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Officials disclaim Bulletin 'tipping' report (Sara Carter's follow-up report)
Daily Bulletin ^ | 5/10/2006 | Sara A. Carter

Posted on 05/10/2006 1:48:26 AM PDT by M. Thatcher

U.S. Customs and Border Protection is refuting a Daily Bulletin report that the U.S. Border Patrol provided information to the Mexican government about the whereabouts of civilian border watch groups.

Read the disputed article: U.S. tipping Mexico to Minuteman patrols

See the Mexican Government Web page: www.sre.gob.mx/eventos/minuteman/reporte3

"Today's report by the Inland Valley Daily Bulletin, `U.S. tipping Mexico to Minuteman patrols,' is inaccurate," read the statement issued Tuesday evening. "Border Patrol does not report activity by civilian, non-law enforcement groups to the government of Mexico."

Kristi Clemens, a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security and Customs and Border Protection, would not elaborate on the agency's statement other than to say the U.S. gives information to Mexican officials under the rules of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, which provides foreign nationals being detained by a government the right to consular access.

"This is the same agreement that protects United States citizens when they travel to foreign countries," according to the statement.

An August 2005 document, "Third Report on the Activities of Vigilantes" -- posted on Mexico's Secretary of Foreign Relations Web site -- suggests U.S. officials were giving out more details than required by the Vienna Convention. Part of that information was the location of U.S. citizens participating in volunteer border patrols.

The Daily Bulletin reported on the contents of that document and two others on the Mexican Web site in a story published in Tuesday's editions.

Mexican consulates also went beyond the boundaries of the Vienna Convention, asking U.S. Border Patrol officials to provide them with information on "vigilantes" operating along the U.S. border, according to the August 2005 document.

Some of the information cited in the Mexican document originally was given only to U.S. Border Patrol and law enforcement officials, border watch organizers said.

"Nobody but law enforcement and Border Patrol knew where we were at," said Andy Ramirez, chairman of the Chino-based nonprofit group Friends of the Border Patrol. "So how is our base address on a Mexican government document dated last August? Nobody, not even media, had this information."

Ramirez said he revealed the location of his base camp only to local and federal officials. The Mexican document gives the exact location of his group's site, which was on private property near San Diego.

According to Ramirez, the group had no encounters at that site with undocumented migrants, which would have been the only cause for that information to be revealed under the Vienna Convention.

On Monday, Mario Martinez, a U.S. Customs and Border spokesman, told the Daily Bulletin that when illegal immigrants are apprehended in the U.S., they have the right, under the Convention, to be represented by their country's consulate office and to information regarding their apprehension.

Information contained in a Border Patrol agent's field report, which is filed when a person is caught, would reveal the location of the detainee and therefore the area where the volunteer group is operating, Martinez said.

Martinez did not deny that information on the border volunteers was being shared with the Mexican government. He added that the group's whereabouts also were identified by numerous media outlets.

However, the Mexican report also contains specific information on civilian groups operating much farther inside the United States.

For example, the document notes that 50 Minuteman volunteers work in Chicago, focusing mainly on employers who hire illegal immigrants.

Minuteman volunteers said specific information -- such as the number of volunteers and their plans -- could have been provided only by law enforcement officials at that time. The document credits the various Mexican consul general offices in the U.S. with providing the information to the Mexican Foreign Secretary for the reports.

"How did they know the number of volunteers in Chicago? And why should the Mexican government care?" asked Connie Hair, spokeswoman for the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps in Washington, D.C.

The three reports on the Mexican Web site documented the activities of the civilian groups based on concerns the Mexican government had about volunteer patrols on the border in 2005, said Rafael Laveaga, spokesman for the Mexican Embassy in Washington, D.C.

"The Border Patrol does not report activity of the Minutemen to the Mexican consulate," Laveaga said. "But it's all a matter of perception. If a migrant requests to have counsel, which is their right under the Vienna Convention, then the information is provided to the counsel."

Throughout the Mexican government's reports on "vigilantes," it is noted that Mexican consulates in the U.S. contacted Border Patrol officials seeking U.S. cooperation in reporting instances of civilians monitoring the border. Among such requests:

The Mexican consul in Presidio, Texas, asked the Marfa Sector's Border Patrol chief to alert them if the U.S. detected any volunteer activity.

In Phoenix, consulate officials asked the Border Patrol to notify them if civilian groups apprehended any undocumented migrants so consulate representatives could interview them.

In San Diego, the document referred to a meeting with Border Patrol Chief Darryl Griffen stating that "Mr. Griffen reiterated to the undersecretary his promise to notify the General Consul right away when the vigilantes detain or participate in the detention of any undocumented migrant."

"It appears the border reports are the tip of the iceberg," said Chris Simcox, founder of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, which began patrolling the border last April.

Such requests from Mexico, and U.S. officials acquiescing to them, are not new, say Border Patrol agents.

Scott James, a former Tucson agent, resigned after eight years of service in February, citing a lack of support for agents by the Department of Homeland Security.

He said that U.S. Border Patrol officials provided office space inside their headquarters to Mexican consulate officials, allowed the consulate to dictate the agents' activities, and gave the consulate information on ongoing investigations.

Such courtesies were not extended to consulate offices of other countries, James said.

Sara A. Carter can be reached by e-mail at sara.carteror by phone at (909) 483-8552.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aliens; border; borderpatrol; illegals; influencepeddling; minutemanproject; minutemen; usbp; vigilantes
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1 posted on 05/10/2006 1:48:29 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: M. Thatcher

There seems to be a charge and denial.

Can't wait to see which is confirmed.


2 posted on 05/10/2006 1:52:02 AM PDT by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: M. Thatcher

Isn't this the same story you just posted?


3 posted on 05/10/2006 1:52:40 AM PDT by CWOJackson
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To: CWOJackson

Yes, just wanted to clarify this was a follow-up, with much new material, to the much-discussed earlier article.


4 posted on 05/10/2006 3:20:38 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: M. Thatcher
THE LATEST FROM THE DAILY PAPER EL ECONOMISTA in MEXICO about serious, alleged US Border Control cooperation with the Mexican Government to expose operational details and locations of The Minutemen on the southern border:

09/05/2006 09:40 "EU avisa a México sobre ubicación de los Minutemen La Patrulla Fronteriza está informando al gobierno mexicano sobre la posición de las milicias civiles que vigilan la frontera para detener o atacar a inmigrantes ilegales, según un informe oficial. AP Notas relacionadas No hay notas relacionadas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Los Angeles.- La Patrulla Fronteriza de Estados Unidos está informando al gobierno mexicano sobre la posición de las milicias civiles que vigilan la frontera para detener o atacar a inmigrantes ilegales, según un informe oficial. El vocero del servicio de aduanas y protección de fronteras, Mario Martínez, declaró al Inland Valley Daily Bulletin de Ontario que el objetivo del alerta es asegurar al gobierno mexicano que se respetan los derechos de los inmigrantes. El alerta afecta al Cuerpo de Defensa Civil Minuteman y a los Amigos de la Patrulla Fronteriza, entre otros grupos civiles. “No es ningún secreto dónde estarán los voluntarios Minuteman”, dijo Martínez el lunes. “Con esto queremos afirmar dos cosas fundamentales: que no toleraremos la anarquía de ningún tipo y que si un extranjero es enfrentado o detenido por un Minuteman, permitiremos que su gobierno entreviste a esa persona”. Miembros del Minuteman – que toman su nombre de una milicia campesina de la época colonial – dijeron que la política de la Patrulla Fronteriza les resta eficacia y podría poner en peligro sus vidas. “Ahora comprendemos por qué las autoridades mexicanas siempre saben dónde estamos”, dijo Chris Simcox, fundador de la organización. “Es inconcebible que una agencia de nuestro propio gobierno envíe información a otro país. Envían información a una nación caracterizada por la corrupción rampante, que podría llegar a los carteles criminales”. El Daily Bulletin dijo que no pudo comunicarse con autoridades del consulado mexicano en Washington el lunes. TJ Bonner, presidente del sindicato de agentes de la Patrulla Fronteriza, dijo que éstos se quejan desde hace mucho de la influencia indebida que ejerce el gobierno mexicano sobre la política coercitiva de Estados Unidos. “Esa no es una función legítima para una nación extranjera, cualquiera que sea”, dijo Bonner."

5 posted on 05/10/2006 3:35:17 AM PDT by AmericanInTokyo (Declare the land all along our border w/Mexico as 'British territory'. THEN we'd finally protect it!)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

care to translate?


6 posted on 05/10/2006 3:36:50 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: M. Thatcher
However, the Mexican report also contains specific information on civilian groups operating much farther inside the United States.

For example, the document notes that 50 Minuteman volunteers work in Chicago, focusing mainly on employers who hire illegal immigrants.

!

(This assumes of course that the Minutemen themselves are not providing this information via PR or website information.)

7 posted on 05/10/2006 3:38:42 AM PDT by Heatseeker (Never underestimate the left's tendency to underestimate us.)
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To: M. Thatcher

You should be learning Spanish. </sarc>


8 posted on 05/10/2006 3:41:19 AM PDT by Paladin2 (If the political indictment's from Fitz, the jury always acquits.)
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To: Paladin2
You should be learning Spanish.

Unless FR is in Spanish, that's not happening.

9 posted on 05/10/2006 3:51:12 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: AmericanInTokyo
Partial translation (work is calling):

"US advises Mexico about location of the Minutemen.

"The Border Patrol is informing the mexican government about the position of the civilian militia which guards the border to detain or attack illegal immigrants, according to an official informant, AP News reports...The spokesman of the Customs and Immigration Service, Mario Martinez, declared to the Inland Valley Billetin of Ontario that the objective of the alert is to assure the mexican government that the rights of the immigrants are respected..."

10 posted on 05/10/2006 5:14:41 AM PDT by yatros from flatwater
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To: M. Thatcher
I am late to this thread and haven't much time but here's a few more bits translated:

It is no secret where the Minutemen are, said Martinez on Monday. With this we wish to confirm two fundamental things: that we won't tolerate anarachy of any kind and that if a foreigner is confronted or detained by a Minuteman we will permit that his government interview him.

Then, a quote from Chris Simcox, founder of the MM

"Now we know that the Mexican government knows where we are --- it's inconceivable that an agency of our own government is sending information to another country. Sending information to a nation characterized by rampant corruption that could get to criminal cartels."
11 posted on 05/10/2006 5:39:10 AM PDT by squarebarb
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To: M. Thatcher; Jim Robinson

Somebody played Free Republic like a cheap violin. And our single-issue knee-jerkers did EXACTLY what the guy who planted this story wanted.


12 posted on 05/10/2006 5:42:01 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
I tend to take all stories with a grain of salt until they have been fully researched. That's the trouble with instant info, sometimes it's misinfo.
13 posted on 05/10/2006 5:51:23 AM PDT by wolfcreek
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Somebody played Free Republic like a cheap violin. And our single-issue knee-jerkers did EXACTLY what the guy who planted this story wanted.

Oh, wow, you mean people heatedly discussed a news report, and they had opposing views?

It's a conspiracy, I tell ya.

14 posted on 05/10/2006 6:02:05 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Somebody played Free Republic like a cheap violin.

Yeah, right.

15 posted on 05/10/2006 6:53:42 AM PDT by dirtboy (An illegal immigrant says my tagline used to be part of Mexico)
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To: M. Thatcher

ROTFL...


16 posted on 05/10/2006 7:04:51 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (I believe that all government is evil, and that trying to improve it is largely a waste of time.)
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To: M. Thatcher

Thanks for posting and I expect more will be forthcoming the enxt few days, and obviously in the current climate as our Southern border continues to leak and Congre$$ fiddles.. it may be awhile before this latest brouhaha is put to rest to everyone's aatisfaction, if then. ;-)


17 posted on 05/10/2006 8:46:47 AM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi)
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To: M. Thatcher
Oh, wow, you mean people heatedly discussed a news report, and they had opposing views?

No, I mean someone got a bunch of people to post over-the-top things such as about how this guy doesn't agree with Timothy McVeigh BUT...

(When someone says "but," it means "please ignore what I just said.")

18 posted on 05/10/2006 8:48:16 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: wolfcreek
I tend to take all stories with a grain of salt until they have been fully researched. That's the trouble with instant info, sometimes it's misinfo.

Churchill once said that a lie is halfway around the world before the truth finishes putting its boots on.

We've just demonstrated that he was absolutely right.

19 posted on 05/10/2006 8:50:06 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: M. Thatcher; BeHoldAPaleHorse
Oh, wow, you mean people heatedly discussed a news report, and they had opposing views?

There was no "discussion." It was more like a mass mouth-foaming. The 'single-issue knee-jerkers' jumped on this like flies on poop. As usual.

20 posted on 05/10/2006 8:59:57 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: r9etb
There was no "discussion." It was more like a mass mouth-foaming.

Yup, the Internet version of Orwell's Two Minutes' Hate.

21 posted on 05/10/2006 9:28:21 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: r9etb; BeHoldAPaleHorse

What is truly amazing is that the very people who claim to despise Mexico are now quoting heavily from a Mexican web site and taking it as absolute fact.


22 posted on 05/10/2006 9:41:28 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: Howlin

Show me one case of anyone saying they despise Mexico.


23 posted on 05/10/2006 10:05:10 AM PDT by NapkinUser (http://www.vasquezforidaho.org/)
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To: NapkinUser
Show me one case of anyone saying they despise Mexico.

Oh, please; it's on every immigration thread for all the world to see; anybody denying it is throwing in a strawman.

24 posted on 05/10/2006 10:13:25 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: M. Thatcher

Well as far as I am concerned the Border Patrol's refutation was pretty weak. Calling the report "inaccurate" is not the same at least in my mind as labeling completely false, which is what they should do if it is in fact a fabrication. Futhermore, when I read:

"Kristi Clemens, a spokeswoman for the Department of Homeland Security and Customs and Border Protection, would not elaborate on the agency's statement other than to say the U.S. gives information to Mexican officials under the rules of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations of 1963, which provides foreign nationals being detained by a government the right to consular access. "

If the minuteman claim that exact information regarding the number of volunteers and a base of operations was provided to no one outside of law enforcement, and that information appears on a Mexican Government run website, then it's hardly a stretch to believe that some agency provided said information.

It still sounds to me like, in fact, information is being shared if not by the Border Patrol then by another agency.


25 posted on 05/10/2006 10:36:37 AM PDT by Smogger
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To: M. Thatcher
Yesterday the SavageWeiners complained that their flat-out denial was so short and specific that it couldn't be believed.

Today they'll be saying "Look at how long-winded they are, why not just a flat denial, no ifs, ands or buts?"

26 posted on 05/10/2006 10:42:02 AM PDT by Darkwolf377 ("I only respond to posts with reasoned opinions and facts, ignore irrational ones")
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
The open border folks as well as the koolaiders are blowing smoke. their name calling is just that . this story is not over.
27 posted on 05/10/2006 10:42:40 AM PDT by fantom
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To: Smogger

The Minutemen are on TV almost every night...they are in the desert Southwest...and they aren't hiding...

So, why is it any surprise to anyone that the Mexican Government would know where they are??

The US Govt doesn't have to tell them...and they don't.


28 posted on 05/10/2006 10:43:45 AM PDT by Txsleuth
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To: Smogger
It still sounds to me like, in fact, information is being shared if not by the Border Patrol then by another agency.

Yes, another agency is spying on the Minutemen, giving hourly reports to Mexican Illegal Command Central who can then give the coyotes real-time direction.

Oddly enough, even though the Minutemen are on the lookout, they've never spotted these mysterious agents.

If you want to believe something badly enough, you'll figure out a way to do it.

29 posted on 05/10/2006 10:46:35 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: AmericanInTokyo

we should cede all the border land of california, arizona, texas, and new mexico to iraq and within two weeks bush would send at least 50,000 troops there.


30 posted on 05/10/2006 10:47:19 AM PDT by kingattax
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

bttt


31 posted on 05/10/2006 10:50:48 AM PDT by Mo1 (DEMOCRATS: A CULTURE OF TREASON)
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To: Howlin

A Mexican government Web site FROM A YEAR AGO!


32 posted on 05/10/2006 10:52:10 AM PDT by clawrence3
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To: Howlin
What is truly amazing is that the very people who claim to despise Mexico

Do you despise the Mexican government?

33 posted on 05/10/2006 10:52:41 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: Txsleuth
The Minutemen are on TV almost every night...they are in the desert Southwest...and they aren't hiding...

That's funny, because I live in California a state flooded with illegal immigrants, read Freerepublic, a site obsessed with illegal immigration, and the Daily Bulletin is my local paper, and I still haven't a clue exactly whose property the Minutemen are oprerating on, where, and how many members are are involved. It seems like they take some pains for whatever reason to keep those details to themselves.

34 posted on 05/10/2006 10:53:22 AM PDT by Smogger
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To: NapkinUser
Show me one case of anyone saying they despise Mexico.

I despise the Mexican government. I suppose that could mean that I despise Mexico. It's like China. I hate their government but not their people.

35 posted on 05/10/2006 10:53:37 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: NapkinUser
Show me one case of anyone saying they despise Mexico.

your funny

36 posted on 05/10/2006 10:53:37 AM PDT by Mo1 (DEMOCRATS: A CULTURE OF TREASON)
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To: jmc813

I don't CARE about the Mexican government, but I sure as hell wouldn't EVER quote one word they said as fact.


37 posted on 05/10/2006 10:54:41 AM PDT by Howlin
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To: Dog Gone

I have read reports and heard interviews about the ACLU shadowing the Minutemen watching for "civil rights violations". I'll do some checking and post links I find. This whole thing reeks of set-up.


38 posted on 05/10/2006 10:54:50 AM PDT by Chickenhawk Warmonger (Patrick K has Ambienesia!)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse
Kinda like the different stories that come out everyday about the Duke rape case? That story changes more times than the Oklahoma weather, but the stories are still discussed, whether true or not.

That is just the way FR works and why most people are here, to discuss things.

39 posted on 05/10/2006 10:55:34 AM PDT by yellowdoghunter (I sometimes only vote for Republicans because they are not Democrats....by Dr. Thomas Sowell)
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To: M. Thatcher
Ramirez said he revealed the location of his base camp only to local and federal officials. The Mexican document gives the exact location of his group's site, which was on private property near San Diego

And I guess Mr. Ramirez doesn't know of something called binoculars, that or Mr. Ramirez and the minutemen thought the cloaking device they bought from the Romulans actually workd.

40 posted on 05/10/2006 10:56:06 AM PDT by Dane ("Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall" Ronald Reagan, 1987)
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To: r9etb
There was no "discussion." It was more like a mass mouth-foaming. The 'single-issue knee-jerkers' jumped on this like flies on poop.

I read the threads. People on both sides gave as good as they got. Your loving comment is a case in point.

41 posted on 05/10/2006 10:56:19 AM PDT by M. Thatcher
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To: Howlin
I don't CARE about the Mexican government

You really should. They are corrupted, racist and dirty as heck. So bad that there's a good chance they could go socialist/communist in the near future. To have a government like that right next to us could be a major concern.

42 posted on 05/10/2006 10:58:56 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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To: jmc813
To have a government like that right next to us could be a major concern.

And an unintended consequence of completely shutting off the flow of workers from there to here might well be to start the requisite revolution.

As it stands now, we're a safety valve for those Mexicans who happen to have the gumption to do something to better their conditions. You can be sure that Vincente Fox knows that....

There's a lot more to this debate than the "build a wall" types are willing to admit.

43 posted on 05/10/2006 11:03:33 AM PDT by r9etb
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To: M. Thatcher

bump for publicity


44 posted on 05/10/2006 11:04:49 AM PDT by VOA
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To: yellowdoghunter
Kinda like the different stories that come out everyday about the Duke rape case?

No, more like the different stories that came every day from the Schindler family re: Terri Schiavo.

45 posted on 05/10/2006 11:07:42 AM PDT by BeHoldAPaleHorse ( ~()):~)>)
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To: Chickenhawk Warmonger
I have read reports and heard interviews about the ACLU shadowing the Minutemen watching for "civil rights violations". I'll do some checking and post links I find. This whole thing reeks of set-up.

I've heard those reports too. ACLU/leftist types may be passing the MM locations on to the Mexican consuls in LA and elsewhere who in turn pass it to their bosses in Mexico. The USBP has deniability but their upper echelons are probably not unhappy with whoever is passing the info to the Mexicans.

46 posted on 05/10/2006 11:08:43 AM PDT by CedarDave (Gen. McCaffrey: "There is a rapidly growing animosity" among U.S. troops in Iraq toward the press...)
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To: A CA Guy
There seems to be a charge and denial. Can't wait to see which is confirmed.

Me, too ... I'm not sure why immediately believing the charge is "knee-jerk" but immediately believing the denial is not.

47 posted on 05/10/2006 11:18:03 AM PDT by Oliver Optic
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To: M. Thatcher

In other words, the Border Patrol does not report directly to the Mexican government, but another department of the U.S. government DOES.


48 posted on 05/10/2006 11:18:59 AM PDT by Cinnamon Girl (OMGIIHIHOIIC ping list)
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To: AmericanInTokyo

Could you post that in Japanese?

:>)


49 posted on 05/10/2006 11:20:12 AM PDT by Syncro
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To: r9etb
There's a lot more to this debate than the "build a wall" types are willing to admit.

I disagree. I think the "build a wall" crowd is the only one looking at the big picture. Yes, we can have a guest worker program that benefits both us and the immigrants, but unless we have a sealed border, it won't work. The border must be secured first.

50 posted on 05/10/2006 11:21:21 AM PDT by jmc813 (The best mathematical equation I have ever seen: 1 cross + 3 nails= 4 given.)
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