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Why Isn't Socialism Dead?
TCS Daily ^ | May 5, 2006 | Lee Harris

Posted on 05/05/2006 9:51:03 AM PDT by Jane2005

Socialism may well spring back to life with a force shocking to those who have declared socialism to be no longer viable. Lee Harris on the challenge that capitalism faces today. Whether it will rise to the challenge is perhaps the most urgent question of our time.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: leeharris; socialism
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To: gondramB
As long as there poverty stricken countries where the people believe that they have no other way to get ahead -they will grasp at a revolutionary philosophy that promises pie in the sky.

I agree. However, you don't have to be a poverty stricken country to accept socialism. My Scandinavian and Israeli associates believe that socialism provides freedom. Since they don't have to worry about health care, unemployment checks (plenty of socialists are unemployed, but they get checks longer than we do), they are free to pursue life's higher callings rather than worry about providing for themselves. (don't you just love intellectuals?)

I don't understand why people don't want to be in control of their own lives.

41 posted on 05/05/2006 6:45:30 PM PDT by radiohead (Hey Kerry, I'm still here; still hating your lying, stinking guts, you coward.)
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To: radiohead
>>I agree. However, you don't have to be a poverty stricken country to accept socialism. My Scandinavian and Israeli associates believe that socialism provides freedom. Since they don't have to worry about health care, unemployment checks (plenty of socialists are unemployed, but they get checks longer than we do), they are free to pursue life's higher callings rather than worry about providing for themselves. (don't you just love intellectuals?)<<

You are correct. I have a certain level of sympathy for poor people with no political power getting fooled with pie in the sky promises... but when educated people with access to the history of socialism for for it... its really grating and pathetic.
42 posted on 05/05/2006 6:51:18 PM PDT by gondramB (He who angers you, in part, controls you. But he may not enjoy what the rest of you does about it.)
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To: TAdams8591

"I never understood why people thought communism was DEAD AND NO LONGER A THREAT when the most populated country in the world (China) along with North Korea and others still practiced it."

China no longer even PRETENDS to practice communism. Or do you call a country with a growing (dare I say it!) Capitalist economy, growing rates of personal income, and a stock market a communist country?

What the Chinese practice is a hybrid; capitalism is "good" so long as it is not followed by the (natural) progression between personal property and wealth and political rights.

In a nutshell, the Chinese looked north and saw what had happened to the Soviet Union and determined that was not going to hapopen in the Middle Kingdom. So, they gave people the illusion of freedom (go make all the money you want and can), while maintaining control of the apparatus of state (you might be rich, but we're still in charge. Now be a good little fellow and go back to your PlayStation, Whirlpool refrigerator and personal autombile and forget politics). However, they will pay the price when the population finally realizes that they need to protect that money from the very same State apparatus.

Personal wealth, private property and economic self-interest (and the need to protect them from the ravages of the State) are the precursors to a hue and cry for political freedom.


43 posted on 05/05/2006 7:01:51 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead?

Evil will never die.

44 posted on 05/05/2006 7:06:29 PM PDT by Chena (I'm not young enough to know everything.)
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To: Wombat101
Nice post.

I've seen similar assessments and don't agree. When the Berlin Wall, and the Iron Curtain fell, China was still a communist state. And it is still a communist state today. The so-called "capitalism" that exists within it's boundaries only serves to prop up the current regime, which is the reason it was permitted.

45 posted on 05/05/2006 9:54:26 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: Reily
"It particularly appeals to women because it promises such 'no risk' guaranteed security."

That's particularly true because of the existence of today's Welfare state. It was not so true throughout most of U.S. history.

46 posted on 05/05/2006 9:59:12 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: radiohead
"I agree. However, you don't have to be a poverty stricken country to accept socialism. My Scandinavian and Israeli associates believe that socialism provides freedom"

Very true. That same attitude is prevalent throught most of Europe and the Western World most of which has become largely socialized.

47 posted on 05/05/2006 10:02:31 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: TAdams8591
Which is exactly what I said; Chinese capitalism hides the very rotten core of the Chinese State -- totalitarianism. But it certainly is NOT Communist totalitarianism as we would like to imagine we understand it (i.e. on the Soviet model).

The ultimate purpose of Communism was the material improvement of the better part of society by means of the centralization of political power, distribution of wealth, and the planned economy. This is what China experienced in practice (if not results) under Mao and his immediate successors. And it failed utterly.

The expansion of the Chinese economy (and the general improvement of most people's lot in life) has very little to do with centralization or planned economies at all. It was begun, and will continue, only through the adaptation of capitalism and enlightened self-interest, both anathema to communism.

China has abandoned Communism in the name of Capitalism. It's political leadership, however, is suffering under the false assumption that capitalism can be implemented piecemeal or that once the forces of capitalism are unleashed, that they can be separated from the concept of political freedom. They deny the existence of human nature (as Mao once said "there is no such thing as human nature").

While China is most certainly not a democratic country, it certainly is not a communist one, either. It ceased being communist the day the first entrepreneur was allowed to engage in trade free of at least one governmental rule.
48 posted on 05/05/2006 10:33:07 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Wombat101
"China has abandoned Communism in the name of Capitalism"

The above is where we disagree. The current regime will permit only the amount of capitalism it requires to stay in power. China is still a communist state based on Maoism which is somewhat different from the the Soviet Union style communism, based on Leninism.

49 posted on 05/05/2006 10:43:47 PM PDT by TAdams8591
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To: Jane2005
Why Isn't Socialism Dead?

Because way to many people(some freepers included) get off sexually on the control they have over other peoples lives under socialist policys check out the smoking threads on the pufflist keyword sometimes

50 posted on 05/05/2006 10:46:05 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: SheLion; Gabz

maybe you would like to answer this question ?


51 posted on 05/05/2006 10:48:46 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: TAdams8591

Since when is it possible to practice communism in the shadow of capitalism? The two are completely incompatible with one another. There has never been, and never will be, a state in which rampant, market capitalism is practiced with government sanction, and in which communism is accepted as the preferred system of government.

What you have in China is something much closer to National Socialism than it is communism, where the private businessman is allowed to conduct (or stay in) business, and to even make as good a living as he possibly can, but the means by which he makes that living "belong" to the State. He is, in effect, a manager of a state-governed concern, even if he actually owns the concern itself.

So long as the state gets it's cut, no one seems to care.

Where it differs from national socialism and communism, however, is in the belief that an economy can be planned independant of external market forces.


52 posted on 05/05/2006 10:52:27 PM PDT by Wombat101 (Islam: Turning everything it touches to Shi'ite since 632 AD...)
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To: Jane2005

Socialism is nothing but a means to political power for people with serious character flaws, people most of us think of simply as "scumbags", "liberals" and "Democrats".

Regards,
LH


53 posted on 05/05/2006 11:01:34 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: traviskicks

ping


54 posted on 05/05/2006 11:02:56 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (Holding you head high & voting Libertarian is better then holding your nose and voting republican)
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To: Jane2005

... because there's always some free-loader looking for the easy way out of doing an honest days' work.


55 posted on 05/05/2006 11:14:47 PM PDT by Trajan88 (www.bullittclub.com)
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To: freepatriot32; Gabz
maybe you would like to answer this question?

Thanks, but I will let Gabz take a stab at this.

56 posted on 05/06/2006 2:42:30 AM PDT by SheLion (BEWARE: There are CINO'S among us!!!!)
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To: TAdams8591
Yes thats true !
BUT I believe that socialism does resonate emotionally with many people's own personal sense of insecurity. Again dodging brickbats, women a more prone to resonate with that false appeal. NOW not all women will be prone to this argument BUT also a significant percentage of men will like these women find socialism has the answer for personal security.
57 posted on 05/06/2006 10:15:40 AM PDT by Reily
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To: TAdams8591

I think it was based on false hope. Personally, I knew the 1990s were nothing but an aberation. As we were watching the CNN reports of the collapse of Soviet Communism, I remember saying to my wife, "Islam will become the next enemy." Not long after that I realized the Left would make common cause with Islamofacism based on Lenin's dictum "No enemies to the Left." Sure enough, they are joining forces in Europe, S. America, and other parts of the world. They are natural allies, since the religion of Islam has many ideological points in common with Socialism. Both Islam and Communism are naked despotisms.


58 posted on 05/06/2006 10:34:40 AM PDT by attiladhun2 (evolution has both deified and degraded humanity)
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To: Jane2005

It's very simple. Socialism appeals to the fantasy that you can get something for nothing...and furthermore, it provides a theoretical means of how it can be achieved, namely, organised theft from people that are the subject of envy anyway.

Regards, Ivan


59 posted on 05/06/2006 10:36:18 AM PDT by MadIvan (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Jane2005

Because there is always a certain number in the population that want something for nothing. They believe that Socialism provides them 3 hots and a cot, and they don't have to do much to get it. They are empty shells that find freedom and capitalism just to darn hard work. In Short they are the lazist of the lazy.


60 posted on 05/06/2006 10:37:41 AM PDT by marty60
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