it was a good idea for people to be aware they couldn't believe everything they saw on the television and that they ought to adopt a slightly critical attitude to it."


114 posted on 04/28/2006 11:00:06 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: rodeocowboy; nopardons

<< I personally heard the Brazilian Ambassador ... >>

That's a pretty darned efficacious way to hear, all right.

But, regardless of how well you heard him, like everyone who espouses and promulgates the ethonol flim-flam, the shukkin' and jivin' socialist Brazillian ambassador was lyin' to yah.

Brazil is SOMEWHAT "energy independent" because its ongoing OIL exploration and drilling has paid off and it continues to bring new fields on line. And in any case its ethonol is from easy to grow in tropical Brazil [It's only grass, after all] cane sugar and American "farmers" and their failed lawyer and other quote-hired congressconmen are trying to scam us with the smoke and mirrors delusion that they and Archer Daniel Midlands can make it from grain for less than the 1.25 gallons of OIL and USD$3.00 a gallon it presently costs to produce.

Do you reckon if they could there wouldn't, in a New York minute, be genius Americans, like those at Exxon, say, already far and away the world's most innovative, creative, productive, industrious and entrepeurial, lining up construction crews and equipment to the horizon in every direction and building plants and tripping over one another to get their very special ethonol brew to market??

BUMPping


115 posted on 04/28/2006 11:40:44 AM PDT by Brian Allen (Life's only certainties include the absolute corruption of those who collect and spend our taxes.)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Oh, goodie - so glad you caught that - I was *hoping* you and other FReepers would! Can you imagine - 50 years ago!

I remember two others from Panorama, but they were real (I think!). One was about eating "oiseau" in France - live birds baked in pies, while the diners covered their heads with large cloth napkins and "inhaled the essence" of the pie. They spit out the beaks and saved them as souvenirs.

The other was an oft-repeated film segment of Prince Charles dressed up as an Indian chief in a war bonnet and full beads-and-buckskin war regalia, riding around on a little Indian pony.


116 posted on 04/28/2006 11:44:49 AM PDT by Rte66
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To: P-40

I did a little Googling to try to answer my own question and the nub of it is this: unlike hydrocarbons, which consist only of hydrogen and carbon, carbohydrates also contain oxygen. That's the key. They're partially oxidized, which means they have less chemical energy -- and it also means that you converting them into a hydrocarbon is not a trivial thing.


117 posted on 05/02/2006 10:31:05 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick
and it also means that you converting them into a hydrocarbon is not a trivial thing.

The oxygen is beneficial in the right quantity; it helps with combustion.

From: http://www.biodiesel.com/theFuel.htm

The biodiesel molecules are very simple hydrocarbon chains, containing no sulfur, ring molecules or aromatics associated with fossil fuels. Biodiesel is made up of almost 10% oxygen, making it a naturally "oxygenated" fuel.
118 posted on 05/03/2006 6:07:27 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: P-40

Biodiesel is made from vegetable oils, which are hydrocarbons (or are composed mostly of hydrocarbon molecules). The veggie oil doesn't need to be turned into hydrocarbons because it already is hydrocarbons.

My question is about the carbohydrates in plants (sugars, starch, cellulose), not the oils in plants. I was thinking that carbohydrates should be easily be turned into hydrocarbons given that both were just combinations of carbon and hydrogen. But as it turns out, carbohydrates are fundamentally different from hydrocarbons because they have oxygen as part of their basic structure (there are probably other differences as well, but that was the main one I picked up on as I Googled around). This (apparently) is why plant carbs aren't turned into gasoline or diesel, but alcohol.


119 posted on 05/03/2006 7:42:20 AM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Yardstick
This (apparently) is why plant carbs aren't turned into gasoline or diesel, but alcohol.

That would make sense.
120 posted on 05/03/2006 7:46:17 AM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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