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Veterans push for crackdown on Medal of Honor fakers
KOLD NEWS 13 (AP Story) ^

Posted on 04/30/2006 2:26:19 PM PDT by SandRat

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. Faking American medals of honor is apparently a growth industry.

In fact, federal authorities now say there are more Medal of Honor impostors than actual living recipients.----

(Excerpt) Read more at kold.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; US: Tennessee
KEYWORDS: crackdown; fakers; medalofhonor; moh; stolenhonor; stolenvalor; veterans
Anyone convicted of fraudulently wearing a Medal of Honor faces up to a year in prison and a 100-thousand-dollar fine.
1 posted on 04/30/2006 2:26:24 PM PDT by SandRat
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To: 2LT Radix jr; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; 80 Square Miles; A Ruckus of Dogs; acad1228; AirForceMom; ..

STOLEN-HONOR


2 posted on 04/30/2006 2:26:52 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: SandRat

I despise the vile impostors.


3 posted on 04/30/2006 2:29:15 PM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: SandRat

Anyone caught doing this should be publicly caned and then forced to do a live interview on all major networks. Maybe put them in the gallery during the State of the Union speech and point them out.


4 posted on 04/30/2006 2:32:15 PM PDT by TheErnFormerlyKnownAsBig (I invented "patty on patty technology.")
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To: SandRat

Despicable. There are a few awards in my profession and in my avocation that I aspire to. I wouldn't dream of faking them. I might not get them, but I might still. The most likely is an age group national championship in the 3000m racewalk next March at the indoor Masters' Track and Field meet in Boston. I had to drop out at 700m of this year's competition with a muscle strain. I've rested and am slowly ramping up my training.


5 posted on 04/30/2006 2:32:46 PM PDT by jimfree (Walk, don't run!)
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To: SandRat

Couldn't we just shoot them instead?


6 posted on 04/30/2006 2:40:27 PM PDT by usmcobra (Those that are incited to violence by the sight of OUR flag are the enemies of this nation.)
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To: SandRat

My Nephew was killed near fallujah. At his funeral in his home in N.J. some whacko impersonated a marine officer in full dress uniform with all kinds of medals.
He got very near J. T.s mom and then the f.b.i. nabbed the nutcase. Good thing J.T.s father didn't get ahold of this guy at the time or all of the emotions would have come out and the idiot would have become a statistic.


7 posted on 04/30/2006 2:41:41 PM PDT by Joe Boucher (an enemy of islam)
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To: SandRat

I think there are also more POW poseurs than there are POW's, and 6 or 8 times as many SF/SEAL/MACV-SOG phonies as there are the real thing.


8 posted on 04/30/2006 2:43:09 PM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: SandRat

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1624253/posts


9 posted on 04/30/2006 2:45:19 PM PDT by ErnBatavia (Meep Meep)
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To: Joe Boucher

Being somewhat obsessed with war and the military, I have busted many phonies over the last 35 years, although no MOH impostors.


In the 70s it was phony Green Berets, then after SEAL movies became popular in the 80s and 90s SEALs became the new thing.

POW has always been a popular identity for phonies


It surprises me how easy it is to penetrate the typical "veteran" con.


10 posted on 04/30/2006 2:53:41 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

I think you're grossly wrong about 8 or 10 Phonies for every real SEAL; from what I've read, there may be as many as 50 to 100 lying SEALs for every real SEAL. And from what I've seen, some of the world's least likely candidates will make the claim they "were a SEAL in VN". When I ask them "just where were you in VN"?, the standard answer is: ALL OVER THE PLACE!


11 posted on 04/30/2006 3:12:27 PM PDT by laconic
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To: ansel12
Being somewhat obsessed with war and the military, I have busted many phonies over the last 35 years, although no MOH impostors.

You can bet there will be a few more from the Gulf War, Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan...Keep up the work. At least I have my 214 to back me up.


12 posted on 04/30/2006 3:14:16 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: SandRat

That is why John Kerry did not win a Medal of Honor he could have been sent to jail for that lie. But the other medals are OK to steal.
Stolen Valor sure changed the way I look at Medals people claim to have.


13 posted on 04/30/2006 3:14:35 PM PDT by gunnedah
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To: SandRat

Best retribution is to make them earn it.


14 posted on 04/30/2006 3:28:56 PM PDT by Lady Jag (Learning to shrug is the beginning of wisdom)
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To: SandRat

Hmm, I think I know where three Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star are that should also be taken back.


15 posted on 04/30/2006 3:32:58 PM PDT by mtbopfuyn (I think the border is kind of an artificial barrier - San Antonio councilwoman Patti Radle)
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To: mtbopfuyn

Don't forget the Silver Star or the Honorable Characterization on the DD215.


16 posted on 04/30/2006 3:37:43 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: darkwing104

"You can bet there will be a few more from the Gulf War, Bosnia, Iraq and Afghanistan...Keep up the work. At least I have my 214 to back me up."



You mean it didn't burn up in the 1973 fire in the St. Louis records center?

If you don't know, one of the common explanations for no proof of military exploits is that fire, but the destroyed records have nothing to do with most veterans, also they have largly been rebuilt.




17 posted on 04/30/2006 3:39:09 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: SandRat
Thanks for your help sending me to Michael 81dus.He sent me the medals I had lost in a fire in record time.When I asked him for a fax number to send a copy of my orders to,he replied,"You cant wear them without them,so I trust you".I am trying to figure out if the people who try and get away with that nonsense are stupid,have mental issues,or a death wish.If the perps get caught by the wrong person,they could be in for some serious physical harm.On the wall of the Big Springs VA hospital, is a wall of MOH winners,pictures and the story behind it.It is one of my favorite places to be while I am there.They are the real deal.Congratulations to the men and women who expose them.
18 posted on 04/30/2006 3:40:17 PM PDT by xarmydog
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To: SandRat

What the hell is a "DD215" Did they change the form, or is that what imposters use?



I have a DD214.


19 posted on 04/30/2006 3:47:22 PM PDT by E.Allen
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To: laconic

this is probably the biggest collection of poseurs and their stories on the imternet....the GOOD part is that THESE have been busted!

http://www.pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies.htm

PHONIES and WANNABE'S
A NATIONWIDE EPIDEMIC

LISTS OF NAMES: those claiming Vietnam POW

A
B C
D E - F
G H I - J K
L M N - O
P - R S T - V
W - Z

V V A - P.O.W. Claims by members of Vietnam Veterans of America


More NAMES and more Reported Claims:
Medal of Honor, Other than Vietnam POWs, Son Tay Raiders, DSC, DFC, Purple Heart, Silver Star, Bronze Star, Navy Cross, SEALS, Rangers, Pilots, Special Forces, Green Berets, Combat, Vietnam Helicopter Pilots, Flying Tigers, DOUBT EVERYTHING, Don't Encourage

A
B C D E - G
H - J K - L
M N - R
S T - V
W - Z


20 posted on 04/30/2006 3:47:46 PM PDT by Vn_survivor_67-68
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To: E.Allen

A DD215 is issued when something is added to a DD214 or the DD214 is changed by BUPERS/AG/whateverit is for the AF.


21 posted on 04/30/2006 3:48:47 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: ansel12
You mean it didn't burn up in the 1973 fire in the St. Louis records center?

Wouldn't work for me. I retired in 2005, besides the service member is given a 214 upon separation...

As I currently do and will always do, warn people most of the war stories you hear are pure B.S.


22 posted on 04/30/2006 3:49:40 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: SandRat

Oh, Okay, so a DD215 is what Kerry has?


23 posted on 04/30/2006 4:00:56 PM PDT by E.Allen
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To: E.Allen

first a DD214 and then JimmieCartah authorized him to get a DD215. That's why we want him to sign the SF180 so that we all can see what he's hiding. We think we know and it would be a real corker. Just ask 69-69TonkinGulfYachtClub to fill you in.


24 posted on 04/30/2006 4:08:32 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country. What else needs to be said?)
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To: Vn_survivor_67-68

WoW!What an eye opener!


25 posted on 04/30/2006 4:10:40 PM PDT by xarmydog
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To: darkwing104

One of my little favorites is to simply ask them about their work uniform.

I've had guys tell me they can't remember what division they were in while doing their heroic infantry combat.


Another bust is asking the Spec ops phonies about jump school, that throws them.

As a retiree you would be very good at this, most phonies know about the big items like the armament, but they don't know about the little daily life feel, that any veteran from any branch of the service has plenty of memories of.


26 posted on 04/30/2006 4:14:58 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: gunnedah
Stolen Valor sure changed the way I look at Medals people claim to have.

Same here. I can spot more phonies since I read the book than before, like people claiming to be POW's in Vietnam. I can just go the back of Stolen Valor and check their name against the official DOD Vietnam POW list and I never spot their names. B.G. Burkett also has published a Vietnam Medal of Honor Recepient list, a Distinguished Service Cross List, Navy Cross List and Air Force Cross List from the Vietnam War in the back of Stolen Valor

Just ask some one claiming to have served in Vietnam how Bien Hoa is pronounced!!! How they answer that can really get your suspicions up.

Stolen Valor also has a website; below is the link:

http://www.stolenvalor.com/

Burkett has sure busted a lot of phonies over the years. He's also taught D.A.'s throughout the country to ferret out false cases of PTSD claimed as a legal defense by defendants to get out of whatever crime they committed by showing D.A.'s how to obtain the defendents real service records (if they were even in the service to begin with). He has personally taken witness stands throughout the country to testify that defendants claiming PTSD from Vietnam were never in Vietnam to begin with or if they were there, never saw any combat, by producing the defendants real service records or showing the person was never in the service to begin with.

27 posted on 04/30/2006 4:19:45 PM PDT by AmericaOne (Borders, Language and Culture - You Don't Have These, You Don't Have A Country)
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To: All
We have a local restaurant owner here in Tulsa who likes to tell a story of his parachuting into Vietnam, being captured by the enemy and his escaping while his captors were smoking pot.

I befriended him and then started asking questions.

He had no photos or records, a brand new jungle green uniform that would not have been issued at the time he claims he was there, virtually no knowledge of Vietnam or the slang we spoke at the time...and he claims that his mission was so hush-hush that it is all still classified.

If it was so classified, I resaoned, why was he blabbing about it at the bar?

I confronted him with my doubts and the guy went ballistic.

Not wanting to get myself in trouble, I refrained from clobbering the guy.

I would like to expose him publically, but I'm unsure how to do it without getting into legal trouble and maybe, just maybe, he might have been there, although I'm 99.9% sure he's a fraud.

28 posted on 04/30/2006 4:29:04 PM PDT by battlegearboat
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To: AmericaOne
What is amazing to me is how many politicians were either fooled or went along with some of these people and how they refused to do anything about it after it was brought to their attention. It is also amazing how many people collected V.A. benefits that were not entitled to them.Burkett really had a grasp of what was happening for our government not to take any action against the fraud.I am also sure a lot of so called medical professionals helped perpetuate this fraud also.
29 posted on 04/30/2006 4:34:22 PM PDT by gunnedah
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To: All
Urggh. There has been a big to-do in the USMC about decorations and awards. Even having the right entry in your SRB is no guarantee, sometimes the admin bubbas screw up and you end up having an award on the books that you don't rate.

That, of course, is in a whole different league than claiming a medal or combat record that you blatantly should not be wearing or blabbing about. I can see where a draconian law might put some pretty innocent service people in the hurt locker, but the punishment for out-and-out fraud should be severe.

Perhaps the best way to do it would be to put the offender in front of a special court martial. I know that it isn't a legal possibility with civilians, but in my perfect world that is what would happen. That way honest mistakes would get the slack called for, and frauds would be hammered hard.

Too bad it isn't legal.
30 posted on 04/30/2006 5:19:51 PM PDT by M1911A1
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To: battlegearboat
I would like to expose him publically, but I'm unsure how to do it without getting into legal trouble and maybe, just maybe, he might have been there, although I'm 99.9% sure he's a fraud.

I know Special Forces, POWS's and the Seals have association websites that has a "phonies" section. If the guy is claiming to be a former SF, you can try their websites. I don't have their websites links handy, but I do know that you can report phonies on their websites and they can check the guy out or refer your inquiry to someone that will check this indivdual out. You can probably find their websites listed on Google, Yahoo, etc.

You can also go to stolenvalor.com . B.G. Burkett, the author of "Stolen Valor", has a link on how to obtain anyones service records thru a Freedom of Information Act Request. If you haven't read Stolen Valor, I suggest you do so. It is a very good read. Below is the link to the Stolen Valor Website link:

http://www.stolenvalor.com/

31 posted on 04/30/2006 5:31:11 PM PDT by AmericaOne (Borders, Language and Culture - You Don't Have These, You Don't Have A Country)
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To: gunnedah

bump


32 posted on 04/30/2006 5:41:40 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (If you can read, thank a teacher. If you read English, thank a soldier.)
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To: gunnedah
What is amazing to me is how many politicians were either fooled or went along with some of these people and how they refused to do anything about it after it was brought to their attention. It is also amazing how many people collected V.A. benefits that were not entitled to them.Burkett really had a grasp of what was happening for our government not to take any action against the fraud.I am also sure a lot of so called medical professionals helped perpetuate this fraud also.

Same here. They never bother to do a simple FOIA request on these individuals, especially those who are getting "late" medals. They could've saved themselves a lot of embarrassment and handwringing if they checked out the individual first. They probably saw some political advantage being around these phonies, like they are friendly towards veterans or something like that.

As far as collecting VA Benefits, that has turned into a cottage industry. That is why, along with their dress and demeanors, that Burkett calls these folks "professional veterans". The VVA and others put out how to pamphlets on getting VA disability benefits, even on what to say to the doctor doing your C&P exam. I think their pamphlet is titled "Your Guide to Tax-Free Living".

As far as PTSD goes, Burkett did point out that he does in fact believe that these medical professionals have a vested interest in getting as many veterans rated for PTSD as possible; i.e. keeping there jobs. Even when they know the guy is a phoney, they won't report them. Even if they did, the VA Inspector Generals Office would probably do nothing anyways, for the same reason as the medical professionals. The VA loses funding if these phoney PTSD patients were ever publicly acknowledged phonies by the VA and stripped of their benefits.

33 posted on 04/30/2006 5:44:59 PM PDT by AmericaOne (Borders, Language and Culture - You Don't Have These, You Don't Have A Country)
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To: ansel12
I don't tell war stories because most people don't want to hear them. No biggie; No big claims, so there is nothing to lie about. I never worked for the CIA, was a P.O.W, or have in a fire-fight. Just did my job.

It's the little day to day stuff that me and my fellow retirees would lock-on to really quick, especially when you have "been there and done that". Good method, I'll think I'll use it.


34 posted on 04/30/2006 5:46:21 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: darkwing104
I don't tell war stories because most people don't want to hear them. No biggie; No big claims, so there is nothing to lie about. I never worked for the CIA, was a P.O.W, or have in a fire-fight. Just did my job.

Yep. I was a mechanic. Just did my best to fix broken howitzers. I was never involved with the CIA, in fact to the best of my knowledge I never saw a "spook" in my year in country. Never was a POW, although I did meet one several years later after they were released. Never did met a MOH winner, although I pride myself on being a friend of Ernie Savage, who I think really deserves a MOH.

35 posted on 04/30/2006 6:01:26 PM PDT by SLB (Wyoming's Alan Simpson on the Washington press - "all you get is controversy, crap and confusion")
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To: SLB
I was never involved with the CIA, in fact to the best of my knowledge I never saw a "spook" in my year in country.

Heard about them while TDY in Bosnia, while stationed at Ft Meade, but I never have meet one. I think they are a myth... :-)


36 posted on 04/30/2006 6:32:52 PM PDT by darkwing104 (Let's get dangerous)
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To: SandRat

BTTT


37 posted on 05/01/2006 3:02:59 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: AmericaOne
Government has no accountability and they are more guilty of fraud than those they are sending to jail. America is the great give away nation and it has started to put a strain on all the working class.Our politicians sell us out or give us away daily.
38 posted on 05/01/2006 6:04:44 AM PDT by gunnedah
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To: gunnedah

How true!!!


39 posted on 05/01/2006 6:14:54 AM PDT by AmericaOne (Borders, Language and Culture - You Don't Have These, You Don't Have A Country)
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To: ansel12
You mean it didn't burn up in the 1973 fire in the St. Louis records center?

If you don't know, one of the common explanations for no proof of military exploits is that fire, but the destroyed records have nothing to do with most veterans, also they have largly been rebuilt

That can be a real explanation though - I know because that's exactly what happened to mine. I enlisted in St. Louis, Mo. in July '63, when I tried to get a V.A. loan in '76 I was told that my records had been destroyed in that fire. I finally got approved when they found my record on micro film in Washington, D.C. It just took a lot longer than normal to get approved because the gov. doesn't get in a hurry about such things.

40 posted on 05/01/2006 6:20:06 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Sgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

These are the years most effected by the fire.

"World War I:
Army
Nov. 1, 1912 – Sept. 7, 1939

World War II:
Army
Dec. 8, 1939 – Dec. 31, 1946

Post World War II:
Army
Dec. 1, 1947 - Dec. 31, 1959


Air Force
Dec. 25, 1947 - Dec. 31, 1963




But in general for most posers claiming heroism in the Army of the late sixties and early seventies, and fake Navy Seals
it doesn't offer cover.

As you point out most of the records have been recovered any way.

Besides in conversation you don't really expect someone to pull out a DD 214, but the way the subject is handled can be revealing.

In 76 there was still confusion surrounding the losses from the fire. (


41 posted on 05/01/2006 8:27:09 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12
Air Force Dec. 25, 1947 - Dec. 31, 1963

That one covered me.

My 18th birth day was June 29th, 1963. The A.F. recruitor told me not to bother to register for the draft because my enlistment date was July 8, 1963.

I served 4 years active duty and about 3 months after my discharge I got my draft notice, they told me because I failed to register for the draft that I was being drafted.

Fortunately for me that was before the St. Louis fire and I was still inactive reserve anyway. It was quite a hassle anyway.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the phony heros.

I'm not a hero but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

42 posted on 05/01/2006 8:43:36 AM PDT by Graybeard58 (Remember and pray for Sgt. Matt Maupin - MIA/POW- Iraq since 04/09/04)
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To: Graybeard58

The Air Force used to rarely play into the phoney vet world, although among professionals I'll bet there were some fake pilots.


I'll bet that the coverage of the Air Force para rescue elites will lead to many fakes claiming that background.


When I was young and spent a lot of time in bars, I really enjoyed exposing the fakers.


43 posted on 05/01/2006 9:09:29 AM PDT by ansel12
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