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From gay to God
The Nation Newspaper (Barbados) ^ | April 30, 2006 | Melissa Wickham

Posted on 04/30/2006 5:01:22 PM PDT by DBeers

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To: Search4Truth

Wow! Good stuff.


51 posted on 05/01/2006 6:02:05 PM PDT by I got the rope
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To: SoulMan

Thank you for your kind words.

Change it to insignificant in the whole scheme of things!

Real kin are those who understand and experience that God is indeed the Father of all. I find quite a few family members here on FR.


52 posted on 05/01/2006 6:11:01 PM PDT by little jeremiah (Tolerating evil IS evil.)
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To: scripter

"Some folks use Christian organizations to leave the homosexual lifestyle. Some use Jewish. Some Mormon. Some secular. Some..."

There is only one way that a man is saved from his sin, and that is by the power of the Holy Spirit. And there is only one way to be in the Spirit, and that is to be Born Again.

No organization of man can save men from their sin. Only the Spirit of a Holy God can. It was not that long ago that that was common knowledge among Christians.


53 posted on 05/02/2006 9:20:08 PM PDT by Search4Truth (Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God - Thomas Jefferson.)
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To: Search4Truth
There is only one way that a man is saved from his sin ...No organization of man can save men from their sin.

Definitely worth repeating.

54 posted on 05/02/2006 10:42:10 PM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: scripter; Search4Truth; little jeremiah
No organization of man can save men from their sin.

As a man who has struggled with homosexuality in my own life, I have spent a good deal of time both dealing with my own struggle and observing others who are dealing with this issue, especially men who also seek to overcome homosexuality. They are my brothers.

My observation is that faith can be an extremely strong motivator and can help a man stick with his struggle when the going gets tough. However, I have also observed that faith alone doesn't do it.

If a man doesn't do the hard psychological work of looking within his own soul, understanding what led to his homosexuality, how his actions and beliefs are reinforcing homosexuality and learning when he can do to change the patterns of thought and behavior, he won't get very far in recovery. I have seen men pray and pray and pray for God to free them of homosexuality, but without doing the hard work of developing insight and acting upon that insight, they don't get very far. They get frustrated and end up saying that homosexuality is "genetic" and can't be changed. Some end up joining "churches," like the Metropolitan Community Church, whose doctrine is that homosexuality is NOT A SIN! A few become the most hardened, cynical "Gay" advocates, I guess, because God didn't give them what they wanted.

In the article at the beginning of this thread, Darryl Foster says that even after his faith experience, change didn't happen overnight. He had to "reorient" himself. He demonstrates some insight into the factors that led to his homosexuality (poor relationship with father, isolation, molestation in childhood).

I am a great believer in the power of faith. But it is a mistake to tell people that faith alone will get them out of homosexuality. If all a man does is pray, he will end up frustrated, and may go back to the homosexual lifestyle. There is great DANGER in telling men faith alone can do it.

My belief is that got gave us MINDS and we should use them. The power of the human mind is unfathomable. We need God's word to guide us into what is the GOOD. However, we also need to use advances achieved by psychology and science to help men out of homosexuality. Science, psychology, insight must all be harnessed to work for the good, in this case freedom from homosexuality for men who seek it. One of the greatest tragedies of our time is the scientific and psychological community has abandoned men who struggle homosexuality, telling them that homosexuality is O.K. Science without faith quickly becomes just another evil.

These insights are not from a book. They are the story of my life. I would like to know what you think of them.
55 posted on 05/03/2006 4:44:51 AM PDT by SoulMan
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To: SoulMan

Thanks for your insights, coming from experience. I would agree that God has given us minds and intelligence and His spirit can speak to us as well, giving us insights. Introspection comes when we move closer to God's will, and reveals much that the mind's and senses' desires have clouded.

The more we desire to do the will of God, especially from love and gratitude rather than fear, the more He removes the worldly desires, and gives us the motivation to serve Him. Part of which is showing us our secret, previously hidden ill motives. Knowledge of God (which cannot be separate from love) leads to self-knowledge as well.

I'm glad you tell your story here, the more people understand that no one HAS to be "gay", the better. People also don't HAVE to be drunks, dope fiends, porn users, adulterers, and so on.

We can be free and we are meant to be free.


56 posted on 05/03/2006 6:33:45 AM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: SoulMan

Just adding - it is a great shame that so many professionals and the organizations they create have become the servants of the "gay" agenda. This is indeed a great tragedy.


57 posted on 05/03/2006 6:41:27 AM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: SoulMan
From everything I've read on the subject, faith alone doesn't get all men (or women) to overcome their struggle with homosexuality. I know some here disagree and think just confessing the sin (whatever that sin may be) and moving on is all it takes. While that may be true for some it certainly isn't true for everybody.

If a man doesn't do the hard psychological work of looking within his own soul, understanding what led to his homosexuality, how his actions and beliefs are reinforcing homosexuality and learning when he can do to change the patterns of thought and behavior, he won't get very far in recovery.

I think that's an excellent observation and hope others read and ponder your words.

This is a difficult paragraph to write and I don't have the time to form it properly: One thing I don't do is equate leaving the homosexual lifestyle with a salvation experience, where the salvation experience is the protestant Christian salvation experience. I say that because some people leave the homosexual lifestyle via help from Christian organizations and those organizations may lead somebody to a protestant salvation experience. Others leave the homosexual lifestyle via Jewish organizations, but by definition cannot be labeled a protestant salvation experience. Some leave the homosexual lifestyle by Mormon organizations, and by no means is that considered the traditional Christian religion. I think it's possible to leave the homosexual lifestyle via help from secular organizations as well.

We need God's word to guide us into what is the GOOD. However, we also need to use advances achieved by psychology and science to help men out of homosexuality.

Some here would vehemently disagree. Indeed, God gave us minds and we should use them. As I said in post 48: different people respond to different stimuli/methods/messages.

Looking at my own life and the struggles I've had for years, I can say there are some things God has completely delivered me from and other areas in which I continue to struggle. Now, maybe I continue to struggle because I haven't completely given it over to God. Or maybe my struggles are a reminder that I'm human and remain to keep me humble.

I believe anything is possible with God. He may choose to completely heal some from homosexuality without any residual homosexual thoughts, but others may continue their struggle. The apostle Paul had a thorn in his side that as far as we know was never removed. We don't even know what that thorn was, but we know it's something Paul struggled with. And to be very clear, in no way am I advocating Paul's thorn was homosexuality.

That's all the time I have for now. If something isn't clear I'd be more than happy to expand on it as time allows.

58 posted on 05/03/2006 7:46:30 AM PDT by scripter ("You don't have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body." - C.S. Lewis)
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To: DBeers

That is odd. My nephew who is gay is so feminine and he always was. He was always small and thin and feminine and played with dolls and never had a date in high school. His hormones are out of balance, with the estrogens outnumbering the testosterone.


59 posted on 05/03/2006 10:02:02 AM PDT by buffyt (America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people. Pres. George Bush)
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To: little jeremiah
The more we desire to do the will of God, especially from love and gratitude rather than fear, the more He removes the worldly desires, and gives us the motivation to serve Him.

I won't respond by saying you're a cool dude, as that went over like a lead balloon the last time!

I will say that I don't think I am quite at your spiritual level, but one thing I noticed was that when I truly left homosexuality behind, I became free of depression. When I became free of depression, I was able to worry less about myself and more about others. I did take a small step toward what God expects of me.

About telling my story, looking back it seems like growing out of homosexuality is the most normal thing in the world. It's hard for me to comprehend that it is considered exceptional.
60 posted on 05/03/2006 8:55:34 PM PDT by SoulMan
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To: little jeremiah
Just adding - it is a great shame that so many professionals and the organizations they create have become the servants of the "gay" agenda. This is indeed a great tragedy.

If you stop to think about it, it is an UNFATHOMABLE tragedy. Best not to even think about the full implication of this turn of events.
61 posted on 05/03/2006 8:58:38 PM PDT by SoulMan
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To: SoulMan

Yes. The so-called elites, leaders of society have mostly gone mad and are leading countless numbers off the cliff. Only some make it out alive. Almost always in the face of ridicule, bad advice, criticism, and even worse. Swimming upstream when all one's fellows are swimming downstream takes determination, courage, and some measure of spiritual vision.

My level? I see it from a distance. I read this analogy once.

When on the path to God, it's like a traveler returning home after a long painful journey to distant lands. Finally, he's turned around and starting home. He's still in the forest, but now and then reaches the top of a hill, from which he can see his home in the distance. He's happy, because he knows he's on his way home.


62 posted on 05/03/2006 9:42:23 PM PDT by little jeremiah
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To: SoulMan

Thank you SoulMan for sharing with us the story of your struggles.

Don't think for a moment that you are alone in your struggle with sin. We have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We have all offended God and violated God's moral law - the Ten Commandments. And for our offenses, we are all condemned on the Day of Judgment to a lake of fire in Hell. And as long as we are in the flesh, we will all struggle with sinful temptations, but temptation is not sin. That is until the day that we are freed from the bonds of the flesh and join the Heavenly Father in spirit in eternity; if we will confess and repent of our sins, and put our faith in Jesus Christ for our salvation. Praise the Lord.

Since God is the creator of all the heavens and the earth, he can use all to his will; and he does. But it is the gravest of errors to think that it is by the devices of men that man is freed from the bonds of his sin. To do so is to say that some of man’s problems are too big for God; that the created is greater than the Creator.

Praying is important; it is our dialogue with God. Bible tells us to pray "unceasingly". One can't be a Christian unless he dialogues with God. That is how God directs and corrects us. He is the great Councilor. But praying is of no value if one is not obedient to what God direct us to do, through prayer. And that often, if not always, requires great faith in God to do. Because what God often directs us to do is the antithesis of the dictates of popular culture. So to be obedient to God requires great faith in God. We must trust in Him absolutely. If we truly trust Him with our life eternal, then we certainly can trust Him with our mortal lives.

Through our absolute trust in God and the Word of God, God bestows on us the blessing of the Holy Spirit. It is through the Holy Spirit that God does His miraculous work in and through us. It is God’s power in us. It is not a power that we can use, but a power that uses us. And we must never forget that, that whereas we are children of the Almighty, we are also servants of Lord. All that we ask of the Father in His name and to His glory, He will give us. But to receive the Holy Spirit we must be Born Again into the Spirit. It is in this rebirth into Spirit that God gives us a new life, and we then become dead to who we once were in the flesh. We become a new creature in Christ. All things are made new in our rebirth into the Spirit.

No good ever comes from the minds of men, who have not first humbled themselves before and submitted their wills to God – who have been Born Again. The Bible tells us that there is none good, not one, save that of God. The differences between men who are in the Spirit and who are in the flesh, are like that of Thomas Jefferson and Joseph Stalin.

Do not put your faith in men or their devices. Put your absolute faith in God and let Him use men, and their devices, and you, to His glory. Through the Holy Spirit.

I will pray for your victory over sin and for the new purpose God has for you, to His glory. Feel free to PM me if you feel the need.

In Christ’s love. S4T.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

1 Timothy 1:8-11 But we know that the law is good, if a man uses it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For fornicators, for homosexuals, for slave traders, for liars, for perjurers, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Psalms 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

Galatians 3:24 Therefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creation: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.


63 posted on 05/05/2006 9:48:29 AM PDT by Search4Truth (The law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.)
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