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Why Isn't Socialism Dead?
TCS Daily ^ | May 5, 2006 | Lee Harris

Posted on 05/05/2006 9:51:03 AM PDT by Jane2005

Socialism may well spring back to life with a force shocking to those who have declared socialism to be no longer viable. Lee Harris on the challenge that capitalism faces today. Whether it will rise to the challenge is perhaps the most urgent question of our time.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: leeharris; socialism
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1 posted on 05/05/2006 9:51:05 AM PDT by Jane2005
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To: Jane2005

2 posted on 05/05/2006 9:51:47 AM PDT by Maximus of Texas (On my signal, pull my finger.)
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To: Jane2005; Admin Moderator
You're supposed to post an excerpt from the actual article. And, in your case, this article has already been posted, with an excerpt.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1627233/posts

3 posted on 05/05/2006 9:53:10 AM PDT by TChris ("Wake up, America. This is serious." - Ben Stein)
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To: Jane2005

Because we feel sorry for losers?


4 posted on 05/05/2006 9:55:49 AM PDT by Finop
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To: Jane2005

Socialism isn't dead because there will always be a bunch of idiots who trumpet its ideals.

These are the same idiots that have never created anything, have nothing to lose, and are unable to process or accept rational thought, logical conclusions, or the lessons of history.


5 posted on 05/05/2006 9:55:57 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? YOU HAVE NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT. Actually, you lack even a legitimate excuse.)
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead Wasn't a "Search" Done?
6 posted on 05/05/2006 9:56:42 AM PDT by edpc
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To: Jane2005

Socialism is like the Black Death, except it's killed vastly more people.


7 posted on 05/05/2006 9:57:27 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: TChris

Clinton just proved Socialism is alive , with his Coalition

to TAKE SODA out of the schools.


8 posted on 05/05/2006 9:58:46 AM PDT by Zenith
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To: Jane2005

You don't seem to have an answer yet...and the answer is simple.

Socialism isn't dead because tyrants continue to seek the meant to control their fellow man.


9 posted on 05/05/2006 9:59:59 AM PDT by Maelstrom (To prevent misinterpretation or abuse of the Constitution:The Bill of Rights limits government power)
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To: Jane2005

Socialism never died because we have the liberal left.


10 posted on 05/05/2006 10:00:51 AM PDT by jazusamo (-- Married a WAC in '65 and I'm still reenlisting. :-)
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To: Jane2005
I'll tell you why socialism isn't dead. It's because there are many people out there with the following philosophy:

You got it. I want it.


11 posted on 05/05/2006 10:02:21 AM PDT by mc6809e
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To: Jane2005

Socialism isn't dead because, well, it appears that really bad ideas die very, very slowly.


12 posted on 05/05/2006 10:03:35 AM PDT by RexBeach ("There is no substitute for victory." -Douglas MacArthur)
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To: Jane2005

Socialism is a vampire. It sucks your blood, turns you into a zombie and cannot be killed easily.........


13 posted on 05/05/2006 10:04:36 AM PDT by Red Badger (In warfare there are no constant conditions. --- The Art of War by SunTzu)
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To: Jane2005

I dreamed I saw Joe Hill last night,
Alive as you and me.
Says I "But Joe, you're ten years dead"
"I never died" said he


14 posted on 05/05/2006 10:10:40 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Never question Bruce Dickinson!)
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead?

It's a great question that deserves a lot of attention. I hope we'll continue to talk about this topic, and hopefully come up with more ideas for slaying this ugly, multi-headed beast.

I'm glad the author wrote about this, and I'm glad you've posted it here.

15 posted on 05/05/2006 10:14:31 AM PDT by 68skylark
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To: Jane2005

Socialism isn't dead because, truth be told, most people like it.

Take a look around. You don't see many people crying about the redistributionist aspect of the home mortgage deduction, or the child credit, do you?

Many who consider themselves "conservative" are really more concerned about who "deserves" the benefits rather than whether they should exist at all.

This is why the republican party has gone the way it has too. No matter what kind of rhetoric they spout, they know that in order to get re-elected, they need to bring home the bacon.

If it didn't really work that way, believe me they wouldn't be doing it.


16 posted on 05/05/2006 10:14:31 AM PDT by Pessimist
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To: Jane2005
'Cause the "intellectuals" are always lookin' for some way to wriggle into power. Or at least for free handouts.
17 posted on 05/05/2006 10:15:20 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Jane2005
[ Why Isn't Socialism Dead? ]

BECAUSE... socialism is caused by democracies.. Democracies are the source of socialism.. Socialism is just a symptom.. of the social disease of a Democracy.. that is; democracy as a form of givernment..

Big difference between democracy and "A" democracy..
--------------------------

Democracy is the road to socialism. Karl Marx

Democracy is indispensable to socialism. The goal of socialism is communism. V.I. Lenin

The meaning of peace is the absence of opposition to socialism.- Karl Marx

AND;.........

Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide. – John Adams (1814)

NOTE; Thats WHY in the U.S. Constitution there are three words omitted ON PURPOSE...
1) democracy.. 2) democractic.. 3) and democrat.. Not to be found.. The founders KNEW a democracy was Slavery by Givernment.

18 posted on 05/05/2006 10:15:57 AM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: Jane2005
".....Why Isn't Socialism Dead?....."

Because you can't fix 'Stupid'.

19 posted on 05/05/2006 10:16:07 AM PDT by DoctorMichael (The Fourth Estate is a Fifth Column!!!!!!!!!)
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To: Jane2005

"Democracy will never work once the people learn they can vote largess for themselves."


20 posted on 05/05/2006 10:33:31 AM PDT by Old Seadog (Inside every old person is a young person saying "WTF happened?".)
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To: Jane2005

Why isn't socialism dead?

Because control freaks are born every minute.


21 posted on 05/05/2006 10:34:31 AM PDT by MonroeDNA (Look for the union label--on the bat crashing through your windshield!)
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead?

Because there are always avaricious idiots.
22 posted on 05/05/2006 10:35:05 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: Jane2005

Read Hayek's "The Road To Serfdom", and it is both illuminating and disheartening.

The book was written in...1940, if my memory serves me correctly, and he talks about how socialism has been discredited in many circles, how there is always that group that says "Oh, it just wasn't done correctly...", and how it keeps springing to life.

He also observes how far behind Europe we are in America in recognizing the socialism is always doomed to failure, and that we have yet to go through the process of finding out for ourselves that it won't work.

Of course, one can always argue that the Roosevelts were socialists (Eleanor most CERTAINLY was) and that we did go through our socialist cycle. But one only needs to look at Europe today, to see that the Phoenix of socialism continues to spring forth from the ashes.

In his great book "Basic Economics: A Citizen's Guide to The Economy", Thomas Sowell explains in his wonderful way how socialism will always, always, always fail in comparison to a capitalistic society.


23 posted on 05/05/2006 10:49:38 AM PDT by rlmorel ("Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks. Guilt does." Whittaker Chambers)
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To: Jane2005
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed; and all the world wondered after the beast.

The 7 heads are the 7 ideologies which have persecuted God's people: (1) paganism, (2) pseudo-Judaism, (3) Zoroastrianism, (4) Islam, (5) pseudo-Christianity, (6) Communism, and (7) Nazism. Communism seemed "as it were wounded to death" by the fall of the the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the collapse of the Soviet Union shortly thereafter. However, like some monster in a B movie, it is making a resurrenge, all according to what has been prophesied in the Scriptures. See this link.
24 posted on 05/05/2006 10:55:30 AM PDT by attiladhun2 (evolution has both deified and degraded humanity)
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To: attiladhun2
"Communism seemed "as it were wounded to death" by the fall of the the Berlin Wall in 1989 and the collapse of the Soviet Union shortly thereafter. However, like some monster in a B movie, it is making a resurrenge"

I never understood why people thought communism was DEAD AND NO LONGER A THREAT when the most populated country in the world (China) along with North Korea and others still practiced it.

25 posted on 05/05/2006 11:07:02 AM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: Jane2005

Socialism won't die, in my opinion, because it is a paradox and many people can't or wont understand that. Giving money to the poor seems like the obvious solution to poverty. I remember wondering, while I was in grade school, why world leaders were too stupid to figure it out.

Like some difficult questions whose answers are the opposite of what at first seems like the logical solution, the correctness of capitalism has to be learned through experience or direct education. It is not instinctual.


26 posted on 05/05/2006 11:14:57 AM PDT by God pays good
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead?

Because "Hope Springs Eternal"........

27 posted on 05/05/2006 11:17:23 AM PDT by ExSES (the "bottom-line")
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To: Jane2005

Why, indeed? And why do wicked governments rule countries whose people don't want them in power (North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Nigeria, Sudan, Venezuela, Myanmar, Nepal?


28 posted on 05/05/2006 11:20:46 AM PDT by RoadTest (The wicked love darkness; but God's people love the Light!)
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To: Jane2005
>>Why Isn't Socialism Dead?<<

Socialism isn't dead because the forces that create it are not dead. As long as there poverty stricken countries where the people believe that they have no other way to get ahead -they will grasp at a revolutionary philosophy that promises pie in the sky.

It may be socialism - where they say look at all the rich - we'll divide their wealth and all be better off. Or Islamic revolution - "throwing off the chains of oppression."

The poor people don't have a sense of the history, but they are very in touch with their suffering and desperation.

The socialist or Islamofacist leaders know the history and take advantage to gain power.
29 posted on 05/05/2006 11:21:59 AM PDT by gondramB (He who angers you, in part, controls you. But he may not enjoy what the rest of you does about it.)
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To: gondramB
"The socialist or Islamofacist leaders know the history and take advantage to gain power."

They also exploit the social problems and inequities of a country to agitate and gain power.

For instance, both have exploited racial problems in the United States.

30 posted on 05/05/2006 12:02:10 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: TAdams8591

>.They also exploit the social problems and inequities of a country to agitate and gain power.

For instance, both have exploited racial problems in the United States.<<

Yep. And they have less success when the core social injusticies are less. Its harder for the Balck Panthers to gain traction when many cops and city officials are black as well as many of the judges.


31 posted on 05/05/2006 12:04:59 PM PDT by gondramB (He who angers you, in part, controls you. But he may not enjoy what the rest of you does about it.)
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To: MonroeDNA

Because control freaks are born every minute.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Aye, they are the ones who can give you forty nine reasons why the true meaning of freedom is being free to do as they want you to do. But they are not really bad people, they only want to control you, "for your own good".


32 posted on 05/05/2006 2:10:01 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: Jane2005

Because not even most Republicans are against it. (See Social Security, Medicare, Food Stamps, etc.)


33 posted on 05/05/2006 2:11:23 PM PDT by Spiff ("They start yelling, 'Murderer!' 'Traitor!' They call me by name." - Gael Murphy, Code Pink leader)
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To: gondramB
"The poor people don't have a sense of the history, but they are very in touch with their suffering and desperation."

Also, one of the many reasons some countries get one lousy dictator after another.

34 posted on 05/05/2006 5:00:54 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: TAdams8591
To all Life is uncertain hence insecure.
Socialism appeals to that 'little insecure guy or gal' that is still inside of us no matter how tough or bombastic we might be about our sense of self.
It promises guaranteed security if not success in life with no effort & no risk.
(Now I am prepared to bashed for the following statement !)
It particularly appeals to women because it promises such 'no risk' guaranteed security. I argue that women are wired in their unconsciousness by evolution to seek security. Therefore such a philosophy has an instant emotional appeal. Of course women can use reason and avoid that intellectual seduction. I also argue that it appeals to the young for much the same reason. The young are coming from a 'secure' environment 'the home' and psychologically are drawn to something that promises the same 'no risk no worries ' environment.
35 posted on 05/05/2006 5:16:58 PM PDT by Reily
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To: TAdams8591

>>Also, one of the many reasons some countries get one lousy dictator after another.<<

Yep, I am so greatful our forefathers had the foresight to look beyond their immediate situation and craft our system of government- the quick fix of picking a new king must have tempting.


36 posted on 05/05/2006 6:09:35 PM PDT by gondramB (He who angers you, in part, controls you. But he may not enjoy what the rest of you does about it.)
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To: Jane2005

To quote (insert favorite useful leftist idiot's name here):

"Because socialism is a viable theory. We just haven't found the right socialists to implement it."

The problem with socialism (amongst it's most devout defenders) is NOT political. It is either a defect in logic (the belief that human nature either does not exist, or, if it does, that it can be controlled by the police state or a few verses of Kumbaya, chose the extreme that best suits your tolerance for violence), or more often the substitution of the theory and philosophy in place of religion (thank you Kant, Kofka, et. al.).

George Orwell (once a committed socialist) wrote at great length on these issues. I would recommend you find a really good compilation of his essays (not 1984, Animal Farm, The Road to Wigan Pier or Homage to Catalonia) to track his path from committed socialist to jaded realist. Penguin Books has published a really good one, and quite extensive (the Complete Essays of George Orwell).

Read Orwell and you'll see why some of his day thought it possible that socialism would work, and, consequently, why some of the same people finally discovered that it never could.


37 posted on 05/05/2006 6:21:27 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: snowrip

Correct. See post #37.

Per Orwell and the disfunctions of leftist ideology (paraphrasing here):

A leftist is usually someone who never truly wants, nor does he ever expect, to actually exercise political power. They'd rather deal in the fantasy world of theory. Consequently, when they DO manage to achieve power, they are paralyzed by the spectre of personal responsibility, either for their theory or their actions.

In effect, a leftist is your lazy teenager; he'd rather complain about his lot in life than get off his butt and actually do something about it, and if by some chance he's FORCED to take action, he lacks the practical experience to make a good job of it, usually.


38 posted on 05/05/2006 6:26:32 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: RexBeach

"Socialism isn't dead because, well, it appears that really bad ideas die very, very slowly."

I don't know about that. After all, Disco, polyesther leisure suits, pet rocks, earth shoes, platform shoes for men, Hai Karate, and Free Beer Night at the Ballpark all lasted less than a decade.


39 posted on 05/05/2006 6:30:17 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: God pays good
Like some difficult questions whose answers are the opposite of what at first seems like the logical solution, the correctness of capitalism has to be learned through experience or direct education. It is not instinctual.

I think this is an excellent point. I would add that capitalism leads to complexity while socialism is simple (though it creates complex problems). Isn't that ironic? A market economy is so complex that no single mind, no matter how bright, can fully comprehend it. A socialist economy, on the other hand, can be completely described with a block diagram. It takes a lifetime to really get the subtle reasons for why the amoral markets create so many material blessings for so many people. On the other hand, a college kid can have socialism fully mastered by the end of his sophomore year. Socialism is simple and therefore attractive.

40 posted on 05/05/2006 6:41:32 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: gondramB
As long as there poverty stricken countries where the people believe that they have no other way to get ahead -they will grasp at a revolutionary philosophy that promises pie in the sky.

I agree. However, you don't have to be a poverty stricken country to accept socialism. My Scandinavian and Israeli associates believe that socialism provides freedom. Since they don't have to worry about health care, unemployment checks (plenty of socialists are unemployed, but they get checks longer than we do), they are free to pursue life's higher callings rather than worry about providing for themselves. (don't you just love intellectuals?)

I don't understand why people don't want to be in control of their own lives.

41 posted on 05/05/2006 6:45:30 PM PDT by radiohead (Hey Kerry, I'm still here; still hating your lying, stinking guts, you coward.)
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To: radiohead
>>I agree. However, you don't have to be a poverty stricken country to accept socialism. My Scandinavian and Israeli associates believe that socialism provides freedom. Since they don't have to worry about health care, unemployment checks (plenty of socialists are unemployed, but they get checks longer than we do), they are free to pursue life's higher callings rather than worry about providing for themselves. (don't you just love intellectuals?)<<

You are correct. I have a certain level of sympathy for poor people with no political power getting fooled with pie in the sky promises... but when educated people with access to the history of socialism for for it... its really grating and pathetic.
42 posted on 05/05/2006 6:51:18 PM PDT by gondramB (He who angers you, in part, controls you. But he may not enjoy what the rest of you does about it.)
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To: TAdams8591

"I never understood why people thought communism was DEAD AND NO LONGER A THREAT when the most populated country in the world (China) along with North Korea and others still practiced it."

China no longer even PRETENDS to practice communism. Or do you call a country with a growing (dare I say it!) Capitalist economy, growing rates of personal income, and a stock market a communist country?

What the Chinese practice is a hybrid; capitalism is "good" so long as it is not followed by the (natural) progression between personal property and wealth and political rights.

In a nutshell, the Chinese looked north and saw what had happened to the Soviet Union and determined that was not going to hapopen in the Middle Kingdom. So, they gave people the illusion of freedom (go make all the money you want and can), while maintaining control of the apparatus of state (you might be rich, but we're still in charge. Now be a good little fellow and go back to your PlayStation, Whirlpool refrigerator and personal autombile and forget politics). However, they will pay the price when the population finally realizes that they need to protect that money from the very same State apparatus.

Personal wealth, private property and economic self-interest (and the need to protect them from the ravages of the State) are the precursors to a hue and cry for political freedom.


43 posted on 05/05/2006 7:01:51 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead?

Evil will never die.

44 posted on 05/05/2006 7:06:29 PM PDT by Chena (I'm not young enough to know everything.)
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To: Wombat101
Nice post.

I've seen similar assessments and don't agree. When the Berlin Wall, and the Iron Curtain fell, China was still a communist state. And it is still a communist state today. The so-called "capitalism" that exists within it's boundaries only serves to prop up the current regime, which is the reason it was permitted.

45 posted on 05/05/2006 9:54:26 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: Reily
"It particularly appeals to women because it promises such 'no risk' guaranteed security."

That's particularly true because of the existence of today's Welfare state. It was not so true throughout most of U.S. history.

46 posted on 05/05/2006 9:59:12 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: radiohead
"I agree. However, you don't have to be a poverty stricken country to accept socialism. My Scandinavian and Israeli associates believe that socialism provides freedom"

Very true. That same attitude is prevalent throught most of Europe and the Western World most of which has become largely socialized.

47 posted on 05/05/2006 10:02:31 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: TAdams8591
Which is exactly what I said; Chinese capitalism hides the very rotten core of the Chinese State -- totalitarianism. But it certainly is NOT Communist totalitarianism as we would like to imagine we understand it (i.e. on the Soviet model).

The ultimate purpose of Communism was the material improvement of the better part of society by means of the centralization of political power, distribution of wealth, and the planned economy. This is what China experienced in practice (if not results) under Mao and his immediate successors. And it failed utterly.

The expansion of the Chinese economy (and the general improvement of most people's lot in life) has very little to do with centralization or planned economies at all. It was begun, and will continue, only through the adaptation of capitalism and enlightened self-interest, both anathema to communism.

China has abandoned Communism in the name of Capitalism. It's political leadership, however, is suffering under the false assumption that capitalism can be implemented piecemeal or that once the forces of capitalism are unleashed, that they can be separated from the concept of political freedom. They deny the existence of human nature (as Mao once said "there is no such thing as human nature").

While China is most certainly not a democratic country, it certainly is not a communist one, either. It ceased being communist the day the first entrepreneur was allowed to engage in trade free of at least one governmental rule.
48 posted on 05/05/2006 10:33:07 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Wombat101
"China has abandoned Communism in the name of Capitalism"

The above is where we disagree. The current regime will permit only the amount of capitalism it requires to stay in power. China is still a communist state based on Maoism which is somewhat different from the the Soviet Union style communism, based on Leninism.

49 posted on 05/05/2006 10:43:47 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead?

Because way to many people(some freepers included) get off sexually on the control they have over other peoples lives under socialist policys check out the smoking threads on the pufflist keyword sometimes

50 posted on 05/05/2006 10:46:05 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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