Posted on 05/04/2006 10:29:38 PM PDT by Aussie Dasher
The Catholic Archbishop of Sydney, Cardinal George Pell, has angered Australian Muslims with his description of their holy book as an incitement to violence.
In a speech delivered to a group of Catholic business leaders at the Legatus summit in the United States, the Archbishop also took aim at what he claimed were hysterical and extreme claims about global warming.
Dr Pell's central argument is that an understanding of Islam is vital for the future of western democracies.
September 11, according to the Cardinal, was a wake-up call that prompted him to dust off a copy of the Koran.
"I recommend that you too read this sacred text of the Muslims, because the challenge of Islam will be with us for the remainder of our lives," he said.
Cardinal Pell says the Koran is riddled with so many invocations to violence that after about 50 or 60 or 70 pages, he stopped taking notes of them.
He also says that considered strictly on its own terms, Islam is not a tolerant religion and its capacity for far-reaching renovation is severely limited.
He points to the difficulty that scholars and commentators face when analysing the Koran, such as receiving death threats and violence when questioning the divine origin of the holy book.
Comments 'ill-informed'
Keysar Trad, founder of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia, says this is not the first time Cardinal Pell has made "ill-informed comments".
"I've already had one meeting with him after he made some uninformed comments about Islam in the past," says Mr Trad.
"And my door is open to have further meetings with him, and to explain to him in more detail.
"If he was to approach this with an objective mind then he would find this to be a very spiritually rewarding experience.
"But these comments that seem to be totally subjective, an off-the-cuff dismissal of the teachings of one of the world's great religions."
Mr Trad says rather damage the image of Islam, the Cardinal's comments do discredit to his office more than anything else.
"I think there will be many Catholics out there who'll be cringing when they hear these comments, and they'll be saying 'what happened to the legacy of Pope John Paul II? The Catholic Church is being changed from the top and not necessarily for the better'."
Climate change
Cardinal Pell's speech also described concerns about global warming as "hysteric and extreme".
He says these worries are a symptom of pagan emptiness.
Cardinal Pell says in the past, pagans sacrificed animals and even humans in vain attempts to placate the gods but today they demand a reduction in carbon dioxide emissions.
Senator Christine Milne says the Cardinal's comments are unhelpful and insulting.
"I think it's unfortunate that Cardinal Pell refers to a pagan emptiness and western fears about global warming as being hysteric and extreme," she said.
"Cardinal Pell must surely be aware of the late Pope John Paul's comments about the need for ecological conversion.
"He must also be aware that there's a very strong view in the Catholic faith across the world that we need to recognise that we are stewards of God's earth and therefore have a responsibility to maintain it in its pristine form."
I am still waiting to see just one headline that reads "Mooselimb leader angers Christians" and a subsequent article that quotes an "expert" telling us why the mooselimb leader is an unreasonable fanatic.
Cardinal Pell tells it how it is! BUMP!
bump & a ping
I would say the Cardinal just hit for the cycle, to use an American metaphor -- or he's kicked a ripper, as you Aussie blokes might prefer.
The only quibble I have is that the only understanding of Islam that is worth anything to us is to observe the fruit it produces. What other world religions germinates terrorists like weeds?
Cousin Vinnnie
Wishful thinking, Catholics understand very well what islam is, a religion of violent, demented barbarians.
Piss on these muslim assholes. Sooner or later, we will have to kill them all. The sooner we start, the better.
Haven't seen that headline anywhere, but if your interested in a book about it I suggest Jerusalem Countdown by John Hagee(senior pastor of Cornerstone Church.
Amen to that!
"Dr Pell's central argument is that an understanding of Islam is vital for the future of western democracies"
Violent-ideology-exposure bump.
But what you should keep in mind is that Islam states that anywhere that muslims live, the country must be governed by a muslim government. So what country do you live in? Are there muslims living in your country? Do the math! Or logic or whatever you like.
Perhaps ABC will report that story like it did the one about Cardinal Pell.
Oh, ABC is the Australian Broadcasting Corporation.
Never mind.
Why can't we get cardinals like Pell in the U.S?
Maybe we can trade Maphoney of California for him.
"Cardinal Pell tells it how it is! BUMP!"
nah, a real cardinal would knock down the Taj Mahoney too and build something more like St. Louis Cathedral ....
Uh...NO. Most certainly NOT.
Judaism and Christianity are closely related. Islam is apart, and very distinct from both. Enroll in some comparative religion classes taught by a large church, and you'll have the (rather significant!) differences pointed out to you.
Islam arose on the basis of their Moon God. They also had (what? 360?) over 300 gods--they were VERY polytheistic. Scholars have studied the pedigree of Allah and found that he incorporates elements of several of their gods, but most specifically, their Moon God.
Mohammed noted the monotheism of the Jews and Christians, and noted the chaos of his own tribe, and their many gods. He set out--like Joseph Smith did, 1,300 years later--to create a religion, and that's just what he did.
Plenty of people here on FR who can tell ya the history of Mad Mo'. (Muhammed.)
Please don't equate monotheistic religions as all the same, or having the same root--they do not.
Baal is not Jehovah, and Allah is also not Jehovah.
We tend to "suffer" from our "modern" viewpoint--our own brand of ego/culturalcentrism--and wrongly ASSUME that cultures move from many gods to a few and then down to one, and by the time they've narrowed it down to one, we're all talking about the same god, right? WRONG.
Please don't make a wrong assumption.
Allah is more of a deist's god--he is not personal (an important Judeo-Christian characteristic), and has walked away from his creation, interacting with it but little, and showing little interest in it. He is capricious, and not entirely predictable, despite what is written in the Koran, because he changes his mind. That explains why Moslems are so frightened about What May Happen upon their death--you see, Allah is just as likely to punish as he is to reward.
Moslems who convert to Christianity speak of a great relieve of worry being lifted from them. Allay is "all merciful" they say, but he's not consistently so. (I know--it doesn't make sense to me, either.)
Anyway, you should also be aware that Mad Mo' actually visited Jewish scholars with his "plan" for the new add-on religion. He was rebuffed. From then on, Jews were fer killin', not makin' friends with, pardner. Sour grapes?
I have too much information to say in a small post. One other thing you should know is that Christians (with our tri-partite God...one "what" and three "Whos") stands in contradistinction to Jews who are very strictly monotheist. Jews and Moslems are strict monotheists, and so are Christians, just that the Godhead itself is comprised of three personalities. He's a different sort of being.
Enough said.
Sauron
Amen, Cadinal Bell! Amen!
Maintain it in its pristine form?! What has she been smoking?
Curse and damn the Prophet Mohammed (Piss Be Upon Him)
ATTABOY!
As I am fond of repeating, NEVER TRUST A RELIGION THAT CAME FROM THE DESERT!
Bloodthirsty land makes bloodthirsty people, who make bloodthirsty gods, and results in bloodthirsty theocracy.
/Constitution-quotin', gun-totin', US flag-wavin' Libertarian atheist
I was never so shocked as when the now deceased Pope kissed the Koran....this is refreshing news.
With all due respect, the Spanish Inquisition, the Wars of the Reformation, and the centuries of pogroms against European Jews beg to differ there.
All those virgins.
BUMP
Yeah... they were thinking: why haven't more Christian leaders talk this way publicly? Now, how many Islamic leaders speak ill about Christians in their meetings, and people simply find them, 'so what'?
Yep... I can't remember the last time a Christian cut the head off a hostage.
Keysar Trad needs to look at the plank in his eye.
Thanks for the ping. I like Cardinal Pell.
"I think it's unfortunate that Cardinal Pell refers to a pagan emptiness and western fears about global warming as being hysteric and extreme," she said.
No senator... your constant whinings and rantings about Global warming are unhelpful and insulting, and that its full of pagan emptiness and fear.
Wrong. That is not the focus of Catholic Doctrine.
Jeff... you're right on target!
I don't recall any scriptures where Jesus Extolled his Disciples to save the earth. He went about saving souls.
This moral relative nonsense that the heart of Christianity is about taking care of the earth is more new age garbage.
Don't get me wrong, I love nature, and all the wonders it holds, but I am not looking to it for salvation.
""I think there will be many Catholics out there who'll be cringing when they hear these comments...."
Dream on. The Cardinal is absolutely right.
Doesn't take much to anger Muslims - but still. I'm glad someone finally said what a lot of people have been thinking for a while now.
Those were examples of ambitious and bloodthirsty people using religion as cover for their conquest. Particularly the Inquisition.
Compare the life of Jesus and the life of Mohammed, for the true example of what real CHristianity and real Islam is supposed to look like. Jesus healed people, spoke the truth, set captives free, and died for those he loved. Mohammed was a child molester, murderer, warlord, and liar.
Exactly. Responsible environmental stewardship and the enviro-whack religion are totally different.
He points to the difficulty that scholars and commentators face when analysing the Koran, such as receiving death threats and violence when questioning the divine origin of the holy book.
Doesn't that sort of prove his point ?
Two other ways to describe what Cardinal Pell said:
Bases loaded home run
and
Hat trick
Islam must be crushed. Islam must not be recognized as a religion any more than Nazism was. All Mosques should be declared delinquent of taxes owed retroactive from the day they were built. ANY gathering of Islamics should be PROSECUTED as CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT MASS MURDER, found guilty and deported. Country by country, state by state, town by town, foot by foot, inch by inch, the Islamic cancer must be eradicated.
Sooner is better. The war is on, it's time for non-muslims to understand that.
Hi Sauron,
Excellent post! You really hit the nail on the head, as it were, but I'd like to add one more significant difference between Islam and the Judeo-Christian faith (or more specifically, the Christian faith). Islam denies that God had a son (Jesus) and they deny that Jesus died on the cross...rather, Allah put someone who resembled Jesus on the cross. This is a MAJOR point because according to the Christian faith, the ONLY way to heaven is through Jesus. His death paid the price, once for all, for our sins. Islam specifically denies this happened.
One last point---the Bible says "you will know them by their fruits...". What "fruit" does Islam have to show for itself?
Again, your post was spot-on!
Brian
That's a great quote. I hope President Bush reads it and takes it to heart.
I'm no Catholic, but Cardinal Pell rocks!
It reminds me of the names of various organizations in George Orwell's 1984 (e.g. Ministry of Peace, etc.).
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