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Wyoming sues feds over gun rights
The Casper [WY] Star-Tribune ^ | May 10, 2006 | TOM MORTON

Posted on 05/11/2006 10:42:47 AM PDT by archy

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To: tpaine

Until the Supreme Court overturns it it is still the law of the land. I doubt it has even been challenged until now. But even now its constitutionality is not being challenged merely technicalities wrt its implimentation.

I do agree it is an unnecessary infringement and, if the current court doesn't throw it out, the next with more Bush appointments might.


51 posted on 05/15/2006 2:16:58 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
The US Constitution is clear in that no level of government can infringe on our right to bear arms. -- A fiat prohibition on a persons RKBA's for "a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" is clearly an unreasonable regulation regardless if written by fed, state or local 'lawmakers'..

Until the Supreme Court overturns it it is still the law of the land.

Not true. "-- 'Laws' repugnant to the Constitution are null and void. --" Justice Marshall, 1803.

I doubt it has even been challenged until now.

Sad comment on how the gun grabbing position is accepted. [Actually, the USSC refuses to hear any challenges]

But even now its constitutionality is not being challenged merely technicalities wrt its implimentation.

Bull, - your seeing it as a merely "technical" infringement is typical of the 'reasoning' why it hasn't been challenged.

I do agree it is an unnecessary infringement and, if the current court doesn't throw it out, the next with more Bush appointments might.

Hell of an endorsement, - our USSC "might" see it as an infringement.
-- It's easy to see why our Constitution is being ignored.

52 posted on 05/15/2006 3:26:01 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

It is the Supreme Court which decides what laws are "null and void" not tpaine or justshutupandtakeit.

What gives you the impression that I had anything to do with the State challenging over technicalities? I did not file this suit.

It is our Constitution which set up the Supreme Court to have jurisdiction over "all Cases, in law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States,...."

There is no other authority which can declare a law to be unconstitutional. Not even tpaine.


53 posted on 05/16/2006 7:13:07 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
The US Constitution is clear in that no level of government can infringe on our right to bear arms. -- A fiat prohibition on a persons RKBA's for "a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence" is clearly an unreasonable regulation regardless if written by fed, state or local 'lawmakers'..

Until the Supreme Court overturns it it is still the law of the land.

Not true. "-- 'Laws' repugnant to the Constitution are null and void. --" Justice Marshall, 1803.

It is the Supreme Court which decides what laws are "null and void" not tpaine or justshutupandtakeit. It is our Constitution which set up the Supreme Court to have jurisdiction over "all Cases, in law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States,...."
There is no other authority which can declare a law to be unconstitutional.

Wrong. Every official in the USA is sworn to support & defend against Constitutional infringements, -- just as citizens have that same duty.

I doubt it has even been challenged until now.

Sad comment on how the gun grabbing position is accepted. [Actually, the USSC refuses to hear any challenges]

But even now its constitutionality is not being challenged merely technicalities wrt its implimentation.

Bull, - your seeing it as a merely "technical" infringement is typical of the 'reasoning' why it hasn't been challenged.

What gives you the impression that I had anything to do with the State challenging over technicalities? I did not file this suit.

Your position is typical of those who equivocate on these issues, allowing the Court to rationalize its refusal to act.

I do agree it is an unnecessary infringement and, if the current court doesn't throw it out, the next with more Bush appointments might.

Hell of an endorsement, - our USSC "might" see it as an infringement. -- It's easy to see why our Constitution is being ignored.

54 posted on 05/16/2006 7:36:31 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

Officials do not get to decide for themselves which laws are constitutional or not. They may petition the Court to declare them so. George Wallace had no authority to argue that integrating the University is "unconstitutional". These quaint ideas are no longer respectible. The idea that the officials could "defend" the constitution from the legislature is just as laughable. That was never the Founders intention since they divided power among the Executive, legislative and judicial.

But in addition to all that there is no oath "to defend against constitutional infringements" rather it is to "support this constitution". It is the Supreme Court which has final say on WHAT that constitution is.

Your statement of my "position" is only that. It has no bearing on what my "position" is.


55 posted on 05/16/2006 8:09:04 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
justshutupandtakeit wrote:

Officials do not get to decide for themselves which laws are constitutional or not.

They are bound to support the supreme 'Law of the Land'. -- Laws repugnant to the supreme law are null & void, and not to be supported [or enforced].

They may petition the Court to declare them so. [and, they may refuse to support them while awaiting that declaration]
George Wallace had no authority to argue that integrating the University is "unconstitutional". These quaint ideas are no longer respectible.

Quaint point.. Wallace had every authority possible. He was sworn to preserve, protect & defend the Constitution of the USA, as well as of his State.

The idea that the officials could "defend" the constitution from the legislature is just as laughable. That was never the Founders intention since they divided power among the Executive, legislative and judicial.

The laughs on you. The division of powers was intended to foster 'checks & balances' on those very powers. You have some very quaint authoritarian ideas.

But in addition to all that there is no oath "to defend against constitutional infringements" rather it is to "support this constitution".

"-- preserve, protect an defend --" is in the Presidential oath. -- Quibble about that.

It is the Supreme Court which has final say on WHAT that constitution is.

Belied by the repeal of prohibition. The people prevailed, the Courts opinion was rejected.

56 posted on 05/16/2006 3:48:41 PM PDT by tpaine
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To: tpaine

The Constitution in question is the one defined by the Court not State officials or federal officials or the local dogcatcher.

They have no capacity for judgment on what the Constitution says but must follow the Court's judgment as the Founders stipulated.

The rest of your post is more confusion and mistake.

The checks and balances established were not that state authorities had any say over decisions over constitutionality outside the right to take a law before the Court for a ruling. The checks by the states took other forms not by unilateral decisions on which laws to obey. Anarchy would be the result. Jefferson's theories were completely whacky.


57 posted on 05/16/2006 8:32:51 PM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
The Constitution in question is the one defined by the Court not State officials or federal officials or the local dogcatcher. They have no capacity for judgment on what the Constitution says but must follow the Court's judgment as the Founders stipulated.

Where is it 'stipulated' that SCOTUS opinions 'must be followed'?
You made that one up. - Remember Dred Scott?

The checks and balances established were not that state authorities had any say over decisions over constitutionality outside the right to take a law before the Court for a ruling.

State officials are pledged to support only Constitutional law. -- They are not obligated to enforce 'laws' that are repugnant to constitutional principles. -- As you say, they put it before the courts, -- and can ignore it while waiting resolution.

The checks by the states took other forms not by unilateral decisions on which laws to obey. Anarchy would be the result. Jefferson's theories were completely whacky.

Sure, Jefferson was wacky, not you.. Dream on.

58 posted on 05/17/2006 9:23:32 AM PDT by tpaine
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To: archy

I used to live in Wyoming.

Other than Alaska, probably the most self-sufficient people in the U.S. Not counting Native Americans, of course.


59 posted on 05/17/2006 9:26:01 AM PDT by Supernatural (Its not dark yet, but its getting there.)
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To: tpaine
The Court determines what the Law of the Land means. There in no way it can enforce its decisions if the Executive branch won't do it but that doesn't change what is the Law of the Land.

Dred Scott was the Law of the Land like it or not.

You keep pretending that state/fed officials have some mystical source to determine what is constitutional and what is not and have some authority to contravene Court rulings. They don't. Nor can they ignore the questioned law unless a court has stayed its operation which is often the case but not always.

Jefferson's Constitutional beliefs essentially denied that there was a Constitution. He was an excellent rhetoritician and a master manipulator. But as a political thinker he could not fill his great rival, Hamilton, inkwell. He did not even believe that the purchase of Louisiana was constitutional and Madison finally had to tell him tojustshutupandtakeit rather than pursue the folly of amending the constitution to satisfy this quibble. He was an excellent cabinet maker but was the most overrated President we have ever had.
60 posted on 05/17/2006 9:49:19 AM PDT by justshutupandtakeit (If you believe ANYTHING in the Treason Media you are a fool.)
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To: proud_yank

61 posted on 05/17/2006 10:42:27 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: tertiary01

The happiness of a half-cooked frog...


62 posted on 05/17/2006 10:45:26 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: tpaine
State officials are pledged to support only Constitutional law.

Not in most states.

63 posted on 05/17/2006 12:31:57 PM PDT by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
It is the Supreme Court which decides what laws are "null and void" not tpaine or justshutupandtakeit.

Not quite.

All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void.

--Marbury vs. Madison, 5 US (2 Cranch) 137, 174, 176, (1803)

64 posted on 05/17/2006 12:35:12 PM PDT by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: tpaine
Every official in the USA is sworn to support & defend against Constitutional infringements, -- just as citizens have that same duty

The oaths vary from state to state and federal agency to agency, and have indeed also been changed over the years. The oath for US Marshals now no longer requires support and the defense of the U.S. Constitution, but obedience to the federal judiciary instead.

And there's also a loophole for those in the executive departments of most states. You post your state's relative oath for public officials, and I'll show you how they can legally parse and violate it with impunity- as many do.

65 posted on 05/17/2006 12:39:03 PM PDT by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: justshutupandtakeit
Huh? There are no federal officers charged with crimes to be expunged.

Think back to neighboring Idaho, and what happened to the murder charges against FBI womankiller Lon Horiuchi. But since no trial took place, charges for either the murder or for the deprivation of the victim's civil rights can still take place. And as we've seen of late, such charges can be brought even thirty or forty years after the fact.

Too, you'd do well to check out the following FReeppost. Should NooYawk politicians try to infringe upon the rights of Wyomingites, I don't think they'll be at all happy about the results.

66 posted on 05/17/2006 2:47:13 PM PDT by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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To: archy
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

Who brought the chips?

67 posted on 05/17/2006 2:51:23 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (The social contract is breaking down.)
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To: archy

I need to move someplace more conservative. This looks promising.


68 posted on 05/17/2006 2:54:27 PM PDT by Libertina
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To: Libertina
I need to move someplace more conservative. This looks promising.

Info for you *here.*

Webforum *here*.

69 posted on 05/17/2006 3:47:59 PM PDT by archy (I am General Tso. This is my Chief of Staff, Colonel Sanders....)
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